Alex White (Labour)

Somebody asked me last week whether I believe that politicians are part of the problem or part of the solution. The man in question was not sure of the answer to his own question. He was referring to politicians across the board. In view of the fact that 1,000 people are losing their jobs each day, we must recognise the need to shake ourselves up in the way we do business in this House. I apologise if people take what I am about to say as criticism, but what passes for debate in the Seanad is abysmal. There is no point in our having debates that are mere set pieces. We must deal meaningfully with the types of issues to which Senators Fitzgerald and O'Toole referred. We might as well close the House down if we do not take these matters seriously.

I made a proposal earlier in the week to the effect that if we are to engage in a so-called rolling debate, it should be conducted in a way that makes sense. Such a debate must also make a real contribution to the national conversation that must take place in respect of the serious crisis in which we find ourselves. The word "emergency" is used continually. The matter to which I refer is an emergency issue. Not to put too fine a point on it, people should remember that we are paid to carry out our business in this House. In that context, we need to be able to satisfy members of the public that our services are worth the money they pay for them. In light of the manner in which we conduct our debates, questions arise as to our worth. I am not criticising any individuals, the Leader or anyone else, but we must address this matter. If we do not do so, not only will questions arise as to our relevance, but we will render ourselves entirely irrelevant.

We can begin by dealing with the issue to which Senators Fitzgerald and O'Toole referred, namely, the need for information, facts, figures and details. Why can the Seanad not lead the national conversation with regard to what the mini-budget to be introduced at the end of the month should contain? Why can we not engage in debates informed by what is contained in one of today's newspapers in respect of who pays tax, the levels of tax they pay and the contribution they make to the raising of revenue through the taxation system? Would it be possible to place more information in the public domain so that people might, whether on radio programmes or whatever, take part in the discussion? That would be better than maintaining the type of traditional and old-fashioned secrecy that surrounds fiscal and budgetary matters.

We must take perhaps not a long but certainly a hard look at ourselves to identify the contribution we might make. I welcome the fact that the Government is involved in discussions with the Opposition. However, I hope the process relating to those discussions will amount to more than merely putting in place a suggestion box at the bottom of the stairs in the main hall of this building. We need more than the type of suggestion box one might see at a Butlins holiday camp or in a youth club. There must be serious engagement with the Opposition and if that is to take place, information and facts must be provided.