Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees
Wednesday, 1 March 2023
Joint Committee on the Irish Language, the Gaeltacht and the Irish Speaking Community
Páipéar T2 Ghaeilge na Sraithe Sóisearaí: Coimisiún na Scrúduithe Stáit
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Cuirfimid tús leis an gcruinniú. Ar líne, tá an Teachta Aindrias ó Muineacháin. Tá na Seanadóirí Kyne, Ward agus Clifford-Lee ann freisin, mar aon leis an Teachta Connolly agus liom féin. Leanfaidh an cruinniú seo ar aghaidh go dtí 4 p.m., más gá, mar tá cruinniú ag an roghchoiste ar 4 p.m., ach tá súil agam nach leanfaidh sé chomh fada sin. Níl aon leithscéal faighte againn. Is mian liom fáilte a fhearadh roimh chomhaltaí an chomhchoiste agus roimh aon chomhalta eile a bheidh ag freastal ar an gcruinniú seo freisin, roimh ár bhfinnéithe a bheidh ag labhairt os ár gcomhair inniu, agus, dár ndóigh, roimh ár lucht féachana anseo i seomra coiste 4 agus ar Theilifís an Oireachtais.
Cuirim fáilte roimh an bpríomhoifigeach feidhmeannach, Andrea Feeney, agus ceann na rannóige scrúduithe agus measúnaithe, Elaine Sheridan, mar ionadaithe thar ceann Choimisiún na Scrúduithe Stáit. Is mian liom a chur ar an taifead go bhfuil na finnéithe go léir ag freastal ar an gcruinniú seo ó sheomra coiste 4, laistigh de pharlúin Thithe an Oireachtais.
Sula leanaimid ar aghaidh lenár mbreithniú ar an ábhar maidir le páipéar T2 Ghaeilge na sraithe sóisearaí i mbliana agus amach anseo, tá dualgas orm na rialacha agus na treoracha seo a leanas a leagan faoi bhráid na finnéithe agus na comhaltaí atá ag freastal ar an gcruinniú.
Meabhraím do chomhaltaí, d'fhinnéithe agus do bhaill foirne a chinntiú go bhfuil a gcuid gutháin shoghluaiste múchta le linn an chruinnithe mar gur féidir leis na gléasanna seo cur as do chóras craolacháin, eagarthóireachta agus fuaime Thithe an Oireachtais. Tá an rogha ag comhaltaí freastal ar an gcruinniú seo go fisiciúil sa seomra coiste nó go fíorúil ar Microsoft Teams, ar an gcoinníoll i gcás cruinnithe poiblí gur óna n-oifigí i dTithe an Oireachtais a dhéantar sin. Is riachtanas bunreachtúil é sin. Nuair atá aon duine ag freastal óna n-oifigí, ba chóir dóibh a ngléas físeáin a bheith ar siúl an t-am go léir le go mbeidh siad le feiceáil ar an scáileán. Baineann an coinníoll seo le finnéithe freisin agus iad ag freastal ar an gcruinniú go fíorúil. Ní mór a chinntiú de go bhfuil na micreafóin múchta nuair nach bhfuil siad ag caint.
Cuirim ina luí ar na finnéithe go bhfuil siad, de bhua Bunreacht na hÉireann agus reachtaíocht araon, faoi chosaint ag lánphribhléid maidir leis an bhfianaise a thugann siad don chomhchoiste chomh fada is atá siad lonnaithe laistigh de phurláin Thithe an Oireachtais agus an fhianaise sin á tabhairt acu. Molaim d’fhinnéithe a bheith cúramach agus fianaise á tabhairt acu. Má ordaíonn an comhchoiste dóibh éirí as fianaise a thabhairt i leith ní áirithe, ba chóir go ndéantar amhlaidh láithreach. Ordaítear dóibh gan aon fhianaise a thabhairt nach fianaise í a bhaineann le hábhar na n-imeachtaí atá á bplé ag an gcomhchoiste. Ba chóir dóibh a bheith ar an eolas go ndéanfar na ráitis tosaigh a chuir siad faoi bhráid an choiste a fhoilsiú ar shuíomh gréasáin an choiste tar éis an chruinnithe seo.
Fiafraítear d’fhinnéithe agus de chomhaltaí araon cleachtadh parlaiminte a urramú nár chóir, más féidir, daoine nó eintiteas a cháineadh ná líomhaintí a dhéanamh ina n-aghaidh ná tuairimí a thabhairt maidir leo ina ainm, ina hainm nó ina n-ainmneacha ar shlí a bhféadfaí iad a aithint. Chomh maith leis sin, fiafraítear dóibh gan aon rud a rá a d’fhéadfaí breathnú air mar ábhar díobhálach do dhea-chlú aon duine nó eintiteas. Mar sin, dá bhféadfadh a ráitis a bheith clúmhillteach do dhuine nó eintiteas aitheanta, ordófar do na finnéithe éirí as na ráitis sin láithreach. Tá sé ríthábhachtach go ngéillfidh siad don choiste má eisítear ordú dá leithéid.
Déanfaimid ár mbreithniú ar ábhar an chruinnithe seo. Iarraim ar phríomhfheidhmeannach, Andrea Feeney, an ráiteas tosaigh a thabhairt.
Ms Andrea Feeney:
Is príomhoifigeach feidhmiúcháin Choimisiún na Scrúduithe Stáit mé. Liom anseo inniu, tá Elaine Sheridan, comhghleacaí liom i gCoimisiún na Scrúduithe Stáit agus ceann na rannóige scrúduithe agus measúnuithe. Ba mhaith liom mo bhuíochas a ghabháil leis an gCathaoirleach agus le comhaltaí an chomhchoiste as an gcuireadh anseo chun eolas a thabhairt faoi scrúduithe Gaeilge T2 sa tsraith shóisearach i 2022. Is é an ról atá ag Coimisiún na Scrúduithe Stáit ná polasaithe scrúduithe agus measúnaithe a chur i bhfeidhm faoi stiúir an Aire Oideachais. Cuireann an Chomhairle Náisiúnta Curaclaim agus Measúnachta, CNCM, comhairle ar an Aire faoi fhorbairt an churaclaim. Tá córas níos leithne measúnaithe agus tuairiscithe mar chuid de pholasaí an Rialtais maidir le hathbhreithniú ar an tsraith shóisearach.
Socraíonn Coimisiún na Scrúduithe Stáit ar na mionsonraí maidir le struchtúr agus ábhar an scrúdaithe i ngach aon ábhar scoile ar leith trí chomhairliúchán leis an Roinn Oideachais agus leis an CNCM, agus déantar na mionsonraí sin a dhearadh chun sampláil chuí a dhéanamh ar na torthaí foghlama. Réitíonn Coimisiún na Scrúduithe Stáit na scrúduithe deiridh de réir na struchtúr uileghabhálach atá leagtha amach ag an Roinn atá mar chuid d’athbhreithniú na sraithe sóisearaí. Bhí próiseas mionchúiseach i gceist le réiteach na bpáipéar le cinntiú gur réitíodh iad de réir threoirlínte agus phrótacail CSS agus go bhfuil siad ag teacht go hiomlán leis an tsonraíocht.
Mar chuid den phróiseas sin, d’athbhreithnigh saineolaithe ábhair na bpáipéar chun measúnú a dhéanamh ar a n-oiriúnacht, ar oiriúnacht na torthaí foghlama éagsúla, ar shoiléireacht na teanga iontu agus ar an dúshlán a bhaineann leo. Feictear do Choimisiún na Scrúduithe Stáit go bhfuil scrúduithe Gaeilge na sraithe sóisearaí 2022, idir struchtúr, ábhar, leagan amach agus leibhéal deacrachta, ag teacht go hiomlán le haidhm uileghabhálach an athbhreithnithe ar an tsraith shóisearach. Féadtar a thabhairt dá n-aire go dtugann gnóthachtáil na n-iarrthóirí sna scrúduithe agus caighdeán na hoibre a chuir siad ar fáil, le tuiscint go raibh tromlach mór na n-iarrthóirí in ann tabhairt faoi na tascanna scrúdaithe, mar is cuí, agus torthaí a bhaint amach a thug léiriú cuí ar an gcaoi ar éirigh leo na torthaí foghlama a bhaint amach.
Maidir le T1 agus T2 sa Ghaeilge, tuigtear dúinn go bhfuil obair ar siúl ag an CNCM ar athbhreithniú luath sa chur i bhfeidhm, próiseas a bhfuil cineálacha éagsúla aiseolais agus taighde i gceist leis. Tá súil againn go dtuigfidh an coiste gur gníomhaireacht muid atá freagrach as cur i bhfeidhm cinntí polasaí a dhéanann an Roinn agus an tAire agus, dá réir sin, nach mbeadh sé cuí dá labhróimis faoi na polasaithe féin. Tá Iníon Sheridan agus mé féin sásta aon cheisteanna atá ag an gcoiste a fhreagairt ach iarraimid ar an gCathaoirleach, lena thoil, gur trí Bhéarla a bheadh aon phlé eile linn ionas gur féidir tabhairt faoin bplé sin go líofa, soiléir.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Ó thaobh an cheist dheireanach a d'ardaigh Andrea Feeney, cuirfear na ceisteanna pé bealach a bhfuil na comhaltaí ag iarraidh iad a chur, bíodh sé i mBéarla nó i nGaeilge. Déantar aistriú orthu agus is féidir leis na finnéithe freagra a thabhairt i mBéarla nó i nGaeilge. Déantar gnó an choiste seo trí Ghaeilge. Is ar na baill atá sé na ceisteanna a chur agus ar na finnéithe na freagraí a thabhairt, más féidir leo in aon chor.
Aindrias Moynihan (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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Gabhaim buíochas le hAndrea Feeney as an tuairisc. Níl ach cúpla ceist agam i ndáiríre mar tuigim go bhfuil roinnt mhaith obair déanta ag Coimisiún na Scrúduithe Stáit chun an plean seo a thabhairt chun cinn. An raibh na páirtithe go léir ar aon aigne mar gheall ar an gcaighdeán nó ar an bpáipéar ar deireadh nó an raibh aon easaontas ann? B'fhéidir go bhféadfadh leis na finnéithe soiléiriú a thabhairt air sin. Luaitear chomh maith, mar chuid den phróiseas forbartha go raibh roinnt plé idir chigireacht CNCM agus a leithéid agus, mar chuid dó sin, go raibh roinnt anonn agus anall. An raibh an coimisiún ábalta gach ceist a réiteach go sásúil ag an tráth sin nó an raibh na páirtithe éagsúla sásta le pé réiteach agus leagan amach a cuireadh chun cinn?
Aindrias Moynihan (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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Bhí an páipéar scrúdaithe ar fad i gceist agam.
Ms Elaine Sheridan:
With regard to the new examination in T1 and T2 for junior cycle Gaeilge, the first examination paper was the sample paper which was published in 2019. There was a delay, because of Covid, with regard to rolling out the specification. The first examination for the full cohort was 2022. There was considerable collaboration, in the development of the sample paper, between the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment, NCCA, the Department inspectors and us, at various stages, to build on the collaborative process that was there for the formation and development of the specification in the first place.
Before the sample paper was completed, what I would call the tripartite meetings happened and the material and the development of the paper were shared. On the actual live examination paper in 2022, there would not have been sharing with the NCCA and the Department because it was a live examination and was confidential. However, with the lessons learned, the collaboration and the toing and froing the Deputy referred to with regard to consultation on the sample paper were reflected in the development of the paper for 2022. In the development of both examination papers, experts in the subject were brought in to review the papers. Subject teachers worked on the papers in the setting process and a subject expert teaching in a school using the T2 specification reviewed and scrutinised the papers with regard to demand, time, level of difficulty and standard. It is quite a robust process from beginning to end in terms of setting the sample paper and leading into the first live examination paper.
Aindrias Moynihan (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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An raibh an coimisiún ábalta gach ábhar a réiteach ag an tráth sin? An raibh gach éinne ar aon aigne mar gheall ar an leagan amach agus an caighdeán a bheadh ar fáil? Táim ag caint faoi na páirtithe éagsúla nuair a bhí an coimisiún críochnaithe leis an bpáipéar samplach.
Ms Elaine Sheridan:
Yes. The NCCA, the State Examinations Commission, SEC, and the Department inspectorate agreed and collaborated on the final structure of the paper. Some of that was decided at the subject development stage and the specification stage. Weightings were assigned to productive and receptive skills so the paper just mirrored what was already said. That was what was agreed with the subject development group in the design of the specification.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh na finnéithe. Tá an togra seo maidir le T1 agus T2 ag dul siar go 2017. An bhfuil an ceart agam? Is sé bliana ó shin é sin. Ansin, de bharr na paindéime Covid, ní raibh scrúdú i gceist go dtí an bhliain seo caite. Chun a bheith cruinn, is iad sin na fíricí cearta. An bhfuil an coimisiún ag easaontú liom go raibh ruaille buaille i gceist ó thaobh an scrúdaithe sin an bhliain seo caite? Bhí na múinteoirí agus daltaí iomlán míshásta. An bhfuil mé mícheart? An bhfuil na finnéithe ar an eolas go raibh a lán daoine míshásta? Fágfaidh mé é ag an bpointe seo chun freagra a fháil.
Ms Andrea Feeney:
The Deputy is correct. The first examination should have been in 2020 but, because of the interruption of the Covid pandemic, that did not happen so the first examination was in 2022. Adjustments were made to the assessment arrangements for both the junior cycle and the leaving certificate, recognising the disruption to the educational journey of those students created by Covid. In the case of the junior cycle, students had to do one rather than two of the classroom-based assessments. When we think of the junior cycle, the focus is not just on the written examination. In fact, it is about dispersing the assessment load.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Tiocfaidh mé ar ais go dtí na pointí sin agus ligfidh mé neart ama dóibh, le cead ón gCathaoirleach. Ag dul ar ais go dtí mo cheist, tar éis an scrúdaithe in 2022, an bhfuil an coimisiún ar an eolas go raibh a lán daltaí agus múinteoirí, an formhór díobh de réir mar a thuigim, míshásta leis an scrúdú a bhí ar fáil?
Ms Andrea Feeney:
There was some feedback at the time certainly about the examinations and the test of the examinations. I refer not just to Irish but to other subjects as well. It should be remembered that, because it was supposed to be year five of the examinations, it was a big bang for students in 2022 across a range of different subjects. There was certainly some feedback on the examination at the time. We responded to some press queries. There was also some feedback from teachers but very little has come in to us from students.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Tá sé sin suimiúil. Os mo chomhair, agus mar réamhobair don chruinniú, tá roinnt de na haighneachtaí agus ráitis tosaigh a bhí le léamh againn nuair a tháinig daoine áirithe os ár gcomhair. Táim ag breathnú anois ar ráiteas achomair Eimear Kilrane thar ceann foireann na Gaeilge Choláiste Ráth Tó. Thug sí ráiteas cuimsitheach dúinn. Deirtear sa ráiteas scríofa:
Tá sé deacair a bheith dóchasach faoi láthair faoi chúrsaí Gaeilge sa tSraith Shóisearach. Tá líon na ndaltaí inár scoil atá ag iarraidh tabhairt faoin nGnáthleibhéal in ionad Ardleibhéal sa tSraith Shóisearach níos airde ná riamh.
Tá cúig nó sé leathanach agam anseo. Is é an pointe atá á dhéanamh aici ná "Ní fhéadfaimís ar fad a bheith mícheart anseo". B'fhéidir nach bhfuil mé féaráilte. Táim ag iarraidh a bheith féaráilte. Is cur i láthair amháin é sin. Tá cur i láthair eile ó Shamhain 2022 agam ó Aontas Daltaí Iar-Bhunscoile na hÉireann. Tháinig ionadaithe ón aontas os ár gcomhair agus chuir siad in iúl dúinn go raibh siadsan míshásta. Tá ceann eile agam ón nGréasán do Mhúinteoirí Gaeilge. Thug an gréasán dhá aitheasc iomlána agus achoimre dúinn. Rinne siad cur síos cruinn ar na fadhbanna a bhí aimsithe acu. Níl an coimisiún ar an eolas faoi na haighneachtaí seo. Ar bhreathnaigh na finnéithe ar na cuir i láthair nuair a tháinig na daoine sin os comhair an choiste seo?
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Tá an méid atá léite agam ag teacht salach ar an méid atá á rá ag na finnéithe. Tá na daoine sin ag cur iúl go bhfuil lagmhisneach agus éadóchas orthu agus go bhfuil siad buartha faoi thodhchaí na Gaeilge. Tá a lán pointí á ndéanamh acu ach go háirithe tá siad ag rá nach bhfuil aon athrú intinne ann ó thaobh an scrúdú béil.
Ms Andrea Feeney:
In response to the invitation to address the committee today, we suggested that there were other parties who might be able to have a more expansive discussion on some of these issues. Our role is quite clear in relation to the examinations. We are a delivery body and an agency of the Department. Our role is to implement policy at the direction of the Minister and as advised by the NCCA. We were involved in the junior cycle reform process as a party that was at the table and collective decisions were taken about the nature of assessment at an overall curriculum level and also at an individual subject level. Certain characteristics of the examination were decided in that central development process. These included no-choice examination papers, a common level other than in the subjects of Irish, English and mathematics, that exams were generally to last two hours and a particular grading structure. Another one of the central decisions taken related to the classroom-based assessments. The oral examination at junior cycle is a classroom-based assessment. The test of oral competency is a classroom-based assessment delivered and marked by the class teacher and reported on in the junior cycle profile of achievement. These all go back to central policy decisions. Our role is the delivery of the final examination. The conversation as to the form of the oral examination and any unhappiness with that form is not one we can respond on.
It is important to point out that, prior to the new junior cycle specification for Gaeilge coming in, not all students had the opportunity to have an oral assessment because it was optional. It was delivered by class teachers but it was optional not at the option of the candidate, but at the option of the school. Schools made decisions. There were varying mandates with regard to teachers assessing their own students and they were trying to navigate through all of that. In the context of junior cycle reform, it was considered that the most appropriate way to assess oral competency was in the classroom by the class teacher as one of the classroom-based assessments. That also gave the opportunity for all students to have their oral competency assessed, which had not been happening up to that point.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Tuigim an trioblóid. Tá an coimisiún ann chun polasaí a chur i bhfeidhm.
Níl baint ar bith ag na finnéithe maidir leis an bpolasaí ach chun é a chur i bhfeidhm. Ag an am céanna, tá na finnéithe ag seasamh leis gur rud maith é. Ní féidir an dá thrá a fhreastal. Má tá na finnéithe ann le polasaí a chur i bhfeidhm, aontaím leis sin agus níl locht ar bith orthu. B'fhéidir go bhfuil an ceart acu go mba chóir go mbeadh dream eile os ár gcomhair. Dar le méid na n-aighneachtaí atá agam, agus is dócha go bhfuil cúpla ceann in easnamh mar bhí mé in ann mo lámh a chur ar an méid sin, tá siad ag cur in iúl arís is arís eile na lochtanna ó thaobh an chur i láthair nó an chur chuige nua. Go praiticiúil, tá na finnéithe ag rá go bhfuil scileanna teanga agus labhartha i gceist. Tá na haighneachtaí atá agam ag rá soiléir go bhfuil gá le scrúdú labhartha mar chuid den scrúdú, agus go mbeadh na torthaí mar chuid de na torthaí iomlána. Níl sé sin ann faoi láthair.
Tá na haighneachtaí ag rá nach raibh aon nasc idir an t-aon pháipéar samplach a cuireadh ar fáil agus an scrúdú a bhí le déanamh ag na daltaí mar go raibh siad iomlán difriúil. Dar leo bhí an tsonraíocht iomlán doiléir. Is é an rud a léimeann amach ó na haighneachtaí ná go bhfuil siad ag iarraidh soiléireachta níos fearr ó thaobh téama agus ábhar di, agus go bhfuil an scrúdú mar atá sé ró-chasta agus ró-dheacair do na daltaí, ag cur san áireamh nach bhfuil an tríú scrúdú i gceist níos mó ag an mbunleibhéal. Dar le cuid acu, tá cuid den scrúdú níos deacra ná scrúdú ardteistiméireachta.
Mura bhfuil daoine in ann teacht ar ais agus mé a cheartú, b'fhéidir gur am amú i ndáiríre é. Nílim ag cur locht ar bith ar na bhfinnéithe agus tá céad míle fáilte rompu, ach tá mé ag iarraidh a fháil amach cén fáth go bhfuil na dreamanna eile ag teacht os ár gcomhair agus iad go hiomlán míshásta ach go bhfuil na bhfinnéithe anseo ag rá gurb é sin an polasaí agus nach mbaineann sé leo. Tuigim é sin agus ba chóir dóibh é seo a phlé le dreamanna eile. An é sin bun agus barr an scéil?
Ms Andrea Feeney:
We can certainly address the questions the Deputy had in respect of the examination paper. I was giving some background in relation to the oral as to what had been there before rather than making a comment as to the rightness or wrongness, or the experience, but that that was the situation previously. We can certainly address the issues in relation to the examination paper: the issue that the Deputy has raised and the connection between the sample and the live examination, the request for additional themed subject material, and the assertion that it was too difficult.
The decision that the examination would not be foundation level was a policy decision taken in the context of reform to reduce higher and ordinary levels in all subjects to a common level, other than in Irish, English and maths, where there is a higher and ordinary level. This meant in the case of Irish and maths moving from three levels to two levels. I might ask-----
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Tuigim é sin ach ag eascairt as na hathruithe sin, ní maith liom na focail “níos laige” a úsáid ach maidir leis na daltaí a bhí agus atá níos laige, níl deis acu an bunleibhéal a dhéanamh anois agus tá orthu, dá bharr, obair i bhfad níos deacra agus níos casta a dhéanamh de bharr an chinnidh sin. Arís, deir mé leis na finnéithe gan aon rud a rá muna mbaineann sé leo. Is iad seo na deacrachtaí atá ar an talamh anois. Cá bhfuilimid ag dul, a Chathaoirligh?
Ms Andrea Feeney:
I will respond, if I may, in relation to the examination paper. As the Deputy is aware, the NCCA is conducting an early enactment review and this feedback is being gathered at the moment to feed into that process, but I will ask my colleague, Ms Sheridan, to talk to the Deputy about the assertion in respect of the sample paper and the live examination paper.
Ms Elaine Sheridan:
I appreciate the submissions provided to the committee and which the Deputy reviewed. We reviewed them all and again some of the content of those are curriculum issues which would not be within our area, and specifically within the exam.
Taking the observations, the sample paper was issued and there was both a positive and negative reaction to sample papers, as there was in terms of any of the sample papers we issued. It is the junior cycle framework. The purpose of it is a new approach to teaching and learning and to assessment at junior cycle. It is a learning outcomes-based specification and is not a content-based specification. That is one of the key changes with the junior cycle framework. All of the specifications in all of the subjects are driven by learning outcomes not content. It is not that we take section 1 of the specification to deal with this piece of content and section 2 to deal with another but is an integrated approach. In terms of Gaeilge, the idea is to integrate the language throughout the communicative competency of the students.
On the examination paper, because it is a learning outcomes-based approach, it does not look or feel the same as the junior certificate Gaeilge examination paper, nor do the geography or maths papers. They look different because they are developed in line with the specification, which is a kind of an integrated approach. One does not have a particular question based upon a piece of content. The questions assess across the range of strands, elements and the various learning outcomes in the specification.
The feedback was taken on when we published our sample paper. There was feedback in respect of it being too long and that there may have been too many questions, and there was one less question then on the live examination paper. Any other feedback was taken into account, reviewed and shared with our people who are working with us on the paper preparation. I mentioned the subject experts and the reviewers. On some of the observations in respect of the 2022 paper, maybe people were saying that it was not easy for the teachers to prepare the students in terms of content that would come up. That is because that is the structure of the specification.
The idea with this is that we are trying to encourage critical thinking and these 21st century skills. The idea is that the students engage with the language and the literature throughout the classroom as part of the teaching and learning process and that the examination then will provide opportunities for them to demonstrate their personal experience and thoughts, what they feel and what they think, through the medium of Irish, from their discussion and engagement in the classroom on that. It is not so much, - I will use English here as an example - if the poet Sylvia Plath will come up in the leaving certificate English paper. The learning outcomes approach does not lend itself to where one has a content-based driven examination. That is the first piece of a change that is there.
There is a different approach to assessment because it is to provide students with an opportunity, all students of different levels of ability, to use their personal experience and engagement to demonstrate their attainment. That is why, then, within the examination paper itself, there is a range of questions. These are more critical thinking higher-order questions, short response questions and opportunities then within the written production for longer responses also.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I do not know. Ní saineolaí mé ach is féidir liom éisteacht agus léamh. Tá neart cloiste agus léite agam. Tá an méid atá á rá ag na bhfinnéithe ag teacht iomlán salach ar an méid atá cloiste againn. Níl a fhios agam cá bhfuil an réiteach air seo. Ar leibhéal amháin, tá na bhfinnéithe ag rá nach mbaineann an cheist seo leo, ach ar an leibhéal eile, tá cosaint láidir á déanamh acu ó thaobh smaoineamh criticiúil agus aontaím leo. Is é sin an saghas oideachais atá ag teastáil uainn ach ní hé sin atá ag tarlú. Dar leis na haighneachtaí, tá lagmhisneach ar na daltaí agus ar na múinteoirí agus níl mé ach ag athrá an méid atá sna haighneachtaí seo. Níl a fhios agam an aontaím leo ach is é sin an méid atá siad ag cur os ár gcomhair. Cad a dhéanfaimid leis seo? Tá sé ciallmhar agus meabhrach éisteacht leo agus ciallmhar, b'fhéidir, athbhreithniú a dhéanamh agus a fháil amach cad iad na fadhbanna atá ann. An bhfuil athbhreithniú ar siúl faoi láthair ó thaobh an scrúdaithe de?
Ms Andrea Feeney:
There are two issues. The end product is that we mark the examinations, provide results to the students and perhaps some information in respect of the performance of students in the examination. On the day, they had a particular feeling about an experience, and the teachers did as well, but ultimately we issued a set of results. We can see across the board that the results that students attained in Irish were on a par with English and in some of the grades better than in English. They were similar to the other junior cycle subjects. We are happy to provide that detail to the committee if it would be helpful to understand the range of performance of students.
The review I mentioned is in the context of the NCCA review and the early enactment review under the reform of the junior cycle. I read the submissions, as did Ms Sheridan, and there are many issues intertwined, not just in respect of the examination. Our boundaries are limited by what is in the specification. We cannot deviate from that. There is a particular language used within the specification about asking students to demonstrate linguistic abilities in language and literary tasks demanding personal interactive communication. We are assured that the papers we provided, both the sample and live paper, are in line with the specification, which we said already in the opening statement, and that they appropriately tested the range of abilities of students. Again, in an examination, there are varying ranges of abilities and we are asking questions and anticipating answers across a range of abilities at both the higher and the ordinary level. The review that is there is in the context of the NCCA’s early enactment review of Irish. There has been feedback within that process, as I understand, in respect of the oral competency but also in respect of the learning outcomes and of the examination itself. It is in that space but it is not our review, it is the NCCA’s review.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Ms Elaine Sheridan:
I am conscious of trying to reassure the Deputy in some sense. There is the broader review and the enactment which will be carried out, as happened with the introduction of all specifications. Some of the criticism, which the Deputy has mentioned, is that we only published one sample paper. One of the reasons we publish one sample paper is that the way the examination process works here in Ireland is that we do not pre-test material. They do that in other jurisdictions but we do not. We publish one sample paper and it is only one because we do not want too many examinations prepared and out in the system and maybe potentially being used as a teaching aid too early until we have had an opportunity to see how candidates respond to it.
From the sample paper, we took the feedback on board, as I mentioned earlier. Obviously now, we have had an opportunity to sample these papers with 29,540 candidates at higher level and another 24,000 at ordinary level. We have looked at the candidate responses, which is a key part, and these outcomes have been referred to by Ms Feeney as being positive. The report back from our examining teams was that candidates showed good levels of attainment. We will take on board what we observed last summer in respect to candidate responses and we are taking this on board also in respect of the design and the development of the paper for 2023.
There will be another examination paper out in the system and another marking scheme but we will have learned lessons if there was something to be taken from reviewing a very large range of the candidate responses across the grades. Again, it is a new examination with a new grading process. That will have fed into and continues to feed in to the paper preparation process for 2023.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis na bhfinnéithe. Tá sé deacair an méid seo a léamh. Níl daoine ag insint bréag. Tá siad ag cur síos ar an taithí atá acu ar an talamh sna ranganna. Cloisim go bhfuil na torthaí go maith agus ba mhaith liom na sonraí sin a fheiceáil ó thaobh na bhfigiúirí de. Bheadh sé suimiúil a fháil amach cé mhéad de na daltaí atá ag dul ar aghaidh chun onóracha a dhéanamh.
Is é an príomhthéama atá ag teacht tríd ár n-aiseolas ná go bhfuil gá práinneach leis an scrúdú béil a chur ar ais agus ní leor an méid atá ag tarlú, is é sin measúnú taobh istigh den rang. Tá cur síos anseo, mar a dúirt mé, ó thaobh na sonraíochta de maidir leis an bpáipéar samplach agus is é sin nach raibh sé representative. Chuaigh na daltaí isteach sa scrúdú agus bhí siad dall, i ndáiríre, mar níor tháinig aon rud chun cinn sa scrúdú a bhí cosúil leis an scrúdú samplach. Níl mise ach ag athrá anseo an rud go léir atá feicthe agam. Ní raibh rogha ar bith acu. Bhí easpa roghanna i gceist agus easpa soiléireachta ó thaobh marcanna, agus an méid marcanna a bhí ag dul do phíosa den cheist, agus araile.
Tá neart ráite agam agus b'fhéidir go mbeidh orainn an t-ábhar seo a thabhairt do dhream eile, níl a fhios agam. An mbeidh an t-athbhreithniú foilsithe?
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Sula bhfreagróidh na finnéithe, is é an fáth nár thugamar an CNCM os ár gcomhair inniu ná nach raibh an t-athbhreithniú críochnaithe. Beimid ag díriú isteach air maidir leis an athbhreithniú. Tá sé i gceist ag an gcoiste cruinniú a eagrú a luaithe is atá an t-athbhreithniú sin déanta mar tá ceisteanna faoin gcóras ar fad.
Inniu, chuireamar cuireadh chuig Coimisiún na Scrúduithe Stáit teacht os ár gcomhair díreach mar gheall ar an bpáipéar agus ar an slí a thángamar ar an bpáipéar faoina raibh daoine ag gearán faoi anuraidh. Tuigim na ceisteanna eile maidir leis an mbéaltriail. Ansin freisin, d'fhéadfaí go mbeidh an Roinn féin os ár gcomhair, más gá. In ionad go mbeadh trí chomhrá ar siúl ag an am céanna, chinneamar go nglacfaimis le finnéithe diaidh ar ndiaidh toisc gur ardaigh na múinteoirí agus ionadaithe na ndaltaí na ceisteanna móra linn, go háirithe faoin scrúdú. Bhí ceisteanna eile faoin gcóras don trí bliana ina iomláine maidir leis an ábhar féin agus an chaoi a chaitear le hábhar na Gaeilge. Tuigimid go bhfuil na finnéithe gafa go díreach leis an bpáipéar scrúdaithe agus leis na treoracha agus gur gá dóibh an treoir a thugann an CNCM dóibh a ghlacadh agus a chur ar pháipéar. D'fhéadfadh na finnéithe ceist an Teachta a fhreagairt.
Ms Andrea Feeney:
We are can respond to the question relating to the examination paper. The Deputy mentioned the choice. I will return to the decisions which were taken at the time when junior cycle reform came in. It included this triumvirate of the Department, the SEC and the NCCA making a decision relating to certain characteristics of the examinations, including that there would be no choice. That is something that is considered appropriate for students at that age because when they go into an exam, which is two hours long, the fact that there is no choice means that they are not making decisions but are just answering the questions which are in front of them. It is designed to be clearer for the student. I know that the Deputy mentioned that there was a lack of clarity but there were mark allocations on the examination papers. The other guide given to the students was the amount of writing space. Each examination paper is structured with question-answer and the guide the students are given is in respect of the amount of writing space. I may ask Ms Sheridan to comment but there are mark allocations on those papers.
Ms Elaine Sheridan:
The mark allocations are there for sections and for question numbers. There are eight questions with the mark for the questions. They were not broken down for each subpart because that again allows for flexibility at the time of marking. The indication is there in terms of the space that is provided for them. They know when they are required to write an extended response and a short response, or tick a box, where there is a prescribed set of space there.
To confirm and to follow up on Ms Feeney’s point on not having a choice, having no choice for weaker and middle-of-the-road students is an obstacle one is removing and it makes the paper less challenging for them because they have less to read. It makes a paper shorter by having no choice and all of the junior cycle examination papers have no choice. Sometimes, there may be a little bit of internal choice within questions. In the written production, for example, the students may be given an option to write a blog, a letter or email.
The other piece to consider within the Gaeilge is literature. That is another area which is covered but is a policy matter. Within literature, there is a prescribed set of literature. Schools, teachers and students choose which literature they will base their studies on. The questions we set are broad and open so that they can answer the question to suit the piece of literature, short story, drama or poetry they have chosen to study. That sort of choice and flexibility has to be there within the questions so that the question can be answered, depending on what literature the students have chosen to study.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Níl fadhb ar bith agam le bealach nua. Is í an fhadhb atá agamsa ná nach bhfuil sé sin á léamh agam ó thaobh na n-aighneachtaí de. Is í sin an t-aon fhadhb atá agam. Tá siad ag rá os ár gcomhair anseo go bhfuil fadhbanna ollmhóra ar an talamh. Ní saineolaí nó múinteoir mé agus níl mé ach ag iarraidh a chur in iúl an méid atá curtha os ár gcomhair. Tá Coimisiún na Scrúduithe Stáit ag rá rud amháin agus tá siadsan ag rá rud eile. Tá mé ag cur ceiste orm féin faoin bhfáth a bhfuilimid ag an bpointe seo. Cé hiad an "triumverate" seo a luaigh Andrea Feeney?
Ms Andrea Feeney:
It is the Department, the NCCA and the SEC. In the context of development work and the implementation of decisions arising from junior cycle, there will be consultation and engagement with other stakeholders, but we work very closely with those two other bodies in finalising implementation issues.
Ms Elaine Sheridan:
Certification is different in the junior cycle. With the junior certificate the SEC issues a certificate to the schools. It is the sole certification for the junior certificate. The approach to the junior cycle is different. The junior cycle framework brings with it the junior cycle profile of achievement, JCPA, for the students. I think a sample of it was attached with our opening statement. That is a key change. The SEC piece of the JCPA is only one piece. Classroom-based and school based assessments are another, where students are getting certification and being rewarded and acknowledged for other activities, beyond the SEC element of the examination. The key part within the junior cycle framework is that the purpose of this change and reform is to ensure that students are certified and there is acknowledgement of achievement beyond the written examination at the end of the day. That is where the oral assessment is coming in, within the second classroom-based assessment. It is acknowledged and recorded on this JCPA that students receive at the end of the day. It is important to remember that the SEC element is only one element of the certification for junior cycle, whereas in the junior certification, it was the one certificate.
Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis na finnéithe as ucht é sin, ach tá gá le scrúdú béil ó thaobh na teanga de. Tá neamhaird á déanamh anseo. Tá na finnéithe ag rá, arís agus arís eile, gur leor é go bhfuil sé mar chuid den mheasúnú atá ag tarlú laistigh den rang. Tá na múinteoirí agus saineolaithe ag rá go soiléir dúinn go bhfuil gá le béim ar scrúdú béil, ó thaobh na teanga de, ó thaobh chomh tábhachtach agus atá sé ag cur in iúl gur teanga bheo bhríomhar í agus ó thaobh na hardteistiméireachta atá ag teacht dhá bhliain ina dhiaidh sin. Ní saineolaí mé ach aontaím leo go bhfuil gá le scrúdú béil a bheith ar ais mar chuid lárnach den scrúdú, cosúil leis an ardteistiméireacht.
Ms Andrea Feeney:
There was an oral as part of the previous junior certificate, but it was optional and it was available to approximately 40% of the students. There was 60% that did not have that opportunity. The task students undertake as part of the classroom-based assessment is a communication task. It can be an oral assessment they undertake with their teacher in the classroom. That is a different issue, but there can be an oral assessment that is reported on as a classroom-based assessment and the result is put on the JCPA. That opportunity is there.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Cén sórt tomhais a dhéantar air? An bhfuil aon ról ag Coimisiún na Scrúduithe Stáit tomhas a dhéanamh ar conas mar atá na múinteoirí ag déanamh an mheasúnaithe rangbhunaithe sin?
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Níl aon ról ag Coimisiún na Scrúduithe Stáit.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I mí an Mheithimh seo caite, fuair a lán dúinn ríomhphoist chrosta ó mhúinteoirí agus ó roinnt tuismitheoirí a raibh na daltaí nó páistí acu ag teacht abhaile tar éis scrúdú ar shíl siad é a bheith i bhfad ródheacair dóibh don leibhéal ar a raibh siad. Bhí na múinteoirí crosta mar shíl siad nach raibh siad ar an eolas i gceart ar na topaicí nó a leithéid a mbeadh á bplé sa pháipéar scrúdaithe agus nach raibh sé ag cloí leis an bpáipéar samplach a bhí tugtha dóibh. Sin é an fáth gur thug mise an deis dóibh teacht os ár gcomhair, is é sin, le féachaint ar a raibh go díreach san fhadhb. Is é cuid den jab atá againn ná an Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn agus má tá rud ag tarlú atá ag tabhairt lagmhisnigh do thuismitheoirí nó do dhaltaí, beimid ag breathnú air ó thaobh na Gaeilge de agus cur chun cinn na Gaeilge. Ba chóir dúinn é sin a fhiosrú.
Nuair a tháinig na dreamanna difriúla os ár gcomhair amhail an Gréasán do Mhúinteoirí Gaeilge agus roinnt múinteoirí agus mic léinn, dúirt gach uile dhuine acu nach raibh an páipéar samplach ag luí leis an bpáipéar a bhí ann anuraidh. Tá sé sin thart ar shlí amháin agus tá an chuma air go bhfuil na finnéithe ag rá go raibh an páipéar ag teacht leis, ach an bhfuil aon treoracha nua nó eolas breise curtha ar fáil do na múinteoirí don bhliain scrúdú seo? Táimid anois i mí an Mhárta. Tá na múinteoirí tar éis tréimhse a chaitheamh ag múineadh. Tá dhá mhí eile sula gcríochnóinn na daltaí sa tsraith shóisearach ar an staidéar agus tá scrúdú os á gcomhair ansin. An bhfuil aon athrú suntasach ag tarlú? Luadh scéim marcála nua nó athraithe.
Bhí topaicí luaite san ábhar ar shíl mise go mbeidís deacair go leor d'aon dalta. Bhí emojis agus aeráid luaite. Bheadh na hábhair sin deacair go leor dóibh siúd atá ar an ngnáthleibhéal déileáil leo. Má táimid chun bheith ag plé le hábhair ar an bpáipéar Gaeilge atá chomh teicniúil casta sin, caithfidh sé sin a bheith san áireamh ó thús nuair a théann na páistí isteach sa chéad bhliain.
Ms Andrea Feeney:
We will try to deal with the questions between us. There have been occurrences in the past, where students have gone into an examination and found it was difficult and challenging. We have had situations where the feedback was that the standard was demanding. There was certainly such feedback in June. We take that on board and listen to it. However, students generally find those issues are then resolved in the marking process. If it was feedback across the board that it was a challenging examination, that can be addressed in the marking process.
With regard to the exam paper not being compliant with the sample paper and the topics or content not being as expected, I hope Ms Sheridan has given an outline already of why that is the case. It is a sample paper; therefore, it is a guide. Anybody who is looking at the sample paper and the exam paper from 2022 could still not have an expectation that what he or she would see in 2023 would be absolutely the same as that, because this can only ever be guidance. We are assessing the broadest ranges of the specification and trying to make sure the examination has something for students at all levels of ability. It is certainly not our intention to disillusion students or teachers in the Irish language or another subject. What we set out to do in the SEC is very much focused on students and their parents. They might not always feel that because, at the end of the day, we are delivering an examination. We have an information note which I will ask Ms Sheridan to talk to.
With regard to the question on technical or complicated topics such as emojis or climate, they were not designed to be technical or complicated. They were designed to elicit information from students that they would be able to respond to.
There is an issue in that there are not topics, themes and content as there might have been previously. Instead, there is the everyday learning and interaction between students and their teachers in the classroom and the vocabulary students pick up in association with that, which we are trying to assess. I will ask my colleague, Ms Sheridan, to talk about information or guidance for teachers.
Ms Elaine Sheridan:
I might pick up on another point first, if that is okay. With regard to the change, if you to compare the two examination papers, the sample paper and the live paper, which are in front of members now, taking a numerical approach, one of the most noticeable differences is that the number of marks assigned to cluastuiscint is different in the live paper from 2020 and the sample paper. To reiterate, the specification talks about receptive and productive skills and sets a weighting for each. When we set the examination, we ensure that weighting applies. Receptive skills comprise a combination of reading and listening skills. The aural passages in the sample paper were such as to allow a given number of questions. They were rich enough and contained enough stimulus to allow questions to be asked so there was less weighting for receptive skills in the comprehension questions. However, in the live paper, the same balance in respect of receptive skills applied, it is just that it was a balance between reading and listening. The two exam papers contained a mix of short-response questions, long-response questions, written production, cluastuiscint and reading comprehension. This goes back to the point that this is not a content-driven specification. It is about using everyday themes. Students are not being marked on their ability to stay up to date on topics. It is about the everyday use of language in the classroom. We are trying to get them to give their own personal thoughts on their engagement with topical matters in writing.
When a new specification comes out, we normally publish a chief examiner's report going through the engagement with the aims and objectives of the specification and what we observed during marking. However, in light of the disrupted learning and the adjustments made - there were no assessment tasks and a reduction in the number of classroom-based assessments - that resulted from the Covid pandemic, we are doing a shorter version this time out. We will get back to a more detailed chief examiner's report in due course. We hope that will be published in the coming weeks. It will note best practice or areas of good practice observed over the course of the marking and offer some guidance to take on board in planning for the future. I hope that will be published shortly and will be available as a resource to students in advance of engaging with their examination in June.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Is trua é nach bhfuil sé sin ann cheana féin. Beidh sé go maith don bhliain seo chugainn ach beidh sé ródhéanach le tionchar mór a imirt do a lán páistí i mbliana. Maidir leis an bpróiseas marcála, b'ait liom i gcónaí go bhféadfaí marcanna a athrú just chun déanamh cinnte go mbeadh an bell curve céanna ann ag an deireadh. Is cuimhin liom, nuair a bhí mo mháthair ag déanamh marcála ar pháipéir ealaíne, bhí céatadán áirithe a bhí le A a fháil agus céatadán eile a bhí le B a fháil. I slí amháin, is cuma cad atá sa pháipéar, beidh an líon céanna ag fáil marcanna áirithe. Ní chuidíonn sé sin le meas a bheith ag daoine sa chur chuige atá ag an gcoimisiúin nó tacú leis. Aontaím leis an treo ina bhfuil an scrúdú ag dul i mbealach amháin ach, toisc gur páipéar nua agus treo nua ó thaobh an teastais shóisearaigh atá ann, is trua go bhfuil raic ar an scrúdú sin óna chéad lá seachas go bhfuil daoine ag rá go bhfuil sé go hiontach, gurb é sin an bealach ceart, go gcuirfidh sé le níos mó caidrimh idir na páistí agus an múinteoir sa rang agus go mbeadh siad níos flúirsí sa teanga, rud a chuideodh leis an scrúdú agus le dul chun cinn na Gaeilge.
Cuireadh ceist chugam le déanaí. Níl mé cinnte faoi mar níor fhéach mé ar an bpáipéar a bhí ann ach dúirt an scríbhneoir nach raibh cur síos ar na marcanna i gcomhair codanna de cheist 1 ar fáil anuraidh. Bhí ceist 1(a), 1(b) agus 1(c) ann. Bhí figiúr ann don cheist ach ní raibh sé briste síos. Ní raibh sé soiléir. Níl a fhios agam ar chuir sé sin as do mhórán páistí. B'fhéidir gur cuireadh an cheist seo chugam ar son múinteoirí atá ag iarraidh cuidiú le daltaí atá chun tabhairt faoin scrúdú i mbliana.
Níl a fhios agam an bhfuil an Seanadóir Ó Donnghaile ag iarraidh teacht isteach. Níl. Tá cúpla rud eile agam. Nuair a d'fhéach mé siar ar an méid a bhí an gréasán tar éis lua liom, thug mé faoi deara go raibh a lán de ag baint leis an CNCM. Mar a dúirt mé, fiafróidh muid den eagraíocht sin ar tháinig sé ar réiteach difriúil maidir leis an scrúdú seo.
Ní scrúdú é ach déantar measúnú ar an nGaeilge labhartha sa rang. Níl baint ag an gcoimisiún leis sin. Níl aon ghrád nó figiúir i gceist leis sin. Ní théann an méid a dhéanann daltaí sa rang leis an scrúdú scríofa. Ní béaltriail é ach measúnú rangbhunaithe. Conas is féidir cur ina luí ar dhaltaí go bhfuil buntáiste le díriú air sin agus gur chóir go ndéanfaidh siad amhlaidh toisc go mbeadh sé ina chuidiú dóibh i dtaobh an scrúdaithe scríofa? Dar le múinteoir amháin, toisc go dtuigeann na daltaí nach bhfuil aon mhór-bhuntáiste dóibh, tá siad ag déanamh neamhaird ar an gcuid sin den mheasúnú agus ag titim siar nuair a thagann an scrúdú dá réir. An féidir leis na finnéithe aon rud a rá faoin gceist sin?
Ms Andrea Feeney:
The Cathaoirleach has raised a very big issue in highlighting that. Again, the nature of the reform at junior cycle was that it aimed to take the focus off the certified final examination and bring opportunities for assessment into the classroom with the school teacher. During the Covid pandemic, we saw the role teachers had in providing information that ultimately led to the grade awarded to their students. That led to a conversation in the context of senior cycle reform suggesting that this was something that needed to be explored in greater detail. It is already there at junior cycle, however. The JCPA is the parchment students get at the end of their junior cycle experience. No one element of assessment or examination should be any more or any less important than another. Perhaps something is needed in the messaging and information that is out there to, as the Cathaoirleach says, bring all of that together because too great a focus on the final written examinations is not within the spirit of junior cycle reform. In most subjects, although not all, there are two classroom-based assessments that students are doing along with their written examination. Art is assessed in and of itself and there is no written examination at all. In the case of Irish, there are two classroom-based assessments, one of which is a communicative task, which can be an oral examination undertaken with the teachers. Students' performance in that is recorded, remitted centrally and generated on their junior cycle profiles of achievement. Any decisions taken that this is not important because it is not part of the final exam and the SEC does not certify it are not within the spirit of the reform process, under which we should value all elements of the assessment and not just the final written examination.
In relation to the standard-setting process, I am not sure if members wanted some further information on that and on how we set the standards and mark examinations. The Cathaoirleach mentioned his family experience of marking. I ask Ms Sheridan to speak to that briefly.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Bheadh sé sin áisiúil.
Ms Elaine Sheridan:
We have referred previously to reviewing candidate responses. Basically, we prepare the examination paper and in doing so, we keep a number of things in mind. Obviously, the specification is significant. That is why we are coming back to this. As was mentioned earlier, it can lead to a frustrating conversation in terms of the learning outcomes. We must make sure that what we ask in the exam is in the specification. We also develop a draft marking scheme. When we are preparing a question, we have an eye all to the time to what we expect the candidates to write and what the weighting is. We look - perhaps in the winter - at what we expect the students to present on the day. That is just a draft outline and not a final marking scheme. The next key step is when the examination has been sat and the material comes back in. We then spend a number of days with our senior advising team sampling candidate responses across the different ranges. This means taking out candidate responses and reviewing and analysing them in the context of the kinds of responses students gave, what the standard was, what kind of material was coming up and what kinds of mistakes they were making.
It is then brought to a pre-conference where the senior team sits down to work through and review as much material as possible. The team has the initial draft outline marking scheme, which then gets refined. It is then brought to the main marking conference where the bigger and full examining team has a voice and feeds into the final version of the marking scheme that will be applied to the sample 20 scripts. All our examiners then mark a random sample of their scripts. That has been hugely helpful since we moved online; it expedites the process. A random sample of every examiner's scripts is marked and we review the outcomes. We review the outcomes generally, in terms of what the overall grade profile is. We also look at the average mark by question to see if there is any particular question that is not performing as we would have expected. We establish if the question is flat-lining or if are we seeing, after looking at the particular sample, that the question is not scoring well. In such an instance, we revisit the question to consider if there was a flaw or ambiguity in it that misled the students and meant they did not present as they should. If so, we might change the marks and tweak the marking to the benefit of the candidate. We do not set a standard. We do not decide a set of outcomes without reviewing candidate responses. The point is that when people ask for more papers and more marking schemes, we do not finalise a marking scheme until we have an opportunity to review what the candidates are presenting.
At the end of the day, we want to be able to reward them for whatever they have presented. Particularly in the early days of an examination when it is new to everybody, it is extremely important we review and make huge efforts in terms of the new exams. This was particularly the case in the summer just gone. Ms Feeney referred to the big bang in 2022 when we saw a full suite of new exams across a range of new junior cycle subjects. We were very conscious that they were the first exams for a full cohort in many subjects. We reviewed a lot of material. We do not turn around to a particular examiner and say they are going to have a certain number of As, Bs, Cs, distinctions or merits. We set the standard at the sample 20-script stage. At that point, when we review the outcomes on the whole in terms of the distribution of grades, or in a particular question or even part of a question, if we see something that looks like it is malfunctioning, we address it. We continue to monitor the outcomes as we mark on through. If something becomes apparent, we revisit the marking scheme but after the sample 20, it is unusual that we would do so. One of the benefits of having a no-choice examination is that we are preparing a marking scheme for a question that everybody has answered. There are other benefits, beyond even those for the candidate in terms of having less reading in the examination.
That is how we work through our standard-setting process. It is very much candidate-centred. We do not have a predetermined set of outcomes heading into it. We have a standard and we know what the expectation would be in terms of what the specification was setting out. The NCCA has published exemplars of standards for teachers to help them in marking the classroom-based assessments. The Chair asked earlier how the teachers know how to proceed when they are marking the classroom-based assessments. There is material published on the NCCA website to assist them in that. We have worked as critical friends with the NCCA in the development of that material, and also with teachers because obviously they are the key people. While I do not want to go on too much about standard-setting, I will mention that our examiners are teachers. That is a really key thing. The committee is aware that we are looking and recruiting at the moment. We keep saying we need teachers because at the end of the day, they are the people who are in the classroom and who know what these junior cycle students are experiencing and the challenges they are having with these new specifications. All of those pieces feed into our standard-setting process.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Ag teacht as sin, ar tharla na fadhbanna, botúin nó "malfunctioning" a luaigh Elaine Sheridan anuraidh? An raibh gá tweaking a dhéanamh orthu nó an gcoimeádtar an t-eolas sin laistigh den ghrúpa féin chun díriú isteach ar an gcéad pháipéar eile? Agus muid ag caint ar an scrúdú, maidir leis an tsórt tosaíocht atá tugtha don litríocht, measaim gur timpeall 40% nó mar sin a bhí ag dul don litríocht ag am amháin. An féidir le Coimisiún na Scrúduithe Stáit a rá linn an bhfuil an tosaíocht céanna á tabhairt don litríocht, agus do na hábhair litríochta atá roghnaithe anois sa scrúdú nua, is a bhí roimhe seo? Tá a fhios agam go gcuirtear liosta timpeall, go roghnaíonn an múinteoir cúpla píosa litríochta agus gur féidir leis na daltaí díriú isteach orthu ina mbealach féin.
Tá ceist deiridh agam ar ábhar eile. Níl a fhios agam an féidir leis na finnéithe é a fhreagairt ach chuir muid an cheist seo ar an Roinn. Bhí an cúrsa nó an scrúdú seo atá á phlé againn ag an sraith sóisearach in ainm is a bheith mar chuid den ardteist ach tá an cuma ar chúrsaí anois nach dtarlóidh an t-athrú nó na hathruithe céanna ag leibhéil na hardteiste. Tá an tuairisc faoi T1 agus T2 san ardteist tar éis an chur chuige a cháineadh agus tá an tAire ag dul siar ar an gcinneadh a bhí le glacadh go mbeadh scrúdú páipéar 1 de chúrsa na hardteiste á dhéanamh i mbliain a cúig anois. An mbaineann an cheist sin leis na finnéithe nó an féidir leo aon rud a rá faoi? Munar féidir, ní gá.
Ms Andrea Feeney:
I will deal with those questions in reverse order. No, it would not be appropriate for us to comment on those decisions in relation to continuity, what is happening at senior cycle, and recent decisions in relation to the timing of papers.
When my colleague and I refer to "malfunctioning", we are speaking in the context of how the exam question was expected to perform. Again, we are looking at the performance of students, the finalisation, and the marking scheme being predicated on how students responded and reacted to that question. We are not seeing errors in those questions but maybe in answering certain questions, the performance of candidates was weaker than we might have expected, and in other questions, the performance might have been stronger than expected. That is part of the normal standard-setting process we engage in.
I will ask my colleague Ms Sheridan to address the question on the literature and the priorities. That may, frustratingly for the committee, come back to a policy-related issue but we will do our best to answer that one.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is not frustration. Tá a fhios againn nach féidir leis na finnéithe freagra a thabhairt ar rudaí nach bhfuil sa brief acu agus sin é an fáth go mbeidh cuireadh á thabhairt don CNCM agus don Roinn amach anseo. Sequence a bhí i gceist mar ní fiú dúinn iad a tharraingt isteach gan ceisteanna faoi roinnt ábhar difriúla a bheith againn. Bhíomar ag fanacht ar na tuairisc a bheith foilsithe i gcás an CNCM. Níl ceann amháin acu foilsithe ach tá sí á plé sna meáin.
Ms Elaine Sheridan:
What I was describing was in terms of the standard-setting process in general. When they reported on the standard-setting process for T1 and T2 Gaeilge in the summer, the examining teams and the chief examiner reported back very positively. That was in the circumstances mentioned by members where we were getting feedback that people were disgruntled or upset and students were disappointed with the examination.
We saw very good material in the review process and the reviewing of candidate responses. One of the things that was reported back at the time was that students engaged intensively with and had a deep understanding and knowledge of the literary texts. Students expressed their own personal views in respect of the stimulus material provided. There was very positive feedback with respect to the students' engagement with these things. Often - we have all done this - students go into to an exam and come out thinking they have performed very poorly. Actually, in fact, they have not and it may not have been quite as challenging as initially thought. The reporting back of the review of candidate responses was positive.
On the literature section, this is something which is coming up and is in the specification. There is a prescribed set of literature material of poetry, dramas, and short stories. There is a certain amount which has to be studied depending on whether one is doing the higher or ordinary, T1 nó T2, exam. Again, the purpose of the literature is not knowledge-based or on the content base. We are not assessing their knowledge of the literature. We are trying to assess what they are supposed to be engaging with in the classroom. This is the idea that they are demonstrating their language skills when engaging with the literature in the classroom. It is not that we want them to be able to review or critique a piece of literature. One of the questions on last year's paper asked what was the theme of a short story they had studied, and whether it made the student feel happy or sad. There is no right answer to that. It could make one student feel sad and another feel happy. In fact, we will not know whether they are telling us the truth and we do not mind about that. It is not a content or knowledge-based test but is an opportunity for them to show their language development through their engagement with literature. Literature is the springboard. How much literature there is varies, depending on which of the two specifications the student is doing. That is something else which is part of the enactment review which will be considered. It is a good practice to review and evaluate something new which has come in. It was probably one of the areas which An Gréasán and some of the other Irish-language groups have raised and will be something which would be considered in the enactment review. It is a springboard and stimulus material, is not a test of how well one knows the literature, but is the literature providing the student with an opportunity to demonstrate their development of language skills and not necessarily their knowledge of the literary piece itself.
Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Okay. Ní fheicim go bhfuil aon duine eile ag iarraidh ceist a chur. Ba mhaith liom mo bhuíochas a ghabháil lenár n-aíonna, Andrea Feeney agus Elaine Sheridan, as a bheith anseo linn inniu chun cuidiú lenár mbreathnú nó féachaint ar an ábhar seo lena bhfreagraí. Fillfimid ar an ábhar seo arís agus tá súil agam i ndeireadh thiar thall go gcuideoidh pé rud a dhéanfaimid le daltaí chun díriú isteach ar an nGaeilge ag na leibhéil difriúla de scrúduithe nó measúnuithe a bhíonn rompu sa mheánscoil. Cuirfear clabhsúr anois leis an díospóireacht ar an ábhar seo inniu. Beidh cruinniú de Roghchoiste na Gaeilge, na Gaeltachta agus Phobal Labhartha na Gaeilge ar siúl ar 4 p.m., áit a bheimid ag plé Meastacháin Athbhreithnithe do sheirbhísí poiblí 2023 ar chlár C, An Ghaeltacht, de Vóta 33 de chuid na Roinne Turasóireachta, Cultúir, Ealaíon, Gaeltachta, Spóirt agus na Meán leis an Aire Stáit, an Teachta O’Donovan.
Beidh an chéad chruinniú eile den chomhchoiste ar siúl an tseachtain seo chugainn, an 8 Márta ar 2.30 p.m. i seomra coiste 4, nuair a phléifear na hábhair seo a leanas agus b'fhéidir go mbeadh spéis ag ár n-aíonna iontu: an córas sláinte agus an gá éigeandáil náisiúnta a fhógairt; neodracht na hÉireann, fírinne nó cur i gcéill; athrú aeráide agus an bhfuilimid ró-leithleach chun é a chur i gcrích. Beidh deichniúr daltaí ó cheithre scoil ag freastal chun an chaint a thabhairt ar na hábhair sin. Beidh siad ag teacht ó Choláiste Oiriall i Muineacháin; ó Ghaelcholáiste Luimnigh; ó Ghaelcholáiste na Mara i gContae Chill Mhantáin; agus ó Scoil Ghramadaí Naomh Iósaef, an Domhnach Mór, Contae Thír Eoghain, áit a bhfuil sruth Gaeilge ann. Beidh siadsan ós ár gcomhair an lá sin agus tá súil agam go mbeidh níos mó Teachtaí Dála agus Seanadóirí i láthair linn chun fáilte a chur rompu. Is léiriú é sin gur féidir le daltaí meánscoile plé a dhéanamh, mar go ndearna siad plé an-mhaith anuraidh agus roimhe sin, ar ábhair difriúla seachas an Ghaeilge féin.
Tá cruinniú an chomhchoiste curtha ar athló anois go dtí 2.30 p.m an tseachtain seo chugainn agus, mar a dúirt mé, tá cruinniú den roghchoiste um thráthnóna ar siúl ar 4 p.m.