Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am pleased the Seanad has decided to discuss school transport this afternoon. I welcome the opportunity to outline the range of measures my Department has put in place in recent times to improve the safety, the range and the quality of school transport services.

I will first provide Members of the House an outline of the extent of the school transport service. It is a significant operation, managed by Bus Éireann on my Department's behalf and covering over 46 million miles annually. Over 135,000 children, including more than 8,000 children with special needs, are transported in over 3,300 vehicles on a daily basis to primary and post-primary schools throughout the country. In addition to the 135,000 children carried, Bus Éireann also issues over 9,000 tickets to schoolchildren for travel on public and privately licensed scheduled local and national bus and public rail services.

Government investment in the scheme has increased very significantly over the years. In 1997, expenditure stood at €49.6 million, while this year's allocation is €152 million. This investment has been targeted toward the development of new services, improvements in the quality of services and extensions and alterations to existing services, mainly relating to special needs. In 2001, several improvements were made to the school transport services. The number of eligible pupils required to establish and maintain a new primary school service was reduced from ten to not less than seven. The threshold for maintaining a post-primary service was reduced to four eligible pupils, provided there was a minimum of six fare-paying pupils using the service. At post-primary level, the combined daily travelling and waiting times were reduced from a maximum of three hours to 2.5 hours. In addition, the distance requirement for remote area grants for primary pupils was reduced from 4.8 km, or three miles, to 3.2 km, or two miles, and the distance requirement from the nearest route was reduced from 4.8 km to 3.2 km in respect of fully eligible post-primary pupils.

While the overall number of children being carried has decreased by approximately 12% since 1997, this has not resulted in a commensurate reduction in cost. Members will appreciate that a reduction in pupils being carried on an individual bus does not automatically mean that a smaller bus will suffice.

A major focus of the increased investment is the provision of improved services for children with special needs. It is estimated that 33% of the financial allocation for school transport, approximately €50 million, is now being expended on transport services and grants for children with special needs, who account for about 6% of the overall number of children carried. Costs are high in this area because it is not always possible to accommodate these children on regular school transport routes. Accordingly, special transport, such as minibuses, wheelchair-adapted vehicles and taxis, must be provided.

This substantial expansion and improvement in school transport services, mainly for special needs, is best illustrated by the fact that in excess of 600 additional services have been introduced since 1998, almost 400 of which were minibus and taxi services, which were mainly for children with special needs. In addition, the total number of vehicles in the school transport fleet went up from 2,418 in 1998 to over 3,300 in 2006. In the same period, taxis were introduced as a new category of school transport and more than 280 are now in service. Taxi services are primarily for special needs children, for whom transport by car is often the most appropriate option.

Other factors have contributed to the growth in expenditure, such as public demand for improved services in the form of extensions to provide home pick-ups, more buses to facilitate shorter travel time, separate services instead of combined services and more modern and more specialised school buses. Educational choice has also emerged as a significant factor. Traditionally, children attended their nearest primary school. However, parents are now afforded a greater choice of educational facility and many of them exercise this choice by sending their children to schools such as gaelscoileanna, gaelcholáistí and multidenominational schools, in addition to denominational schools. This obviously involves the establishment of new services for eligible children or the payment of a grant to the parent to assist with the cost of making private transport arrangements.

Another factor is the retention of school transport services in rural areas, even where numbers fall below the threshold for establishing a service. In addition, contractors have to be paid higher rates as their cost base rises. This includes factors such as labour, insurance, fuel, spare parts and replacement vehicles. From this outline, I hope I have conveyed to the Members of the House a sense of the scale, development and cost of school transport services. I also convey my appreciation to Bus Éireann for the efficient and effective manner in which it manages such a large operation.

I emphasise that the safety record of the school bus service is good, due in no small part to the skill of school bus drivers and the expertise of Bus Éireann which administers the service. However, there can be no room for complacency in this regard and the small number of tragic accidents which have taken place over the years, including recent incidents, serve as a constant reminder to us to keep safety at the top of the transport agenda.

As part of my commitment to safety, I launched a flashing lights warning system pilot project on 22 school buses in Ennis in January 2005. This system is designed to alert motorists to the presence of a school bus as it stops to allow school children to board and alight and minimise the possibility of accidents occurring at such times. An evaluation of the pilot scheme has been encouraging and I am investigating the possibility of extending it to a small number of other areas. This would enable more extensive tests on the effectiveness of the initiative to be carried out. Based on the outcome of these tests, I hope to be in a position to decide whether to extend the scheme to the remaining parts of the country.

Just weeks prior to the tragic accident in County Meath last May my Department and Bus Éireann had commenced another safety initiative ahead of the introduction of seat belts on school buses. Two demonstrator buses were introduced over a two-week period in counties Meath and Kildare. These buses were fitted with three seats on one side of the aisle and two on the other, all of which were equipped with seat belts. From my Department's viewpoint, the exercise served to test the reaction of pupils to the wearing of seat belts, the type and size of belt fitted and the seating configuration to which I referred. At the time my Department had been working on proposals for phasing out the three-for-two concession on school buses.

Following the unfortunate accident in County Meath, the Government established a working group comprising representatives from the Departments of Education and Science, Transport and Finance to progress measures to enhance school bus safety. Bus Éireann also attended as required. In July 2005, following recommendations from the working group, the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Hanafin, and I announced a package of measures to enhance the safety of school transport operations. The measures included the phasing out of three for two seating on post-primary services by the end of December 2005 and for primary services by the end of December 2006; the acquisition of additional buses by Bus Éireann and the hiring in of additional private vehicles to meet the consequential capacity shortfall; the immediate fitting of seat belts on the Bus Éireann school bus fleet; and the setting of a target date of December 2006 for private buses in the scheme to be fitted with approved seat belts.

I understand from my colleague, the Minister for Transport, that the regulatory framework governing safety belts is settled at European level and addressed through requirements targeted at the vehicle and its occupants. Earlier this month the Minister made regulations giving effect to Directive 2003/20/EC relating to the compulsory wearing of safety belts in motor vehicles. Essentially, these regulations provide that seat belts must be worn once they are fitted. The regulations also oblige owners of buses fitted with safety belts to ensure passengers of such buses are informed of the requirement to wear safety belts while they are seated and the bus is in motion. This obligation may be discharged by one or more of the following means: announcement by the driver or conductor; audio visual means; or signs or pictograms displayed at each seat. l am satisfied the provision of seat belts on school buses constitutes a further safety improvement.

The feasibility of retrofitting safety belts in existing school buses was considered by the working group to which I referred. The group consulted national experts in a number of European Union countries and the European Commission on the matter. In considering a retrofit programme in existing school buses the view was taken that any retrofit specification would need to be as consistent as practicable with EU standards for new vehicles. In general terms these standards provide for the fitment of three-point belts in exposed seats and either three-point or lap belts in other seats. On the basis of observed international practice and EU standards, the working group was of the view that lap belts, with associated safety measures, were the most appropriate option for installation in school buses undergoing a retrofit. The associated safety measures include the use of energy absorbing material on the backs and tops of seats. The view of the working group on this matter informed the decision of the Government that all vehicles used in the school transport scheme would be equipped with safety belts by December 2006.

Having installed seat belts on school buses, it is essential that all children wear them at all times and their behaviour is always safety conscious while travelling on or in the vicinity of school buses. Calls have made for the provision of escorts on all services, not only those provided for children with special needs, as is currently the case. I am having arrangements made for the development of an information campaign for all school transport users which I expect to be launched to coincide with the commencement of the next school year. Schools, parents, Bus Éireann and my Department can work effectively together to develop and reinforce good safety practices on school buses.

I now propose to provide a progress update for Senators in regard to the roll-out of the various measures announced last July. More than 220 vehicles have been hired in from the private sector to address a capacity shortfall arising from the phasing out of the three for two seating arrangements on school buses at post-primary level. In addition, Bus Éireann has purchased 51 modern second-hand coaches and arrangements for the acquisition of a further 30 such vehicles are in hand. The company has also placed orders for the acquisition of 20 new dedicated school buses. A number of the second-hand vehicles have already been received and it is expected that the balance of the vehicles will be delivered later this year.

At this stage, one-for-one seating is in place on all but 31 of the 2,500 post-primary services. Bus Éireann has commenced retrofitting seat belts on its own school bus fleet and work is progressing well. The contractor for the work has developed specifications for each vehicle type in the company's fleet and already 210 of Bus Éireann's cohort of approximately 650 school buses have been fitted with seat belts. Currently, 20 buses per week are being retrofitted, with work set to be accelerated over the summer holidays and expected to be completed later this year.

More than 2,600 private contractors' vehicles operate in the school transport scheme and I understand many of these are already fitted with seat belts. The standard to which belts on contractors' vehicles have been fitted will need to be assessed and Bus Éireann is making arrangements for the necessary inspection to be carried out on a contractual basis. The representative organisations for these contractors have been advised of Department of Transport requirements for retrofitting and discussions have commenced on how best to implement the seat belt installation by the target date.

The move from three-for-two to one-for-one seating arrangements serves to emphasise the priority that must be given to pupils who are fully eligible for school transport. This, in turn, highlights the position of catchment boundary and concessionary pupils, an issue I now propose to address. Post-primary pupils who are eligible for school transport to the post-primary centre in their own catchment area may sometimes elect to attend a post-primary centre in a different catchment area from that in which they reside. In such instances these pupils may avail of school transport to the post-primary centre they have chosen to attend. However, such pupils will only be offered transport if spare seats are available on the relevant bus after all eligible pupils have been accommodated. Such pupils are referred to as "catchment boundary pupils". This rule has always applied.

Catchment boundary pupils are not guaranteed school transport for every year of their schooling. Rather, the granting of transport in such instances is dependent on the availability of spare seats on the buses used to transport eligible students. Any such additional capacity is calculated on a term to term basis. This approach has always pertained. Catchment boundary pupils are required to pay the same contributions as eligible post-primary pupils to avail of school transport. In addition, such pupils are responsible for getting to the catchment boundary or to the nearest point inside that boundary at which they are picked up by the relevant bus.

In the case of primary and post-primary pupils who are ineligible for school transport on the basis of the distance requirements transport may be offered on a concessionary, fare paying basis. The charge for such concessions is €26 per term for primary pupils and €51 per school term for post-primary pupils. Again, it has always been the case that such pupils are not guaranteed school transport for every year of their schooling. The granting of concessionary transport is dependent on the availability of spare seats on the buses used to transport eligible students. Any such additional capacity is calculated on a term-to-term basis. The position I have outlined is in accordance with the provisions of the school transport scheme. It is my intention to apply these provisions as we develop and improve the services.

A related issue which has been topical in recent times is that of catchment boundaries. There have been calls for local and general reviews of these boundaries to enable pupils to be accommodated with school transport to attend a school of their choice. Catchment boundaries have their origins in the establishment of free post-primary education in the late 1960s. For planning purposes, the country was divided into geographic districts, each with several primary schools feeding into a post-primary centre with one or more post-primary schools. The intention was that these defined districts would facilitate the orderly planning of school provision and accommodation needs. They also facilitated the provision of a national school transport service, enabling children from remote areas to get to their nearest school.

While the service has been developed over the years to take account of linguistic and denominational considerations in the matter of school choice, it was never the intention that such choice would be unlimited. Clearly, the cost of operating such a scheme would be unsustainable. It is entirely reasonable for parents to exercise educational choice but expectation as to the extent to which choice can be facilitated must be tempered with realism.

A review of catchment boundaries may be appropriate where, for example, a new post-primary school is established in an area where previously there was none, or conversely where a sole-provider school closes due to declining enrolment. However, to revise boundaries in order to provide school transport for pupils to their school of choice would not be appropriate and it is not my intention to undertake such a review.

Considerable progress has been made over the lifetime of this Government in developing school transport services. I am anxious to ensure that the current momentum, especially in regard to safety, is maintained.

I thank all the Senators for their attention and for having raised this debate initially. I thank you, a Leas-Chathaoirligh, for your patience.

Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I welcome the Minister of State to the House for this timely debate coming, as it does, on the anniversary of the greatest tragedy in the history of the school transport system. Last evening in County Meath, the parents, fellow students and friends of the five schoolgirls who died, marked the first anniversary of their deaths.

I am appalled by the Minister of State's address in the context of what the parents and school children of the country have endured within the last 12 months. The record speaks for itself. Five children died in County Meath last year. There was a tragedy in Offaly earlier this year and a near tragedy in County Meath a few weeks ago. In her remarks, the Minister of State said that considerable progress has been made in the lifetime of this Government, but I do not know what she means by progress. Since 1967, when the school transport system was initiated on a statutory basis, little or no progress has been made other than the fact that additional buses have been hired to provide the service. Fleet replacement was only undertaken in response to emergencies. The new buses to which the Minister of State referred are, in fact, second-hand vehicles. Less than 1% of the total fleet comprises new, purpose-built buses for school transport.

Some 33% of the increased allocation for school transport, while welcome, has been for a new, specialised category of people with special needs. Since 33% of total funding goes towards transporting 6% of the passengers, we can see the perspective of what the Minister of State terms "progress". It is laughable in the extreme. If special needs are removed from the equation, no progress has been made and most people would say that our school transport system has deteriorated. When we peel away the monetary percentages we can see the reality of what is happening. The school transport system is basically a rural service and the partners in education — parents, children and school management boards — are seriously concerned about safety. One of the shortest paragraphs in the Minister of State's address, paragraph five on page six, deals with safety. It is not good enough. Where is the commitment?

I thought the Minister of State would confirm the commitment given, under pressure, by the Taoiseach in the Lower House to audit and test the school transport fleet independently. Despite all the tragedies, why is it that nobody with responsibility for school transport in the Department of Education and Science has moved an inch? It is not good enough. Bus Éireann must have a special facility to test the school fleet. Why are school buses not exposed to the same rigorous tests as commercial buses or private vehicles in the NCT?

Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

They are.

Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

If that is the case, there is something seriously wrong with the particular process concerning school buses. I live near an NCT centre where commercial goods vehicles are rigorously tested every day. If the smallest flaw is found they are returned to the garage for repairs. That is not the case with school buses, however. Anyone can see that school buses in rural areas need to be replaced for safety reasons. The report of the accident in County Meath clearly stated that the school bus in question on that terrible day was not roadworthy. That was not the only bus in such a state of disrepair. All necessary steps should be taken to resolve this matter. Will the Minister of State confirm the Taoiseach's statement earlier this week that an independent audit of the school bus fleet will be carried out, whether the vehicles are run privately or by Bus Éireann? That is the kernel of the matter which concerns parents of children using school buses. The Minister of State should confirm the Taoiseach's statement, which is what most people want to hear as an end result of this debate. She should have something to say about that.

Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I will do so in concluding the debate.

Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am sorry it was not included in her opening remarks, which I have heard before. On 29 September 2005, the Minister of State made a similar presentation to the Joint Committee on Education and Science. There is very little variation from it in today's speech, as she will admit herself.

Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I will not.

Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The same format and topics are followed through the speech, so obviously the Minister of State is not prepared to move on this situation. Why is it that buses under contract to the Department of Education and Science are only replaced in an emergency? While the average age of buses is now just 12 or 13 years, what of the older buses? Many buses up to 18 years of age are still on the road and Bus Éireann will keep them on the road as long as they are ticking over. That is not good enough for the school transport system when safety should be the priority.

I hope the Minister of State sends a message to Bus Éireann that she expects reliability as we approach the examination season. Children should not be worried before an examination that they may not get to their examination centres. It is an issue many have raised with me due to children having to travel in inferior buses.

The Minister of State referred to catchment areas but only minor adjustments have been made in this regard since 1967. It was stated that some rural bus services have been maintained despite declining numbers but that situation has changed with the increase in population in recent years and it is now a factor only in rare circumstances. The issue of catchment areas should be examined in light of the reality of the situation on the ground.

I have always questioned, and did so at the recent committee meeting attended by the Minister of State, whether it is appropriate that a partner in education, the chief executive officer of vocational education areas, is the transport liaison officer. While it is becoming less of a factor, in most instances the chief executive officer has responsibility for schools within the vocational education committee area. While I do not say this with disrespect to any chief executive officer, it is not appropriate that the chief executive officer would continue to operate in this area. A liaison officer should be appointed who does not have any affiliation to schools within a catchment area.

The Minister of State will remember a situation in Kinvara, County Galway, where a parent had to drive behind a school bus for five miles from the family home to the catchment point before the children were picked up, despite the bus travelling by their door. Taken with the question of concessionary tickets, the two issues are an integral part of a serious problem in the school bus system. I hope the Minister of State will indicate that it is past time for a review of the catchment areas and concessionary ticketing. These programmes are welcome to many but they cause division among communities, neighbours and families because one child gets the service and another does not, and others are incorrectly blamed.

There are now 3,300 school transport vehicles in operation but I do not know what expenditure there has been on the replacement fleet. When vehicles are finished on the Dublin routes, they are cast aside and brought to rural Ireland to provide services. I checked on two buses recently which had given a lifetime of service for Dublin Bus before operating in a rural area for eight years.

I compliment Bus Éireann for transporting thousands of children over thousands of miles. However, there is now a greater number of vehicles on the roads and a greater need for safety. The Minister of State and the Government must categorically state that there will be an independent audit of the fleet. While the Government will choose who tests the vehicles, it should be done in an open, transparent way so all involved in providing school transport will be tested to the same standard, as is the case for all other commercial vehicles on the road.

Safety is the priority. These buses carry children. Everybody welcomes the fact we have made progress with regard to the wearing of seat belts and the two-for-one rule. However, the expenditure figures outlined by the Minister of State could be misrepresented in so far as the Government is obliged by legislation to provide for children with special needs, which we all welcome and which had to be done, but all of these services are provided by private carriers. This reflects the fact that Bus Éireann has not yet accepted the need to provide facilities whereby children with special needs could be integrated into the normal transport system.

The Minister of State referred to a flashing lights warning system, which is a wonderful initiative and one I hope will be extended. It is an important issue for many, particularly those using dark rural roads in winter. The Minister of State must insist fire fighting equipment is in place on every school bus.

Liam Fitzgerald (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I welcome the Minister of State. Her work on the safety of school buses is to be commended and encourages us greatly. These measures and others she has outlined in great detail in this debate deserve our full support and the full and immediate support of Government. While I have criticisms of the school transport system, they are not directed at the Minister of State, her Department or her colleague, the Minister. There has been a national malaise but the Department is an insignificant part of it. The criticisms made by Senator Ulick Burke, some of which are relevant, are misdirected.

It is sad that exceptionally tragic accidents involving school buses have occurred on our roads recently. We have a moral imperative, above all other national, community and personal needs, to identify the culprits and embark immediately on a crusade in the interests of the safety of our school children when using public roads. It is not acceptable that it has taken the loss of young lives, full of promise and potential, to challenge us to look at ourselves. Simply put, we must immediately and urgently become honest and objective appraisers of our shortcomings.

Like all road accidents, school bus accidents occur because of institutionalised attitudes and practices. Our immediate crusade must be to root out the cultural factors that skulk in the casual undergrowth of road accidents. Current policy in this regard is misguided and is not yielding the desired results. A collaborative approach to road safety for all road users, schoolchildren and adults alike, one to which everyone can subscribe, is urgently needed.

If we, as legislators, want gardaí to win public approval for enforcement of road safety laws, we must as a series of measures stop them from skulking behind walls and hedges along wide, safe roads to plunder money from the motorist. My message is clear: let us stop shooting fish in a barrel. Every stretch of road should have a hazard rating based on the number of serious accidents over, for example, a ten-year period. This would be divided by the length of road in miles, multiplied by the number of cars using it daily. This would give a simple serious accident index for roads such as the N17 between Galway and Tuam, which I used thousands of times over 30 years, of perhaps 300 accidents divided by 20 miles, multiplied by 8,000, being the number of cars using the road daily, divided by 10,000. This would give an accident index of 12. It could also be divided by, for example, 1,000, and the accident index would be 120. The public would quickly begin to acknowledge that accidents are prone to happen on many of our minor roads. This would have a much more positive effect than the pieces of steel casually placed on roads — I mean no disrespect — stating that 88 people were killed on the roads of Wicklow over the past four years.

We have been able to bring the economy from the brink of bankruptcy to the dizzy heights of being one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Let us apply the same principles of partnership and collaboration to save lives on our roads. Let us do it with the same urgency and determination. Is not the solution as simple and as plain as the nose on one's face?

Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Who is "we"?

Liam Fitzgerald (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is regrettable that this debate is taking place against a background of exceptionally tragic accidents involving school buses. I convey my condolences and sympathy to all the families, extended families and communities that were touched so traumatically by the unfortunate accidents in Meath and Offaly.

As with every road accident, those accidents had their root causes in human failings, shortcomings or errors. I hasten to add that such causal factors do not pertain to drivers alone. Those responsible for poor quality roads are frequently the culprits in terms of responsibility for road accidents. It is unacceptable that county councils should erect an accident blackspot sign on a road and consider that an adequate discharge of their responsibility. I would go so far as to say it is irresponsible.

There should be a statutory requirement for an independent engineering report on every serious accident scene and the local authority responsible should be obligated, immediately and above all prior budgetary plans, to make safe structural or design deficient roads. There should be no tolerance of hazardous roads just as we have no tolerance of hazardous buildings or environmental hazards.

Of the two school bus tragedies I have mentioned, there seems to be prima facie evidence from all I have read that the roads at both scenes were not up to acceptable standards of safety. This is a major issue and one which has been relegated to insignificance and obscurity by the constant attribution of all road accidents to speeding and lack of enforcement.

Surely school buses do not offend in respect of speeding. This merely serves to underline that there are other significant causes of road deaths apart from those so persistently reinforced in the public perception. I venture humbly to suggest that the local authorities should be made stringently responsible for the removal of bad bends immediately, the correction of improper cambers, the removal of vertical upright edges on traffic calming islands and chicanes and their replacement with sloping high visibility edgings. I can develop at length on any of these aspects. We must also address the cultural factors that skulk in the casual undergrowth of road accidents. These are the prevailing attitudes of drivers, their norms of behaviour, norms of belief and their general disposition towards compliance and law enforcement.

As a country, we need a collaborative approach to road safety, one to which everyone can subscribe. This will not be achieved while there is an adversarial attitude towards the driver. If the Garda want public approval for enforcement, and we want it to have that approval, it must stop skulking behind walls and hedges to plunder money from the motorist. The Garda does not mount speed traps on minor roads because such roads, from one perspective, will not yield the revenue. Current policy in this regard is misguided and is not yielding the desired results.

What Gay Byrne is tasked to do is to change our prevailing cultural attitude to driving and safety. That means looking at basics such as maintaining a vigilant inspection regime in respect of public service vehicles, especially school buses. The Minister of State has convinced me that is well in train and being comprehensively looked at from her Department's point of view. Let us demand that the revenue be front-loaded and available to her to ensure this aspect is fully implemented. It also means enforcement that is pertinent, relevant and balanced. It is not shooting fish in a barrel.

Like all road accidents, school bus accidents occur because of institutionalised attitudes and practices. Their emotional impact jolts us out of the complacency and comfort with which we accept institutionalised norms. It is sad that it has taken the loss of young lives, full of promise and potential, to challenge us to look at ourselves. We are great at blaming others, such as young speedsters and drunken drivers — always somebody else.

I would like to see a more rigorous analysis of road accident data. I would also like to know how many road accidents are caused by the road hog who insists on travelling in the middle of the road at a slow speed building up the frustration of all behind him until someone in blind rage risks dangerously overtaking and causes an accident. We need to acknowledge these factors and to punish such selfish drivers just as we punish drivers whose speed and recklessness imperils the safety of other road users. Anyone who is not driving at the speed limit should by law have to move over or pull over to let other traffic pass.

Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Should they get penalty points?

Liam Fitzgerald (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Cyclists and pedestrians should be made just as amenable as drivers to the rules of the road. The current position is appalling. Cyclists ignore all classes of convention and laws such as one-way streets, footpaths and traffic lights. We will never engage the collaborative goodwill of all unless we stop the targeted victimisation of one sector as a mere revenue collecting ploy. We must bring equity and common sense to our crusade because it is a crusade we need.

It is significant that school buses have focused our reflection on the issue of road safety. We never prioritised their road worthiness until tragedies befell. I point the finger at everybody since the foundation of that service. Now we are wringing our hands in exasperation that things had got so bad unbeknownst to us.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Will the Senator repeat that?

Liam Fitzgerald (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

They got bad because of the endemic neglect that has prevailed over the lifetime of all Governments from the foundation of the service. "If it is not broke, do not fix it" seemed to be the prevailing approach, yet when tragedy strikes we are horrified. We seek to find somebody else to blame. The reality about the school bus issue is the same as the reality about road safety. We have not been honest and objective appraisers of our own shortcomings. We need fresh resolve, a frank analysis of shortcomings and a comprehensive resolution to the problems.

I commend and salute the Minister of State, Deputy de Valera, for the manner in which she has outlined her commitment to giving absolute priority to the school bus and school transport system.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am happy to welcome the Minister of State to the House. She and I are old colleagues from the days when we soldiered together on the former women's rights committee. We got on well and I think we still do. Although I will have some criticism, as others have said it is not a criticism directed personally at the Minister of State.

I recognise the difficulties in terms of expenditure, timescale and so on. It is appropriate because today's anniversary focuses people's minds on the tragedy involved when young lives are snuffed out. However, on that occasion it was not a problem of the school bus or the driver, as far as I can make out. It was principally a problem of the road surface. That is a real scandal, for which the Minister of State has no responsibility, and which resides with the local authorities. The situation regarding road surfaces is continuing and there will be further fatal accidents unless it is addressed.

I shall resist the temptation to travel in the general direction of road traffic which my honourable friend, Senator Fitzgerald, used to take the opportunity to score a couple of notable points on the subject of Garda interventions and shooting fish in a barrel. I agree with him but for me that is a slightly different debate, although the Senator used the latitude afforded by these statements to introduce those points. They are good points. I am not sure they relate as well as they might to the question of school safety, but it is an appropriate time to look at this matter.

One of the main issues I wanted to raise has already been raised in part at least by Senator Ulick Burke, namely, the roadworthiness of many of these vehicles. The Minister of State intervened to say they are being tested. If so, the test is not satisfactory, because over the past year or two we have all heard descriptions of buses with so much grass growing out of them that one could feed a herd of cows. One bus burst into flames. Other buses may be deemed roadworthy by some group but they are not even weather-proof. Last year, a group of courageous young schoolgirls in Donegal were so concerned about the decrepit condition of their bus and its absolute lack of roadworthiness that they refused to use it and walked to school on a regular basis. That story was broadcast over a couple of days. Those children were quite right.

The Minister says there is some form of test. That must be examined because it is a lousy test. Nor is it appropriate that school buses should be given a special test. I have also asked repeatedly, without ever getting a satisfactory answer, whether general buses are subject to a national vehicle test. Either they are not, or the test is unsatisfactory. An ordinary private vehicle with one little rubber stud missing from the inside of the boot will be failed by the NCT service. I know that because it happened to me, yet I see school buses pouring out black smoke which obviously have not been serviced for years.

We also have the record of the consumers, the young schoolgoers who constantly report on the state of the buses. Clearly, either no test is applied or a test is applied which is less stringent than that applied to cars. Furthermore, if we are concerned about the safety of adults using their own vehicles of their own free will, by choice, with no direct Government involvement, should we be much more concerned about whether the Government has accepted some degree of responsibility in providing school transport? That point must be considered. I raised it a number of years ago, as I did the issue of safety belts.

I appreciate some of what the Minister of State has said, but to adapt her leader's slogan, I would say "some done, lots to do". When I first raised the issue of safety belts, I was surprised and shocked with regard to the situation of parents of — I hope this is not politically incorrect — mentally handicapped children who would now be described as educationally disadvantaged for whom there were no safety belts on buses. Putting a child with an intellectual disability of some kind who may find it more difficult to follow instructions than an average student in such a situation was a recipe for disaster, particularly when three for two seating was operating on such buses, with no safety belts.

I raised that issue possibly four or five years ago and I am sorry to see it has not been addressed, although I give credit to the Minister for State for some moves in that direction. That is clear from her script. However, I am not convinced enough is being done. I assume too that when the Minister of State talks of the use of taxis, this is found to be more satisfactory, amenable, comfortable and appropriate for certain disadvantaged children.

I assume the paragraph of the speech which deals with safety is very carefully crafted. I know the Minister of State is no mean hand at linguistic skills — if that is not mixed a metaphor — but she says the safety record is a good one. Then comes an interesting phrase, "This is due in no small part to the skill of the school bus drivers and the expertise of Bus Éireann, which administers the service." In other words, it almost seems to be implied there that the professionalism of the drivers compensates to some degree for the decrepitude of the buses, which decrepitude is an established fact. We should not have to rely on the skills of the drivers, although we are grateful for them.

I am not suggesting the Minister of State is immune to safety concerns. That is made quite clear in the paragraph which followed, which is about flashing lights. This is a lovely idea because it is so simple, clear, practical and necessary, precisely because of the awful behaviour in which so many Irish drivers engage. When buses are pulling in, I have seen people passing them out on the inside. Children could be alighting from a bus, could be in positions where it is difficult to see them, so flashing signals are a good thing. A pilot project was launched in Ennis and I hope it will be extended because it is practical and simple.

With regard to the working group, it was stated that three for two seating on primary school bus services will be phased out by the end of December 2006. At least that is a commitment and a target date. However, as I raised this issue a number of years ago, I am rather taken aback that it is still on the burner. I would have hoped it would have been completed by now and I trust this is an absolute commitment to have it done by December 2006. I note too that the Bus Éireann buses must all be fitted with approved belts.

I found the Minister of State's speech interesting because of the references to the European Union conditions and standards obligatory as a result of EU directives. This worries me in a sense because though I may be misinterpreting, or there is a looseness of expression, I almost get a feeling from this that in terms of safety, we are doing what we are obliged to do by the EU. The Minister of State is vigorously shaking her head. Nevertheless, it makes it appear that we are obliged by the European Union to take these measures. We should be putting in place those measures a long time before we are obliged to do so.

Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We are.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I hope so, although I am not fully convinced, because the Minister of State has said that the fitting of safety belts will be mandatory for new buses entering the service from 20 October 2007. That is great, but it is 18 months away. That will make it about seven years since I first raised the issue. The Minister of State went on to say that the only exceptions are the buses used on single stop urban services. The EU directives do not require the retro-fitting of seat belts. I understand there is a limited programme of retro-fitting, which is not complete. The Minister of State may correct me if I am wrong but I understand there is no commitment to fully retro-fit every single school bus in the country, that there will be a phase-in, phase-out situation, so to speak. That is not acceptable. All the buses should be retro-fitted. The Minister of State said that in recent years, a significant number of larger buses entering into the service of this country have been fitted with safety belts. They should all be fitted.

Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

They will be.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Good. By what date?

Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

December 2006.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Will they all be retro-fitted by then? That is fine by me.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Minister of State will have the opportunity to reply, and others are waiting to speak.

David Norris (Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I may not be in the House but will read the reply of the Minister of State with interest. I am glad to hear the positive drift of her comments. Safety belts must be worn once they are fitted but that requirement is absurd when some of them are not fitted. We are making it mandatory where they are fitted but we not living up to our obligation to have them fitted. The Minister says they will be fitted quite soon. However, I raised this issue many years ago and I am sorry it has not yet been done.

The directives also oblige owners of buses fitted with safety belts to ensure the passengers of such buses are informed of the requirement that they be seated while the bus is moving. Again, this relates to the situation after the belts have been fitted. I hope there are no accidents before this desirable overall refit is complete. I am not satisfied that there is proper testing of buses. It is perfectly obvious that there is not. The tests are either not the same as the NCT or they are unsatisfactory.

Finally, the Minister of State stated, and I promise to read her reply to this debate in detail, that the overall number of children being carried has decreased by 12% since 1997. That is interesting. Why is that? Why has it not had a further effect? If the number is decreasing, why is it not possible to extend the scheme to give people choice? That would be very good although expensive. Give people choice so that if they wish to send their children to a multidenominational school five miles further away, it can be done. That would be healthy. The slack created by the fact of this decrease could be used to include such people in the scheme.

Ann Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is timely that we have this debate now to focus minds on this issue again, particularly in light of the tragedies that occurred over the last year in Meath and Offaly. I am sure the Minister was anxious to come to the House to outline her views and the progress to date with the school transport system. I will use some headlines from her speech to show what progress has been made. As the Minister said, more must be done but it would be wrong to suggest that nothing has been done.

I wish to put on record what the Government and the Minister of State, Deputy de Valera, have done and are doing in this area. The Minister has shown sensitivity and compassion with regard to the tragedies that have occurred with school buses. To allay the fears of parents, the Minister is working hard to ensure there is an upgraded transport system to carry schoolchildren to and from school.

One of the headlines in the Minister's speech relates to the cost of the school transport service and how much has been put into improving it. In 1997, expenditure on school transport was €49 million; today it is €152 million. A great deal of money has been spent on improving the service. One might ask how the money is being spent.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Fewer students are using it.

Ann Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

If the Senator interrupts me, he must allow me to interrupt him when he speaks. There are improvements in the service. The number of pupils required to establish and maintain a primary school service has been reduced from ten eligible pupils to seven. That is positive. The threshold for the post-primary service has been reduced to four eligible pupils, provided a minimum of six fare paying pupils use the service. The time spent travelling has been reduced from three to 2.5 hours. These improvements must be put on record and the Minister deserves credit for her sensitivity and commitment in detailing how we can further improve the service.

Escorts are now provided for special needs students and taxis, minibuses and wheelchair adapted vehicles will be provided to transport handicapped children to school. This is a huge improvement from five years ago when this was not available. Let us be fair when making our contributions to this debate. The total number of vehicles in the school transport fleet has increased from 2,418 in 1998 to over 3,300 in 2006, another positive change.

The core issue is safety on the buses and how to provide it. There is no room for complacency. I would be the first to reinforce that point. It must be high on our agenda to ensure parents have confidence in the service. I welcome the flashing lights pilot scheme. It is a great scheme and I hope it will be widely introduced.

Is there proper co-ordination between the local authorities, the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Department of Transport? I can give an example that highlights my concerns about this. I was travelling down the country about three weeks ago and happened to pass a community school in a rural area between 3.30 p.m. and 4 p.m. I waited for approximately an hour in my car as I watched cars zigzagging here and there around a school bus. There should have been a garda and school warden on duty. There should be some regulation because the situation was inviting an accident to happen.

The Minister cannot manage that situation from her office. There must be co-ordination in every school area so the local authority is aware of where there are problems on stretches of road. The school buses, therefore, can be made aware of the dangers by the local authorities. The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform should be made aware of what is going on by the local Garda station. The Minister cannot deal with this alone but must bring in backup support. I am sure she will do that.

A great deal of work is being done but safety is the priority on everybody's agenda. There is a feeling, with regard to some buses, that maintenance is not up to standard. I hope the Minister will examine this issue. I have seen these rickety old buses and have wondered, when driving behind them and seeing smoke coming out of the back, if they are all right. Perhaps they are — they are probably better than my car — but one does not get a good feeling, particularly when there are many children on the bus.

I wonder if the Minister is putting a huge responsibility on bus drivers to deal with teenagers of 14 and 15 romping around the bus. She has introduced the seat belt requirement and changed the three to two seating. However, is it possible to control the teenagers? Perhaps the Minister would give her views in that regard. It is one of my concerns. I urge the Minister to continue the good work. A great deal is being done and I am confident she will get it right.

Joanna Tuffy (Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Minister of State gave the figures for the huge number of children who use the school bus service. It is almost a year since the tragic accident last year in Meath, in which five schoolgirls lost their lives. There have been seven accidents since then, with one resulting in a fatality. It is an urgent issue that must be addressed.

The Minister of State outlined what the Government is doing about it but I have a number of questions. I have found some contradictions in her statement. On the recommendations of the working group, she stated, "the measures included the phasing out of three-for-two seating on post-primary services by the end of December 2005". Later she stated, "At this stage, one-for-one seating is in place on all but 31 of the 2,500 post-primary services." That means the target was not met.

The Minister of State also spoke on what she said was "the immediate fitting of seat belts on the Bus Éireann school bus fleet; and the setting of a target date of December 2006 for private buses in the scheme to be fitted with approved seat belts". Later she stated:

Bus Éireann has commenced retrofitting seat belts on its own school bus fleet and work is progressing well ... already 210 of Bus Éireann's cohort of approximately 650 school buses have been fitted with seat belts.

The targets laid down by the working group have not been met. Although much welcome work has been done, the Government should at least meet the targets of its working group, particularly when it is expecting private contractors to do so by 2006.

To meet the phasing out of the three for two school buses, some 2,600 extra vehicles have been hired. Will the Minister of State clarify if those buses are required to have seat belts and have in place the other required safety standards? The Minister of State referred to how our legislation complies with EU directives in this area. Has domestic legislation been drafted for requirements for school bus safety to ensure it is on a statutory basis? While we may consider the EU directive, we must draft our own laws.

I note from parliamentary questions the Minister for Transport stated a review is being carried out by the Department on safety on school bus transport. A comprehensive audit must be completed to include the buses involved, the routes used and their safety, bus drivers and insurance. It is possible for the Government to do this in a relatively short time.

The overall road safety issue needs to be tackled. Safe driving plays a large part in the prevention of road accidents. We must ensure our roads are safe. That seems to have been a major factor in the Meath school bus accident. Although the school bus fleet has increased, it could be better. In many suburban areas in west Dublin, large numbers of schoolchildren are taken to school by car. Some of the distances justify an extension of the school bus transport system to these areas. Such a move would also help in tackling traffic congestion in these areas. South Dublin County Council is carrying out a feasibility study on providing a local authority run school transport system. It may cost money in the short term but, in the long run, it will save money.

Martin Mansergh (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I welcome the report presented by the Minister of State, Deputy de Valera, outlining the improvements that have been possible to make to school buses. The school bus system is an essential everyday social service for thousands of children. To a point, one can only judge if it is an issue from the representations one receives. From my regular meetings with school principals in south Tipperary, I do not recall the school bus service ever being raised with me. In the few instances parents raised it with me, it was because their son or daughter had to go to a school closer to home but not one which the family went to over several generations.

We cannot ignore the tragedies that have occurred. Having worked in Government, I know the Minister of State is not a free agent in these matters. If there is anything the Department of Finance keeps an eagle eye on, it is the costs of the school bus service. Over the years, reports have been commissioned to see if some way could be found to reduce the escalating costs of it. It was understandable. Due to the paucity of resources available, old buses on a make-do and mend basis were employed.

The current bus fleet is not as old as it was ten years ago. Improvements have already been made. The Minister of State referred to 20 new purpose-built buses. It will not happen this year or next year but I would like to see a dedicated school bus fleet. All such vehicles have an operational lifespan but there is no justification for carrying our children round in buses that are older than the fleet used for bus users in general. The contractors that carry out this service for the Department of Education and Science, including principally Bus Éireann, are carrying out a public, social service. The resources we put into safety reflect the value we as a community place on the safety of our children. I acknowledge the Minister of State outlined progress in her speech but we should be ambitious in the long term.

Picking up on Senator Tuffy's remarks, there are many solo school runs by car that use up a lot of energy and give off emissions. Any sensible family, if there is a bus or train service close by, should use it. It should be Government policy to facilitate that because the school run contributes to congestion.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I will start by reminding the House of the shambles last August when the decision was made to end the three for two seating arrangement. It was the correct decision but it could not have been taken at a worse time of the year. August, which is normally a quiet time for politicians——

Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

What time of year would the Senator suggest?

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I certainly would not suggest August when the VECs were forced to act under significant pressure. The Department owes an apology to those staff for the manner in which this was done. We all attended public meetings, including Government backbenchers, and no one criticised the policy but the announcement, however, should have been made before August. I phoned the Minister for Education and Science and she washed her hands of the issue. When I phoned the Minister of State's office, no one could tell me who was in charge of the system. There was a complete lack of accountability and transparency. VECs and school principals found themselves in a very awkward situation.

Has the Government learned lessons from this shambles? It is planning a similar move for primary schools in December, a better time of the year, so it should apply those lessons when putting the new arrangements in place. Deputy Michael Moynihan, who is a member of the Joint Committee on Education and Science, was inundated with telephone calls from those across the country who faced chaos. I compliment the staff of the VECs, who were in an impossible situation. We attended many public meetings. This was not an issue in Dublin but it affected every other county. I hope the Department has learned from this episode.

Catchment areas are another burning issue. Some people believe they should be reviewed, and I see merit in that, but I also see dangers because the problem could be made worse further down the line. Parents need some flexibility, however, when children attend the same school, particularly brothers and sisters. We had a crazy scenario in Carlow last year where children sitting examinations received bus tickets while their siblings at the same school, but in a different year, did not get tickets. The issue was finally resolved but it was not handled well.

Who is responsible for children when they have been dropped off at school and before they are collected? At one school in Carlow, instead of there being two buses, one bus operates two runs. One group of children arrives early in the morning and a second is collected late in the evening. There is ambiguity about who is responsible for those children. The Minister for Education and Science has intimated that it is the responsibility of the board of management of the school but it has stated that is not the case. The issue should be examined.

Teachers finish work at 3 p.m and in most schools they invariably stay on after hours and there is no difficulty with that. Some day, however, a teacher who normally stays behind will have to leave and there might be an accident that could lead to a court case or, worse, a fatality. The Department must set out clear guidelines on this and let the boards of management know exactly who is responsible for children before school begins and after it ends.

The Minister of State's speech is 14 pages long but there was not a single mention of the independent audit mentioned by the Taoiseach in the Dáil a few weeks ago. Has that been dropped? Has the Taoiseach rolled back on that issue? Why was it not mentioned in the Minister of State's speech?

Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I will have an opportunity to mention it when I am concluding.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It does not inspire confidence when such a major issue is not mentioned. Fine Gael would support an independent audit of school transport, as outlined by the Taoiseach.

Senator Ormonde remarked that there are fewer children now travelling by school bus than ever before but the school bus budget has spiralled out of control in the context of the numbers travelling. We must remember that other costs are involved.

Senator Norris said that children should be allowed to go to any school they want. The State has a limited amount of money and there is an onus on it to provide transport for children who live more than three miles from the nearest school and within reason in other cases. We cannot, however, have a scenario where children in Bagenalstown who decide to go to Carlow can expect a bus service automatically. That is not possible, although children who want to go a gaelscoil or Church of Ireland school are allowed to go if there is no available school in the area.

I would like to hear the Minister of State outline the arrangements for the independent audit of school transport and receive an assurance that the Government will have learned something from the shambles of last August by the time the primary school regulations come into effect.

Tom Morrissey (Progressive Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. We are holding these statements in the context of a bleak year in the safety of our school transport system. Recently there was a fire on a bus in County Meath and in another incident, a 13 year old boy fell from the emergency exit of a school bus in Monaghan. Last month, a school bus and a waste disposal lorry were involved in a collision near Roscommon, resulting in seven teenagers and another passenger being taken to hospital. There was also the tragic death of Michael White near Clara in County Offaly and the five teenage schoolgirls who died following the crash in Kentstown near Navan last year. The House will join in restating our expressions of sympathy and regret to all those who are hurt or who suffer loss on our roads. The current situation is not acceptable and we must try harder to make our transport system as safe as possible.

There is no doubt there are problems with the school transport system. That is acknowledged and steps are being taken to address the issue. We must examine the situation objectively. More than 135,000 children are carried on school transport services each day to primary and post-primary schools. Taxpayers invest over €120 million in the service and deserve the best and safest facilities for their money. In addition to this service, Bus Éireann also provides 10,000 tickets to school children to travel on local and national bus and rail services. More than 3,200 vehicles are on the road every day ferrying children to and from school. These are both Bus Éireann and contractor vehicles. The operation is a large one and any adjustment will not happen easily or overnight, although some in this House have spoken as if that were possible.

It is not useful to make statements to the effect that the transport fleet that is entrusted to take our children to school is now the least safe method of public transport. Nor is it any great comfort to those who were injured or who have lost a loved one to know that Ireland has one of the best international safety records with regard to school buses. In this area, as in many others, we must make further progress in reaching a reasoned and useful assessment.

The school transport system is an extensive operation and thankfully, the school bus fleet has had a good record since its introduction in the late 1960s. Much of the debate on school transport safety has centred on the age of the bus fleet. The average age of the fleet, comprising both Bus Éireann and private buses, is approximately 11 years. This is not of particular concern. We should move away from a discussion of the age of the fleet and focus on the issues that concern parents, for example, the roadworthiness of the buses that ferry children to school.

Roadworthiness is a key factor, although it is not always a black and white issue. The bus that was involved in a fire recently, for example, had passed its annual roadworthiness test last August and was checked, under the maintenance programme, at the end of March of this year. Therefore, focusing on the age of the bus, roadworthiness testing or any other single issue will not provide us with all of the answers.

One concern about the roadworthiness checks is the fact that they are carried out by CIE staff, which is a less than ideal situation. If possible, school buses should be checked independently, but given the numbers involved, such a change is easier said than done. That said, I commend the Government on its recent move to investigate this possibility.

Another topic that is often highlighted when school transport is discussed is the fitting and wearing of seat belts. Again, there is no easy solution to this problem. Recently a boy fell from the emergency exit of a school bus. That bus was fitted with seat belts and signs instructing the children to wear the safety belts. In that context, solutions are not as obvious as some would lead us to believe.

I recently read correspondence from the Canada Safety Council to the National Safety Council of Ireland on the issue of bus safety. The council pointed out that, statistically, the school bus is the safest way for children to get to and from school. Without a bus, children are exposed to the risk of walking to school or using other forms of transport. Most injuries happen outside of the school bus. Children are 16 times more safe riding in a school bus than any other passenger vehicle. The Canada Safety Council also argues that seat belts would not make school buses any safer.

We know there are problems with the school transport system. The system itself is extensive and there is no single, easy fix to the problem. With regard to the age and road-worthiness of the fleet and the fitting of seat belts, we need reasoned, broad and considered action. Outrage, while understandable, or hand wringing and desk thumping, will only get us so far. We can do better and much work is being undertaken to improve the situation.

The school bus replacement programme has been in place since 2000. In that time, Bus Éireann has spent over €6 million on new vehicles. This will help to address the bus age and roadworthiness issues. All school buses operating within the school transport scheme will be equipped with seat belts from next year. The three children to two seats arrangement will be discontinued next year. The Government is to be commended for ordering a full review of the maintenance testing of Bus Éireann fleet vehicles and those contracted to the school transport service. We are making progress on a number of fronts and I am sure the Government will remain open-minded with regard to other steps that can be taken.

The National Parents Council has recently considered motions calling on the Department of Education and Science to introduce a road safety module to the primary school curriculum. It has also argued that it should be illegal for vehicles to overtake a school bus when it has stopped to pick up or set down children. I look forward to hearing the Minister of State's views on these ideas.

We cannot latch on to a single panacea, cure-all or silver bullet when it comes to school transport safety, or road safety generally. We know the issue is complex. Addressing the age of the bus fleet, examining the roadworthiness testing system and fitting seat belts are all part of the solution. None alone represents the entire answer. The Government is taking steps that will pay dividends but they will take time. I encourage all to be proactive, open minded and patient as we move towards delivering the safest possible transport system for the country's children.

I remember the introduction of the school transport system. Indeed, I used the school transport system in Cashel in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Without the school bus, I do not know how we would have got to school. I suppose we would have walked through the fields. A three-mile rule applied at the time and our house was only 2.6 miles from the school. However, we were picked up by the bus on the way out from the school, which meant that we actually travelled over seven miles to school every morning. My fondest memories of that time are of the journeys and the social interaction that took place on the buses.

Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I was interested to hear some of Senator Morrissey's comments regarding his memories of going to school. I also have memories of my time on school buses, but in the context of today's discussion, they might not be the most appropriate topic to deal with now.

The Minister of State has become very familiar with the safety concerns that exist since she took on the onerous task of dealing with school transport safety within the Department of Education and Science. There are difficulties surrounding the management of passengers on school buses and Senator Morrissey alluded to that fact. My own experience, as well as stories I have heard from bus drivers, backs up the fact that it can be a difficult task to control pupils. As Senator Morrissey has outlined, there is no single solution that will resolve the problems that exist.

I congratulate the Minister of State for resolving the seat belt issue and for ensuring that it will no longer be acceptable to carry three pupils to every two seats on buses. I applaud the way in which the Minister tackled these issues and fought hard to secure the necessary funding. Such changes will bring about a much safer situation for the transport of school children and are very welcome. However, we must ensure that students wear the seat belts that are put in place at enormous cost to the Exchequer.

Some contributors have said that travelling on a school bus is one of the safest ways to get to school. However, there has been an increase in the number of serious incidents involving school buses, some with very tragic consequences. It is important that school buses are maintained to a very high standard and perhaps the standard should be set even higher than is currently the case, particularly as more information becomes available and technologies improve.

I am concerned about the hiring of private buses by the State, through Bus Éireann, to augment the school bus fleet. I recently met members of the Private Association of Motor Bus Owners, PAMBO, which represents a large number of private operators who are doing their best to provide a good service. They expressed concern that the highly competitive nature of the tendering process has the potential to lead to a compromising of safety standards. While some would argue that such a statement is to be expected from PAMBO, its members argued that there are rogue operators within the private bus market who are prepared to drive down the tendering price by compromising safety standards.

Allegations have been made to me that vehicle test certificates can be bought. I have no direct proof of that but it has been brought to my attention that this happened in a number of cases. If that is true, it is very serious because if the State's testing system is being compromised it might jeopardise the service being provided. A number of bus operators would say that the rogue operators who have equipment that does not satisfy the safety standards but who succeeded in getting safety certificates are operating in an environment that allows them tender at a lower price and that the individual tendering the lower price sets the market for the others. Operators are indicating to me that they are not in a position to carry out regular maintenance on their buses because of what they call a cut-throat business. Their margins are at such a low level they are not in a position to ensure their fleet meets the required standard. If that is the case it is very serious.

I base that assessment on conversations I have had with members of PAMBO, people whom I know and believe to be of the highest repute. They are reputable operators and they are in a position to make these type of allegations. They indicate that there are people driving buses without the requisite licence to do so. If that is the case, it is very serious. If these rogue operators are in the marketplace they are creating difficulty for legitimate operators and a hand-to-mouth type situation which is making it more difficult to ensure safety standards are adhered to.

The cost of oil and other such elements are creating problems too. The Minister of State is aware of the figures. A total of €112 million is spent annually on school transport, 30% of which relates to children with special needs. The Minister of State outlined the position in detail. What she is doing in that area is of exceptional benefit to many people but there is a huge cost because of the support children must get in that regard. A total of €44 million of the allocation is spent on the private bus element and €36 million is spent on the public side through Bus Éireann. However, there are four times as many private buses in operation as there are Bus Éireann buses. There is a huge disparity in terms of the numbers yet the costs are relatively close. That appears to suggest we are not spending enough on the private fleet and seems to bear out the point made by the members of PAMBO.

I ask the Minister of State to inquire about the issue that has been raised and carry out a review of the standards of testing to ensure these rogue operators do not jeopardise the safety of our children. I have no doubt the proposed road safety authority will have responsibility for the management of the test and perhaps therein lies the solution.

Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. She was a familiar figure in Limerick West recently with regard to the problem we had with the school bus for the secondary school in Askeaton. I am glad the matter was satisfactorily resolved for the people from the Ballybrown area in particular who were able to continue using the school bus facility. The Minister of State may recall that because of demographic changes and the educational scene in Limerick city area particularly, many of the parents felt they were being set adrift and were anxious that their children attend the school in Askeaton. The matter was satisfactorily resolved however, although I realise the Minister of State was adhering to the Department guidelines at the time. I hope a similar problem will not arise in September for the pupils attending those schools and that the Ballybrown pupils, and also the new pupils, can continue their education in the secondary school.

School transport is focused sharply in people's minds now as a result of several recent tragedies. Any of us who have travelled to America in particular will have noticed the yellow school buses which appear to be very sturdy. Some of the school buses used here are 17 or 18 years old. Following the fire on a school bus recently, which happened very quickly, one could see the flimsy structure that was left after it had been put out.

We must seriously consider modernising the school transport fleet. I realise economics dictate the number of school buses provided but there is something wrong when school buses start to break down. I raised a problem with a school bus in Galbally, which broke down frequently, on the Adjournment. That bus is 18 years old and it makes one wonder if the school bus fleet is satisfactory.

Questions have arisen over some of the buses in the fleet. Bus Éireann does an excellent job in maintaining the fleet but questions must be asked because in the recent case the bus had been serviced only recently. Bus Éireann admitted subsequently that there was an engineering fault with the bus. This issue will remain in sharp focus for many people.

There is concern also about school buses in rural locations carrying primary and secondary level children in the same bus. I would be interested to know if there has been any movement on the seat belt issue. The objective was to move in the direction of eliminating the three-for-two seat belt arrangement and there was talk of the second level institutions also. Has there been any progress with regard to the primary schools because primary and secondary students are often carried on the same bus? How does that equate in terms of modernising the bus fleet?

Private bus routes operate in many rural locations because the parents want to maintain a link with a preferred school outside the regular catchment area. In that case they pay the school fee to the bus providers on a weekly basis, usually a private provider. In that context, what is the scope with regard to the maintenance of those buses and in ensuring they conform to test standards? What is required is an audit of school buses with regard to the existing resource, mechanical deficiency and so on. The same should be done on the private side.

A special committee was set up after the tragedy in Meath a year ago but I understand that committee has met only once. Perhaps the Minister will confirm that. What has the committee achieved since then? As a result of what happened with the private bus in Offaly, the accident in Meath and the recent fire, where thankfully no one was hurt but it could have been catastrophic, people's minds are focused on the efficiency of our bus service and it behoves us to ensure we have an effective school bus service for our pupils.

Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy de Valera, to the House and compliment her on the work she has done in her Department. The Minister of State is responsible for school and she has made a major impact on that area over the past few years.

The Minister of State has told us that approximately 135,000 children use school transport with an additional 9,000 having a ticket to obtain transport by other means. She said also that 33% of those children availing of school transport have special needs and approximately 600 people are employed to escort those children. That is an important service. Those figures speak for themselves. It is a success.

Regarding catchment areas and school transport, bus routes should not be set in stone but there is reluctance to change routes in rural areas. Many children must go to a crossroads or junction to catch a school bus which then travels a road on which there are few houses. Many of those children may live on a nearby road and it would not add much mileage to put the bus on that road. From time to time parents approach us about changing routes, but for whatever reason, we do not seem to do so. We should consider the route which would allow the maximum number of children to be collected, even if it means a slightly longer journey.

I welcome the Minister of State's comments on safety and the steps she has taken on flashing lights on buses and introducing safety belts on all buses by the end of 2006. Whether a school is based in a rural area or a town, parents also have a responsibility. Many parents deliver children to school by car but they do not park their cars, they abandon them. School buses try to get in and out to collect and drop off children. This dangerous practice is not the fault of the bus drivers, it is simply that of irresponsible parents. The Department and the Garda Síochána should take action. Parking or abandoning cars should not be allowed within a defined area around a school.

The students themselves also have responsibility. In a recent case, a young person fell from a school bus through an emergency exit. Those buses are required to have emergency exits in the event of a crash. They do not spring open. Someone must interfere with the mechanism to open them. Parents have a major responsibility to outline to their children that they must sit down and stay in their seats on the school bus.

Recently, we had a sad occasion when a crash involving a school bus occurred in my county. We were extremely lucky that it led to only one fatality, although, unfortunately, one fatality is one too many. I am delighted the Minister of State mentioned that flashing lights can be used when children disembark from buses in rural areas, as fatalities have occurred. It is hoped the situation will improve.

A good State testing system is in place. People going for tests with buses or trucks have told me in the past that they had to get cracked glass on tail-lights or headlights replaced. We must do more spot-checking on bus drivers and ensure they are licensed and properly qualified. In the event of something happening to a bus, temporary replacements are used. That is not on. It would be better to leave the children at home than take a chance by using an inferior bus to transport them.

I thank the Minister of State for her work on school transport. It has been a major success for many years and many people are in extremely good employment because the Minister of State and the school transport system afforded them the opportunity to attend school. They may not have had that opportunity if the school transport system was not in place.

Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I thank the Cathaoirleach. I am delighted to be here to listen to the Senators' remarks. My overriding concern is safety. I hope the ethos of safety permeates the speech I gave earlier and, more important, the day to day work we do in the Department on all of the issues referred to today, particularly those on the three for two seats, seat belts etc.

Getting rid of the three-for-two meant we had to find further capacity for 3,500 students to ensure all eligible students had a seat. To put Senator Tuffy's mind at rest, all buses being introduced will have seat belts on them. I reiterate that as far back as May of last year I stated on RTE radio that we should go beyond the directive of 9 May, which only refers to the use of seat belts where they are provided. I felt we should have seat belts on all school buses.

Senator Norris also raised this issue. I stated we will have seat belts on all school buses and our target for doing so is December 2006. We will have a seat with a seat belt for each student. That was reiterated in a press statement the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Hanafin, and I issued last July. We are keeping up with those targets.

I am glad so many Senators referred to the flashing lights. All research shows that the real danger is within the vicinity of the bus when people are getting on or off. The information I received back from that pilot scheme is that it was extremely successful. I hope to roll it out throughout the country.

This is the first time we will introduce dedicated school buses, and a total of 20 will be introduced. Work on that started with the introduction of school buses in Meath and Kildare prior to the great tragedy of May of last year. Bearing in mind all of those accidents, I hope people understand the work we do in the Department emphasises safety first and foremost.

Reference has also been made to special needs. I make no apology to anyone for spending the necessary amount of money to ensure our special needs children have the same opportunities as everyone else to attend school. It is not true to state that all, or a great deal, of the money spent is on special needs. Yes, a large portion, one third, of the budget is spent on special needs children. However, even taking that one third out of the equation, the amount of money to be spent on school transport has doubled since 1997.

It is also important to point out that if a bus is second hand it does not mean it is not safe. At all times, we must ensure a maintenance regime is in place. An annual roadworthiness test applies to all goods vehicles as well as buses. It is carried out by designated garages on behalf of the Department of Transport, which has responsibility for legislation and regulation in this regard.

Ulick Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Is it an NCT test?

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Allow the Minister to continue without interruption.

Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I was just coming to that.

Bus Éireann also services its vehicles every 12 weeks or 10,000 miles, whichever comes first. Senator Burke and others raised the important point this afternoon of the independent review of Bus Éireann buses. It is incorrect for Senator Burke to state the Taoiseach made a statement under pressure to this effect in the Dáil earlier. The day before the Taoiseach made that statement in the Dáil, the Minister for Transport, Deputy Cullen, had already initiated discussions with CIE and Bus Éireann on this matter, asking for an independent review within Bus Éireann of the arrangements and systems in place for the management, operation and maintenance of its fleet, both owned and contracted. This was to ensure ongoing safety and roadworthiness. The Minister has asked that this review be completed as soon as possible, as he wants it at the earliest date possible.

A number of people raised the question of catchment areas and boundaries. I outlined the issues relating to this in my initial contribution. Where there is concession for students, it will be where there is room on a bus. That is on a term-to-term basis and has always been so. That is the current position. I do not accept that the arrangements for school transport last September were in any way a shambles. We were trying to phase out the three-for-two system. The Senators should give me a good time during a school year to phase it out.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It would not be August.

Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It would not be in the middle of school year. The teachers would realise it would cause even more disruption to the students if it was not done during the summer months.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I have spoken to people in VECs.

Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is important to point out that at the beginning of every school year there can and will be delays, as people see if they have a concessionary place on a bus. Many people eligible for buses do not let the Department know early enough to deal with the issue.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Why is it not flagged earlier?

Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That is the reason we had the problems relating to the three-for-two system.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

If the Senator does not obey the Chair I will ask him to leave the House.

Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Senator Tuffy referred to whether the target would be met on the three-for-two issue. Eligible people have not contacted the Department to let us know the position, and we cannot give away a place which is already designated for an eligible person unless we know that eligible person does not wish to take the place.

I refer particularly to the order on a school bus, a matter which Senator Ormonde and others raised. At the beginning of the next school year, when everybody is gearing up to go back to school, we will have an advertisement on television and other media emphasising the importance of wearing seat belts. We look forward to working with parents, teachers and students to ensure seat belts are worn and that the importance of wearing them is put across to students.

Senator Tuffy also mentioned our deadlines. We have begun the retro-fitting of seat belts on school buses. Some 20 per week are being fitted out. So as not to have further disruption within schools, we are ensuring that the major work on retro-fitting will take place during the summer months. The retro-fitting of seat belts where needed is on target for completion by December 2006, as promised.

Senator Tuffy may have had some difficulty understanding what I was saying with regard to the directive. The directive only goes so far, and we in the Department believe this is not far enough with regard to the school transport system. We wish to go beyond that directive. We will have far more stringent regulations, and we will have a seat belt for every child.

Vetting was another issue which was mentioned, and it is a very important issue with regard to codes of practice. Bus escorts are currently vetted, and arrangements are being made for the vetting of drivers. There is ongoing liaison with the Garda vetting office on the issue, as it has the responsibility in this regard.

Roadworthiness is top of our agenda, and I have explained the current situation and what the Minister for Transport, Deputy Cullen, is doing in that regard. I have explained the tests involved and the review which has been requested. I have referred to the importance of flashing lights and I hope to run such a system throughout the country. We are on target for providing seat belts for each child by December 2006, and we are on target with regard to the three-for-two system.

I assure the House that we are looking at every opportunity to improve safety with regard to school transport. We are open-minded in doing this, and we are prepared to listen to any proposal put forward. I disagree with the sweeping statements made by Senator Browne, where he stated that finances relating to school transport were "spiralling out of control". I assure the Senator that every penny we fight for in that part of the Department is used well. I make no apologies to anyone for looking for further funding as needs progress.

Fergal Browne (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That relates to the number of students.

Síle de Valera (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I want to refer to an issue which Senator Dooley raised, namely, the standards of the school transport scheme. The standards are very high, and those in the scheme must comply with all the rules and regulation set down by the Department of Transport. If Senator Dooley has evidence, he should let the relevant authorities know. None of us would stand over a situation as described by the Senator, nor would we wish to.

I thank Senators for the debate and giving me the opportunity to assure the House that we are continuing to do all we can to improve the safety of our transport system.