Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the members and witnesses for attending and they are all very welcome. On behalf of the committee, first and foremost, I welcome from the Department of the Taoiseach Ms Émer Deane, assistant secretary general in the British and Northern Ireland affairs division and shared island unit and Mr. Eoghan Duffy, principal officer in the shared island unit. I thank them both for taking the time to meet us this morning.

The format of the meeting is that I will invite Ms Deane to make an opening statement and this will be followed by questions from members of the committee. Each member has a five-minute slot in which to ask questions and for the witnesses to respond. We dealt with this earlier in private session and there will be flexibility on this.

Before we begin, I remind members of the constitutional requirement that in order to participate in public meetings, members must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex. Members of the committee attending remotely must do so from within the precincts of Leinster House. This is due to the constitutional requirement that in order to participate in public meetings, members must be physically present within the confines of the place where Parliament has chosen to sit. In this regard, I ask members partaking via MS Teams that, prior to making their contribution to the meeting, they confirm they are on the grounds of Leinster House.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, I will direct them to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative they comply with any such direction. As the witnesses are probably aware, the committee will publish the opening statement on its website following this meeting. MPs participating in this committee session from a jurisdiction outside of the State are advised they should also be mindful of their domestic law and how it may apply to their participation in proceedings.

I will shortly call on Ms Deane, who I understand is no stranger to the committee from previous times. It is a pleasure to have her here and I thank her for her time. Her opening remarks have been circulated to the committee and I invite her to make them now.

Ms Émer Deane:

I welcome this opportunity to meet the committee today to provide an update on implementation of the Government's shared island initiative. This is our first opportunity to present to the committee in this Dáil term and I look forward to our continued engagement in the time ahead. As the Cathaoirleach said, I have responsibility at assistant secretary general level in the Department of the Taoiseach for the shared island unit, and I am joined by Eoghan Duffy, principal officer in the unit.

The shared island initiative is a whole-of-government policy to put a sustained strategic focus on the future of the whole island and on how to build a reconciled future together. At the shared island forum event held at Dublin Castle on 10 April, the Taoiseach launched a new phase of the initiative. He set out the Government's all-island investment priorities and objectives, to be resourced by an additional €1 billion to 2035, as provided for in the programme for Government. In doing so, he recalled how the Good Friday Agreement provides the democratic framework and the values for this work. He defined as a goal for the initiative in the time ahead to foster connections in every domain, to bring down barriers and fears, and to support new shared island endeavours that will involve and benefit every town and community throughout the island.

I will now provide a brief overview of the unit's work in supporting the implementation of the Government's agenda in the three related areas of the initiative. These are building a shared island, a research programme on understanding the island and fostering island-wide dialogue. In terms of building a shared island, the programme for Government introduced targets for all Departments to bring forward new project proposals to realise the aims and objectives of the shared island initiative. The national development plan review published on 22 July includes a specific chapter on the shared island, including how the shared island initiative and our investment will continue to contribute to the Government's overall public investment objectives, for instance, in transport, energy, climate action and biodiversity conservation, and competitiveness.

The national development plan also noted where shared island initiative delivery to date has already taken place. This includes the commencement in 2024 of construction of the Narrow Water Bridge, the completion last year of phase 2 of the Ulster Canal, agreement to fund a teaching building as part of the expansion of Ulster University's Derry campus, which has progressed to planning, the introduction of a new hourly-frequency rail service between Belfast and Dublin, which has been in place since last October, the operation of a new enterprise scheme promoting women's entrepreneurship, developing all-island clusters, investing in sustainability action by firms, and a brand collaboration and marketing initiative by tourism agencies to grow tourism in the north west and the north coast region.

Looking ahead, specific investment objectives and commitments set by Government, through the programme for Government and national development plan relevant to the shared island initiative, include working with the Executive to deliver the A5 road upgrade, establishing air connectivity between Dublin and Derry, developing the vision set out in the all-island rail review, deepening collaboration between healthcare systems on the island, developing the all-island skills agenda, fostering further collaboration between start-ups and businesses and working with local authorities as we advance these projects on an all Ireland basis.

The shared island initiative projects are led by Ministers and their Departments and agencies, working with their Northern Ireland or UK counterparts. Funding to deliver projects is and will continue to be drawn from a range of Government sources, with the shared island fund providing additionality to drive and enable all-island reach and investment. The Government's all-island partnership approach is an important feature of delivering projects and programmes. As the Taoiseach said in April, the Government's strengthened partnership with the UK Government and positive engagement with the Northern Ireland Executive, including through the North-South Ministerial Council, now provides the most promising context we have had for years to harness what North-South and east-west partnerships can deliver.

I want to acknowledge the remit and long-standing work of the committee to develop the core relationships of the Good Friday Agreement and the sustained engagement to secure progress on many of the projects and programmes that the shared island initiative has now delivered or which are being progressed through the initiative.

In terms of specific new actions this year, the Government, on 25 February, decided on and announced over €50 million in allocations. These were for sustainable tourism projects, which include amenity development and the promotion of Carlingford Lough, Cuilcagh Lakelands UNESCO geopark and the Slieve Beagh area, to be delivered by tourism agencies and local authorities North and South and overseen by the Minister for Enterprise, Tourism and Employment and his Northern counterpart. Arts and cultural heritage funding will include new public facing programmes to deepen cultural co-operation and exchanges North-South and east-west, which will be brought forward shortly by the Minister for Culture, Communications and Sport and the Minister for Rural and Community Development and the Gaeltacht, in co-ordination with Northern Ireland and UK counterparts.

The Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade and his Department are continuing the Shared Island civic society fund, with increased resources to support stronger island-wide societal connections. The National Parks and Wildlife Service, NPWS, is working with the Northern Ireland Environment Agency to develop and take forward a new biodiversity programme, including building on successful Natura communities projects in the north west to deliver and foster community led action on nature restoration across the island.

In recent weeks, a number of existing shared island funded projects and programmes have made significant announcements on progress. On 11 August, the Taoiseach and Minister for further and higher education announced the award of funding by the Higher Education Authority, HEA, to four major cross-Border research collaborations through the North-South research programme. On 3 September, the Taoiseach and Ministers for agriculture North and South announced funding awards under the shared island bioeconomy programme for two demonstration projects, one led from Tyrone on bio-based fertiliser products and one led from Meath on converting marine bioproducts to high-value ingredients. On 12 September, the Carlingford Lough greenway was officially opened, delivered with funding through the EU INTERREG programme, the Department for Infrastructure in the North, the Department of Transport and the shared island fund.

Before concluding, there are two aspects of the unit's work on which I would like to take this opportunity to briefly update members of the committee. The first is to recall that research is a core part of the initiative. On 28 April, the Taoiseach launched an overarching report on the unit's joint research programme with the ESRI, which comprises 16 reports to date. The research programme aims to provide a stronger evidence base and deeper analysis of current and potential linkages across the island of Ireland in a range of economic, social and environmental domains. The unit and the ESRI work to support dissemination and engagement with research outputs, including through online and in person events North and South. This will be an even stronger focus in the time ahead.

Other reports published under the research programme this year have included those examining tackling child poverty, the drivers of income inequality and an economic overview of the island.

On 28 April, the Taoiseach also announced a new phase of unit's research programme with the ESRI with a focus on strategic policy and co-operation considerations for both jurisdictions. There will be a focus on some wider societal concerns that have tended to be less prominent in cross-Border co-operation agendas. Research is now under way, to be published later this year or next, on tackling gender-based violence, on disability, on further education pathways and a new annual economic survey of the island as a whole. With the agreement of the Cathaoirleach, I propose that the ESRI and the unit would continue to send these reports to the committee through him as was the practice previously.

Finally, all of the co-operation and research activity of the initiative is informed by the unit's work in fostering inclusive civic dialogue by all communities and traditions on the island to build consensus around a shared future. This work has taken many different forms. It has included 16 ministerial-led dialogues, the work of the shared island youth forum, civil society-led projects supported through the civic society fund, and the online Future Takes discussion series in 2024, highlights from which were viewed over 1 million times. I am aware and grateful that a number of current and former members of this committee have spoken at and attended a number of these dialogue events.

On 10 April, the Taoiseach also announced a major new shared home place programme as part of the initiative which will commence later this year. This will be open to people from every corner of the island to build new connections and consensus on our place-based heritage. The programme will engage with the contributions of Irish, Anglo-Irish and Ulster-Scots traditions across the island of Ireland, recognising how these are an integral part of the heritage of every county and crucial to building consensus on a shared future.

The shared home place programme will also recognise and include the greater ethnic and cultural diversity of this island and, importantly, will engage with the experiences and perspectives of this island's diaspora in Britain, the United States and further afield. The unit is currently working intensively with Departments and agencies on the overall approach to this new cross-government dimension of the initiative. The programme will be announced and commenced by the Taoiseach later this year.

I thank committee members for their time and ongoing interest in the work. I am happy to answer any questions.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Ms Deane for her very comprehensive overview. We appreciate that. For new members of this committee it was essential for us that we would hear from the shared island initiative, and see what is being done and understand the various elements of that very important funding mechanism.

At the outset I would like to highlight some of the points mentioned, particularly around the North-South Ministerial Council and the engagement with the Executive. All of that is very instrumental in the work from Government. From this committee's perspective, the funding that has gone into all the various different areas has not only been welcome but is also good for this committee to hear and delve into, which is what we hope to do today. With that, as per our speaking rota, Deputy Moynihan will speak first. I see that Mr. Cathal Mallaghan MP is online and I can see that his hand is up. He will be called as per the speaking rota. I do not know if Mr. Mallaghan can see us but we can see him. I wish to make him aware that there is a slight technical glitch and, hopefully, it will be resolved.

I call Deputy Moynihan, please.

Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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Gabhaim buíochas ag Émer agus Eoghan as ucht a bheith linn ar maidin.

I very much welcome this report. When we hear the shared island discussed in the public sphere we do not have a full understanding of its various aspects. The infrastructural piece is probably the most visible to a lot of people but the understanding through research and the dialogue in civic society are the two pieces that are equally as important towards underpinning that overall agenda. I commend Ms Deane for bringing a very welcome focus on those today.

I want to run through a few bits and pieces, if that is all right, and maybe at the end the witnesses could give me their view on it. As my background is in research I am very much interested in what the ESRI has been doing and I have a general question on the scope of research. Is there an equivalent body to the ESRI in Northern Ireland with which the ESRI engages? It is very welcome that the shared island unit is engaging with the ESRI here. However, to build a shared understanding, and a shared research understanding, it would be useful to know if there is a counterpoint or counter-balance to the ESRI in Northern Ireland to provide a full buy-in on the shared island agenda from a research point of view.

I welcome that an economic overview of the whole island is part of the research programme. One area of particular interest to me is the all-island labour market, not just with regards to the barriers that exist to a full and seamless market, but also in terms of the overall skills agenda. There is a really good piece for us here in terms of where our comparative advantages exist as an island and how we make sure we have the skills agenda that corresponds to that. I am interested in hearing Ms Deane's thoughts on how we can advance and drive that forward.

I read Ms Deane’s statement and some previous material. Something I am interested in and have also raised with the Taoiseach in the Dáil is sport and grassroots sports engagement. Ireland is unique in that the majority of sporting codes operate on all-island basis. That is a natural place for shared island work to take place. I would love Ms Deane to expand on what work has been done with national governing bodies across the island but also on grassroots engagement.

I am very supportive of the focus the shared island unit has on civic society links. One of the underused aspects of the Good Friday Agreement is the civic forum. It would have been a great vehicle for increasing and improving an engagement with civic society in Northern Ireland. I am glad to see that is a focus of the Government going forward. I would like the witnesses’ views on the desired outcomes. What does good look like with regard to the overall fund?

The Chair mentioned the links between the work in the North South Ministerial Council. Will Ms Deane elaborate on the 16 different ministerial dialogue events. What are the key outcomes for those and how do they tie into all of this stuff? I see all this good research. I see the high-level political buy-in. I see the institutional framework there. To the public looking in on this, it is not necessarily clear how all that stuff knits together. I can see that all the ingredients are there but how do we get to the outcome of it as well?

The infrastructural progress that has been made is documented. That is very welcome and is key to it. It is all leading in particular to building Derry up as an economic and social hub for the north-west. It is also the realisation of a lot of the things we want to achieve around the all-island labour market, around being a skills-focused economy and so on. Derry is a really good example of how we do that. I thank the witnesses for their time and their report.

Ms Émer Deane:

I thank the Deputy. In terms of research, there is no equivalent to the ESRI in Northern Ireland. However, in all the research that we do with the ESRI, it has northern partnerships. Researchers or institutions in the North will always be involved in each piece of research.

The Deputy mentioned the all-island labour market, which is very important. There was a cross-Border conference on this last week. We are very aware of the issues around this in terms of information, taxation and all of the other obstacles. He also referred to the skills part. Skills and developing the all-island labour market is a focus of the EU PEACE funding, and very significant funding was announced recently in that regard. It will begin to be rolled out in 2026. In addition, the Labour Employer Economic Forum, which the Taoiseach chairs, also has a shared island subgroup that looks specifically at the all-island labour market and trying to work through those knotty issues.

I mentioned that we are in a better dispensation in terms of our relations with the UK Government and the Northern Ireland Executive. These kind of taxation issues really are bilateral issues where you need to have that co-operation and interest on the other side to find a resolution that works for people moving in both directions.

On sport, it is important to note that our all-island sporting environment is incredibly healthy, as the Deputy said. Some of what we want to do is look at how we can leverage some of the all-island sports and events to create greater connections across the island. At the same time, we do not want to displace any funding that sport has. From the shared island unit perspective, it is always about additionality and looking at what can we do that the sporting bodies would not be doing if it was not for us. The one sporting project we have at the moment is Casement Park. We are just waiting for the go-ahead from the Northern Ireland Executive and the GAA on that.

The Deputy mentioned the civic forum, which the Northern Ireland Executive has confirmed it will establish.

This is obviously welcome as it was also a commitment in the programme for Government to see that happen. On that, what we have been moving towards with the civic society fund is trying to have more strategic partnerships between civic society groups in the South and in the North. For instance, the National Women's Council now has an all-island women's council where it is working together, which it would not have been able to do without shared island funding. That is the kind of model, to bring those umbrella groups operating in this jurisdiction and encourage and support partnerships with entities in the North.

Mr. Duffy may wish to comment on the dialogue and how that fed into our work on the research and other programme areas.

Mr. Eoghan Duffy:

That connection between dialogue, research and the investment and co-operation agenda is really fundamental to how the work is being progressed. To give an example on education, there was a dialogue held with the Minister for education at the time on where the opportunities would be to do more in the sector in 2021. That was followed up by a piece of research by the ESRI that we commissioned in 2022 which looked at education outcomes across all levels of education, North and South. That fed into discussions between the two education Departments on where they could practically do more, which in 2024 resulted in what is called the shared island education scheme, which involves three areas of co-operation between the two education Departments. That was approved by Ministers North and South and was noted and welcomed at the North-South Ministerial Council and now that programme is under way. To get that connection between stakeholder engagement, underpinning of research and then a political decision to co-operate significantly in new areas is-----

Shane Moynihan (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
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It is sort of the full circle, then. It starts off with ministerial dialogue, goes through the research funnel and then ends up as a political priority at the NSMC or the Executive.

Mr. Eoghan Duffy:

Yes. Obviously that is not the path in every case but trying to do it like that is the purpose. If you look at the areas that are commissioned for the year ahead with the ESRI, it is focusing on gender-based violence, disability and further education. Again, they are all areas that have a lot of potential. There is substantial co-operation in some respects but scope to do more and that is why it is important to get the institute to look at that and see where we can go from there.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Maxwell is next with seven minutes.

David Maxwell (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The shared island unit has been transformational in how it is dealing with matters cross-Border and the projects that are there. There is the Narrow Water Bridge, the Ulster Canal, which is local to me, and the new marina. Linking up to the section at Castlesaunderson will be the next phase. The money for the university in Derry is welcome for the north west. I used the hourly train service this morning. It is busy. You can physically see the number of people who are using it now because of the frequency. It shows rail will work when there is a frequent service. It is at a particular price point.

Tourism is a big thing. There is Cuilcagh and Slieve Beagh, which is an untapped area. It borders Monaghan, Tyrone and Fermanagh. It is something that can be very much improved. The A5 needs to be delivered. The upgrade from Aughnacloy to Derry and Letterkenny will open up the north west. It is needed but the section from Aughnacloy back to Ardee needs to be looked at. We do not want people to leave Dublin, get to Ardee, go back onto secondary roads and then rejoin a motorway at Aughnacloy. We need that continuity. That is something we need to look at.

On sport, Casement Park is a big issue. There is St. Tiernach's Park in Clones. It is a cross-Border issue. There is a new civic and sporting aspect with the GAA. The local club in Clones , Monaghan GAA and Monaghan County Council are coming together. It is something I may be seeking to push going forward. It is a cross-Border project - it sits on the Border - so it is something that would fall under the shared island unit.

We had a meeting with Trade NI about a week or ten days ago. It was an informal meeting but we learned that more is bringing us together than dividing us when it comes to manufacturing, retail and tourism. As Deputy Moynihan said, we can see the physical aspects in the shape of the Narrow Water Bridge and Clones Marina and everything else, and that is great, but it is the work underneath that level and behind the scenes that is bringing people together.

The question from Deputy Moynihan on cross-Border transnational workers was answered. We have a lot of people coming into County Monaghan from Northern Ireland with their skill sets and being hired. It is the same in counties Louth, Cavan and everywhere else. People from the South go into the North with their skill sets as well. Nobody really passed any remarks until Covid came. That threw up the point made by people that they had worked in Northern Ireland all their lives but were not entitled to the Covid payment in the South, or vice versa. We get people coming into my office, especially now, who have worked in Northern Ireland and had a doctor there. Now they have retired, they cannot get a doctor south of the Border because they have never had one here. These are the sorts of things that arise. I know it is not for the shared island unit but it is something we need to look at in the context of workers' rights. Many more people have been crossing the Border since the Good Friday Agreement. They are working and travelling back and forth.

There is plenty of work to be done. As I said, the projects we can see, such as the Narrow Water Bridge, etc., are great and everything, but people do not see the work done underneath that layer. It will be critically important to build trust going forward and to bring the island's economies together to work for everybody. I have no real question because I think most of them were answered.

Ms Émer Deane:

I thank the Deputy. Making the island more prosperous is absolutely one of our headline objectives. It is not just about being connected and sustainable but also more prosperous. Obviously, we are seeing a huge uptick in cross-Border trade in all the areas referred to by the Deputy. From the shared island perspective, we have had quite a bit of involvement in tourism projects. I mentioned the projects agreed by the Government in February 2025 in those three Border regions of Cuilcagh, Sliabh Beagh and Carlingford Lough. Those are under development now between the tourism agencies and the local authorities. We would expect those to go live by next year and that we would begin to see some of the programming and development of the amenities under way. It is exciting. It builds on a project we did before in the tourism space in the north west connecting the Wild Atlantic Way to the Causeway Coastal Route to try to get visitor numbers up, get longer stays and have signage to connect those tourists who come with other areas. Derry is obviously a meeting point between those two things. This programme is now rolling out. It is also giving money to small businesses to develop their offerings to the tourism industry. We are looking forward to the tourism agencies coming forward with something of the same scale and impact for the Border region now through the new programmes.

David Maxwell (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I thank Ms Deane.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy Maxwell. I call Senator Murphy.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Fein)
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I thank the witnesses for the presentation. I agree with a lot of the points raised already. I do not have the time to go back into some of them. To make a quick point on the tourism sharing of that project on the north coast and the Wild Atlantic Way, a discussion is under way about tourism branding across the island that I hope will move forward at pace because it will make a significant impact.

I have an observation about the two areas outlined as priorities. One is to put a sustained strategic focus on the future of the whole island and the other to build a reconciled future together. Both are extremely important areas of work. Regarding funding and some of the areas outlined, it seems the unit is more active in the latter context concerned with the reconciliation work. As I said, that is important. The national development plan from the Government, though, seems to contain a lot more strategic work. I think there is an opportunity for the shared island unit to do more in that area. The Taoiseach was in front of the finance committee some months ago.

I asked him some questions about more strategic use in terms of where the island is going and that the long-term future of the island be underpinned by investment through the shared island fund. He agreed with that. I would, therefore, like to see more projects in that space, such as the funding of Magee College and the train services others have mentioned. These are extremely important, as are the entrepreneur programmes. They are all important but there is much work to be done, particularly in areas such as health. There is an actual impact of a disjoint in health services North and South. I had one particular case in my own area in County Armagh where a woman had to travel to London for cancer treatments, which meant three weeks' absence from a young family. The same treatment was available at St. James's Hospital in Dublin, which is probably an hour and ten minutes from her house. She unfortunately died in England in the absence of her family during one of the treatment processes. The family have been distraught by the fact that she had to undergo a traumatic journey by plane or boat to get to a service that was available within an hour's drive from her house. More work could be done in relation to the health aspect of that. I know there is dialogue between the trusts in the North and the health authorities in the South, but that could be more focused.

The research is really excellent, and Ms Deane has described where it has been underpinned and come out the other side in terms of a joint policy. We need to see more of that otherwise we just get documents that sit on a shelf. As excellent as they are, they become areas more of academic interest than practical working interest. Particularly in areas like health, we would need to see that type of work being done. There has not been the full spend in a number of years in relation to that. I would be interested to know why that is. Some of these infrastructure projects and some of these other projects the unit is involved in might have longer running periods than otherwise were anticipated but does that leave her more scope in some of the areas I have been suggesting for a more strategic focus into things like the economy, shared services, barriers to cross-Border mobility as Deputy Maxwell raised, and people who have to work North to South and South to North? Is there more that can be done in that area? Those are just some of the questions. The work that has been done to date is excellent but I would like to see more emphasis on the strategic focus into the future in terms of the fund.

Ms Émer Deane:

I thank the Senator. In terms of that strategic focus, the Taoiseach wrote to all Ministers in February and asked each Minister to come forward with a new proposal that fits both with the overall strategic objectives of the Government and the shared islands initiative. That work is under way whereby Ministers are identifying projects. Therefore, absolutely everything we do needs to meet the overall strategic aims of the island. For instance, in terms of transport, energy and climate action, we are looking to see where there is additionality that can come through the shared island fund be that in rail, air connectivity or whatever the space is. Absolutely, we want to make sure it is integrated with overall Government priorities and that it is strategic, impactful and not sort of nice to do or on its own, but central to the national development plan. That is where it sits. It is part of the national development plan and will move forward in that way. In terms of funding and if there is money that is not spent, it is a ring-fenced €2 billion out to 2035. By 2035, €2 billion will have been spent specifically on shared island projects. There is great assurance there that it will be spent in its totality whatever way it is profiled in the years between now and then.

On the research, absolutely, we do not want the research to sit on a shelf. That was why the Taoiseach decided to look at the 16 reports that have been done already to bring them together into one overview to make sure we are actually seeing again what are the strategic objectives, what the overall picture is and how this can inform what we are doing across the initiative. Additionally, that is why the Taoiseach suggested that on an annual basis we will now do an economic survey of the island as a whole. These are again trying to get the research into spaces where it will be more useful to policymakers North and South and across the island.

On health, absolutely, it is an area of huge potential. I am aware of the case to which the Senator referred. I think it relates to CAR T-cell therapies.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Fein)
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Yes.

Ms Émer Deane:

The two Ministers with responsibility for health are working very closely together to try to identify specific specialist services that can be carried out better by doing them on an all-island basis.

Members know there are two areas, cancer and paediatrics, where there is already good work being done. It is a question of how to build those out so we get more into specialist areas and rare diseases, and all the other things that could be done better together. We are obviously mindful, with the children's hospital coming online in this jurisdiction and a new children's hospital being built in Belfast, that strategic planning is really important. It is under way and I think the health Ministers will meet again in November.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Fein)
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There is the cancer treatment service in Altnagelvin and the paediatric service in Dublin. Those have been on the go for between ten and 15 years and we have not seen development coming behind that. There is an urgency when people's health is involved. I get that it is sometimes hard to move systems together, but more urgency in this area would serve all people of the island well.

Patricia Stephenson (Social Democrats)
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I thank the witnesses for their presentation. The work the shared island fund has been doing is great. I think Deputy Maxwell spoke about the importance of building trust and how beyond these spaces and those of policymakers, we can get the general public, and particularly people who are not living in areas impacted and improved by the infrastructure projects, to understand what the fund is doing to bring people together. Ms Deane spoke in her statement or the report she shared about how over 4,000 people have participated in the various dialogues. Are there plans to scale them up for people beyond the usual suspects like civil society groups? I know LGBT Ireland has participated in all-island forums. I am thinking of people outside of those traditional spaces, so we are creating more space for "normal people", for want of a better term. Having that space for dialogue, meeting and community is an important piece to break down barriers and the othering that we sometimes can see across the island.

That links a little to the research. I love what I hear about making the research more tangible. However, I also wonder, beyond policymakers, about bringing those research reports back to affected communities. I think the Mind the Gap disability report was funded by the shared island civic forum. That was about workability and employment support programmes. It was a brilliant report. Bringing reports like that back to disability rights groups across the island and creating more spaces for those groups to get together and strategise would be interesting.

I am delighted to hear about the gender-based violence report. The work the National Women's Council does is fantastic, but how do we bring that back to women's groups beyond the larger national level groups? Bringing it back to communities would be important, as would using dialogues and spaces to present those reports back to communities to make it more interactive and action plan based. As well as having all the reports compiled together for policymakers, we should bring it back to communities so people feel that the reports are about and for them and that they can use them.

I do not know if the witnesses are familiar with the Mind the Gap report. I know we have talked about employment and Deputy Moynihan spoke about employment in general. I am particularly interested in disability employment and supportive employment programmes, and if there is scope for doing an all-island pilot on supportive employment for disability. It is a challenge. A lot of people with disabilities of different types are out of work long term. I know that at one stage the North had a co-ordinator who supported different disability rights organisations to apply for grants and funding for supported employment. It is something we do not have down here. I do not think we have ever had it. Is there anything in the pipeline around that? There were references to disability but I am wondering in particular about supported employment.

Those are most of my questions. I would love to see those research dialogues being scaled up and made more tangible for people outside of the policy spaces.

Ms Émer Deane:

I will answer on the dialogue and ask Mr. Duffy to pick up on the research points. The aim is absolutely to bring dialogue to a new level. The Taoiseach announced the new shared home place initiative, which will be launched this year. That is precisely to bring the conversation around the island regarding how each part of this island contributes to the whole of the island and has all these different strands that feed into making our communities the rich home places they are for all of us.

This is to bring that dialogue to every county on the island. We will work through heritage officers, the Heritage Council, libraries, museums and community groups. We will look at natural heritage, built heritage, communities, lives and livelihoods. It is to make people realise the connection between the local and the island as a whole. We hope this will be transformational in widening out the conversation and the civic dialogue. The Taoiseach will be announcing it in November. We expect the programme to go live in 2026.

Mr. Eoghan Duffy:

I thank the Senator. On employment and disability, as she said, there was the Mind the Gap report, which was supported through the civic society fund and the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. That was published. It was a substantive piece of work. There was also resourcing for a big conference held in Dundalk. That was attended by our Department of Social Protection along with many stakeholders and civil society groups. Bringing it forward also involves those two levels. There is certainly opportunity for civil society to access the civic society fund to do very practical things around connecting, advocacy, support services and learning. There is then the same opportunity for Departments to interact and to see what they already do in this space and what they can do more of. It may not all be questions of resourcing. It might be about co-operation, linking services and so on. It is about getting Departments to look at that in the round. The Department of Social Protection is aware of that report. That is the kind of conversation we are having with all Departments all of the time. We ask them how they can take this on board and, as Ms Deane said, how they can mainstream it into the planning of services from the start.

It is very much the same with regard to gender-based violence. The Senator mentioned the National Women's Council of Ireland, which has formed an all-island women's forum over a number of years. That has been supported through the civic society fund. That forum published a report on gender-based violence, which was supported by the two justice Ministers last year. That work directly informed the sense that a full scoping of the incidence of and policy responses to gender-based violence, North and South, is timely and needed. It is recognised that there is scope to do more with what is obviously an island-wide problem. There is ESRI research building on what the NWCI did. We had interaction with civil society groups, North and South, on that research. We will continue to do that. The research will continue to talk to them directly. It is not just desk work. It involves talking to the stakeholders to produce something that Ministers, North and South, can engage with to see what could practically follow.

Patricia Stephenson (Social Democrats)
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I will ask about another matter in my last few seconds. We talked about language. We have seen incidents of the Executive in the North blocking funding for the Irish language. What are the engagements with the shared island unit like regarding those trickier issues where it is committed to funding a certain thing but it is not being seen? Casement Park was another high-profile example of that. How do those engagements work? What are the blockages?

Ms Émer Deane:

The specific issue regarding the foras relates to the formal structure of how the North-South bodies are funded. There is a ratio between North and South, which is why there is a difficulty regarding the overall funding for the foras. The two Ministers are continuing to work through that. However, that does not mean there are no other ways to support the Irish language and, indeed, Ulster Scots culture. We are already working in that space. Part of the new arts and heritage programming funding announced this year will go to the Irish language, including in Northern Ireland. The Minister, Deputy Calleary, is currently working on a capital investment programme through an ciste infheistíochta in the North. This will allow for further investment in the Irish language North of the Border and across the island as a whole. Everything we do in the shared island unit is only one part of North-South co-operation. There are other areas that operate formally through the North-South Ministerial Council. That is where the foras piece fits.

Mr. Cathal Mallaghan:

I will talk about a few issues but first I welcome the work the shared island unit has been doing to date. One of its pillars is environmental issues. The biggest environmental catastrophe happening on the island of Ireland today is in Lough Neagh.

The Executive has agreed the Lough Neagh action plan consisting of 37 actions, of which 14 have been completed so far. The Minister is currently working on a shoestring. He does not have enough money to fulfil all the commitments of that plan. There is an opportunity for the shared island unit to shore that up because 40% of the drinking water that the people in the North use comes from Lough Neagh. As well as that the tributaries of the Lough Neagh delta where all the water and nutrients come from not only come from the Six Counties in the North but also from County Monaghan so there is a bit of a responsibility there.

The problems that Lough Neagh has are based around the overloading of nutrients into the water stream, climate change and the presence of Zebra mussels. The big problem with nutrients is that so many phosphates are going into the water that it creates a blue and green algae bloom whenever the weather heats up in summertime. I am sure that all the members have seen the terrible images on television or the Internet over the past number of months. The weather is starting to cool so the algal bloom is starting to disperse. It is important that we keep this issue on our agenda on a year-round basis because if we only leave it until July and August, nothing will be done to fix it. Continuous funding is required to resolve it and to work with all the groups around the lough, including farmers and landowners, to stop this excess nutrient from entering the water.

We also need to have a conversation on stopping phosphorus from getting into the island in the first place and stopping it at source. This relates to the importation of all the grains for feed sources. It would be really good to examine a programme to diversify farmers from some type of livestock farming to arable crops.

On a wider issue, Lough Neagh does not benefit from being designated by Waterways Ireland. That means the largest water mass on this island is not navigable and is not part of that whole scheme. That is something we should work towards as well.

As I have the committee's attention, I want to raise the issue of the A5. It is a very important road for us in this part of the North. It is also the most dangerous road on these islands. As members will be all aware, the A5 project has been held up through court issues in trying to make progress in finding a way forward to get a part of the road built. I want to make the members aware that while the appeal is being prepared, legislative changes are required and they are in process. I thank the shared island fund for its continued support for these large infrastructural projects. They are vitally important for shortening journey times across this island from Donegal to Dublin and will save people's lives because the A5 has become so treacherous.

Ms Émer Deane:

On Lough Neagh, the shared island initiative is funding research by the Co-Centre for Climate + Biodiversity + Water, which is doing work specifically on the Lough Neagh issue. It is worth also mentioning the bioeconomy demonstrators that were announced last month and are going live. One of the demonstrators is based in County Tyrone. It will look specifically at the challenge of nutrients in the soil and how to create a circular economy in the dairy and beef sectors to reduce the nutrients in the soil.

Lough Neagh was discussed at a meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council almost a year ago. Following that, there has been ongoing engagement between the Minister for housing who has responsibility for water-based management and his counterpart in Northern Ireland. Good work is being done there, given that one of the tributaries into Lough Neagh comes from County Monaghan. Very good ongoing work is being done between the two Departments so Lough Neagh is very much on our radar.

I wish to confirm, as the Taoiseach has done, that the Government's commitment to the A5 remains. We await the outcome of the judicial process, which I understand is likely to be before the end of this year.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Does Mr. Mallaghan have anything else to add?

Mr. Cathal Mallaghan:

No, that is great. Thank you very much.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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We will move to the next speaker, Deputy Crowe.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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It is back to the health issue and I welcome all the initiatives. When I was Chair of the health committee in the last Dáil term, we visited some of the facilities and were really impressed with Altnagelvin and the fact that if someone has a heart attack, they can go within that particular timespan in that area and, again, we looked at the cancer treatment and so on. One of the things that came out of it, which seemed a bit unusual, was that for follow-up treatments, a lot of people were passing the hospital and going to Sligo or somewhere else in relation to it. Again, this is one of the things that needs to be looked at. We also looked at Daisy Hill, where they said that because of funding issues and so on, theatre time that was available. It just seems that Daisy Hill, because it is located in a Border region, that would be ideal for possible development in relation to it and maybe that is something the shared island unit could look at.

I want to focus this morning on one issue. There was a group of families visiting the Dáil just before the recess and the young boys had DMD, Duchenne muscular dystrophy. They said the drug that is a game-changer for them and slows down the disorder is not currently available in the South of Ireland. It has been cleared at European level and is available in the North, but the problem is that the providers in the North do not have the funding to roll it out. A couple of hundred kids on the island of Ireland are affected by this. I raised it with the Tánaiste in the Dáil and he raised it at a side meeting with the Ministers north and south. It just seems like an ideal issue for the shared island unit. We have the funding and the North does not, while we have access to the drug and they do not. It is an urgent issue for these children. It is a game-changer for them and buys them time. The disease itself is wasting and this drug, which is available, can slow it down.

This is a cry for help for all those families. I would appreciate it if the witnesses could go back to the Minister and see if there is a possibility there. I am not sure if it is on the unit's agenda but it just seems a practical fit for the Department and the shared funding. I would appreciate if the witnesses had any update on that.

Ms Émer Deane:

I thank the Deputy for that. Healthcare, as he said, is an area where we really want to see collaboration deepened and the Department is working with its counterparts in Northern Ireland to try to prioritise what areas it sees as having the most potential. It is very much in those specialist services, rare diseases and cancer care that we expect there will be better opportunities to provide better care across the island, given the scale and the number of patients on both sides of the Border.

Senator Murphy mentioned that cardiac care at Altnagelvin has been there for a long time. That is true but there are opportunities to widen out within those two areas of paediatrics and cancer, both in those places and more generally, to develop a more cohesive and strategic all-island care in those areas. That is the work the Department of Health is undergoing with its counterparts in the North with a view to identifying priorities. Of course, they are the experts and we will be led by them to identify what works because they know the bigger picture, the priorities and where the co-operation will work in what can be a very technical field.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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On the same issue of DMD, families said they were getting treatment in Newcastle, for instance, and again, because of Brexit, that was all changing. The facility in Newcastle is no longer open to new patients in relation to that. As I said, it just seems to be obvious thing. It is an interim solution; it is not going to solve the problems for these families.

The ideal would be if it was rolled out in the South. It seems like the perfect fit and I would appreciate if the unit could follow up on it with its contacts.

Finally, we agreed before the meeting that the committee would look at health. Would it be the unit that we would give that report on shared funding and shared island stuff to or would it be the Department or what way does it work?

Ms Émer Deane:

Ministers and their Departments lead on shared island projects and programmes. We help them to design them but when it comes to implementation the Departments themselves are responsible for that and for the relationship with the Northern Ireland counterparts and how they profile it and programme it over years. It would certainly be the Department of Health that would have that detail and be able to explain the work it is doing in that area.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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I thank Ms Deane.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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I thank Ms Deane for her opening statement. I have gone through it and was watching from the office. I commend the work of the shared island unit but there is an opportunity to do much more, particularly in terms of the programme for Government where the Taoiseach and the Government have cited a whole-of-government approach, where each of the committees are tasked with action plans and so on. I would like that expanded. My concern is that there are so many announcements but when I look at the figures they do not match them. What funds are open right now for people to submit applications within the shared island unit? I have a number of questions but I would like a response on that one first.

Ms Émer Deane:

The shared island unit does not have an open fund. The model is that the Government makes decisions to fund specific programmes or projects and that programme or project is taken forward by the relevant Minister working with his or her counterpart in the North.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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I might give an example. If there was a community education project in east Belfast that wants source funding, where would it source funding from? It sees this announcement of €1 billion out to 2032.

Ms Émer Deane:

It is likely that an organisation like that would be eligible to apply to the civic society fund, which is run by the Department of foreign affairs and the Tánaiste’s Department. It puts out calls, I think on an annual basis, and to date it has funded 107 different organisations. Under the shared island umbrella there are programmes like the civic society fund or the community climate action programme or the EV charging points where specific Departments are running funding calls at specific times.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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Where do the applications go then? They do not go to the shared island unit -----

Ms Émer Deane:

No.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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They go further. That is fine.

Ms Émer Deane:

That information is on gov.ie under the shared island page. Anything that is open will be flagged there.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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What role can the shared island unit play in further and higher education? I welcome the investment in Magee University but students who have top marks, four A* grades, cannot get college places here. I have a particular situation with a family where both students got top marks. The sister was already going to Trinity College. They were accepted for the scéim, the Gaelige and all of that, within Trinity College but then they did not get a place. Part of the reason is that there is a breakdown between the information available in the second level schools in the North and the universities. Can the shared island unit play a role there in trying to fill that gap, perhaps by having information days at a very early stage in the school year to ensure that students and families are fully aware of what they need to do? There is a real unfairness there. I want to commend the colleges, particularly Trinity, which have doubled their places for Northern students. However, if the prospective students do not have full information to be able to access it that is not worthwhile. Can the shared island play a role there?

Ms Émer Deane:

The issue the Deputy rightly identified came through in research we funded through the ESRI two years ago.

The Department of Education and Youth has been asked to look and see what it can do in working with the CAO. That has been taken forward in an Ireland-UK framework. UCAS, which is the British equivalent of the CAO, has as of this year added an additional page of information specific to Irish students to begin to fill that gap and will begin to mainstream that through to the information provided to schools. On this side, the CAO is now working to do likewise to provide better specific tailored information for students coming from Northern Ireland or from Great Britain, GB.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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Does Ms Deane not see the shared island unit having any role to play there as such?

Ms Émer Deane:

There is no sort of funding issue per se. This work is happening and is being taken forward between the two departments of education so it is not directly in our area.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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I suppose what I am saying is there is a gap there that is not currently being filled and I do not want another academic year to go by and we still talk about it. I welcome the research that was done - we had already done research on the education committee. We keep identifying the gaps but it is not getting to where we need it to be able to make the changes we need to make to increase the student mobility to the extent we need it to happen.

This committee did some work on constitutional change previously and we have made recommendations on it. One of those recommendations is the whole-of-government approach to constitutional change; the preparation of a Green Paper was another; and the setting up and resourcing of an Oireachtas committee dedicated to the preparation of a new Ireland. Is Ms Deane aware of the research we have done, first in terms of women in the Constitution and the finance and economics? How those cross-party recommendations being taken and incorporated into the shared island unit? How does she see that happening in the current term?

Ms Émer Deane:

We are absolutely aware of the work of this committee, the reports from the committee of the previous Dáil and indeed the priorities identified for this one, including health. The shared island initiative, as the Deputy will be aware, is about whole-of-government policy and putting a sustained focus on the future of the island as a whole whatever the constitutional future of the island is. Everything we do is work that will be important in all constitutional futures. That is the framework in which we work.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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That is the framework in which we work also but the work has to be done in terms of every party and everybody agreeing in this State that we need to prepare. That does not predict the outcome but the preparation needs to be done and that is what we are trying to do on this committee.

I wanted to ask about an example of just one project to see would it come under the shared island unit. The planetarium in Armagh is fantastic but we are trying to replicate something like this in County Mayo for the Ballycroy Wild Nephin National Park. These are two projects that could really blend together for the exchange of learning, for marketing an all-island tourism and all of the that. Is that a project that can be looked at by the shared island unit? Would that fit in with it?

Ms Émer Deane:

The shared island unit is working with three existing planetariums in Birr, Dunsink and Armagh. They are working together to get UNESCO world heritage status. That work is under way and we are supporting them as they work through their bid. If there is a partnership between Mayo and Armagh on this specific project, my question would be is it a local authority project and is that perhaps where it needs to go or might it be something that would fit under the forthcoming shared home place initiative. I am not sure. I would have to see the detail.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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The National Parks and Wildlife Service is driving it.

Ms Émer Deane:

Ultimately, Ministers, Departments and agencies like the National Park and Wildlife Service have to design programmes to which people can apply. We do a lot of work with the NPWS, including on peatlands, biodiversity, wetlands and coastal areas.

The question is whether in the future they prioritise a programme where they see a value to doing it on an all-island basis and come to us looking for support.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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It is an ongoing problem and challenge in terms of regional imbalance. If there are opportunities for North-South projects that can also serve the purpose of addressing regional inequalities, we need to be mindful of that, bearing in mind the funding that is available.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy Conway-Walsh. From my initial observation, every time the shared island unit is mentioned it is almost like Santa's wish list. There are a lot of organisations and groups that would like to access the funding and want to know where to go. Ms Deane has explained that very well in terms of the umbrella, the overarching body of the unit and then the subsequent funding agencies or organisations. It is very clear.

If I could take up where the opening remarks left off, on the shared home place programme, I am very excited by the arts and culture piece and the funding going into that. The celebration and acknowledgement of our shared cultural and heritage past needs to be homed in on. It is welcome that this was highlighted in the remarks to the committee today. There was mention of deepening collaboration on healthcare systems on the island. Our guests will be aware that between now and Christmas, this committee will focus on healthcare. The work of the committee will ultimately lead to a report, which we will share with the officials. I hope there will be potential for co-operation and collaboration, which was discussed earlier.

For my own piece, the Belfast to Dublin service which began last October has been really beneficial in supporting arts and culture as well as the economies of Belfast and Dublin. It has been a real game-changer. It is partly through the shared island funding and the national development plan. One thing that has come across my desk is the need for it to go longer and later into the day. That illustrates the success of the service, as I think Deputy Maxwell said earlier. The ability to extend those services to later in the day would be something the officials might take back to their Department. If they have any statistics on its success, they would be very welcome.

On the civic society fund, the officials said there is €6 million allocated to it up to 2027 and €2 million has been spent. That is very welcome. For organisations and groups that wish to partake in that civic society funding, particularly new ones who have not engaged before, and this is something for us down South particularly, initially at the outset of the agreement there was a lot of hurry and focus on trying to get groups North and South together, which is wonderful. I would hope to say that it is now more organic than arranged. However, I still think there are groups that would benefit from that co-operation North and South. How does one engage and what are the criteria? I hear what our guests are saying about the focus on women's and girls' groups, which is really important. I think Deputy Moynihan referred to sporting groups. For all the various societal groups that exist, particularly non-political ones, how is that done? Is there an application deadline? Could we have an outline of that? In terms of additionality and to avoid duplication, where shared island unit funding is involved, how do we avoid duplication of funding by PEACEPLUS, the UK or the Northern Ireland Executive? What test is applied to ensure there is no duplication? Maybe that is the North-South Ministerial Council, I am not sure. Is the data around the civic society funding generally available?

I asked some parliamentary questions on this a couple of months ago. Is data freely available and is it published?

Skills, apprenticeships and further education opportunities were referred to earlier by Deputy Moynihan. What other funding exists or through what channel would the funding come to ensure there is greater collaboration? I raised this at a different forum recently. We should look at the likes of the guilds and other opportunities for apprenticeships to gain practical work, North and South. Is there any involvement from the shared island unit on that? That is a lot of questions for Ms Deane, but it will be no bother to her.

Ms Émer Deane:

Thank you, Chair. I might take them in reverse order.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Absolutely, yes, please do.

Ms Émer Deane:

I will start with apprenticeships. The Department of further and higher education is looking at that area at the moment to see whether it can develop a shared island proposal. It is working with SOLAS, the agency with responsibility for it in the South, and with its Northern Ireland counterpart. It is in the programme for Government as an objective. Earlier, I mentioned the good work PEACE is doing in that space. We will see all of that great skills agenda work begin next year through the PEACE funding.

That brings me to the question on PEACE funding. PEACE is completely separate from us but we work closely with it and share a lot of information with it, as it does with us, around its priorities and the kind of work it is doing. The PEACE programme overall is worth just over €1 billion. It will be a very important funder in terms of the rail the Chair mentioned. The rolling stock will be funded through PEACE. We will look to see where we can bring additionality to what the Department of Transport is doing anyway in the rail space. It is doing stuff with the European Investment Bank, the PEACEPLUS programme and with us on the hourly service. I will take away what the Chair said about the overall hours.

The Chair also mentioned arts and culture. As well as the shared home place, which as I said to the Senator we hope will touch every town and county on the island, there is also the money that was allocated this year to arts and culture. The Minister is developing a programme that will see more interaction between our national cultural institutions and their northern counterparts: cross-Border touring for theatre, and more programming by Coimisiún na Meán in terms of what it is doing North and South. A whole suite of arts, culture and heritage programming was just announced in February and will start programming next year.

The civic society fund is operated by the Department of foreign affairs. It puts out a call, usually in the first quarter of the year - in spring - so the next call will go out at that point. It involves a very broad range of areas. In each case, an applicant in one jurisdiction partners with an applicant in the other jurisdiction to look for joint funding. That is the kind of civic society model, which is about building strategic partnerships. There is something there about the visibility, which goes back to previous questions. We might have a word with the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade to see how it could make sure that it is known about more broadly. I will take that away as well.

The total amount in the civic society fund will now be €9 million. It will go from €1 million a year to €2 million a year, with effect from next year. One of the other announcements by the Government in February was a doubling of the fund.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Ms Deane very much. Are there any second-round questions for the witnesses from members, including those online?

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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It is very important to have a framework for all the research that is being done. The work we did on women in the Constitution was mentioned. Aberdeen university has done research with UCD, as have other universities. Really good work is being done, but let us not make an industry out of it. Let us do the additionality all of the time. The only way we can do that is to have a central framework under the Department of An Taoiseach where we test it rather than adding things to it all the time.

We also need to avoid the situation where there is lots of money announced, but only the groups that have the resources and experience can apply. There are really good projects that need funding. There are big issues we need addressed, not least for our competitiveness, but also for people in all communities in the North who are left behind. I am particularly thinking of projects in the loyalist and unionist areas that really need to be focused on. Let us try to not leave people behind because they do not fit into a box, or because they do not have the resources or capacity to apply for that funding.

David Maxwell (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I go back to the train service. It is a great service, but there is no 7.50 p.m. service. I have made inquiries. They do not have the train sets to provide it. It is a great service, but if you cannot get away for the 6.50 p.m. train, it is a two-hour wait. When you are used to that hourly service, it is something. I take it that it is the same from Belfast. That service is not leaving at 5.50 p.m. because the sets are out of place, I am told. It is maybe something that might take a bit of investment to truly make it every hour from 7 in the morning to 11 at night.

Ms Émer Deane:

The Deputy asked about statistics. There has been a doubling of use of the service since the hourly service came in last October. All of those issues will be looked at. A priority in the programme for Government is the 4 North project north of Connolly Station, which will unlock a lot of those issues on the Dublin-Belfast line.

David Maxwell (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I will finish on this. There is not one sign in Connolly Station or on any train to say shared island did this. Only for it, the service would not be every hour. I am just saying-----

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Or even in the carriage.

David Maxwell (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I know it is there, but how many people know that shared island put that funding there to make that service hourly? Nobody. If you asked them, they will probably just think it happened.

Noel McCarthy (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I thank both witnesses for coming in. I learned a lot today about the shared island programme.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I mentioned healthcare earlier. Given the work ahead of this committee, will the witnesses send a note on the engagement thus far with shared island on this specific issue of health? It might inform the committee's work over the next while.

Ms Émer Deane:

In that regard I mention that as well as good contact between the two Departments North and South, the CMOs also work closely together. Both jurisdictions now also have a chief science officer and a new relationship which may be relevant to the committee's work in this area.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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That is important. If there are no other speakers or questions, I thank Ms Deane and Mr. Duffy for their comprehensive, good and informative engagement. I thank them for their time today. We appreciate their being here.