Dáil debates
Thursday, 27 May 2010
Order of Business.
10:30 am
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. a11, motion re referral to joint committee of proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of a directive of the European Parliament and of the Council on preventing and combating trafficking in human beings, and protecting victims, repealing Framework Decision 2002/629/JHA; No. b11, motion re membership of committees; No. 22, Adoption Bill 2009 [Seanad] - Order for Report, Report and Final Stages, to adjourn at 1.30 p.m., if not previously concluded, and the order shall not resume thereafter; and No. 23, Nurses and Midwives Bill 2010 - Second Stage (resumed). It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that Nos. a11 and b11 shall be decided without debate.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is one proposal to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. a11 and b11 agreed to? Agreed.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Ceann Comhairle looked shocked for a moment.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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That is the result of his letter.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I would like to raise a number of matters. It transpires that the HSE is confused about the request the Minister of State with responsibility for children, Deputy Barry Andrews, made of it. We were told it was impossible to find out the number of children who may have died in the care of the State over the past decade but now we have been informed the figure will be available in the next two days. What has happened to ensure this information will be available in the next two days as it should have been in the first place, given the Taoiseach, the Minister for Health and Children, who seems to have washed her hands of this matter entirely, and the Minister of State were unable to confirm the figure?
Second, what progress has been made in regard to having the Attorney General approve the wording agreed by the all-party Oireachtas committee in respect of a referendum on children's rights? Today's Amnesty International report joins in the request that this matter be dealt with as quickly as possible. I respect the fact that we have to get the wording right. What progress has the Minister of State, Deputy Barry Andrews, made in giving his proposal to the Attorney General for confirmation to the Government in order that we can have the referendum?
Third, the Government voted down a Fine Gael proposal last December to extend the remit of the Comptroller and Auditor General to deal with the audit of the Dublin Docklands Development Authority, which was supported by other parties in the House. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is now of the opinion that this should be so. Will that be done by regulation based on what he said yesterday or will it require primary legislation? If so, when will it come before the House?
As Deputy Terence Flanagan has pointed out on a number of occasions in his role as spokesperson on housing, the number of people in mortgage arrears is increasing by 4,000 a month. What is the Government's response in terms of a policy decision to deal with this serious matter for an increasing number of people? The current figure is 36,000 but it may go as high as 300,000.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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First, the Taoiseach, the Minister for Health and Children, the Minister of State with responsibility for children and senior HSE executives met yesterday afternoon to follow up on the issues of concern raised by the Government. In March this year, the Minister of State wrote to the chairman of the HSE asking for the information required to be made available to him in April. He did not receive correspondence until May and, following on from that, he took the action he did in the context of ensuring information is made available. When the Minister of State raised this issue with the HSE regarding the forthcoming correspondence, there was absolutely no view that there was any confusion or issues raised by the HSE at that time. Following the meeting with the Taoiseach yesterday and the senior executives, the HSE is responding to the request for information.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach, on everyone's behalf, expressed the absolute importance and urgency of the matter. That information will be made available and on that basis there is no confusion about what is being requested under the HIQA guidelines.
Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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The confusion is over there.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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On the second issue raised by the Deputy about a referendum, the Minister of State with responsibility for children hopes to have a memo for Government by the end of June. The wording is being considered by a number of Departments, as outlined by him in the House about two weeks ago. That matter is progressing as quickly as possible.
On the third issue, namely, the Comptroller and Auditor General carrying out his work into the Dublin Docklands Development Authority, DDDA, either through a special report or under the auspices of his office's powers, this will be done by statutory instrument and the advice is that it will not need primary legislation.
The final issue the Deputy raised was in relation to mortgage arrears. As he is aware, the Government has set up a group to examine the issues and it hopes to report by the end of June.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is an example of what happens when a Government is in office for 13 years. We are left with a national debt which has tripled in the past two and a half years to €100 billion, with a deficit this year of more than €20 billion, and a situation where the Taoiseach, the Minister for Health and Children and the Minister of State with responsibility for children are unable to answer a simple but serious question about the number of children who died in the care of the State over the past ten years. We have had all this spin and waffle, along with the meeting that took place yesterday, and suddenly answers can be given. As I pointed out yesterday, the National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Act 2000 requires that incidents be reported to the NTMA. In terms of numbers, that information should have been available at the push of a button. It is disgraceful that the Government is unable to get its act together and confusion is the order of the day, both within Government and the HSE. Members of the Tánaiste's party have said it is now a "dysfunctional Frankenstein".
I was interested in the Tánaiste's comment to the effect that legislation pertaining to the wording of the referendum will be available by the end of June. We have about 17 working days left before the House proposes to rise for the summer. The Tánaiste has said this is of such importance that it should be a stand-alone matter. Let us see whether the Government is prepared to back up her words.
Finally, the Tánaiste said, in response to my question about the authority to be given to the Comptroller and Auditor General to carry out the audit in respect of Dublin Docklands Development Authority, that it would be done by statutory instrument. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy John Gormley, wrote to the Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts on 22 September 2009, stating:
The Minister for Finance has indicated to you that it is not possible, arising from a Supreme Court judgment, to extend the remit of the C&AG by way of ministerial order, as originally provided for under section 21 of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Amendment) Act 1993.
Amendment of primary legislation is a matter for the Dáil, and in this instance amending legislation would be required to give effect to the Committee's request.
The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has responsibility for the Comptroller and Auditor General in this matter and he states in his letter of September 2009 that primary legislation will have to be amended, and that legislation is required for that to happen. The Tánaiste, however, says it is being done by statutory instrument. The Minister with responsibility for the area says it requires legislation. The Minister for Finance says it requires legislation. Will the Tánaiste now correct the record and indicate when this legislation will come before the House?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Unlike the Opposition, we have to consider all issues before we make a final decision. It is after a final decision has been made that we determine the methods by which we progress any issue. In the context of the Dublin Docklands Development Authority-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Could we hear the Tánaiste without interruption, please?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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-----the Government considered this matter. Following that, the format in which this matter would progress was decided, namely, that-----
Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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I thought the Tánaiste gave the decision some minutes ago.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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-----the issue of the introduction of the Comptroller and Auditor General's authority would be dealt with under the auspices of that authority to inquire into the Dublin Docklands Development Authority. The advice I have been given is that this is to be effected by way of an order under the Comptroller and Auditor General (Amendment) Act 1993, to be made by the Minister for Finance.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Fianna Fáil has Gormley where it wants him.
Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Is it a statutory instrument or legislation?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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This is the situation and these are the facts I have to deal with this morning. That is the situation with regard to the statutory instrument.
On the issue of legislation, I have been asked to update the House on the work in progress under the auspices of the Minister of State with responsibility for children, Deputy Barry Andrews, in relation to preparation for the referendum. I have indicated that it is expected the Minister of State will bring a memo to Government around the end of June.
Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Where stands the docklands issue?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have a final comment, to help the Ceann Comhairle.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy cannot engage in debate on the Order of Business.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am sorry, but I beg to differ with the Tánaiste here. The Supreme Court judgment said, and I quote from the Minister for Finance's letter to the Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts in July 2009, that "delegated legislation cannot make, repeal or amend any law" and adds that to the extent to which the parent Act purports to confer such a power, it will be invalid having regard to the provisions of the Constitution. Legislation is required to transfer that authority to carry out the audit of the DDDA by the Comptroller and Auditor General's office. This apparently is an absolute unholy scandal and has been referred to by Deputy Hogan on frequent occasions and by Deputy Rabbitte et al on others.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is now engaging in debate.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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According to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and the Minister for Finance, legislation is required. I am asking the Tánaiste, as the deputy leader of the Government, when that legislation will come before the House. Will it be before the House rises for the summer period?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I am sorry, but I am not the line Minister in the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Where have we heard that before?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I have indicated to the Deputy the situation that has arisen, following on from the Government's consideration, and the questions that need to be answered which the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government has requested. It is on that basis, under a statutory instrument, that this transfer will take place.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He never comes in here any more. This is a scandal-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will Deputy Kenny resume his seat, please?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is a scandal, a Cheann Comhairle.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Kenny, will you please resume your seat? I have allowed you latitude. Please resume your seat. You are engaging in disorder on the Order of Business.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Where is the Minister to clear up this matter of primary legislation? The Tánaiste says-----
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He is in the bog, cutting turf.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Richard Bruton on a point of order.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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I just want to make a point of order to the effect that either the House was misled then or it is being misled now. The House is entitled to know which is correct.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Tánaiste has replied to the question raised by Deputy Kenny. The Deputy is going to have to pursue this with the line Minister. I call Deputy Eamon Gilmore.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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She is not withdrawing the information that was laid before a committee and the House.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I have a couple of matters to pursue with the Tánaiste. I want to return to the issue on which she responded to Deputy Kenny about the transfer of the information by the HSE in relation to the children who died in State care. Did I understand her correctly to say it is now the position that the HSE will transfer the information and legislation is not required? If that is the position, how was this not established before the Government took its position last Tuesday to the effect that legislation was required? What has caused the change of heart and where stands the legal objection the HSE raised to the transfer of the information?
Regarding her reply in respect of providing protection for people who are running into difficulties with their mortgages because of the recession, the Tánaiste said the Government working group on this will report by the end of June. For more than two years the Labour Party has been seeking a home protection scheme to provide protection for people-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Gilmore, this is more appropriately addressed to the line Minister than raised on the Order of Business.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are trying to get some order into the Order of Business because there is a serious breakdown of order.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There is a serious breakdown.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The question being raised by the Deputy should, in my view, be posed directly to the line Minister by way of a parliamentary question.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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Who is the line Minister?
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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No, a Cheann Comhairle. The question I wished to raise, if you had done me the courtesy of waiting until I had asked it, is about ordering the business of the House. The Tánaiste says the working group on mortgages and home protection will report to Government by the end of June. Since the Government proposes to put the House into recess at the beginning of July, when will the House have an opportunity to consider the outcome of the group's deliberations? Will we have to wait until after the summer recess before the Government brings its proposals to the House? Where stand those people who find themselves being brought before the courts for home repossession in the meantime? With respect, a Cheann Comhairle, that is a question that is perfectly in order for the Order of Business.
I wish to ask another couple of questions which, I submit to you in advance, are also in order. The first is about the report on the Dublin Docklands Development Authority. This report was on the desk of the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government for five months.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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We are now told he is to refer it to the Comptroller and Auditor General. My understanding is that this requires an order to be made by the Minister for Finance to add the DDDA to the list of bodies that are covered by the Comptroller and Auditor General under the 1993 Act. Can the Tánaiste tell us when that order will be made? Why, if that is the conclusion that has been reached by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, has it taken five months for him to come to that conclusion?
I also wish to ask about the bank inquiry. Deputy Burton asked about this yesterday and on Tuesday. We are told the two initial reports, from the Governor of the Central Bank and the external group, will be completed by 31 May. Will the Tánaiste confirm to the House that the report will be published before 31 May? Given that the terms of reference for the subsequent statutory commission of investigation are to be based on those two reports, what arrangements will be made in the House for the report to be considered and the terms of reference?
Finally, I wish to ask about the by-elections. The Electoral Representation (Amendment) Bill was voted down yesterday by the Government. We have had a number of proposals to move the writ for by-election; this was moved by the Opposition and voted down by the Government. Has the Government given any consideration to the case of Dudley v. an Taoiseach, which was taken to the High Court-----
Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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They will probably set up a review group.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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-----in 1994? A vacancy had arisen in the House and had existed for some time. The High Court granted leave to the applicant to institute judicial review proceedings against the Government. In its judgment, the court stated: "[T]here was an arguable case that the government of Ireland has a constitutional obligation to set down and to support motions for the issue of a writ for the holding of a by-election after a reasonable time had elapsed from the vacancy arising". Given the fact that there is now a vacancy in the Tánaiste's own constituency which has existed for 12 months, has the Government given any consideration-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will have to stop the Deputy. He is seeking detailed information on the Order of Business, which is not appropriate.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is asking for detailed information.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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No, he is asking a question.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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He is posing a question to the Tánaiste about a case in the High Court in 1994.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is much more appropriately addressed to the line Minister.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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No, a Cheann Comhairle. I am asking, as I am entitled to, whether the Government has given consideration to the implications of that judgment and whether it intends to move the writ for the by-election. We must bear in mind that the High Court said there was an arguable case that the Government has a constitutional duty to bring such a motion before the House where a reasonable period has elapsed. In the case of the vacancy in the Tánaiste's own constituency, a year has now elapsed, which most of us would consider to be a reasonable period within which the Government should table such a motion.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I have never seen such enthusiasm.
Paul Connaughton Snr (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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They are jumping out of their skins.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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From the Deputy's own side?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Although I have no problem answering questions, if we are to continue in this way on Thursdays-----
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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We get another schoolma'am lecture.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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-----I would almost prefer that we adopt a Standing Order to establish something similar to Leaders' Questions, as we now have about six or seven topics-----
Olivia MitchellMary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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As a Whip, a bit of regard would be appropriate for Deputy Kehoe.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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If we are going to structure this-----
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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-----perhaps we could do it within the confines that are afforded to Leaders' Questions.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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If the Tánaiste agrees we can have it straight away.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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At least there would be a timeframe for some of the meandering questions.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste does not have the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, to back her up this morning.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I will take a number of the questions that have been asked. With regard to the meeting that took place between the Taoiseach, the Minister for Health and Children, the Minister of State with responsibility for children and the relevant people within the HSE, the undertaking given by the HSE was on the validation of numbers of deaths on foot of the letter sent by the Minister of State in March. That work will be completed and brought to the attention of the Minister by the end of the week.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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So it does not require legislation?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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May I be allowed to answer the question? The issue of legislation is appropriate. Arising from consideration by the Minister himself on Monday of this week, when he indicated he was unhappy with the situation, he has taken further legal advice and has indicated that legislation will be required to address the issues with section 31 of the Children Act 1991. The in camera rule, the data protection legislation and the issue of consent must be dealt with.
Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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There was an order a while ago.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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That legislation will be introduced by the Minister as a matter of urgency.
With regard to the banking inquiry, the preliminary reports will be completed on schedule by the end of May and will be submitted to the Minister in the coming days. The Government will consider them and the matter will then be laid before the House. The second stage of the inquiry will then proceed, with the establishment of the statutory commission and the terms of reference in a draft Government order. The establishment will need to be approved by Members of the Oireachtas.
The third question was about the report on mortgage arrears which is due at the end of June. I cannot pre-empt that work, which is ongoing. If we can order our business to facilitate discussion on this, that is a matter for the Whips.
With regard to the by-elections-----
Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste is on home ground now.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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-----and the Dudley case, arguments were raised - although I will not discuss these - to allow for a judicial review, which did not take place.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I wish to return to the issue of the HSE files on the deaths of children in State care and the Government's assertion that emergency legislation is now required. When will that legislation be presented to the House? When will see the publication of the promised Bill? While I am not aware of any precedent, on this issue there is a veil of secrecy on how and why decisions are taken. During my engagement with the Taoiseach yesterday it seemed that the mention of the Attorney General put him in a spin. If ever there was a reason to publish the advice of the Attorney General, this is one justifiable case.
11:00 am
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot have a debate on the Order of Business. It is inappropriate.
The second issue I wish to raise is the Child Care (Amendment) Bill 2009 which was passed in the Seanad on 6 May. It is a critical item of legislation which it is hoped will guarantee after care for children in State care post their 18th birthday where that need presents. When will the Child Care (Amendment) Bill come before the Dáil now that it has completed its passage through the Seanad?
There is great concern across the State among people who are involved in community development projects that they have been summoned to a special seminar on 10 June when it will be outlined to them how they will be able to go about transferring the assets and liabilities of their respective projects to the partnership companies.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is definitely a matter for the line Minister.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It is in the context of promised legislation, if the Chair will be patient. The local partnership companies will outline how the community development projects will wind down. There is great concern through the length and breadth of the country as community development projects have made a huge and valued contribution-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I cannot allow the Deputy to engage in debate on this matter on the Order of Business.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----in terms of both urban and rural society. Is there a basis in legislation or ministerial order for this planned wind-down of community development projects? If not, is the Government looking at legislation-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must pursue this matter with the line Minister.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Tánaiste clarify whether the Government is looking at legislation to facilitate its intent in this regard?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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On the first issue, the Minister will have initial information made available and it is hoped to bring the legislation to the House by the end of June. The Child Care (Amendment) Bill is awaiting Second Stage, and that is a matter for the Whips. There is no legislation on the third matter.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Tánaiste said the ordering of legislation is a matter for the Whips. Surely the Child Care (Amendment) Bill is something for the Minister and the Government to bring before the House. I am not aware that the Whips make the determination as to whether legislation will present here that has already made its passage through the Seanad, concluding on 6 May. It is a hugely important Bill and recent tragic events underscore the need for it even more. Rather than kicking this to the Whips, which is a stock in trade answer in all of these cases, will the Government facilitate the presentation of the Child Care (Amendment) Bill before the Dáil at the earliest opportunity? The notion that the so-called emergency legislation in regard to the Health Service Executive files on the deaths of children can be expected to come before us by the end of June is unacceptable. That is not emergency legislation and I wonder at the full import behind the Government's intent.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We must move on from this issue.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Tánaiste answer?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The legislation is available to the House for Second Stage and we can take on board the Deputy's concerns to have it expedited.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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In view of the recent arrests of several persons involved in organised crime arising from co-operation between the Garda and the police forces of certain other countries, when is it intended to transpose the European Union framework decision on the European evidence warrant for obtaining objects, documents and data for use in criminal proceedings, as such instruments may be instrumental in bringing matters to a satisfactory conclusion?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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That will be done later this year.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Will it be done in time to meet requirements?
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to await a debate on the matter.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The national vetting bureau Bill has been promised for some time. Recent indications were that its publication is imminent. Will the Tánaiste confirm that?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is being worked on as an absolute priority.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Will it be here before the end of the current session?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I am not certain.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Surely it will be if it is a priority.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Like so much else, that information is not available.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Under Standing Orders I am entitled to that clarification. Will the Bill be in the House before the end of the present session?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I am not in a position to say. I am indicating that the legislation is being worked on as a matter of urgency.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Before raising my final point, I thank the Ceann Comhairle for his correspondence which I received this morning. I hope I am not the only one with whom he corresponded. Did everybody get the same letter?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There are several inaccuracies in it, as the Chair probably knows. One relates to legislation promised inside or outside the House.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot debate the letter at this stage.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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If I do not bring this to the Ceann Comhairle's attention now, it becomes part of Standing Orders. Since the 1980s it was always part of Standing Orders that legislation promised inside or outside the House falls into the category of promised legislation.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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As do Green Papers and White Papers.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is engaging in argument at this point.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Green Papers and White Papers are also applicable; one is a discussion document and the other shows intent to introduce legislation.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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Both are promised legislation. The letter is inaccurate.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Correct. Can I ask-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy cannot ask any questions. If he wishes to debate any aspect of the letter, I will be delighted to meet him to discuss it.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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The Ceann Comhairle should withdraw it.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I must restore order to the Order of Business. Does Deputy Durkan have a further query on legislation?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Given that I was not the only person to receive this correspondence, perhaps it might be possible at some early stage to have a debate so that Members can restore their rights under Standing Orders to what they were.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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That opportunity may well arise. Will the Deputy now continue with his query on legislation?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Like other Members, I have repeatedly put down parliamentary questions to the Minister for Health and Children to which I have received the same answer, namely, that it is not possible to reply at the present time but if the issue remains a problem, I may bring it to the Minister's attention once again. The Ceann Comhairle has advised me to put down parliamentary questions when I could not get answers to various issues. I have followed his instructions - as has every Member of the House - and am now at my wits' end. Constituents throughout the country are asking questions about the delivery of services that are personal to them-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy clearly did not read my letter.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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-----and which are being denied to them. The Minister more often than not-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is engaging in argument on the Order of Business.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I am sorry but there are no other means of airing this issue.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are other means, including the Adjournment and parliamentary questions.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I cannot believe the Ceann Comhairle has suggested parliamentary questions.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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We have all put down questions and received no answers.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We must have order. Deputy Durkan's co-operation would be appreciated.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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With respect, I fully agree that we must have order. Part of that order is that when we put down a parliamentary question it is treated with respect and we receive an answer.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It will either happen or it will not happen, but I will no longer tolerate it. I hate to be a nuisance to the Ceann Comhairle.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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And I am sure the Ceann Comhairle hates to be a nuisance to me. The fact of the matter is that we cannot go on like this. I am asking the Fine Gael Party Whip and the Labour Party Whip to deal with this issue in the only way that remains available to them. We must make sure to secure our rights now-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are procedures. Any of these matters can be raised at the weekly Whips' meetings. Does the Deputy have a question on legislation so that we can get on with the business of the House for today?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I have come to my wits' end in regard to the refusal by the Minister for Health and Children to answer pertinent questions.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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The Minister clearly did not give much attention to the Ceann Comhairle's letter either.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Either the Ceann Comhairle recognises that-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to find another time and another forum to make these points.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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-----and conveys it to the powers that be-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to co-operate with the Chair. There is no provision to have a debate on this matter on the Order of Business. The Deputy indicated to me earlier that he had a further query on promised legislation. Please let us have it.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I have waited four months to receive a reply to a parliamentary question. Is the Chair telling me I must wait another four months?
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will have to ask the Deputy to leave the House unless he asks a question on legislation or resumes his seat.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Chair would be right to do so; I am as useful outside the House as in it because I cannot get any answers here.
First, yesterday, the Financial Services Ombudsman indicated that the Department of Finance was supportive of his request to name financial institutions which abuse their customers and fail to give them their proper rights. That does not appear to be on the Government's list of legislative commitments and I would like the Tánaiste to indicate whether it will be introduced.
Second, on the National Asset Management Agency, when will the Dáil see the codes of practice it was due to publish by 31 March and the quarterly report due on 31 March also? Those documents should be laid before the House and I would like to know when we will see them. They are now months overdue.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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On the first issue, as the Deputy is aware, people articulate the need for legislation and if the emergencies arise, perhaps those can be facilitated. I will try to get some facts for the Deputy on all of the issues he has raised in the context of timeframes and when they will be made available to him.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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On the first issue, is the Tánaiste saying legislation is promised? It is required.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is required. I will have to revert to the Deputy on a timescale for those issues.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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There is a commitment in the programme for Government to make tackling climate change a priority. At the time a special Cabinet sub-committee on climate change was set up and we all understood that the Green Party was committed to ensuring that was part of public policy. In the first year, 2008, that committee met six times. In 2009, it only met twice and in 2010 it has not met at all.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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The Greens are very busy. They are always in here.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Since the Government is not dealing with this issue and there is now only one political body, namely, the Joint Committee on Climate Change and Energy Security chaired by Deputy Seán Barrett, dealing with climate change, and in view of the fact that there is no sign of the promised climate change law from the Government, will the Tánaiste take the climate change law that has been proposed by the joint Oireachtas committee and ensure its passage through the House once it is fully completed-----
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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-----and have it in Government time? Otherwise, the issue of climate change is not being dealt with, and most people would be astonished that the Green Party commitment has simply crumbled away. We have no meetings of the sub-committee. Scant attention is being given to the joint Oireachtas committee-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, you are engaging in debate on the Order of Business.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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All we have is the promise of legislation but the Government has not given us any indication that the legislation is being published. I ask the Tánaiste to accept the legislation that has been put forward by the joint Oireachtas committee setting out the framework for tackling climate change, which is a duty on us internationally and also nationally, to ensure we live up to our commitments.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister has approved a framework for the climate change Bill which sets out the key priorities for the legislation. I will raise with him the issues the Deputy has articulated today with regard to progressing the matter.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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When is it due for publication?
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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May I ask the Tánaiste when the Tribunals of Inquiry Bill will come back into the House?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I am aware it is awaiting Report Stage. It is a matter for discussion here in the setting out of the business. I do not think there is-----
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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When will it come back in here, Tánaiste?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I have not got a date as to when that can happen but I am sure it could be facilitated. There is no issue with it.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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First, will the Tánaiste clarify the timetable for the publication and presentation to the House and to the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service of the two reports, the first by Herr Regling and Mr. Watson and the second by Governor Honohan? I understand the Minister to have said, and I understand from the authors of the two reports, that they are being presented to the Minister for Finance on Monday evening, 31 May, as set out originally by the Government. Presumably, the Government will receive them the next day. Does that mean the timetable is that they will be released immediately to the House because the terms of the Government motion indicate that the Houses of the Oireachtas and the appropriate Oireachtas committee, the finance committee, will be invited to consider the findings of the report, and the terms of reference of the banking inquiry have to be dealt with by the end of June. Given the limited number of sitting days available between Monday, 31 May, and 30 June, can the Tánaiste indicate the Government's timetable for that?
Second, on the €750 billion proposed EU fund which is to be established in the context of the difficulties of the euro, we had an indication from the Taoiseach that it probably requires legislation. Can the Tánaiste indicate the timeframe for that legislation, given that it is proposed that the House will rise early in July?
Third, in the context of the preparations for next year's budget, presumably Departments have been working through the McCarthy report. Does the Government have any proposals to facilitate the House with a discussion on the position of each Department in regard to the implementation of those parts of the McCarthy report with which the Government intends to proceed? It is almost impossible to do any kind of budget planning for later in the year unless we have some understanding of the fate of the recommendations in the McCarthy report. In the Tánaiste's own area, for example, we have the ongoing reviews of special needs assistants and no general information is available on the Government's approach, nor in regard to the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Innovation's area. We have no indication of what the Government is doing with the recommendations in the McCarthy report, which were highly critical of investment in fourth level science and research and on which I believe there is cross-party agreement, which is important-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot have a debate on the Order of Business.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Before the House rises in July, will we have an opportunity to have a full discussion, in the context of the preparations for the next budget, on the position regarding the various elements of the McCarthy report? There used to be a debate on the state of the economy for a few days before the Dáil rose and it is clear that the biggest issue as we prepare to rise in July is what happens to next year's budget. It is not possible to proceed without full consideration-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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A debate is inappropriate on the Order of Business.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----of where the McCarthy report is now. Will the Tánaiste indicate if the Government intends to provide for that debate in the context of the budget because we will have the half year figures also?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy has raised a number of issues. First, with regard to the banking inquiry, I did articulate that the reports will be submitted to the Minister for Finance. The Government will consider them and my assumption is that the reports will be laid before the House immediately. The timeframe, as the Deputy is aware, is the setting up of the commission and the terms of reference and a discussion will take place in the committee during June. We are working within the timeframe set in the order.
Second, on the issue of the stabilisation mechanism and the discussions that took place in the House, as the Deputy is aware, the Minister for Finance indicated that further legislation will be required. He is working on that currently. The expectation is that it should be available next week for approval and consideration by the Government and then to progress to discussion in the House in June.
On the Deputy's final question, in the coming weeks these items of legislation will take up a considerable amount of the time of this House. I do not anticipate that we will have time available between now and the end of the session for further discussions on the McCarthy report but we will evaluate the way matters are progressing.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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In the context of the significance of the McCarthy report to preparations for next year's budget, will the Government publish a White Paper on where the McCarthy report stands because it is impossible for the Opposition to second guess the Government in regard to budgetary preparation if we do not have information from the line Departments?
As I stated, I picked the example of the review of special needs assistants that Members will be aware is being carried out on a school by school, SNA by SNA, basis at present. We need a broad state-of-the-nation discussion about where the Government stands on the financial position of the economy by the time the Dáil rises in July. It is not possible to plan for next year's budget.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Burton is engaging in debate on the Order of Business.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Would the Government consider a White Paper on where stands the McCarthy report?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Then how are we supposed to proceed?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I did not know that Deputy Burton was the Minister for Finance.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----and we want to replace the Minister for Finance.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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-----the Government will provide the budget.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Take the matter up with the Minister.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Sorry, a Cheann Comhairle, can I just say this to the Minister? In the United Kingdom, in the run-up to the last general election and continuously as a matter of courtesy,-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I must advise Deputy Burton that we have a whip system in the House and this matter can be discussed among the Whips.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----the finance spokespersons have a dedicated civil servant from the Treasury who provides the kind of information that I am looking for. It is not possible to make plans unless one has some of the reliable information.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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This matter should be taken up at the Whips' meeting.
Before I call the next speaker, I wish to refer to something which was raised earlier in the House by Deputy Durkan. The enclosure with the letter which was sent out last night sets out the various parts of the Order of Business under Standing Order 26. The rulings, also attached, do not refer to legislation promised outside the House as this is expressly referred to in Standing Order 26 itself. We do not feel it was necessary to circulate the Standing Order itself as Members should be aware of it. In short, there is no omission in the letter re legislation promised outside the House as this is provided for in the Standing Order itself.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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On the letter, it is also necessary for the Ceann Comhairle to clarify the position on Green Papers and White Papers, both of which are regarded, in previous rulings and in precedent, as promised legislation - one provides the general outline of the legislation and the other frequently includes even the heads of Bills. The letter, as communicated to us, is not clear on that matter.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will clarify it for the Deputy.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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A Cheann Comhairle,-----
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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-----I support Deputy Higgins in that regard.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is quite clear that promised business is what can be raised under Standing Order 26 on the Order of Business.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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I do not want to be contentious but, so that the record will show, I believe that the record is not only unclear but wrong. Therefore, I am in communication with the Ceann Comhairle's office about it but I would suggest that he not make a ruling on it.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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On changes to Standing Orders, Deputy Higgins will be aware that I am always willing-----
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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The Ceann Comhairle will find me most helpful.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I indicated in the letter I am quite willing to implement any changes which are agreed among the parties in the House.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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I will be most helpful.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I concur with my colleague on that. I will liaise with the Ceann Comhairle's office as well.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There are a number of what I would regard as evolutions whereby the Standing Orders interpreted ten or 15 years ago have changed.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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One would call this an extension.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I think so. That would be right.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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A bad bit of an extension.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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One without planning permission.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for his clarification. I would be very willing to help the Ceann Comhairle to ensure-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I, personally, as Ceann Comhairle, cannot change the Standing Order. It is very much in the hands of the Members of CPP.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I can assure the Ceann Comhairle, as we well know, very little of it is in the hands of the Members.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Put me on that list to Dáil Éireann.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Yes. I am taking the matter up.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I await the next missive from the Ceann Comhairle on this matter as well.
On the Tánaiste's Department of Education and Science brief, yesterday there was a ceremony by the survivors of Bethany Home, which was a residential institution for children, at an unmarked grave for 40 children who died, 27 of them in the space of a single year, in Bethany Home. The Department of Health and Children has deemed that Bethany Home was within the regulatory and supervisory framework of the State under the then Department of Health but I am not so sure that the Department of Education and Science has accepted that. Can she accede to the request of the survivors that Bethany Home would be added to the legislation, the Residential Institutions Redress Act 2002?
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Costello will have to bring this matter up with the line Ministers-----
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Can she state whether that requires any further order by the Minister?
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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-----in the normal way, by way of a parliamentary question.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Considering that there were 27 deaths of infants in a single year, which we know about only because the legislation-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Costello cannot engage in debate on the Order of Business. That is not provided for under Standing Orders.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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No, this is relevant. We know of that only because of the 1934 legislation that required notification of infant deaths. The following year we got it, but we do not have it for any of the other years. Will the Minister, because it is her area of responsibility, conduct an investigation into all of the deaths that took place in Bethany Home? Twenty seven deaths is close to 15% of the child population-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is inappropriate to pursue this in detail on the Order of Business.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I am raising two points:-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I accept the validity of the points being made but Deputy Costello will have to find a different occasion.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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-----first, if Bethany Home can be added to the list; and second, if an investigation will take place because this is a matter on a par with what we are seeking from the HSE on deaths of children in its care over the past ten years.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is not my intention to extend the remit of the redress scheme.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is not my intention to extend it.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Earlier in the Order of Business debate, as I suppose one could call it, the Tánaiste indicated that she would welcome a decision to change the Standing Orders so that we could have Leaders' Questions on Thursday. If that is the case, all she has to do is tell her Whip, the Whips on the other side of the House will readily accept that and we can do it today so that it is finalised-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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As Deputy Stagg will be well aware, there is a process to be gone through.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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-----before next Thursday when we will have orderly Leaders' Questions. It would be a much more orderly process than leaders trying to squeeze in questions under promised legislation. We will do it before next Thursday if the Tánaiste agrees.
The other point I want to raise is that Deputy Durkan is not a lone voice on the issue of parliamentary questions and answers.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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There are two problems and the Ceann Comhairle is aware of them. I thank the Ceann Comhairle for writing to the Ministers - in fact, his predecessor did the same - for all the good it did. They ignored the Ceann Comhairle and the CPP which wrote to them and told them that they should answer questions properly. Most of them did not even bother to acknowledge the letter from the Ceann Comhairle and the CPP.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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The most flowery answer came from the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, who is still the worst offender.
Jan O'SullivanEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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The other issue the CPP wrote about was Ministers half-answering questions. If there are two parts to a question, they will answer one and leave the other unanswered. In fact, we proposed changing Standing Orders to deal with that and I would ask the Government Whip again, through the Chair, to look at that particular Standing Order-----
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot have a detailed submission.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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-----that was prepared by the officials in the House to deal with that particular aspect of it.
There is another issue I want to raise briefly. Last Thursday morning, I asked the Tánaiste about the Murphy report and the 90 provisions of that report, which are being implemented and for which a plan is in place to implement them. I asked whether the Minister of State would come into the House to give a progress report and the Tánaiste and the Minister of State, who was sitting behind her at that time, agreed that that would be done. In fact, they were anxious to do it. The Whip was not in a position to clarify when that might happen last night. Maybe the Tánaiste could clarify when the Minister of State will come into the House in this regard?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Within the next two weeks.
Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise two or three matters. It was promised some time ago that when the second prosecution was completed in the Roscommon incest case, the Roscommon incest report would be published and it would be debated in this House. The second prosecution, which resulted in the conviction of the father, was completed some six weeks ago. When will the Roscommon incest report be published; will it be published before the House goes into recess for the summer vacation and will the House have an opportunity to debate what is in that report?
Second, on the promised legislation that was referred to under what I would describe as the unofficial leaders' items this morning, as I understand it, we have now been told that tomorrow evening the HSE will publish the figure of the number of children who, it understands, died in care in the past decade. I also understand it will not publish the figure of the number of children reported to be at risk in the past decade who have subsequently died. Could the Tánaiste confirm that?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I am led to believe the Roscommon report will be published around the end of June. On the other matters, as I indicated to both Leaders, the information as requested by the Minister in March of this year will be forthcoming at the end of the week. Legislation will then be required to be introduced in the context of the further investigations. I have no other information to report.
Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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This is very important and I will be brief.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot have Question Time on the Order of Business.
Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I think there is a confusion about this. I refer to two elements of information which the Minister of State with responsibility for children and youth affairs sought following my seeking it back in February and March 2009. The first was the number of children who died in care, which is the information, I gather, we will finally get tomorrow; the second was the number of children reported to be at risk to the former health boards and to the HSE in the past ten years who have died.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is going into details.
Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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If the Ceann Comhairle did not interrupt me I would have completed my question by now. I gather we will not be informed of the number of children reported to have been at risk who have died. They are the children not taken into care, in some instances because of the failings of health boards or the HSE. I am only asking that the Tánaiste clarify that. If she does not have that information, perhaps she would clarify it during the course of the day.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is inappropriate for the Order of Business, to have Question Time like this on the Order of Business.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The whole country is asking questions.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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On the same matter, it is important we know the figures for those who died in care and those who died while under the care of the HSE.
I have a question about planning legislation. I am sure the Ceann Comhairle will agree with me that last week has seen some of the best weather of the year yet on Tuesday night, two nights ago, eight of the 12 Dublin fire brigade ambulances were held up outside the Mater hospital for four hours, leaving four ambulances available for the rest of the city.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is entirely inappropriate for the Order of Business.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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It is appropriate because I want to ask about the licensing of health facilities Bill and whether it will address issues such as the suitability of a facility that cannot accommodate patients who are delivered to it by ambulance.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot have a debate on promised legislation at this time. The Deputy is anticipating the debate.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I would point out to the Ceann Comhairle that there is a Bill promised, the licensing of health facilities Bill, and I ask when will it come before the House and if it will include - as I asked last week - the licensing of ambulances.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The licensing of health facilities Bill is to provide for a mandatory system of licensing for public and private health care facilities. I am not in a position to give an undertaking as to when it will be available to the House.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Does the Tánaiste not consider an ambulance to be a health facility?
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, Deputy, we are not going to have a debate on it now.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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This is a serious point if somebody cannot be transported in a safe fashion from the site of an accident. Health facilities should include ambulances and they need to be inspected and to come under this legislation.
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, Deputy, we are on the Order of Business.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Is there any point in having this Bill if the facilities available to people are such that people must lie in an ambulance for four hours outside the hospital?
Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should retain those points for the debate.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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With reference to the issue raised earlier by Deputy Durkan about parliamentary questions to the Department of Health and Children, I ask the Ceann Comhairle about the handling of such parliamentary questions by his office. Like other Members, I have had replies to parliamentary questions from the Minister for Health and Children which state that due to industrial relations problems she was unable to reply to questions but she invited me and others to resubmit the question if it remained a matter of ongoing interest. Now when I resubmit the question, the Ceann Comhairle's office rejects it without even sending it to the Department because it is a repeat question. Of course it is a repeat question. I was invited by the Minister to resubmit it. I ask the Ceann Comhairle to instruct his office that an invitation from a Minister requires the office to disregard the normal practice with regard to repeat questions.
Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy will only get the same reply.
Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Hope springs eternal.