Seanad debates
Thursday, 5 March 2009
Order of Business
10:30 am
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, motion re Diseases of Animals Act 1966, to be taken without debate at the conclusion of the Order of Business; No. 2, Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009 — All Stages, to be taken at the conclusion of No. 1, with Second Stage to conclude at 2 p.m., if not previously concluded, spokespersons having ten minutes, other Members seven minutes and on which Senators may share time by agreement of the House; and No. 3, earlier signature motion on the Investment of the National Pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009, to be taken without debate at the conclusion of No. 2. It is proposed that the business of the House will be interrupted for 30 minutes at the conclusion of Second Stage of No. 2.
Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
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Yesterday we heard the "B" word, "budget", from the Taoiseach for the first time when he acknowledged a new budget was needed, but we still have not heard the "A" word, apology. Like any addict or person in rehabilitation, the Government must first apologise and accept the mistakes it has made. It is important the Taoiseach acknowledges some responsibility for the role he and his Government have played over the past ten years in the economy.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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What about Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae?
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Fitzgerald, without interruption.
Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach ought to accept some responsibility. If one wants to find the solution to the economic problems in the country, one has to accept mistakes were made here.
The Opposition had a limited briefing on the economy at the Department of Finance yesterday. The House called for a meaningful debate before the new budget is announced. It must be a meaningful debate with Ministers outlining the policy rationale behind their decision making in recent months and years. We need details from Ministers on the policy choices facing them. We need details of the cost benefit analyses of the options available to them. We need to understand the policy rationale behind what the Government, in particular the Taoiseach, said in recent weeks concerning the decentralisation programme, the reform programme and other areas. We cannot have empty scripts. We need information if we wish to have a real debate on the policy choices facing the country.
For example, we cannot just have a "Yes-No" debate to the suggested cuts to child benefit. The Minister for Social and Family Affairs must explain to the House the policy options, costs, benefits and rationale if we are to have a meaningful debate before budgetary decisions are made, as Senators demanded yesterday.
Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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The points made by Senator Fitzgerald are extremely important. The only aspect on which we differ is that I would not ask for an apology because an apology for which one is obliged to ask is not worth receiving.
Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
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Those in government should at least accept responsibility.
Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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The Government should come clean in respect of the issues to which the Senator referred. It would boost confidence if it were to admit that it made mistakes, if it identified those mistakes and indicated how it intends to approach matters from now on.
I am glad the Government is involved in discussions with the Opposition parties and the social partners and is trying to develop a strategy. The next three weeks will be critical. What happens in that period will prove more important than the budget that is due to be introduced. During the next three weeks, every opportunity should be taken to explain to people, in terms they can understand, the seriousness of the difficulties we face. They should also be informed of the remedial measures that will have to be taken and be reassured that the weak and vulnerable will be protected from the essential cuts that must be made.
It is also important that people are informed as to when it is likely that our problems will be resolved. One of the difficulties that always arises is that if a Government takes emergency measures — for example, those relating to the declaration of the Emergency — they tend to remain in place for ever. A timeframe must be set down so that people will know when our current difficulties will end.
If the Government can convince the social partners of the need to take tough action, I will champion that cause in this House. It is necessary that we should do so, however unpopular it might be. It will not be easy to ask the representatives of the business community, the unions or the organisations that make up the social pillar to accept what it will be necessary to do. However, if they can be convinced with regard to the measures that need to be implemented, Members have a duty, despite the wave of unpopularity that will certainly follow, to sell and support those measures. Let no one believe that taking tough action will satisfy critics in the media because those individuals will simply focus their attention elsewhere. We must be reassured by and confident in the decisions that must be made so that progress will be made.
Alex White (Labour)
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Somebody asked me last week whether I believe that politicians are part of the problem or part of the solution. The man in question was not sure of the answer to his own question. He was referring to politicians across the board. In view of the fact that 1,000 people are losing their jobs each day, we must recognise the need to shake ourselves up in the way we do business in this House. I apologise if people take what I am about to say as criticism, but what passes for debate in the Seanad is abysmal. There is no point in our having debates that are mere set pieces. We must deal meaningfully with the types of issues to which Senators Fitzgerald and O'Toole referred. We might as well close the House down if we do not take these matters seriously.
I made a proposal earlier in the week to the effect that if we are to engage in a so-called rolling debate, it should be conducted in a way that makes sense. Such a debate must also make a real contribution to the national conversation that must take place in respect of the serious crisis in which we find ourselves. The word "emergency" is used continually. The matter to which I refer is an emergency issue. Not to put too fine a point on it, people should remember that we are paid to carry out our business in this House. In that context, we need to be able to satisfy members of the public that our services are worth the money they pay for them. In light of the manner in which we conduct our debates, questions arise as to our worth. I am not criticising any individuals, the Leader or anyone else, but we must address this matter. If we do not do so, not only will questions arise as to our relevance, but we will render ourselves entirely irrelevant.
We can begin by dealing with the issue to which Senators Fitzgerald and O'Toole referred, namely, the need for information, facts, figures and details. Why can the Seanad not lead the national conversation with regard to what the mini-budget to be introduced at the end of the month should contain? Why can we not engage in debates informed by what is contained in one of today's newspapers in respect of who pays tax, the levels of tax they pay and the contribution they make to the raising of revenue through the taxation system? Would it be possible to place more information in the public domain so that people might, whether on radio programmes or whatever, take part in the discussion? That would be better than maintaining the type of traditional and old-fashioned secrecy that surrounds fiscal and budgetary matters.
We must take perhaps not a long but certainly a hard look at ourselves to identify the contribution we might make. I welcome the fact that the Government is involved in discussions with the Opposition. However, I hope the process relating to those discussions will amount to more than merely putting in place a suggestion box at the bottom of the stairs in the main hall of this building. We need more than the type of suggestion box one might see at a Butlins holiday camp or in a youth club. There must be serious engagement with the Opposition and if that is to take place, information and facts must be provided.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the fact that the European Central Bank, ECB, will reduce its interest rate by approximately 0.5% later today. This will make a big difference for borrowers and mortgage holders. In 1982, another dark period in our history, inflation and interest rates stood at approximately 18%. The ECB's move will sound a positive note on the day on which we will recapitalise the two major banks.
The Government should put in place a €10 billion investment or national reconstruction fund. This could possibly be done through Anglo Irish Bank, which would restore some of that institution's credibility. There are people who have money in respect of which they are not receiving a great return as a result of the reduction in interest rates and who would be prepared to invest in such a fund. Serious consideration should be given to my proposal in this regard.
I am disappointed that departmental officials do not follow up on suggestions put forward by Members of the House. They do not even contact Members by telephone to seek additional detail in respect of what might be considered logical ideas. No one has contacted me regarding my proposal that a national reconstruction fund be established since I first put it forward some time ago. I make an appeal to those officials who are following the proceedings of this House, on the Internet or by whatever other means, to contact Members who put forward suggestions to obtain additional information in respect of such suggestions. Departmental officials have the expertise to assist Members in further developing proposals they might put forward.
Will the Leader request that the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment come to the House to discuss the National Consumer Agency and the work it does in respect of consumer rights? The costs relating to this agency are quite high. Yesterday I was obliged to inflate two of the tyres on my car.
David Norris (Independent)
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The Senator should have tried blowing into them.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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This matter is hardly relevant to the Order of Business.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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I do not believe the Leader will be able to do anything for the Senator in respect of this issue.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The Cathaoirleach will understand the position when I finish my point. At some point, he could undergo an experience similar to that which I endured yesterday. I drove to the BP TOP filling station on the quays, the Esso station in Parkway West and the Shell station in Palmerstown——
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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There can be no advertisements on the Order of Business.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The Senator should make another list.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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——but none of them had in place facilities to allow one to inflate the tyres on one's car.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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In this country, there is only one filling station for every 2,000 people.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I am amazed that the people of Dublin do not complain about the fact that they cannot inflate the tyres on their cars at filling stations. In Castlecoote, the village in which I reside, it is possible to inflate the tyres on one's car without charge. However, three filling stations within a 10 km radius of this House do not have any service facilities.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The Senator could have blown air into the tyres himself.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I was aware that the Senator might make jokes of that nature.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The Senator's list of filling stations is similar to that which he produced in respect of the banks.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Leyden's point is not relevant to the Order of Business. I call Senator Coghlan.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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——that the Tánaiste should come to the House to explain the work being done——
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Leyden should resume his seat. I call Senator Coghlan.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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——on behalf of the Government by the National Consumer Agency. I have lodged a complaint with the agency in respect of this matter.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should resume his seat. I call Senator Coghlan on the Order of Business.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I agree with the points put forward by Senator Fitzgerald. We are all in this together, but it must be acknowledged that mistakes were made. The spirit should be proper and correct. The books should be properly and fully opened and all cards should be face up on the table. In that way, meaningful dialogue and discussion can take place and something useful might emerge in a proper all-party spirit.
I welcome the Leader back from Heaven's Reflex, where we both attended——
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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It is not appropriate to the Order of Business to welcome anybody back from where they were.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Yes, but it is very relevant to the question that will follow.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should put a question to the Leader.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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It was a very important conference of the Irish Hotels Federation, people who are on the business front line trying to attract tourists, which is so important to this country. We are aware of how hard hit these people are at present. The Leader and I took part in several of the discussions at the conference. The federation made a useful proposal with regard to extending free travel to all European Union senior citizens. These people could come in their millions to Ireland. We need every extra visitor we can get, and senior people have time, discretionary income and the inclination to travel. I fully support the Irish Hotels Federation in this regard. We should seek to advance the proposal in the Houses of the Oireachtas. Ireland must position itself properly and I am anxious to hear the Leader's response on behalf of the Government to the proposal.
In conjunction with that, I wish to refer to something mentioned by Senator O'Toole yesterday. We must not stop anybody who is in a position of leadership in this country visiting abroad for St. Patrick's Day. These are front line ambassadors, be they Ministers, Deputies, Senators, council cathaoirligh, councillors or mayors. We need all that goodwill scattered worldwide for St. Patrick's Day to attract every extra visitor possible to this country in this difficult time for us and our economy.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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We have always been broad-minded on this.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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It was discussed at length yesterday.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism was mentioned. It was very fortunate that the door of the helicopter did not hit the rotor blades or drop off over a built up area. People could have lost their lives. It was a very serious incident. We have six of these helicopters. They appear to be sturdy machines but the left hand door of the helicopter concerned came off for an unexplained reason. We must get an early result from that air accident investigation.
Cecilia Keaveney (Fianna Fail)
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When will the animal welfare Bill be introduced in the House? I also reiterate Senator Wilson's frequently asked question about when legislation will be introduced to ban the party pill, as it is familiarly known, given the legislation was due to be introduced early in this session.
As I mentioned earlier this week in the Leader's absence, Scotland is the eighth highest consumer in the world of alcohol. Its government has taken on this important issue because it costs its economy £2.2 billion as a result of approximately 42,000 people attending hospitals with alcohol related problems. Given that Ireland is second in the world for alcohol consumption, we should return to the issue of alcohol abuse, not just because of the health risks and the financial cost it imposes on our economy in these straitened times but also because people are travelling to the North to buy alcohol and other commodities because of the price differential. Now that Scotland has taken on this serious issue, perhaps we should speak to our counterparts in the North with a view to formulating an all-Ireland alcohol policy, whether that involves minimum pricing, getting rid of happy hours, abolishing two-for-one deals and so forth. We should take on best practice given that the island shares a common problem with access to and abuse of alcohol.
There was a briefing today in Buswells Hotel by the Higher Education Authority on what makes Irish voters vote and how they vote. Given that International Women's Day is near, and I am aware the Labour Party has put forward a Bill to deal with gender issues in politics, I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on how to encourage more women into politics and how to help them reach the top of the tree in their areas of business. The research by the Higher Education Authority could be a starting point for a debate on what makes voters vote and how they vote and to examine the impact or role, from the female perspective, the decision making on candidate selection and presentation plays in that.
David Norris (Independent)
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I greatly fear that Senator Alex White might be correct in his perception that this House is becoming increasingly irrelevant. That could explain why, once again, less that one third of the Members are present for the Order of Business, as has been the case over the past two weeks.
I welcome the indictment of the President of Sudan on war crimes charges. His response was to exclude a number of aid organisations, including Médecin San Frontières, which means that many people in the camps will not be immunised against meningitis and will die. His response is to sentence more people to death. I am glad this indictment has been made and I hope a similar warrant will issue for Mr. George Bush and his cronies, another president who deserves this treatment.
I support my colleagues' call for a debate on the economy, be it a rolling debate or otherwise. We hear news all the time on the radio, such as the Government opening the books to the Opposition and the social partners. How about forcing the banks to open their books? We would all like to know what is in them too. I was horrified to hear that nobody in the Department of Finance has an economic qualification. I do not believe everybody must be academic but apparently there are 100 such qualified people in the ministry in the North of Ireland, which is one third the size of this country. I agree that we must examine matters such as child benefit. Again, I rely on the wireless for news because we have not had this debate here. Children must be protected but if, as was stated this morning on the airwaves, there are people in receipt of child benefit who use the benefit to go on skiing holidays, it is an obscenity. We must look at where the money is. It is not just a case of technically fiddling with the income tax rate but of finding out where the money is.
We should have a debate on hedge funds. Mr. Brendan Keenan has said that one of the problems with the economy is that London-based hedge funds are gambling against the Irish economy and deliberately driving it down. They want to do us in so they can collect the pickings. I want to know about that. I was astonished to learn that Mr. Garret FitzGerald, "Saint Garret", recently retired from them. I wonder about the ethics of that.
Finally, let us examine competition. We have made a tin god out of competition but we do not understand the difference between competition and competitiveness. The Competition Authority should be put in the firing line, given its record. The abolition of the groceries order sent prices up, not down as it claimed it would. The licensing of every huckster's shop in Dublin to sell hard booze sent the alcoholism rate up. We are keeping electricity prices high in the name of competition. Selling off eircom was not the decision of the Competition Authority but privatisation was supposed to result in competition. Private investors asset stripped the company, did not invest a penny in broadband and then flogged the company to an Australian pension company.
11:00 am
David Norris (Independent)
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There is also the problem with taxis. Taxi drivers were forced to increase their prices against their wishes. They are protesting on the streets today. It is absurd. A ridiculous number of unqualified people are coming into the taxi sector. The Competition Authority is now opposing the freezing of drink prices. What is going on? Finally, there is what happened to the most vulnerable people, that is, low paid workers in the acting profession who do voice-over work. They were screwed by the Competition Authority and threatened with being hauled before the courts to face criminal prosecutions simply because they banded together. Let us have this issue out in the open. Let us discuss competition, what it is and if it is uniquely and inevitably in the interest of the Irish people. I do not think so.
Labhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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Ag an am seo gach bliain cuirtear béim faoi leith ar Ghaeilge agus tugann Seachtain na Gaeilge seans don phobal úsáid a bhaint as an Ghaeilge atá acu. Tá an ócáid seo eagraithe go han-mhaith agus is daoine óga go mór mhór atá taobh thiar den iarracht seo. Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil dea-thoil ann don Ghaeilge sa Teach seo agus úsáideann roinnt mhaith de Bhaill an Tí Gaeilge ó ham go chéile. Chomh maith le sin, tá stádas faoi leith bainte amach ag an Ghaeilge i reachtaíoct an Stáit. Chomh fada is atá Seachtain na Gaeilge ar siúl, tá súil agam go mbeimid in ann rud faoi leith a dhéanamh anseo lá amháin sula mbeidh an tseachtain thart.
I ask that we place particular emphasis on the Irish language because that is the purpose of Seachtain na Gaeilge, which is primarily organised by vibrant young people with great vision. Seachtain na Gaeilge is exceptionally comprehensive. It is celebrated nationally and locally, and RTE, the press and many others are involved in it. I also raise the issue of Seachtain na Gaeilge to highlight that we should not view Irish solely in a linguistic sense. If one examines our history, one finds that the language was one of the motivating factors for our patriots. In our recent commemoration of the establishment of Dáil Éireann in 1919, Members will have noted from looking at the proceedings of the first sitting of the Dáil that the language was very much to the fore.
At the inception of the State, bodies such as Conradh na Gaeilge and Cumann Luthchleas Gael regarded the Irish language as a vehicle for other things. For example, they promoted the concept of supporting Irish industries, buying Irish made goods, showing loyalty to the country and so on. We should not underestimate the Irish language. To take the point made by Senator Alex White, we could show the relevance of the House, not only from a linguistic point of view but also in responding to the current crisis by drawing on our history and the example given by many patriots, past and present.
Dominic Hannigan (Labour)
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Senators spoke about the job losses we are experiencing. Last night, 30 apprentices from SR Technics, a firm in north County Dublin which is under threat of closure, visited the House. These apprentices are halfway through their courses, which they will not be able to complete if the company decides to pull out of the country. I am aware that many apprentices throughout the country face a similar prospect. Will the Leader arrange a debate on how to get FÁS, IDA Ireland and other relevant bodies involved to ensure the thousands of apprentices who are in this position as a result of job losses are able to complete their courses?
Dominic Hannigan (Labour)
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I support Senators' calls for a debate in advance of the forthcoming mini-budget. The House must have a detailed discussion on tax rates. Many people are calling for a widening of the tax band. As my colleague in the other House, Deputy Burton, has discovered, many people can afford to pay a little more. They should be asked to come forward to the table. For instance, the 30,000 people who earn more than €200,000 per annum are taxed at just 41%. In the Netherlands the highest income tax rate is 52% and I understand the figure in Belgium also exceeds 50%. If we increased the tax rate for these people by 10%, the tax take would increase by €1.5 billion per annum. I ask that, rather than trying to widen the tax base and include people who currently find it very difficult to pay their way, we consider how we can hit those who can most afford it. We should debate all these issues prior to the mini-budget. I ask the Leader to arrange such a debate.
Eugene Regan (Fine Gael)
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I take issue with the suggestion made by Senators Alex White and Norris that the House may be in some way irrelevant. I fundamentally disagree with my colleagues. While the quality of debate in this House may be affected by a lack of information and the obfuscation of Ministers who appear before it, over the past two years Senators, through debates, have highlighted these issues and the sheer incompetence of the Government.
Eugene Regan (Fine Gael)
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I ask Senator Norris not to interrupt.
Eugene Regan (Fine Gael)
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The Seanad has also highlighted the actions of Ministers who have come before us and given glib speeches and have been in denial about issues such as recapitalisation of the banks, the public finances and the need for a new budget. These issues have been exposed by debate in this House.
The vetting of legislation, the questioning of Ministers and the opposition provided in the House have been useful in inducing the Government to take action at different times, not least in giving a commitment to introduce a mini-budget. It takes many people to influence the Government, whose members are slow learners. Peter Sutherland, Garret FitzGerald, a series of economists and the Opposition have stressed the importance of the Taoiseach taking action.
David Norris (Independent)
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Last year, the same people said there was nothing wrong with the economy.
Eugene Regan (Fine Gael)
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Slowly but surely the penny has dropped. It may take time but the Government responds to pressure.
We will soon have a mini-budget, on which the Minister for Finance has proposed that the Opposition parties make submissions. The Minister believes this is a clever move. He is, in a sense, playing a trick on the Opposition and he expects it to decline his invitation, but it has not done so. Fine Gael, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin have, however, given commitments to make submissions. The Government must provide information to the Opposition. It is not a simple question of walking across to the Department of Finance and obtaining some information on the latest Exchequer figures. We must know what are the policy options, what advice is being given to the Government from various outside advisers and what measures can be adopted. The Opposition needs this information if it is to play a meaningful part on deliberations on the forthcoming budget.
On the question of taxation, Colm Keena's article in The Irish Times today highlights that 3% of earners pay 33% of income and 6% of people who earn more than €100,000 per annum pay 43% of income tax. We can have a witch-hunt against high income earners but it may kill enterprise and the incentive to work and turn the recession into a very deep and long depression. It is necessary to take a considered view of taxation measures.
The good news always seems to come from Europe. Today, the European Central Bank will announce a reduction in interest rates. This follows news that the European Union is committed to help a state which may be in difficulty with its debt. I hope Senators who opposed the Lisbon treaty will review their position and, in the interests of the Irish economy, commit to supporting the treaty in the next referendum.
David Norris (Independent)
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We need a commitment on the European Defence Agency.
Pearse Doherty (Sinn Fein)
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I concur with Senator Alex White that we need to have a more informed, constructive debate on the economy. A rolling debate would be helpful in this regard because it would free us of time constraints. However, Senators must be given the relevant information. I agree with my colleagues that——
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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I have asked Senators not to bring mobile phones or BlackBerrys into the House. We must be fair to those who are trying to record the proceedings, and Senators who bring these devices into the Chamber are acting irresponsibly. I have asked that they be turned off or, if it is necessary to take calls, that they be left with Senators' secretaries. Mobile phones ring too often in the House and, to be fair to everyone, it must stop.
Pearse Doherty (Sinn Fein)
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While I support calls for a debate, it must an informed debate. Senators must recognise that many members of the public perceive this House to be irrelevant. Seanad reform, for which all of us have argued, has not taken place. The issue is usually the set piece debate on the first day of each new Seanad. The Government needs to take the bull by the horns by reforming the Seanad and eliminating duplication between the Upper House and the Lower House.
Unlike Deputies, Senators are not able to hold Ministers to account and may not table written questions to obtain information. The information required to have an informed debate includes access to the types of figures to which various speakers referred. For example, who are the 5,803 people who work and earn income here for part of the year but do not pay tax in this State? Why can we not ensure such tax exiles pay their taxes here?
Pearse Doherty (Sinn Fein)
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I have been trying to find out for well over a year how many schools are using prefabricated classrooms.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator has tabled a question on that issue on the Adjournment and it will be taken in due course.
Pearse Doherty (Sinn Fein)
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I am saying this to the Leader because we need an informed debate. The only information the Department of Education and Science can give us is this 100-page file of 900 schools which, between them, have 2,700 prefabricated classrooms. That is only a fraction of the number of schools out there. The Department does not know where the €100 million it has invested in prefabricated classrooms over the past three years has gone. It has no idea which schools are involved and it does not even know the list of schools in the school building programme on a county-by-county basis. How can we make an informed decision on the direction in which this country needs to go when the Minister for Education and Science and the Minister for Finance do not know the figures?
Pearse Doherty (Sinn Fein)
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How are we supposed to know if these experts——
Pearse Doherty (Sinn Fein)
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——who supposedly have the figures at their fingertips cannot provide accurate information to Deputies or Senators a year later?
John Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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Senator O'Toole raised a very important point this morning that he would lend his support if the social partners need to make difficult decisions. I ask the Leader to arrange for a debate on the support of the social partners, particularly at this time. Difficult decisions will have to be made. The issue of Ministers going abroad for St. Patrick's Day has been mentioned. Those Ministers have wall-to-wall appointments that will be for the benefit of the nation. People do business not with ideas or concepts but with people who turn up on their doorsteps and talk to them. St. Patrick's Day has been of major benefit to this country. It is an international symbol of which we should be very proud.
I also support the very positive proposal of Senator Keaveney on an alcohol tax similar to that pertaining in Scotland. We need to raise funds, and the raising of capital from alcohol seems to be a virtuous cycle, particularly if it results in a decrease in deaths and the number of people who need to be treated in hospitals or treatment centres for alcohol abuse. Despite the fact that beer is practically given away in countries such as the Czech Republic and Germany when compared with our prices, Ireland still has the second highest level of alcohol consumption in the world. It would be of benefit, fiscally and in terms of public health, if we considered this matter.
I also ask the Leader to arrange a debate on the hedge funds that are thought to be betting against the Irish economy, to ensure that in the future contracts for difference are registered and reported to the Stock Exchange——
John Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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——so we know which of these people are betting against the Irish economy, which is equivalent to an attack on the economy.
Nicky McFadden (Fine Gael)
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I commend the Minister of State, Deputy Tony Killeen, on the outspoken way in which he has dealt with his personal experience of bowel cancer. Today the Irish Cancer Society launched a bowel cancer awareness campaign. One in three people in Ireland are not aware of the warning signs of bowel cancer. At present 287 people have been waiting more than six months for a colonoscopy. This is a terrible tragedy. The day before yesterday I spoke about cervical cancer and commended the Government on its cervical cancer screening programme. I call on the Leader, through his good offices, to ask the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney — I do not think there is a need for her to come to the House — to put in place a free bowel cancer screening service for people over 50. In the long run it would be very good economically because it would save the State a large amount of money as cancer would be detected early and people would not need ongoing treatment. It is a crying shame that one in three people do not know the early signs of bowel cancer. I commend the Irish Cancer Society on its campaign and the Minister of State, Deputy Killeen, on his openness about his personal journey. I ask the Leader to obtain firm answers on this issue for next week.
Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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I raised last week the issue of cross-Border social welfare fraud. It is an ongoing issue and it is happening again this week in County Donegal. I would like an update from the Leader on when we will have a debate on that issue — I hope it will be before the St. Patrick's Day recess.
I referred here before the Institute of Professional Auctioneers and Valuers, IPAV, which continues to refuse and defer applications from practising auctioneers with years of experience and university qualifications in their professions, while other applicants seem to obtain approval. It is a selective process. I call for a debate on the licensing of auctioneers and on this body. While many reputable firms are associated with the body, there are questions to be asked about it. I ask the Leader when the legislation on the establishment of a regulatory authority to bring more transparency to this sector will come to the House. It is a scandal and a disgrace that this body is deferring applications and giving no reason. It is a scandal and a disgrace. The IPAV has serious questions to answer. At a time when the construction sector is in difficulties, it should be opening its doors to new members instead of closing them. The members, two in Donegal of whom I referred, do not want membership of this organisation now because they have no faith in it.
Ireland is synonymous with sporting success. However, an international survey recently showed that while 52% of the population of Finland had spent at least 30 minutes exercising in the previous week, with 46% in Australia and 39% in Canada, the comparable figure in Ireland was 26%, or roughly one in four of the population. The Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism should come to the House to discuss the sports capital programme for 2009.
Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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I do not agree with the cutting of sports funding — Members on the opposite side of the House raised that last week. We must examine participation levels in sport. Clearly, based on the figures, we are not achieving what other countries are achieving. While everybody wants to watch sport on television, that may not be the healthy option. We need a debate on this issue.
We must also examine the opportunities for Ireland with regard to the Olympics in 2012. I do not think the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism is doing enough. I would like to hear the Minister's viewpoint on the strategy that is being adopted. I have been calling for a debate on this issue since I entered the House but unfortunately there has not been one. I accept the Leader has made every effort to bring the Minister, Deputy Cullen, to the House and, while that Minister has come to the House to discuss tourism issues, he should be invited to discuss sporting issues. I know the Leader is doing his utmost to achieve that. I hope we can have a discussion with the Minister on the sports capital programme and the 2012 Olympics.
Maurice CumminsJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I will begin in a similar vein by asking the Leader for a debate on the performance of Irish athletes in Beijing and on the relationship between the Irish Sports Council and the Olympic Council of Ireland. I concur with Senator Ó Domhnaill that we need to consider our preparations for the 2012 Olympics in London. I welcome Kenny Egan back to Ireland and wish him well.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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It is relevant in the context of the following question.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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We are having questions to the Leader and I do not want any mention of athletes by name.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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He is a sporting hero who deserves to be treated with respect. We need a debate on mental health and men's health. This is related to the point raised by Senator McFadden about bowel cancer. We should also have a debate on the role of men in society.
I call for a debate on the economy and the crisis or emergency budget which is due to be published in April. I do not entirely agree with Senator Regan. This House is becoming irrelevant whereas we should be driving the debate rather than Joe Duffy or Pat Kenny. This situation has arisen partly because of the way business is scheduled in the Seanad. It is extraordinary that the Minister for Finance has not attended the House. We have debated matters with the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Mansergh, but with respect, he is the junior Minister at the Department. As Senators Fitzgerald and Alex White have pointed out, we need not only to be given facts, figures and information but also the ability to hold Ministers to account. It is time to reform our business to allow Senators to put written questions to Ministers.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Our time is limited and several Senators still wish to contribute.
Larry Butler (Fianna Fail)
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I wish to raise the issue of child care, which will become more relevant in the context of the forthcoming mini budget. The Government will have to take child care into consideration when it raises taxes. We should be honest and recognise that tax increases will have to be made. I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on child care with the Minister for Health and Children.
Everybody we know who works in the private sector has experienced wage cuts and the cost of rented accommodation has fallen. However, commercial rents are slow to decrease. We must push for reductions in the cost of child care, which currently consumes almost one third of parents' salaries. Across the Border in Northern Ireland, child care costs half as much as here. In the context of the mini budget and taxation, child care is one of the main issues we must address. Approximately 1.8 million people remain at work and we want to keep them in employment.
Michael McCarthy (Labour)
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Later today the European Central Bank is expected to cut interest rates from 2% to 1.5%. While that is welcome news, unfortunately, it is of no benefit to those who hold fixed rate mortgages. Given the manner in which the State has bailed out and guaranteed our financial institutions since the advent of the global financial crisis, the least we should expect is that banks would pass on the reduction to those with variable rate mortgages. Even those who hold variable rate mortgages are not guaranteed to benefit from the reduced rate, never mind the unfortunate people who have fixed rate mortgages. The Government should insist that banks pass on the reduction as a quid pro quo for its support. Policies in respect of fixed rate mortgage holders should be reviewed given that for the past several years mortgage applicants were advised by banks to take out fixed rate mortgages. The expectation was that interest rates would increase but the mortgage holders are not benefiting now that rates are falling. I urge the Leader to raise this matter with the Minister for Finance. I have corresponded with the Minister and, while I understand the issues that arise, I believe a strong case can be made for revisiting this policy.
A Latvian ship, the MV Defender, arrived in the Port of Cork yesterday after being seized by port state control officers and the Department of Transport on the grounds that it was keeping inadequate at-sea logs and did not have sufficient supplies of food. The ship's nine crew members have not been paid in six months and are literally being starved. This is the second time that the ship has been detained in the Port of Cork. It is an affront to humanity to starve people and refuse them their due wages. I commend the Greater Chernobyl Cause on arranging emergency food supplies for the crew. Opposition Members usually offer constructive criticism of the Government but in this instance I commend the Department of Transport and the port state control on its prompt action. I am disgusted that any human would be starved or denied his or her rightful wages.
Camillus Glynn (Fianna Fail)
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Several colleagues have spoken about health issues. It would be helpful if we held a rolling debate on these issues. I strongly support the call for a debate on men's health. We held a debate on this issue in the last Seanad. Unlike their female counterparts, men are slow to look after their health. Statistics indicate that men visit general practitioners at the urging of their mothers, sisters, wives, daughters or female friends.
We should revisit the subject of diabetes types I and II. Any physician would attest that the incidence of diabetes type II is going through the roof. We should put that issue to centre stage given its adverse consequences for our health services. If we found some miraculous cure for diabetes tomorrow morning, we would be able to close at least one third of our hospital beds. It is a serious matter and I would welcome an early debate on it.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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I call Senator O'Reilly and ask him to be brief because the time for Order of Business has almost concluded.
Joe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
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Ba mhaith liom aontú leis an méid a dúirt an Seanadóir Ó Murchú maidir le forbairt na Gaeilge. Déanann an Seanadóir sár-obair ar son chultúr na tíre. Ba chóir dúinn tacaíocht a thabhairt don Ghaeilge tríd an teanga a úsáid sa Teach go rialta. Aon uair a fhaighimid seans an Ghaeilge a úsáid, ba chóir dúinn é sin a dhéanamh. Is páirt d'oidhreacht na tíre í an Ghaeilge. Tá an teanga thar a bheith tábhachtach. As Senator Ó Murchú has noted, we should support the Irish language as part of our heritage, particularly as we approach St. Patrick's Day. It is important that we instil a proper sense of patriotism in people and the Irish language is the key to much of our literary and traditional riches.
I strongly support the proposition that our Ministers should travel abroad to represent the country on St. Patrick's Day. However, they should not be accompanied by a phalanx of advisers and civil servants. The delegations should be lean and effective and their members should travel in economy class and stay in acceptable hotels. There is no need for extravagance and hard pressed taxpayers need to see a willingness on the part of Ministers to be patriotic and to do what is right for the country. I ask the Leader to commend my suggestion to the Government.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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I acknowledge the presence in the Visitors Gallery of the former Senator, Jimmy Mulroy, who made an immeasurable contribution to the affairs of this House. He has been a great friend and strong advocate of the Seanad for many years.
Senators Fitzgerald, O'Toole, Alex White, Coghlan, Norris, Hannigan, Regan, Hanafin, Buttimer and Butler expressed their views on the economic circumstances in which our country finds itself. I will facilitate Members in providing whatever time is required for them to express their views and offer their advice on the corrective measures which have to be introduced in early April.
I nail to the mast the fact that the Government is not responsible for the world recession. This recession has occurred despite the best efforts of the greatest powers and strongest countries in the world. We are all aware of what the strongest powers are doing in terms of making available finance to stimulate the economy, in particular in the western world. I commend the Taoiseach and the Government who on every occasion since the commencement of the downturn have one way or the other taken the required corrective measures. We are a small nation that has become one of the greatest countries in the world, having grown from small beginnings in 1991-1992 to where we are to date, with a growth rate during the past ten or 12 years of 7% per annum. We have achieved an enormous amount. These are the facts and we should be proud of them, in particular coming up to St. Patrick's Day when all our Ministers, the Taoiseach and others are going abroad to sell Ireland plc.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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This is the time when the world media affords Ireland a window of opportunity of three or four days during which we can promote Irish goods, Ireland as a destination and sell the achievements of our country. We must support these people in every way humanly possible. I accept the spirit in which colleagues on both sides of the House have supported the hard work of travelling Ministers, Taoisigh and Tánaiste of all Governments down through the years. This window of opportunity presents only once a year for the Irish diaspora. We must support them and not let them down owing to the downturn in the world economy.
I will do all required of me in terms of the forthcoming debate in regard to the corrective measures to be taken in April. I have no difficulty in leaving aside an entire day for an open-ended debate to tease out issues in regard to the economy and the advice that can be given to the Minister and Government officials. Senator Alex White and Senator Norris expressed concern in regard to the image of Seanad Éireann. We must seek the assistance of the responsible media in regard to informing the people of the real worth of Seanad Éireann. We in the Oireachtas know that time does not always permit all sections of all Bills to be teased out by Dáil Éireann. However, I first took up the position of Leader of this House in 1997 and have on only one occasion guillotined a Bill as it was of utmost urgency and had to be enacted the following morning to deal with the situation in the banks. Members are aware no time limit has been set in regard to today's debate on the Investment of the National pensions Reserve Fund and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2009.
We are the protectors of the Constitution on behalf of the people. We must scrutinise minutely each Bill that comes before us, line by line and section by section. I say to those people who believe the Oireachtas could perform as well without Seanad Éireann that that is not true. The Constitution must be protected on behalf of the people and that protector is this House, Seanad Éireann. It is not by chance this House is called the Upper House of the Oireachtas. This title was earned by the many Members who passed through this House and went on to become Taoisigh and Tánaiste. Many Ministers of all Governments were in the first instance Members of Seanad Éireann. It is not possible for any person to walk into Dáil Éireann and become a successful Minister on one's first day. I first came through the gates of this building in 1962, having assisted a former Member from my village of Castlepollard, of which I am so proud, who served as a Member of Dáil Éireann for 38 years. I can say here today without fear of contradiction and as one of the longest serving Members of the Oireachtas that in my experience I do not know of any Minister who on his or her first day made an outstanding success of any portfolio. That does not happen overnight. One must have experience and wherewithal if one is to be successful. Where better to get that than as a Member of Seanad Éireann on one's way to serving the country in Government.
Seanad Éireann is the protector of the Constitution. I urge colleagues here to defend this House. It is a great honour and privilege not alone to be Leader of this House but to be a Member of it. We are the protectors of the Constitution and we should let our colleagues in the responsible media know that this House has a serious role to play in ensuring the taxpayer gets value for money because we minutely discuss and debate every line and every section of each Bill that comes to this House.
Senators Leyden, Regan and McCarthy welcomed the proposed reduction of 0.5% in mortgage interest rates. It is hoped that reduction will be forthcoming and that there will be further reductions in this regard as this would greatly assist many people during this downturn in the economy.
The Senators also called for an urgent debate on enterprise trade, in particular the National Consumer Agency. I have no difficulty in providing time for such a debate.
Senator Coghlan expressed strong views in regard to the hotels sector. I must at this point declare a vested interest in this sector given that my family operate in it. His suggestion that we discuss the proposal that where possible we promote low cost or free travel for consumers from other countries wishing to visit our shores would assist the tourism industry during these difficult times.
On the reduction in energy costs announced by the ESB and Bord Gáis, I understand in respect of the new electricity supplier, Bord Gáis, that this reduction will apply only to household consumption and not in respect of business consumption, including the hotel and other sectors employing people, which is regrettable. We have a duty to consider how we can assist industries such as the Irish Hotels Federation at a time when energy costs in this country are so high.
I was horrified to hear of the experience of the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, Deputy Cullen during a trip to Kerry by helicopter. Given the height at which the helicopter was flying, had the door hit the blades all on board would have been killed. We should thank God all were safe. While I presume everybody will learn from this experience, why no safety chain was attached to the door is beyond me.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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That is the reason the investigation is so important.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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The Air Corps has been to the fore in its dealings with Members down through the years. I am thankful all ended well. Senators Keaveney and Hanafin called for a debate on alcohol consumption and abuse. Senator Keaveney also referred to the Scottish experience. It is timely this issue was raised today given a meeting of the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement, of which I am a member, will take place following this morning's Order of Business. I will take up this issue under any other business to see how we can improve on the proposal put forward by Senators this morning.
Senator Keaveney also called for an update in regard to the animal health and welfare Bill which seeks to consolidate and update existing legislation in respect of animal health and welfare and to consolidate responsibility for the welfare of all animals, including non-farm animals, within the Department. I understand the Bill is proceeding at the normal pace and that it will come to the House by the end of this year. I will update Members next week on the position in regard to legislation to ban party pills.
I will provide time for a debate on participation by women in politics and public life and how we can help in this regard. I would like to discuss with all women Members of the House what can be done to ensure we have a meaningful debate in terms of encouraging more women to participate in politics and public life. I will discuss this issue with all female Members of the House to see how we can improve on the proposal for discussion.
I will pass on Senator Norris's strongly held views on events in Darfur, which we all share, to the Minister. Senator Norris also called for a debate on the Competition Authority and an update on the groceries order. I do not think its lifting has been a success.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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It only brought down the price of drink.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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That was an all-party agreement at the time.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Ó Murchú made a strong case for a debate on the Irish language coming up to St. Patrick's Day, and Senators Doherty and O'Reilly also called again for this debate. I will endeavour to have this take place, especially during the two weeks of Seachtain na Gaeilge, from 2 March to 17 March. We in the Oireachtas can be really proud of having set up TG4 which has been an enormous success. I am delighted in this 125th anniversary year of the Gaelic Athletic Association, GAA, to see that the four captains of the All-Ireland winning teams will be the grand marshals of the St. Patrick's Day parade in Croke Park. I congratulate all who have made this possible. We salute the GAA and everyone associated with the language and I will have time set aside for this next week.
Senator Hannigan called for an update on jobs and apprentices finishing their courses. We all fully agree with this. I can also confirm that the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment will be in the House to give us an update on what is really happening on the job front and the serious challenge facing the country.
Senator Doherty called for a debate on education. I certainly can have that take place. The Government is investing €640 million this year in capital programmes. That is the fact although times are difficult for the Exchequer.
Senators McFadden and Glynn called for a debate to highlight serious concerns about bowel cancer and a proposal to offer free screening services to those aged over 50 years. That is a wonderful idea and we should strive to ensure that the Minister will bring it in at the earliest possible time. I have no difficulty in a debate on these issues taking place after St. Patrick's Day.
Senator Ó Domhnaill called for a debate on cross-Border fraud in the social welfare area. The Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Mary Hanafin, gave an uplifting and enlightening address at our Ard-Fheis but I have no difficulty in asking her to come to the House to let all colleagues contribute on this serious issue. The Senator also spoke about the licensing of auctioneers and his experience in the Donegal area. I will pass on his views to the Minister after the Order of Business and see what the response will be.
Senators Ó Domhnaill and Buttimer called for a debate on sport and particularly Ireland's participation in the 2012 Olympics. We all want to see our sportspersons getting the greatest opportunity especially when the Olympics take place in London and I have no difficulty in having time put aside to debate this.
Senators Buttimer and Glynn called for a debate on mental health. I have no difficulty in having time set aside for this. Senator Butler called for a debate on child care. I have no difficulty having time left aside for this also.
Senator McCarthy spoke of the horrific experience of the unfortunate Latvians on a ship in the Cork area, this being the second such experience. I thank and congratulate everyone who helped there. The human rights issue arising from this is totally unacceptable. I will certainly pass the Senator's views on to the Minister after the Order of Business.
Senator Glynn called for a debate on diabetes related issues which he has continually outlined to the House. I intend to have a long debate on this serious issue.