David Norris (Independent)

I am happy to welcome the Minister of State to the House. She and I are old colleagues from the days when we soldiered together on the former women's rights committee. We got on well and I think we still do. Although I will have some criticism, as others have said it is not a criticism directed personally at the Minister of State.

I recognise the difficulties in terms of expenditure, timescale and so on. It is appropriate because today's anniversary focuses people's minds on the tragedy involved when young lives are snuffed out. However, on that occasion it was not a problem of the school bus or the driver, as far as I can make out. It was principally a problem of the road surface. That is a real scandal, for which the Minister of State has no responsibility, and which resides with the local authorities. The situation regarding road surfaces is continuing and there will be further fatal accidents unless it is addressed.

I shall resist the temptation to travel in the general direction of road traffic which my honourable friend, Senator Fitzgerald, used to take the opportunity to score a couple of notable points on the subject of Garda interventions and shooting fish in a barrel. I agree with him but for me that is a slightly different debate, although the Senator used the latitude afforded by these statements to introduce those points. They are good points. I am not sure they relate as well as they might to the question of school safety, but it is an appropriate time to look at this matter.

One of the main issues I wanted to raise has already been raised in part at least by Senator Ulick Burke, namely, the roadworthiness of many of these vehicles. The Minister of State intervened to say they are being tested. If so, the test is not satisfactory, because over the past year or two we have all heard descriptions of buses with so much grass growing out of them that one could feed a herd of cows. One bus burst into flames. Other buses may be deemed roadworthy by some group but they are not even weather-proof. Last year, a group of courageous young schoolgirls in Donegal were so concerned about the decrepit condition of their bus and its absolute lack of roadworthiness that they refused to use it and walked to school on a regular basis. That story was broadcast over a couple of days. Those children were quite right.

The Minister says there is some form of test. That must be examined because it is a lousy test. Nor is it appropriate that school buses should be given a special test. I have also asked repeatedly, without ever getting a satisfactory answer, whether general buses are subject to a national vehicle test. Either they are not, or the test is unsatisfactory. An ordinary private vehicle with one little rubber stud missing from the inside of the boot will be failed by the NCT service. I know that because it happened to me, yet I see school buses pouring out black smoke which obviously have not been serviced for years.

We also have the record of the consumers, the young schoolgoers who constantly report on the state of the buses. Clearly, either no test is applied or a test is applied which is less stringent than that applied to cars. Furthermore, if we are concerned about the safety of adults using their own vehicles of their own free will, by choice, with no direct Government involvement, should we be much more concerned about whether the Government has accepted some degree of responsibility in providing school transport? That point must be considered. I raised it a number of years ago, as I did the issue of safety belts.

I appreciate some of what the Minister of State has said, but to adapt her leader's slogan, I would say "some done, lots to do". When I first raised the issue of safety belts, I was surprised and shocked with regard to the situation of parents of — I hope this is not politically incorrect — mentally handicapped children who would now be described as educationally disadvantaged for whom there were no safety belts on buses. Putting a child with an intellectual disability of some kind who may find it more difficult to follow instructions than an average student in such a situation was a recipe for disaster, particularly when three for two seating was operating on such buses, with no safety belts.

I raised that issue possibly four or five years ago and I am sorry to see it has not been addressed, although I give credit to the Minister for State for some moves in that direction. That is clear from her script. However, I am not convinced enough is being done. I assume too that when the Minister of State talks of the use of taxis, this is found to be more satisfactory, amenable, comfortable and appropriate for certain disadvantaged children.

I assume the paragraph of the speech which deals with safety is very carefully crafted. I know the Minister of State is no mean hand at linguistic skills — if that is not mixed a metaphor — but she says the safety record is a good one. Then comes an interesting phrase, "This is due in no small part to the skill of the school bus drivers and the expertise of Bus Éireann, which administers the service." In other words, it almost seems to be implied there that the professionalism of the drivers compensates to some degree for the decrepitude of the buses, which decrepitude is an established fact. We should not have to rely on the skills of the drivers, although we are grateful for them.

I am not suggesting the Minister of State is immune to safety concerns. That is made quite clear in the paragraph which followed, which is about flashing lights. This is a lovely idea because it is so simple, clear, practical and necessary, precisely because of the awful behaviour in which so many Irish drivers engage. When buses are pulling in, I have seen people passing them out on the inside. Children could be alighting from a bus, could be in positions where it is difficult to see them, so flashing signals are a good thing. A pilot project was launched in Ennis and I hope it will be extended because it is practical and simple.

With regard to the working group, it was stated that three for two seating on primary school bus services will be phased out by the end of December 2006. At least that is a commitment and a target date. However, as I raised this issue a number of years ago, I am rather taken aback that it is still on the burner. I would have hoped it would have been completed by now and I trust this is an absolute commitment to have it done by December 2006. I note too that the Bus Éireann buses must all be fitted with approved belts.

I found the Minister of State's speech interesting because of the references to the European Union conditions and standards obligatory as a result of EU directives. This worries me in a sense because though I may be misinterpreting, or there is a looseness of expression, I almost get a feeling from this that in terms of safety, we are doing what we are obliged to do by the EU. The Minister of State is vigorously shaking her head. Nevertheless, it makes it appear that we are obliged by the European Union to take these measures. We should be putting in place those measures a long time before we are obliged to do so.