Seanad debates

Wednesday, 10 December 2003

Report on Dublin and Monaghan Bombings: Motion. - Local Authority Funding: Motion.

 

10:30 am

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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I move:

That Seanad Éireann, noting that, since it took office, this Government has:

–abolished the first time buyer's grant;

–raised VAT on house purchases;

–presided over a tripling in the price of houses;

–and allowed the numbers awaiting local authority housing to rise to 52,000 households, comprising over 100,000 individuals

condemns the failure of the Government to adequately fund local government which forces local authorities to set punitively high development levies which will result in higher prices for new homes, hinder the development of new business and damage the competitiveness of the economy.

We have tabled this motion this evening out of frustration at a system which shamelessly and relentlessly targets the less well-off in our society. Rising house prices and the increasing lack of affordability of both rented and owner-occupied houses threatens general economic growth. A lack of affordable housing also detracts from the quality of life of people on modest or low incomes and on those with special housing needs, such as older people and people with a disability.

There is clearly a need for a strong housing policy response to the current housing problem. In a binge of outrageous pre-election spending in 2001, the Government blatantly squandered the riches of the Celtic tiger years in an orgy of excess and is now squandering the trust of the taxpayer and bolstering the haves at the expense of the have nots. Robin Hood may have robbed the rich to feed the poor but what will future generations say about this Government, which will go down in history as having repeatedly leaned on the less well-off to make up for its financial ineptitude? House buyers who have already lost the first-time buyer's grant are now facing punitive development levies which will see many priced out of the housing market, driving housing lists to even higher levels and forcing more people to become homeless.

This Government is nothing if not consistent. Stealth taxes, the supposedly hidden enemy of all beleaguered taxpayers, are now being followed by new development levies which are, in effect, the return of property tax by the back door. If the Government had its way, more people would find themselves unable to buy a back door, let alone a complete house. These levies will be the final nail in the coffin for house purchasers.

Currently, the Exchequer siphons off 41% of the purchase price of every new house sold. That amounts to nothing more than extortion by this Government. It is a disgrace and people have condemned what the Government is doing in terms of the high taxes it takes from house property. Based on an average new house price of €259,912, the revenue accruing to the State, including VAT and stamp duty, on each property is €116,381. The introduction of the new development levy will impose an additional €8,000 on each new house. In October of this year, the average house price nationally was up 14% on the same period last year and up 200% on 1996 prices. Nationwide, new houses are up by 12% on last year while the price of second hand homes is up a staggering 17%. The gap between prices in Dublin and those outside Dublin is now seven times higher than when the coalition took office.

Development levies in some local authorities are being increased by anything up to 300%. Currently, development charges attached to planning applications can be appealed to An Bord Pleanála but there is no appeal procedure in place to allow developers or house purchasers to challenge the charges being imposed by local authorities. Local authority charges are an off-shoot of inadequate Government funding for local authorities and follow such stealth taxes as bin charges, parking rates and water charges on business and farmers. Owners of homes in the countryside face bills of up to €600 every two years to provide certification that their septic tanks have been emptied by a proper contractor. That is something on which the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Cullen, has spoken in detail in recent times.

Yesterday's announcement, or conjuring trick, by the Government in respect of increased funding for local authorities can at best be welcomed and at worst dismissed as another pre-local election stunt. Either way, this U-turn by the Government, which comes in the wake of pressure from Fine Gael and other Opposition parties, does not mean that local authorities will be able to avoid imposing heavy charges on the general public. The Government is still telling the local authorities that if they are short of funds, they have to raise the revenue themselves.

In my county, the Longford county executive of the IFA is meeting tonight with all public representatives in County Longford to encourage them to oppose the Government's development charges. Farmers are particularly angered at the proposal instructing local authorities to seek between €10 and €20 per square metre on farm buildings of more than 250 square metres in development charges at a time when all agricultural enterprises are in a depressed state.

The Government is also proposing a charge of €500 to €600 per hectare for forestry. The president of the Irish Farmers Association has rejected the new local authority planning charges for farm buildings, stating that they will impose significant and unjust cost increases on farmers and their families for necessary farm building work. He also noted that building work is needed to upgrade farmyard facilities to comply with environmental cross-compliance and local authority by-laws and secure commercial viability following the Luxembourg CAP reform agreement. More power to the IFA, Macra na Feirme, the GAA and other organisations which are vocal in their opposition to the development charges.

The Government is forcing local authorities to seek taxation by the back door and chase all options to raise money through stealth taxes and increased direct charges and rates to meet their funding shortfalls, which are a direct result of the Government's benchmarking deal. The proposed new charges will add significantly to housing costs in rural areas, with the proposed charge for rural housing as high as €12,000.

The rent allowance supplement has become another victim of this cavalier attitude to the less well-off. Applicants must be renting for at least six months before they can apply for this allowance, creating another bureaucratic stranglehold on the needy. Mr. McCreevy could be compared to the artful dodger and his Government colleagues will long be remembered as—

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should use the title "Minister".

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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—pickpockets of the poor and most vulnerable in society. Last year, I referred to the Minister as the slasher when he introduced the budget. Last week, he introduced several stealth tax taxes and announced the decentralisation programme to bury the bad news in the budget.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Fianna Fail)
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I thought the Senator was known as the Longford slasher.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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What about those dependent on rental subsidies to enter the private rental sector with its prohibitive costs, such as young families waiting to be accommodated by local authorities? Health boards may refuse rent allowance to anyone not already renting for six months unless he or she is homeless. How are people supposed to pay high rents in private accommodation while they wait for the six months to elapse? This will drive many more people onto the homeless lists or the streets, a problem we witness nightly in close proximity to the House. More than 100,000 people, most of whom need to rent from the private sector, are seeking housing from their local authorities. Under the proposed changes, they will not be able to apply for rental subsidy for up to six months while they wait to be included on the priority list.

In 1997, the Fianna Fáil Party promised to increase the first-time buyer's grant to €6,350 for couples and accelerate the supply of new houses. In 1998-99, the Government promised to control the increase in house prices and in 2002 it promised to implement a multi-stranded approach to addressing housing needs across the spectrum.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator's time has concluded.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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If the Cathaoirleach would allow me, I could list many more promises made in the Fianna Fáil Party manifesto prior to the previous election.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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I cannot do so.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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While we all know the words of the Government in the run-up to the previous general election were cheap, for those dependent on it to take action to ease the housing crisis, they were a mockery. Promises have become this Government's hallmark, but empty words have a habit of coming back to haunt politicians. This country is tired of platitudes and worthless rhetoric. Fine words promised houses, schools, health and disability services and so forth. Where are they now?

It is a national disgrace that despite our comparative wealth and prosperity, we cannot provide accommodation for our homeless. Concurrent with the growth in waiting lists there has been minimal growth in the provision of local authority social housing, with overall stock since 1996 rising by only 4,395 units or 4.47%.

I support the motion and condemn the Government for its failure, yesterday's gesture aside, to adequately fund local government. As we are all aware, inadequate funding is forcing local authorities to set exorbitantly high development levies which will result in higher prices for new homes, leaving young families, the weak and the vulnerable in an increasingly intolerable position. These levies will hinder the development of new businesses, cause excessive hardship in rural areas and damage the competitiveness of our economy.

Photo of Maurice CumminsMaurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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I second the motion. "A lot done, more to do" was the Fianna Fáil Party's slogan prior to the last election. "A little done, much more to do" was CORI's response to the recent budget. Like a colleague from the other House, I suggest everybody feels done at this stage by this Government, especially people on local authority lists, those trying to buy their first house and the increasing number of homeless people who feel betrayed and abandoned by a Government which has targeted the poor and disadvantaged for cuts in expenditure, rather than the well-off who could bear the burden much more easily.

The cold and callous act of abolishing the first-time buyer's grant last year hit young couples hard. These are young people trying to put a roof over their heads for the first time and start at the bottom of the property ladder and for whom every euro is budgeted for and counts. This heartless, uncaring Government pulled the rug from under them and scuppered their plans to try to provide homes for themselves.

Robbing first-time house buyers of their grant was an appalling act, but the Government was not yet satisfied. Last year's budget increased the VAT rate, thus raising the cost of new houses. Now we have the scandal of an increase in the development charges levied by local authorities of between 100% and 500%, depending on the area in which one resides. While it may be argued that development charges have been imposed for years, local authorities have never before been put in a position where they were left with no option but to raise these exorbitant charges and, in so doing, put another nail in the coffin of first-time housebuyers, a group the Government should be encouraging, rather than trampling on by withdrawing grants, raising prices, increasing development charges and imposing an increasing number of stealth taxes.

It is a sad day when a Government resorts to extracting €58 million from the poorest and most vulnerable sections of the community to help balance the books. When these cuts, particularly the rental subsidy regulations, kick in, they will inevitably lead to greater homelessness and lengthening local authority housing lists. Housing statistics issued by the Minister of State's Department for March 2003 indicated that 48,413 households were on local authority housing waiting lists. This represents an 80% increase since 1996. The number of homelessness now stands at 5,234 compared to 2,501 in 1996, an increase of 109% and a damning indictment of the Government's policies on housing.

Senators on the other side of the House regularly provide meaningless monetary statistics comparing Government expenditure in 1996 to current expenditure. We are speaking here of real people and families. Waiting lists for local authority houses have increased by 80%, while homelessness has increased by 109%. These are the plain facts. There are some 5,000 households, or over 130,000 people, on local authority waiting lists and over 5,500 are homeless. What a record for any Government to have, especially this Government after witnessing a period of unprecedented economic growth. It seems the Celtic tiger years have passed by some sections of society. They have seen their lot disimprove, in stark contrast to the Punchestown set and the wealthy, who have benefited most from the right-wing policies of this Government.

Is it not a sad reflection on the lack of vision and commitment of this Government in the area of housing policy, that our capital city has one of the highest rates of homelessness in Europe? There are more people homeless in Dublin than in Birmingham, Manchester and Bradford combined. This is the legacy of the housing policy of this Minister and this Scrooge-like Government. Local authority lists will continue to grow as a result of the failure to substantially increase the allocation for various social housing and accommodation programmes. The inadequate allocations will ensure the Government will fail to reach its own inadequate targets for increases in the provision of social housing as outlined in the national development plan. It is another case of grandiose promises and announcements with no additional finance and a lack of vision and commitment to even reach their own low targets set in the plan.

The shortfall in 2004 is likely to be in the order of 2,500 to 3,000 units in the social housing provision. This is extremely regrettable considering the scale of the challenge that lies ahead in this area. The motion tabled by my party reflects the frustration felt by thousands of people on local authority waiting lists and the hopelessness felt by over 5,000 homeless people. It also reflects the growing anger of organisations working with the poor and the disadvantaged on a daily basis who have seen lip service rather than concrete action to solve the housing crisis.

I formally second the motion proposed by my colleague.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Fianna Fail)
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I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "That" and substitute the following:

"Seanad Éireann acknowledges the achievements of the Government in:

–increasing the resources provided to local authorities through the local government fund and through the buoyancy in their income from local sources due to the success of this Government's policies;

–ensuring that local authorities have adequate resources to service the land necessary for development, including industrial, commercial and housing developments;

–ensuring that the cost to the public purse of servicing land for private development is recouped in part from the persons developing that land;

–revising the long-standing system of levying development contributions to help fund local authority infrastructure to ensure it is implemented in a more transparent and consistent way across the country with a new role for the elected members of authorities in overseeing the system;

–focusing on increasing housing supply as the key response to the broad range of housing needs and demand;

–supporting record levels of housing output since 1997 with the prospect of a further record level of housing output being achieved in 2003;

–moderating the rate of house price increases;

and supports the continued action and commitment by the Government to adequately resource the local government system to underpin the continuing development and competitiveness of the economy."

I welcome the Minister and congratulate him on the very fine work he is doing on housing.

One of the great successes of this Government has been the creation of the local government fund which is ring-fenced as a source of funding for local government and is the key to the transformation that we are seeing in housing. The fund is financed from the proceeds of motor tax with the indexed Exchequer contribution. The fund has made over €1 billion available to local authorities in 2003 and will make over €1.2 billion available in 2004. Generally, the 2003 general purpose allocation of over €626 million was made from the fund. This transfers to local authorities adequate resources to enable them to provide day to day services, which is unprecedented. The amount being made available in 2004 is €752 million, an average increase of 14%, more than four times the expected rate of inflation. This buoyancy in the fund has enabled the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, to increase general purpose grants to local authorities by approximately 85% since the coalition came into office in 1997.

One of the issues here is planning, which has been raised in the House on many occasions, especially in smaller towns and villages. I know we have provided much money for water and sewerage schemes, but I see many studies on local authorities which refer to settlement centres in the smaller towns and villages. If one is setting a radius of 500 metres from the centre of a village for the purposes of development, the first thing to be done is the provision of sewerage, as I know many small towns where planning has been refused on the grounds of not having a sewerage scheme. This is something which I hope the Minister will examine. He has reduced the criteria for financial help to villages with a population of 1,000. He will have to reduce the criteria even further to help villages with even smaller populations, which I hope he will do.

I am very impressed with the figures I am reading in respect of spending on housing over the last few years. It has certainly been one of the successes of this Government that it has met the demand for housing, although it continues to be one of our major challenges. At the end of 1999 it was estimated that 500,000 new dwellings would be required over the ten years from 2000 to 2010 to meet the demand for housing. The Government has been successful in increasing the supply – the policies are having an effect. Since 1997, over 280,000 houses have been built nationally, with 2002 being the eighth consecutive year of record housing output, with almost 57,700 completions nationally, up 9.7% on the previous record achieved in 2001. Housing output in Dublin also reached a record level of 12,623 units built, an increase of 31.4%, in 2001. In the first six months of 2003 over 29,618 houses were completed nationally. All the indications are that we will have another record year this year for house completions.

I also know that house prices were increasing, which has been a major concern. In 1998, at their peak, prices were rising at an annual rate of 40%, but this has moderated significantly and I hope the Government will continue to provide a supply of houses that will maintain that moderation. We are very concerned about the housing situation and I hope the Government will have success on that front as well.

The development contributions, raised by Senator Bannon, have been misrepresented a lot in the media. These contributions have been in place since 1993, when the Planning Act was enacted. What is significant now is that the final decision for these development contributions rests with the elected members of local authorities, which is important. We have to provide public infrastructure and facilities that benefit an area. In the past they covered the normal public infrastructure like roads and sewers. In more recent times, and especially with the Planning and Development Act 2000, we now include community facilities, landscaping and public transport infrastructure under the development levy. It is important to discuss these issues as they are an important source of funding for local authority infrastructure.

In 2002, €151 million was collected in development contributions compared with €6.5 million in 1987. We must be aware of the importance of the levies and should also say that development contributions are not intended as a substitute for Exchequer funding.

These issues will be considered in a rational way. We see headlines stating that a €28,000 levy is being imposed in certain parts of the country, but that is not the way to go. In my county the levies being discussed are in the region of €4,000 to €7,000. The members have the opportunity to consider where the levies will come from and what the rate will be.

It is important to recognise the great work that has been done in the areas of voluntary housing, shared ownership schemes and so on. I compliment the NGOs which have provided housing through those schemes. It is important that this is happening in towns, but let us not forget the issue of one-off rural housing, which I mentioned, and the importance of providing infrastructure for smaller towns and villages in which people are being refused housing at present. If the Minister takes this into consideration, he will be looking after rural areas as well as towns.

Mary Henry (Independent)
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There is a crisis of homelessness in this country. There is a dire need for social housing, but in his budget speech the Minister for Finance did not mention either social housing or homelessness. These are serious issues, but they can be neglected because there is a feeling that there are no votes to be gained from dealing with them. To my sorrow, I find that in some areas in which social housing is to be built, there is a hail of planning objections. I regret that the plans of the former Minister for the Environment and Local Government, Deputy Dempsey, to ensure a social housing component in all new developments were delayed and reversed. It looks as though it will not be as popular as it was previously.

There are some urban myths going around. One is that all single mothers are immediately given houses – as soon as they announce they are pregnant houses are provided for them. I have just talked to somebody who has been on the housing list for nine years and she never sees any sign of obtaining a house. There are many young women in her situation. One of the saddest things about the budget was the serious cuts in the provision of rent allowance to young women who may be about to become single mothers and a large cut in child care and crèche allowances. These are in direct conflict with the recommendations of the Crisis Pregnancy Agency, which suggests that the one thing that must be done to prevent women going to England for abortions, something we all want, is to give them material support at the difficult times of their pregnancies and when their babies are just born. There can be major conflicts within the family and frequently, even in this day and age, people feel they must leave home.

We have set up an agency, costing a great deal of money, to promote options other than abortion, yet we totally ignore its suggestions about how this can be done. This is counterproductive and a waste of money. If social housing was built – I am not suggesting it should be given to people free but rented at a reasonable price – it would be a major step forward. This is a grave problem for many women.

Another group I have mentioned several times in the House although, again, there are no votes in this area, is the mentally ill. Senator Kitt mentioned NGOs which work in this area. I would describe them as charities because if charities such as the Salvation Army and the Simon Community did not step in, there would be even more mentally ill people on the streets. This is a serious problem. We must ask ourselves which comes first, the mental illness or the homelessness. If people have a mental illness it will become much worse while they are out on the streets. If they have been discharged into the community, as we all feel is best, from the mental institutions in which people used to be kept on a long-term basis and they do not have some sort of home, it is extremely difficult for the hard-pressed psychiatric carers within the community to keep an eye on them, encourage them to take their medication and so on. All we find is that they become more seriously ill and must be readmitted for acute care, perhaps having to stay in hospital for some time. If it were not for the charities there would be even more people on the streets.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The charities receive Government funding.

Mary Henry (Independent)
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It can be seen that the funding is obviously not enough if one walks up Baggot Street.

The last group I will mention is prisoners. As Members know, we have a very high recidivism rate of almost 90%. How important is it that so many people who are released from prison are not in a position to go back to their families, who have perhaps had enough of them? As we frequently see, theft, especially for those involved in drug abuse, begins in the family home. These people have difficulty finding social housing. There are many groups of vulnerable people in our society which have been badly let down and are still being let down by the Government.

Photo of Cyprian BradyCyprian Brady (Fianna Fail)
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I second the amendment and I welcome the Minister to the House. This Government and the previous one have probably done more to improve housing than any other in the history of the State. Perhaps the most obvious improvement has been in the standard and quality of local authority housing throughout the country. For example, in my area of central Dublin, in just one area committee patch, the transformation has been unbelievable. Areas such as Sheriff Street, Seán MacDermott Street and Summerhill have been transformed over the past ten years. People have left the damp, decrepit flats complexes and are in brand new housing. Nobody can tell me they want to go back to the way things were.

We have many examples of this around the city. In Liberty Corner, Dublin 1, a public private partnership was set up. The area now has an enterprise centre, dance studios and a municipal arts centre. These areas had been ravaged by drugs and inadequate housing, but have been transformed due to investment. People who say we squandered whatever benefits the Celtic tiger gave us should take a drive around Dublin city and they will see the changes that have taken place. Six more projects are to be completed in 2004 in one area committee in Dublin, which is smaller than a city council area.

The local government fund increases have been ring-fenced and this has worked. It has increased by 130% since 1997, which is a massive investment. It is not a squandering of funds but good management and it has paid dividends. Dublin City Council will receive €81.5 million in 2004, which is an increase of 11% on the total for this year and a 130% increase since 1997. Limerick's funding has gone up 132% since 1997. All this funding is going into providing parks, footpaths, lighting and housing. Over the years the fund has levelled the playing field for areas which did not benefit from improvements taking place in the economy. It has spread the benefits. There has been a large increase in the range and quality of services provided by local authorities. The legislative changes that have taken place, including executive functions for managers, have streamlined the system and the controls and regulations put in place by the Minister in recent legislation will ensure the continued input of all sections, including local representatives. For many years I have heard councillors complain that their function has been diminished. They oversee the implementation of charges. The councillors will decide on the level of the charges; that is and will always be their function. I agree wholeheartedly that developers should have to contribute to the provision of facilities, community facilities, playing pitches and so on. In my experience the vast majority of developers have no problem with making a contribution. The level of charges will have to be decided by March in all local authority areas. That is one of the myths advanced about the charges. We have heard all sorts of rumours about €28,000, €17,000 and so on but no decision has been taken. Councillors will have a part to play when decisions have to be made.

In 1997, local authority spending, excluding roads, was €500 million and in 2004 it will be €1.6 billion, which is a massive increase. It is important to remember that the charges do not substitute for central funding. Another of the myths put about is that the charges will continue to be increased until they replace the central funding from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. That is not the case.

On the issue of the provision of serviced land, we have all heard the cry that there are not sufficient houses. If a house comes on the market in my constituency, ten to 15 people look at it. The whole point of local authority funding is to provide serviced land. When one provides funding to increase the levies which pay for these services to be put in place, one is castigated for doing so. In the next breath people say there are not enough houses. One cannot have one without the other. There should be a balance between the two. The housing supply must be increased. House building has increased to such an extent that we have 57,695 houses, almost 10% up on last year. That is the fastest rate of growth in Europe. We are producing more houses than the UK per head of population.

Interest relief has been increased for first time buyers. There has been a huge improvement in affordable and shared ownership schemes throughout the country of which many young people are taking advantage. In my constituency there are a number of co-operative and social housing developments. This is another area of investment in which the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, through the local authorities, has gone out of its way. These are the policies of a so-called right wing Government. We have been accused of many things but on the figures before us we cannot be accused of this.

Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern, to the House. I agree with the spirit of the motion which states that the first-time buyer's grant has been abolished and VAT on house purchases has been increased. As a member of a local authority for the past 18 years, I fully empathise with and support the structure and the good work it does in the housing areas. In many cases the directives emanate from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. Many people find this issue difficult, particularly those building a house for the first time. In many cases some of the changes that have taken place in the Administration during the past two years have probably led to the escalating increase in the cost of houses. When the first-time buyer's grant of £3,200 was abolished, the Minister of State's colleagues protested loudly on the airwaves that this was a tragedy and a further deterrent to younger people who were attempting to build a house. That fizzled out and the first-time buyer's grant is gone. Last year VAT on house purchases was increased by an extra 1%. This impacts greatly on house building costs. This year the furore has waged around the various development levies. I recognise local authorities have a duty in regard to development levies and will have a role in deciding where the different projects will be located.

As previous speakers have said, we had an unparalleled boom in the past five years. When I refer back to the achievements in my local authority area there were some major sewerage schemes but also many projects that were not completed, including many small scale sewerage schemes in local communities. As I have said here frequently, this is a contradiction in terms given that workers on local FÁS schemes plant trees, put new footpaths and nice stone walls in place and so on, yet many people are leaving those villages for the simple reason that they cannot build. The most basic infrastructure is a sewerage scheme. The Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government would be criticised vis-à-vis the achievements over the five years in the area of the provision of sewerage schemes for many local communities in any county. I would be critical of that, but we did squander it in the provision of infrastructure.

The development levies have been in operation in Limerick County Council during the past year. In the planning permissions granted the levies ranged from €1,200 to €1,800. There appears to be uniformity depending on what local authority administers these charges but there is a wide variation from county to county. The projected charge for one off houses in my local authority is approximately €3,200. The reason for that charge is that the person lives in a rural area. What services does the local authority provide to a person who is building a house in a cul-de-sac? In many cases the local authority does not provide the water because such a person sinks his own well. Given that there are no sewerage facilities, he will probably pay €4,000 to install a biocycle system because planning permission will not be granted in most locations for a septic tank. The biocycle system is another major cost which is added to the overall cost of the house.

Given all the charges imposed, it is projected that approximately 39% of the cost of a house outside the Dublin area, goes back to the Government by way of various charges; the projected percentage is 44% of the capital. It is fine to say an unparalleled number of houses are being built as this is possible as a result of the boom in the economy, but for the person building for the first time there are many disincentives and barriers. I recognise local authorities have been screaming for more powers and to a certain extent a devolution of powers is beginning to evolve. That is important. On the issue of the development charges which should be kept on a small scale, whereas I would be critical of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government for not achieving in the past and failing to provide sufficient funding to local authorities, these are now the responsibility of local authorities and they will have an input. In my local authority I would like to see many sewerage schemes being put in place in communities which were not considered in the past. This is an indictment of the level of spending in those areas in the past.

I do not understand Government policy sometimes. Much attention has focused on the social welfare cuts and the €56 million being saved. I try always to be objective in my analysis of a situation, but I cannot understand the six months barrier before one is considered for rent supplement. I predict the number of homeless people will be exacerbated owing to that restriction. I understand the Department's concern about landlords being the beneficiaries of the rent supplement and, therefore, escalating rental costs. However, there are other ways of tackling the problem than using a crude blunt instrument. Senator Henry was correct when she said these people do not vote. In that case, do they count? Perhaps politicians have a black spot in regard to that segment of the community. This is reflected in recent Government decisions. The Government is fortunate that the decentralisation programme was such an effective smoke screen in deflecting attention from a budget which contained punitive restrictions that mean people will pay more in the future. The Minister of State said that the comprehensive homelessness strategy would be implemented. What is this strategy? Does the six month rent supplement restriction form part of it?

There has been a welcome recognition of the changing social profile of the State, with lone parents and deserted wives being taken into account. In a recently completed housing development in Newcastlewest, much of the development was made up of two bedroom apartments. That is timely because society and housing patterns have changed. Some of the measures taken by the Government in recent times have not acted as an incentive to first-time house buyers.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The Opposition motion seeks to criticise the Government's record on three separate but related areas, local government funding, development contributions and housing and I will deal with these separately.

Senator Bannon was all over the place when he introduced the motion. He spoke about the poor who need housing but in the next breath was more worried that developers would have to pay a contribution.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State is wrong. As usual he was not listening.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I stayed silent while the Senator was speaking but he can heckle if he wants. He said that we squander money and spoke about providing for the less well-off. In 2002 the money spent on housing was not squandered because it provided housing for those very people.

Contrary to what the Opposition would say, the funding of local government has undergone a transformation in recent years. The Government is more than proud of its record in this area since we entered office in 1997. In 1998, we set up the local government fund as a ring-fenced source of funding for local government. In 2003, general purpose allocations of over €626 million were made from the fund, an unprecedented level of funding. With the growth of the fund we have been able to increase general purpose grants to local authorities by 85% since 1997. In 2003, the fund provided €394 million towards non-national roads, a doubling of grants since 1997.

The budget saw the provision of an additional €30 million for the Exchequer contribution to the local government fund for 2004. Yesterday my colleague, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, announced a €752 million funding package for local authorities for next year, an increase of 14% on 2003.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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A game play for election year. The electorate was conned last year with the promise of 2,000 extra gardaí. Where are they?

Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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Wait until 2005.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Inflation is now below 3% and we are giving an increase of 14% next year, a total of 85% since 1997.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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The con job will not work next time.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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While spending for Dublin has increased by 11% and by 14% in most other areas, County Longford received an increase of 16.5% yesterday and, since 1997, the increase in funding adds up to 165%, far more than the average. Other counties have also done well.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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Will the Minister of State give me the same guarantee for next year?

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I realise local authorities have additional expenses this year but these huge increases, five times the rate of inflation, will pay for benchmarking and leave plenty more for efficient running of services and new projects.

All in all, this represents an excellent outcome for the local government sector. The result of the new funding system is that local authorities are operating on a sound financial footing. I expect to see some good work next year, not just the maintenance of existing services.

Capital funding also increased during the lifetime of this Government. In 1997, the value, excluding roads, of Exchequer public capital programme expenditure in Estimates for the then Department of the Environment was marginally in excess of €500 million. The Abridged Estimate for the Department for 2004 will contain comparable expenditure of €1.6 billion for the same services. Virtually all this expenditure will be advanced to local authorities for a range of services which are mainly infrastructural.

The announcement of the capital envelopes initiative in the budget will bring more certainty to the financing of multi-annual programmes, as well as more flexibility in the carryover of funding from one year to the next. While there may have been good funding of projects previously, people were not sure what would happen in the future. With an overall investment envelope of almost €34 billion in the five year period to 2008 our infrastructure will continue to be modernised in a planned and systematic manner.

Developers have paid development contributions since 1964, they are nothing new. They contribute towards the cost of the infrastructure necessary for all new developments. If they were not levied, the total cost of servicing land for house and office building would fall on taxpayers and rate payers. Without contributions, local authorities would not be able to invest in the facilities, such as parks and playgrounds, that make our communities better places to live. We all know it is not just about building houses, it is about building communities and giving them the services and facilities that allow them to grow.

Until now, the city and county manager decided how much to levy in contributions. Rates were not published and no justification was needed. This system was rightly criticised at local authority level. The Oireachtas, with cross-party support, introduced a new, transparent system in the Planning Act 2000. This system will offer predictability to developers because they will know in advance how much they have to pay in development contributions.

The new system of development contribution schemes gives elected members in each authority the opportunity to be involved and to set the policy for development in their city or county. The final decision setting the levies for each type of development now rests with the elected members of each local authority. Councillors, therefore, have a new and important role in delivering better communities.

Last June, the Department issued a detailed circular to each planning authority that gave advice on how to make a development contribution scheme. We did not tell local councils how much to charge. On levels of contributions, the Department's circular was clear. It outlined that while it is expected that the planning authority should ensure that developers make an appropriate contribution towards the costs of public infrastructure and facilities, the local authority should take care to avoid development contributions that are excessively high. Although this may maximise funding for projects, it can also lead to negative social and economic pacts, such as excessive development contributions pushing up housing costs, therefore decreasing developer interest or affecting the affordability of houses. We do not want that to happen and there is no reason why it should happen. We have advised councils and we should leave it to them to get on with the job which they are doing. Already several of them have set their levies. Last week my local council chose to increase the level over the manager's recommendation and to exclude affordable houses. Fine Gael councillors on the seven or eight councils which have done their business have been very supportive and in most cases where there was a vote have been quite sensible and have supported the levy. I am glad of that and obviously there is more sense among Fine Gael representatives on the councils than among those in here. They are getting on fine without us even though we are no longer—

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State is pulling the wool over the eyes of the public.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Order please.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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I am talking about young people buying their first homes.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Bannon made his contribution. He should not be interrupting.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I do not agree.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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He is hoodwinking the public.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I do not agree that house prices will rise. Levies have existed for the last 30 years and it is important that these extra costs—

Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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Does the Minister of State think the builder is going to absorb them? If the levies increase the prices go up. The Minister of State should cop himself on.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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—are absorbed by the developers and a little bit of competition between developers and house builders would do no harm whatsoever. In other countries, such as England, one pays development costs for schools as well as for the playground or local amenity. The key to defeating house price inflation is supply, and the development contribution system is crucial to providing the necessary services for land to build houses as well as the additional facilities that make it attractive to live and work in a place.

Our success in increasing house supply is reflected in the fact that house construction has increased so significantly in recent years. The figure for last year was 57,700 new units. We announced figures earlier this week for the first nine months of this year and they are up 15% to 16% on that figure. Figures often do not seem very meaningful but ten years ago we built 22,000 dwelling units while this year it will be 60,000 or more. That is an extraordinary increase. One will not find the like of it anywhere in the EU or in the developed world.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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That is just guesswork.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Senator Brady mentioned the international index of new dwelling units built per 1,000 head of population. We stand at 15 new units per 1,000. That is way ahead of any other European state. The corresponding figure for the UK is three, for Sweden is one and for Portugal is nine. No other country is at double figures. Our rate of building of new houses is extraordinary. In ten years we have gone from 22,000 a year to over 60,000 this year. Everyone in the system, the Government, local authorities and builders, should acknowledge that they have been successful in that respect.

Homelessness has been mentioned. Government tries to provide the strategy, the plan and the money.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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The Government has no policy on homelessness.

Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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It is contributing to homelessness.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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We do. We have two strategies on it. Four years ago—

Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State should tell that to the Minister for Social and Family Affairs.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach:

Allow the Minister of State to speak without interruption.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Four years ago we were spending about €12 million a year on homelessness. This year we have spent €50 million.

Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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It is getting worse.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Much of that rests on definition. About 130 people sleep rough on the streets occasionally, by their own definition. They are not all out there every night. Many sleep rough for a few nights and then in hostels for a few nights. The definition of homelessness has changed in recent years and more people are on the list now than would previously have qualified. It is not just about putting a roof over people's heads. Many homeless people have very complex personality and addiction problems.

Photo of Paul BradfordPaul Bradford (Fine Gael)
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Blame the homeless.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Years ago they were in psychiatric hospitals, now they are out in the community and the question is whether we are providing the services for them at all stages. We need integrated service packages of housing, care and support. There are enough emergency beds for anyone who wants one. The problem is moving these people on to transitional or half-way housing. Many will need care and different levels of support.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State is admitting neglect.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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We have a strategy, part of which is to look at the causes of homelessness, for example, people coming out of prison, long-stay psychiatric hospitals or any other institution.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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There is no structure of after-care services for those people and he has admitted to it.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach:

Allow the Minister of State to speak without interruption.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State should do something about it.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I have mentioned the rent allowance which is in the remit of the Minister for Social and Family Affairs. It was obvious that some move had to be made on that. Rent allowance money this year has increased by €76 million.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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These are the most vulnerable people. The Government could give €15 million to a race course at Punchestown. Its priorities are wrong.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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That level of rent allowance is unsustainable. We all know that many or most of the people on rent allowance need the accommodation. The guidelines or rules under which the Minister's system is brought in will look after those people who are in need. Those who are homeless or are in danger of becoming homeless will be protected.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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The charitable organisations are not saying they will be looked after.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The six month rule will not apply in all cases, if people are genuine and have a real need. It is extraordinary—

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State does not trust Irish people any longer.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach:

Allow the Minister of State to speak without interruption.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Rents in the private sector have gone down in the past year yet rent allowance payments have gone up to €76 million. A year or two ago landlords did not want health board cheques but now they will take them because there are vacant units. It was obvious that a disproportionate number of people received rent allowance in the past year and it was necessary to take some measure to clip the wings of those who were not needy cases.

Increasing the supply of serviced residential land through targeted initiatives and the commitment of Exchequer funding has paid off and based on 2002 output levels there is approximately a six year supply of serviced land available. The Government has also responded to the needs of first-time buyers in other ways, including its continuing commitment to the shared ownership and affordable housing schemes.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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It will do this by abolishing grants as it did last year.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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These are making very good progress, as is the new scheme under Sustaining Progress. All are making a significant impact. The housing provision for next year announced in the recent Estimates has gone up by 5.5%, which is one of the biggest increases. The overall housing package will be €1.88 billion next year and that will allow for 5,000 starts under the main local authority programme, which is an increase of 500 on this year, and the voluntary housing sector is now providing between 1,500 and 1,600 houses a year. While there are 48,000 people or families on the waiting list, the needs of between 12,500 and 12,700 will be met this year and next year. That is a very significant number. Even when people like to cite the 48,000 on the waiting list, in comparing that with ten years ago it is necessary to compare like with like. Ten years ago if one was single one would not qualify to get on the list unless one was receiving the old age pension. Now the system has changed. It is much easier to get on the waiting list and one is not comparing like with like when referring to the situation ten years ago.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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This is the real world and we are talking facts.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Some 30% of people on the waiting list are single while another 32% are lone parents with one child. Therefore, some 62% of those on the waiting list are either single or lone parents with one child. Just under 20% of families on the waiting list in Fingal and south Dublin local authority areas are non-nationals who have been given asylum status or the right to stay here. Those families were not on the waiting list ten years ago. If one states that the number on the waiting list has increased by X% or Y% compared to some years ago, one is not comparing like with like.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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My colleague, Senator Henry, said that she knew a person in Dublin who has been on the waiting list for nine years.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Matters have changed greatly. Did that person get an offer of a house in the meantime? I know of people who have been on the waiting list for 20 years. They hope to build a house in the field across the road from the mother of one or other partner, but they are not in immediate need of accommodation. I talked to county managers and obtained details concerning such families and have been told that three or four offers of houses have been made to them, but have been turned down. Some people stay on the waiting list hoping that they will get the house of their dreams in the ideal location. I own my house, as many others do, but people cannot always afford to buy a house where they would like to live.

The real need of many such people could be examined. I am not saying people do not have a right to be on the waiting list. They have and I sincerely hope they get the house of their dreams, but many people have received a number of offers of a house. If I wanted to, I could probably bring in a rule providing that if a person refuses two offers of a house, he or she will be taken off the waiting list. I am not considering any such measure. Simply because there are 48,000 people on the waiting list does not mean that number of people are in crying need of accommodation.

Another major development is the introduction of legislation on the private rented sector giving rights and protection to tenants in accommodation after a six month period. It will be introduced in this House as soon as it has been passed in the Dáil.

What we have done in terms of local government funding and in housing provision is a record of success. The new role for councillors in regard to development levies represents an enhancement of their role, which they accept. Such a measure has been passed by members across party lines in seven or eight councils without any hassle. They have been very responsible.

For the reasons I outlined, I commend the amendment to the House. Good work is being done and people around the country are far more sensible than we are or pretend to be in here because they know the job facing them and are aware of the need for the provision of facilities. Years ago we heard about builders building houses and leaving estates without carrying out landscaping or providing any facilities. Councillors know the value of not only building houses but building communities. That is what it is all about and the introduction of development levies will allow councils to build houses, facilities and communities where people can rear their families and have a good quality of life. Councillors know that damn well.

Photo of Michael McCarthyMichael McCarthy (Labour)
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I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I do not agree with his statement that the Government has a proud record on housing. In the ten years the parties in Government have been in office, the position regarding housing has gone out of control. The number of people, particularly young people, who cannot afford to buy a house at today's prices and whose financial position does not enable them to qualify for a mortgage at one end of the spectrum and at the other end there is the spiralling increase in house prices. This has created a niche, which is unfortunate. We are familiar with other systems in place, and the Minister of State referred to the cutting back in the rent allowance scheme, which was a retrograde step. It affects people living in accommodation in respect of which a subvention was paid by the State. That subvention represented an important segment of the finance that allowed such people to live in rented accommodation while waiting to be housed by a local authority

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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That change does not affect anybody in rented accommodation.

Photo of Michael McCarthyMichael McCarthy (Labour)
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It does.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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It applies only to new applicants.

Photo of Michael McCarthyMichael McCarthy (Labour)
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A consequence of this measure will be that some people will be living on the streets. If a person renting a unit at a fairly high rent, given that everything seems to cost a high price today, loses his or her job and disposable income, which would have allowed that person to remain in that unit, and on applying for rent supplement is not granted it, he or she will have to leave that unit. That is the harsh reality.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Not if the person is living there for more than six months.

Photo of Michael McCarthyMichael McCarthy (Labour)
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The full extent of the impact of that decision will be known in due course. When one notes the record set by the Government, one would not expect anything different.

Some 12 months ago almost to the night, we had a debate on the abolition of the first-time buyer's grant. Of all the decisions by the Government, that one is particularly mean and cruel. That grant of €3,800 did not represent a great deal of money in terms of house prices, but one has to consider the way young couples, in particular, factored in that grant in terms of building a profile that would allow them to take out a mortgage and ease some of the financial pressure they were under, but the first-time buyer's grant was abolished in one fell swoop. That was disgraceful and there is no defending that decision. There were many other ways of raising required revenue, if that was the intention behind abolishing the grant, apart from that measure which affected young couples who wanted to climb on to the property ladder.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Several people said that it was a contribution towards the prices charged by developers.

Photo of Michael McCarthyMichael McCarthy (Labour)
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We are dealing with arch conservatism and one would not expect anything less. Some 12 months later the Government cut back on the rent allowance scheme. That defies belief.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Is the Senator worried about the landlords?

Photo of Michael McCarthyMichael McCarthy (Labour)
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If the Members on the Government side were on this side of the Chamber and we were on their side and guilty of the same heinous crime, we would have to nearly wear ear muffs because the roars from them would be so loud.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Michael McCarthyMichael McCarthy (Labour)
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I am sure Deputy Ormonde will get an opportunity to convey her point. Some 16,000 home buyers were awaiting payment of that grant prior to its abolition. I understand additional inspectors are being appointed. That matter should be proactively followed up to ensure there is an appropriate conclusion for those who were lucky in the interim period.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Those concerned need to hurry up – April is the deadline.

Photo of Michael McCarthyMichael McCarthy (Labour)
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There is still hope for those concerned and I hope the payment of their grants will be made speedily.

The number of people on the waiting list is an indication of the extent of the housing problem. Great improvements have been made in terms of local authority housing schemes in recent years, although not as many as we would like. As soon as there is an improvement in terms of buildings, the housing list begins to swell for obvious reasons. Comparative numbers on the waiting list in the western division of Cork County Council between November this year and March last year show a huge increase in the number of people deemed appropriate applicants. The current figure is 1,116, whereas in March 2002 the figure was 594. That is due to a number of obvious reasons, but a doubling of the number of people on the housing list in that division is a frightening statistic. A breakdown of categories of applicants is given, be they single parents with one child or single parents with two children. As always, there is a high number of single males on housing lists. That is a trend I followed for some time when I was a member of the council. In terms of deciding who is fit for an allocation, the decision always militates against elderly single men in particular, which is unfortunate. When I was elected to the council there were a number of people who wanted public representatives, particularly councillors, to make representations on their behalf regarding the housing list. In all honesty, if they were single elderly men, one could not eyeball them and tell them they would get priority because they would not.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The elderly will qualify if they are senior citizens.

Photo of Michael McCarthyMichael McCarthy (Labour)
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Absolutely, even if they are in that particular category. I am not being ageist, but in terms of the age profile of such applicants, they are significantly higher than the normal applicant.

There were such a high number of male applicants that the local authority designated a scheme of ten houses to people in that category, and also to single females. That was universally welcomed in the community. While allocations meet the need of a number of people and bring untold happiness to those who are lucky enough to get them, those who do not get such an allocation remain unhappy. With regard to this particular case, I had never witnessed an allocation on which there was universal approval. All those allocated a house in that scheme were genuinely decent people on low incomes who had worked all their lives and such allocations were a recognition of their status by the local authority, which was welcome. I do not know if it is possible for a Minister to do this, but the issue of parity and equality in the allocation of units should be examined in the longer term. It stands to reason that someone with a number of children in bad accommodation should get a house, but we should not discriminate against single applicants.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Such matters are in the hands of councils. They are supposed to provide houses having regard to needs.

Photo of Michael McCarthyMichael McCarthy (Labour)
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I take the point made by the Minister of State. In some cases I would have taken a different view from the one I take now. I do not know if this matter is something that could be pursued in terms of a national or departmental policy. I would welcome a fairer system or one that strives to be fair.

There has been much discussion of development charges. Most of us are aware that development charges for building sites and estates have always existed. Of concern now is the rate at which these charges will increase, due to the manipulation of section 48 of the Local Government (Planning and Development) Act. In the case of a charge of perhaps €1,200 or €1,300, it was reasonable to expect someone to pay such a fee because of the costs of infrastructure such as footpaths, sewerage and water and so on. The Act is now being used to implement a type of development tax. If the figure suddenly jumps from about €1,000 to more than €5,000, which is the type of rise likely in my constituency, that is a major increase. It may prove a crucial sum in terms of getting a mortgage.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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That is a case of builders lying again. Why is the Senator so supportive of developers?

Photo of Michael McCarthyMichael McCarthy (Labour)
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In recent times we have seen that the consumer very often has to pick up the tab. The increased charges are a retrograde step. This major increase will stretch budgets that are already tight and will result in some people being unable to buy their own houses.

One could fill the House with housing reports, but there is a pattern in them which shows that building material costs and construction charges have remained almost static. In some cases there may have been an increase of as little as 0.6% while the increase in the cost of the house could be as much as 10% or 15%. This is a serious anomaly. The house cost increase is due to the very high price of building land. There has been much debate about that issue, but it needs to be tackled. If we do not tackle it and do not look at the component factors such as the provision of infrastructure and the cost of building land and materials, we will end up with a situation that is unacceptable to those seeking houses or to the decision makers who must deal with the matter. I am aware that this debate has been going on for some time in the Dáil, but we need to consider capping the price of building land. I may be wrong, but I believe the Taoiseach suggested the possibility of a referendum on the issue next June.

The housing issue is worrying. We need only look at the reports, observations and pre-budget submissions of many of the voluntary agencies such as Threshold and the Society of St. Vincent de Paul. All those involved have professional expertise. They are committed to the matters they deal with and have vast banks of knowledge. When they tell us there is a housing problem, we need to listen. One can expect Opposition Members to point to problems, but those people are at the coal face. They have the data and the statistics. People come to them requesting houses. Action is needed.

Michael Brennan (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern, to the House and I congratulate him on his work in the housing offices of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.

The Government can stand proudly over its performance since it came to power in 1997. In 1998 the Local Government (Planning and Development) Act introduced reforms which transformed financing from central government by providing a buoyant source of income to local authority funds. Since its establishment, €208 million more than the level required by indexation has been provided by the Government. In 2003 general purposes allocations of over €626 million have been made from this fund. In 2004 the figure will be €752 million. This transfer to local authorities is unprecedented. General purpose grants to local authorities have increased by 85% since 1997. The fund also provided €394 million towards non-national roads in 2003, a doubling of such grants from 1997 to 2003. This was a fine achievement by the Government.

Exchequer capital spending on local authority and social housing in 1997 was €214 million. In 2004, similar supports will amount to €930 million. Taking inflation into consideration over this period, the increase in funding is dramatic. The Government's success in increasing supply is reflected in eight consecutive years of house completions. From 1997 to 2003, some 280,000 houses were built nationally. That is a big change from the time when Senator Bannon's party was last in Government, when builders were closing daily until Fine Gael fell from power.

We will meet the challenge of providing the 500,000 dwellings required from 2002 to 2010. We will invest in infrastructure to bring more serviced land into use. These policies will combine with expansion of affordable housing schemes and the development of the voluntary housing sector. The total housing provision in 2003 is €1.8 billion, four times the amount provided in 1997. From 2000 to 2003, €5.9 billion has been provided for housing.

The Government will maintain a high level of house supply to meet the strong demand and in this way seek control of increased prices. Affordability is the key. From 2000 to 2002, some €3.08 billion, which is 109% of the national development plan forecast for social and affordable housing measures, has been spent by the Government in this area.

The Government has increased the total housing provision for 2004 by 5.5%, bringing it to €1,885 million despite pressures on public finances. The 2004 provisions will allow 5,000 housing starts under the main local authority programme, an increase of 500 from the 2003 level. A further 500 units will commence under the area regeneration programme. Together with the voluntary and co-operative housing sector, this will allow for the needs of about 12,500 households to be met in terms of social and affordable housing measures over the period of the housing programme, compared to 8,500 in 1998.

The Government has provided record financial support for local authorities, which have never been better funded to carry out their housing work. Local authority members will have greater responsibility in reviewing the planning system to ensure transparency and to create a greater role for the future development of their areas. Development contributions have been a feature since 1964 and they allow local authorities to fund part of the costs of infrastructure necessary to facilitate new development in terms of roads, water, sewerage services, amenities and community facilities. These contributions apply not just to housing, but to all developments. They give local authorities the power to recoup a fraction of the costs to back the public funds for servicing this land being bought by developers.

Are the Senators on the Fine Gael benches suggesting that builders should not pay a fee for the provision of this infrastructure to service their developments? The fee is a small portion of the costs. These extra allocations are being put in place by local authorities throughout the country. They will be put to good use in implementing county development plans developed by all parties. There is an obligation on us to be serious about the further development of our country. This Government will take such development seriously.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I had not intended to take part in this debate because I must go to a lecture on the erosion of human rights inside America by the US Government of President Bush. That lecture is not until 7 p.m. so I have time to say a few words and to vote.

This is a very important debate. It is a little dreary when people read prepared statements supplied by Departments. There is some slight evidence that may have been happening in the House today. Important issues are involved. I am somewhat divided between the two sides of the argument. I see merits in the motion itself because the abolition of the first-time buyer's grant is something that worries young people coming into the market. On the other hand this cushioned developers. When they saw it they snaffled it and – I am rather fond of this word so I will use it for the second time today in the House – trousered it themselves. There may be an argument for removing the grant.

There is a worrying increase in the price of housing. One need only look at Thursday's property supplement in The Irish Times and see the "Five At" column. For €500,000 one can get a converted lavatory with a corrugated tin roof on the North Circular Road in Dublin, a villa in Florida or an estancia in South America. If this bubble bursts people will have negative equity and houses will be repossessed. Controlling the price of houses and the rate of increase is important and in everybody's interest because those who already have equity in housing may find their inflated equity destroyed when the bubble bursts. This is something to be looked at with a great deal of care.

We have a slightly different view of housing from many other European countries. We appear to believe that it is a human right to be afforded a house by the State. This is unusual. In most European countries, for example, people live in apartments. Possession of a house provided by the State hardly qualifies as a human right.

However, one is entitled to shelter and this is an area where the State has maximum responsibility because it is one where there are people in considerable difficulty. Single people, and particularly single men, are a vulnerable group. There is a concealed discriminatory element here because gay people are always seen as single and are not entitled to be seen as part of a couple. This means that no gay person is likely to have housing provided by the State. This needs to be examined. I do not suggest that AIDS is a gay disease but in the early days of this infection a disproportionately high number of gay people had AIDS. They need housing. It is awful to think that people who are in recovery, thanks to the triple drug therapy, are in dire need of housing and that local authorities ignore them.

I compliment the Lord Mayor of Dublin, Mr. Royston Brady. I was abroad when he made his interesting gesture. People may say his action was mere PR, but it was extremely good and positive PR and the kind of thing people like to listen to and read about. It was picked up by the BBC, where I heard it. The Lord Mayor offered the facility of the Mansion House to a homeless couple for their wedding and also managed to secure accommodation and shelter for them. That is laudable.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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It would be a pity if it were just an exception done for political purposes, but I do not believe it was. I believe it was a good-hearted gesture which illustrates what we all feel – that people are entitled to be out of the elements, especially at this time of year.

I go every Sunday to St. Patrick's Cathedral. Last Sunday a special prayer was said for a man called Edward. His name is all I know about him. I asked why they prayed for him and I was told he was found dead on a patch of waste ground near the Cathedral. He used to come into the Cathedral just to be near other people. This is the kind of extreme dealt with by organisations like Focus Point and the wonderful people who go around with soup runs. I came across an idea in a casual meeting with Anne Connolly from the Simon Community and an architect friend of hers. It is something the Government could look at in partnership with private industry. A series of container trucks could be fitted out as accommodation, driven to the places where homeless people congregate so that they could be out of the winter weather and given food and clean bedding. The trucks could then be driven away, hosed down, cleaned out and brought back at night. They would not be a visual obstruction or an unpleasantness because they would be on the streets when the city is fairly dormant in the areas where homeless people live. This is an interesting and useful idea. It would provide shelter for these people, remove them from the anxiety of having to provide for themselves in cardboard boxes and from the indignity and reproach we all feel as citizens when we see these things happening.

The cost of land must be tackled by the Government. There has, traditionally, been a suspicion that Fianna Fáil is a little too close to the construction industry, that the relationship is too comfortable and that too many contributions have been made. I do not say this in antagonism. I am not a member of the Opposition. I am Independent. It is in Fianna Fáil's interest to tackle this matter and to make it clear that this cosy relationship does not exist and that Fianna Fáil is prepared to take on people who are skimming off money from people who can least afford it, by charging excessive prices for land.

I support the Minister of State's policy on development levies. Of course people who develop should pay levies. Why should the taxpayer pay for sewerage and infrastructure? This is an appropriate method of funding these services.

The Minister of State also referred to playgrounds. A wonderful playground has been provided in Gardiner Street, near where I live. It is heartening to see so many members of the community with their children, looking after them, protecting them and helping them to use the equipment. It is splendid and it brings life to the community.

We heard much about decentralisation. How about recentralising a few things into the north inner city, a constituency and a community the Minister of State and his brother know well? Every single northside Department is to be decentralised.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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That is quite right.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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We have been given all the drug rehabilitation units, homes for single mothers and everything that is socially positive but which the middle classes do not want near their back or front doors. Let us have something nice in the form of Government investment in the north inner city of Dublin.

Irish citizens are unusual in our belief that we have a right to a house. I am not sure how absolute that is as a human right. I listened to an analysis of this matter on the BBC. We are unusual in the amount of local authority housing we provide. Is 60,000 the correct figure for this year?

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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That is the total number of housing units built this year.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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It is an astonishing number of houses. Astonishment was expressed by a British commentator that such a high proportion of our housing need was being built in these circumstances and at this time.

There are some elements of the Opposition motion with which I agree but let us give credit where it is due, recognise the real situation and tweak policy so that in those areas where it is not meeting the human needs of the citizens it does so in a new and refreshing way. There is no point in pretending that houses are not being built when they are being built.

Photo of Ann OrmondeAnn Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State to the House and compliment him on his grasp of this area and his feel for the subject. I know he speaks from his own experience as a member of Dublin City Council for many years.

I also served more than 19 years as a member of a local authority and I have seen the achievements to date. Nothing happened between 1985, when I became a councillor, and 1993.

Photo of Paul BradfordPaul Bradford (Fine Gael)
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Four times as many local authority houses were built.

Photo of Ann OrmondeAnn Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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Nothing was happening. I am speaking for myself and Senator Bradford can speak for himself if he wishes. I have seen the changes and transformation that have taken place because of funding.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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Where is the Senator getting her facts?

Photo of Ann OrmondeAnn Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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Between 1997 and 2003, funding has been increased by 85% and that is a fact. The quality of non-national roads—

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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We are speaking about housing tonight.

Photo of Ann OrmondeAnn Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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I just want to talk about funding and infrastructure. Capital spending has increased and that is the bottom line. That is the reality and I want to have my say.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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It was generated but badly spent.

Photo of Ann OrmondeAnn Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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I did not interrupt Senator Bannon. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has recently announced another package of €752 million.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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There is a selection here.

Photo of Ann OrmondeAnn Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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I am pleased that the levies have been regularised at long last. Up to now as a county councillor I did not know where these levies were being used. Now I know what is being spent on roads infrastructure, open spaces and community development. It is time developers make the commitment to finish off housing estates and it is time that they give something back to the system. I could hardly believe the spin in the newspaper headlines last week, that a new levy of €10,500 was being imposed on houses. We were inundated with telephone calls from people asking if this would happen. We must ensure that the buyer does not bear the cost. The market should decide. We must get it right and there may be a challenge for us. We are making great progress in the number of houses being built. I admit there is more to be done.

In Tallaght, which is my area, the quality of life in Jobstown, Fettercairn and Killinarden has been transformed. The houses have been serviced and it is now a pleasure to visit these places. It was not a pleasure in the past and it was dangerous to visit them ten years ago. That change is a sign of real achievement. I want to see a new quality of life for people and I want to help those who cannot help themselves. The county councils have an important role to play. I congratulate county councils and local authorities on their achievements in improving the quality of life for people.

Other speakers referred to the rent allowance. I remind the House that nothing has been signed off. I compliment the Minister for Social and Family Affairs, Deputy Coughlan. She merely stated that there is an element of abuse of the system and she is laying down a marker but that she will be flexible to allow people who have a case to make to do so. She will not deprive anybody of a rent allowance if they need it. I know she would not do that. The Opposition put a spin on matters in order to make itself look good. I also compliment the Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern.

Significant work is being done in the area of homelessness. I know many homeless people because of my work in the past. It is a complicated problem. I know of homeless people who were given houses and within three days were back on the streets because they could not cope.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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Is the Senator blaming the homeless?

Photo of Ann OrmondeAnn Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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We must find other methods of handling the problem. It is a question of other services coming into play. The Minister of State has referred to this difficulty and only a percentage will come back into the fold. We must aim to help those who cannot help themselves.

I congratulate the Minister of State and the Government. As a result of my work as a county councillor, I acknowledge there is more to be done. I speak from my personal experience of dealing with the issue in Tallaght. I have seen the achievements to date.

Photo of Paul BradfordPaul Bradford (Fine Gael)
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I wish to share my time with Senator Brian Hayes. I am glad the Minister of State is in the House because there is no point in speaking about the Minister of State behind his back or making complaints when he is not present. I am genuinely disappointed not simply by the Minister's speech but by the approach he has taken over the past 12 to 18 months. I debated with the Minister of State in the other House on a number of issues and often listened with interest to his contributions. I genuinely believed he would introduce radicalism and a new approach to his office, which I believe to be the ministry for housing. Sadly he has become a prisoner not just of his Department but of the Department of Finance.

The current housing statistics concerning local authority tenants and those on the local authority waiting lists are exceptionally depressing. Senator Norris spoke about the 50,000 or 60,000 houses being built and they are referred to in the Government's amendment to the motion. The Government is building 5,000 or 6,000 houses in this calendar year or the next. I wish to quote statistics referring to my own area. In the mid-1980s when this country was in the grip of a major economic crisis, approximately twice as many local authority houses were being built.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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That is not correct.

Photo of Paul BradfordPaul Bradford (Fine Gael)
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The country is awash with money. I can supply the Minister of State with the figures. This year in north Cork there will be sufficient funding for approximately 80 or 90 starts in direct and affordable housing. In 1985, the local authority built 150 houses. We have not made the progress we should be making and we are failing to do so now at a time when significant resources are available, allthough there may not be as much available as there was two or three years ago.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should include voluntary housing, shared ownership and affordable housing.

Photo of Paul BradfordPaul Bradford (Fine Gael)
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I would like to be able to add in those figures but from what the Minister of State said, and taking into account voluntary and direct housing, we are still using much less resources for direct housing than in the mid-1980s. The statistics speak for themselves. We need to examine the area of direct housing. There are policy options which can be taken on housing. Even when money is scarce it is a question of choice. This may relate to what Senator Henry said earlier that some of the people on the housing list and some of the homeless do not vote and that perhaps they are not regarded as politically important. We tend to ignore those people. We have a social responsibility to address the housing issue. Other speakers made the point that a different method is used now for compiling a housing list and people are now on housing lists who may not have previously been considered. Approximately 100,000 people on a housing list in post-Celtic tiger Ireland is not good enough.

Much could be done in the area of rented accommodation. I accept that the legislation which has been passed is a small step forward but as a nation we need to change our approach to tenancy and to rented accommodation. If a person won the lotto or won €10 million and invested in a shop or a pub or a business, he would be regarded as an economic hero. If the same person invested that money in providing top quality, regulated rental accommodation, he would be seen as some sort of crook. We need to change our approach to landlords and tenants and advanced legislation should be introduced. We are moving forward in a fair direction in that regard. To coin a phrase, while much may have been done, there is much more to do. The Minister of State should be campaigning more radically. When I was a Member of the Lower House, I often heard him speaking more like a member of the Opposition than a Government backbencher. Now that he has power in his hands, he should look beyond the confines of his office to adopt new approaches towards solving this problem. The solutions can be found with some innovation, vision and political courage.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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I agree with everything my colleagues have said but I wish to make some additional points. The Minister of State should consider abolishing the homelessness agency. I suspect what I am going to say is not a million miles from his own thinking on this matter, if he were allowed to admit it honestly. I have always admired his straight talking in Opposition. Three years ago, when the report on homelessness was published, the Taoiseach announced an inter-agency response to the problem but it is not working. We have not seen any additional units in Tallaght where I live and where there is a substantial problem of homelessness. The Minister of State should abolish the homelessness agency tomorrow, put all the do-gooders to one side along with the inter-agency response, and take control of the matter himself. In my short time in politics I have learned that as a society we fail completely where we leave inter-agency groups to handle anything. Politicians are better equipped to respond to the problem and they are ultimately accountable to the Oireachtas, while the homelessness agency is not. The Minister of State should take control of the issue, particularly at this time of the year, because three years after the famous homelessness report came out, we are not making enough progress.

The Minister of State should also initiate a survey on the availability of central heating in local authority houses. When I inquired about this three years ago, I was appalled to discover that up to 60% of all council and corporation houses in the country had no central heating. Senator Ormonde spoke about Tallaght but as she knows, some 70% of council houses there do not have central heating. All the houses that have been built in the last five years have such heating, but prior to that there was no stipulation to provide it. Thousands of local authority homes do not have central heating on these cold winter nights. The Minister of State should sort that out. Sometimes politicians are remembered for simple things, such as when the Tánaiste, Deputy Harney, dealt with the issue of smokeless coal. The Minister of State could be remembered as the person who introduced central heating in every local authority home. It would not cost much because he could demand that local authorities use their capital accounts to bring that about. In one fell swoop, he could resolve another form of poverty that is inflicted on people. The Minister of State should carry out the necessary survey, thus enabling the job to be done over the next three years by using local and national resources.

Tom Morrissey (Progressive Democrats)
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The suggestion that the Government has presided over a trebling of house prices is a cheap shot. The reality is that in 1995, housing output comprised 30,000 private and public units. Less than 4,000 houses were built in the public sector in 1995, compared to 6,000 in 2002, from a total of 55,000. Some 67,000 houses will be built this year, which is a dramatic figure by any standards across Europe. Last year, we were told that 55,000 was a record figure, so 67,000 is truly a dramatic total.

Figures released today by the Central Statistics Office show that we had a net immigration of 41,300 people last year, compared to a CSO estimate of only 29,000. This demonstrates how difficult it is to keep up with the demand for housing, including local authority housing lists. The estimated increase in immigration of 19,000 indicates an increased demand for 6,000 houses based on three-person households.

No Government has provided more for housing. In 1996, a total of €451 million was provided from the public capital spending programme, which is 10%. Today that figure stands at €1.7 billion or 20%. The increasing demand for housing has resulted in house builders and developers having been able to increase the price of houses over the last few years. However, with an increase in supply coming on stream, particularly in Dublin, we should see a levelling off in price increases. I do not expect that the increase in levies will be paid for totally by house buyers because with an increasing housing supply, builders will be unable to pass on the full cost of these new levies from next year.

I remember being on Fingal County Council when two development plans were adopted. The position of the Labour Party at that time was to prevent additional land coming on stream. Had they won the day, the price of houses would be even higher then it is currently because the supply would be much less. To hear Labour Party representatives speaking in this debate makes a mockery of where they stood on the two development plans in my own council area. Perhaps other Senators will have had similar experiences in their areas.

The abolition of the first-time buyer's grant had little or no effect on housing demand. In any event, it was aimed at only about 10% of the total market. The recent ESRI mid-term report suggested that the Government should consider reducing such supports as a method of damping down demand. When I bought my first house, the price increased by €2,000 the day the grant was increased from €1,000 to €3,000, but the builder was the beneficiary, not the purchaser. I have no doubt that was not an isolated case, but was widespread. Housing is and will continue to be a priority for the Government. Indeed, housing receives 34% of the resources of the national development plan, compared to 27% for roads. The record of the Government will stand the test of time. It is important to continue to increase the housing supply and I hope that is where the Government's focus will remain.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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While I thank everyone for their contributions to the debate, I thought Senator Brady's conscience was beginning to prick him when he proposed the amendment to the motion. I know he has a problem with his conscience due to what the Government is doing about housing.

Photo of Cyprian BradyCyprian Brady (Fianna Fail)
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That will be the day.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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The amendment is the greatest piece of hypocrisy we have seen from the Government side.

Photo of Cyprian BradyCyprian Brady (Fianna Fail)
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The truth hurts.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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This is the Government which, in its 2002 election manifesto, promised to eliminate poor quality housing and the housing waiting list, yet nothing has happened.

Photo of Ann OrmondeAnn Ormonde (Fianna Fail)
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What would the Senator do?

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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The motion states that we still have over 100,000 people waiting for housing but that figure only includes those who have made applications to local authorities. There are many genuine cases of people who require housing but who have not applied to their local authority for accommodation. They are living in substandard conditions and one has only to visit certain inner city and rural areas to see the evidence for this. The amendment lacks integrity, truth, honesty and courage by the Government to admit its neglect of housing policy.

We must examine other issues, including the promise to provide 2,000 extra gardaí. How many have been provided?

Michael Brennan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should stick to the motion.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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Have 50 been provided?

Photo of Cyprian BradyCyprian Brady (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should speak to the motion.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach:

Senator Bannon without interruption.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Interruptions without Senator Bannon.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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We have to look at the promises that were made about medical cards which were not delivered upon. The situation is similar in terms of housing. The hypocrisy was at its maximum today in the Minister of State's contribution. He was engaging in game playing when he talked about the announcement, which came into the public domain yesterday, of a funding package of €752 million for local authorities. It must be remembered that next year we will have the local elections and I am aware, from leaks from Fianna Fáil conventions throughout the country, that there would have been resignations of Fianna Fáil councillors—

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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It was 16%. The Senator should go off and do something useful.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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—if some carrot was not brought in for them in the run-up to next year's local elections. Fianna Fáil lost one of its own in my county of Longford over bad policy. That person has resigned and he is standing in next year's local election as an Independent. The Senators should check the record in my county of Longford.

A Senator:

Will he get re-elected after the 130 jobs?

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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On the development charges, in his contribution the Minister said that the only people who will be affected by those are developers. What about the many young people who will try to provide a house for themselves and go through the process of applying for planning permission? That happens to a great extent in rural Ireland. When people make an application they take in hand the whole planning process. They go to the local authority and get planning permission but what has this Government done? It has savagely imposed a cost of €12,000 in some counties. That is a fact.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Only if the councillors pass it.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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I thought the Minister would have some consideration for those young people who took the initiative of coming off the local authority housing waiting lists to provide a house for themselves. I thought he would have the gumption to bring in a sliding scale for those people—

Photo of Cyprian BradyCyprian Brady (Fianna Fail)
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Is Senator Bannon still on the council?

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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—but he has not. He has neglected them.

Photo of Cyprian BradyCyprian Brady (Fianna Fail)
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Did he get a chance to vote on it?

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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The first obvious problem with this Government is its policy. The Government does not appear to have any policy on housing. It is a type of piecemeal add-on from the time it came back into office. My colleague, Senator Hayes, spoke about the poor quality of housing, the lack of central heating and so on. The Government has no policy on refurbishing the local authority housing stock.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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I agree with my colleague that the Minister should take some initiative on this and try to eliminate the poor quality housing built in the 1930s. The Government did not even consider providing money for a lick of paint or allowing them to be bought under a tenant purchase scheme. I hope the Minister takes note of this aspect and comes back to this House with proposals thereon.

On the question of the management of housing estates, several local authorities have developed initiatives to encourage tenants in housing estates—

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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With Government money.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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—to get involved in the maintenance and improvement of their estates but the initiative has been snookered by lack of funding from the Government. The Government encourages such initiatives in its policy document but it then starves the relevant local authorities of cash and nothing happens.

Photo of Noel AhernNoel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Did the Senator put in his application?

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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The tenants have lost confidence in local authorities. We are back to square one in that the whole structure of tenant committees, etc. has fallen asunder. The Minister should consider bringing forward a proper housing document that will be fair to local authority tenants throughout the country. There was no fair play in what the Minister said earlier. He has played games with the electorate—

Photo of Cyprian BradyCyprian Brady (Fianna Fail)
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It is called a manifesto.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Fine Gael)
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—but the electorate will give him its message next year in both the local and European elections.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Amendment put.

The Seanad divided: Tá, 26; Níl, 19.

Bohan, Eddie.

Brady, Cyprian.

Brennan, Michael.

Callanan, Peter.

Cox, Margaret.

Dardis, John.

Dooley, Timmy.

Fitzgerald, Liam.

Glynn, Camillus.

Kenneally, Brendan.

Kitt, Michael P.

Leyden, Terry.

MacSharry, Marc.

Mansergh, Martin.

Mooney, Paschal C.

Morrissey, Tom.

Moylan, Pat.

O'Brien, Francis.

Ó Murchú, Labhrás.

O'Rourke, Mary.

Ormonde, Ann.

Phelan, Kieran.

Scanlon, Eamon.

Walsh, Kate.

White, Mary M.

Wilson, Diarmuid.

Níl

Bannon, James.

Bradford, Paul.

Burke, Paddy.

Burke, Ulick.

Coghlan, Paul.

Coonan, Noel.

Cummins, Maurice.

Feighan, Frank.

Finucane, Michael.

Hayes, Brian.

Henry, Mary.

Higgins, Jim.

McCarthy, Michael.

McHugh, Joe.

Norris, David.

O'Meara, Kathleen.

Phelan, John.

Ross, Shane.

Tuffy, Joanna.

Tellers: Tá, Senators Dardis and Moylan; Níl, Senators U. Burke and Coonan.

Amendment declared carried.

Motion, as amended, put and declared carried.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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When is it proposed to sit again?

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Tomorrow at 10.30 a.m.