Dáil debates
Tuesday, 4 October 2005
Order of Business.
4:00 pm
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. 13, Supplementary Estimate for public services [Vote 31], back from committee; No. 14, motion re membership of committees; No. 15, Railway Safety Bill 2001 — instruction to committee; No. 20, statements on Corrib gas field; and No. 21, Railway Safety Bill 2001 — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages.
It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. and business shall be interrupted on the adjournment of Private Members' business which shall be No. 48, motion re report of the Comptroller and Auditor General for 2004, which shall be taken for 90 minutes at 7 p.m. or on the conclusion of No. 20, whichever is the later; Nos. 13 to 15, inclusive, shall be decided without debate and, in the case of No. 13, Supplementary Estimate for public services [Vote 31], any division demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith; the proceedings on No. 20 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after two hours and the following arrangements shall apply: the statements of the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; the statements of each other Member called upon shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; Members may share time; and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed five minutes.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are three proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for the late sitting and the taking of Private Members' Business agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 13 to 15, inclusive, motions re Supplementary Estimate for public services, membership of committees and the Railway Safety Bill 2001, agreed?
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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It is not agreed. It is not the first time the Green Party has opposed an Estimate being taken in this way. In this case, we oppose it because the relevant committee has not made a report on the Estimate. The House is being asked to accept it without the consultation the Government would like people to believe is in place. It is important because we are not seeing what we are asked to accept. The relevant committee and the House needs to have a full report on this Estimate. It is not acceptable or responsible simply to nod it through without seeing to what we are agreeing.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will put the question.
Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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On a point of order, will we receive a reply as to when the report will be forthcoming? It is standard practice that a report comes from the relevant committee to the House before we vote on such an issue.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I was already standing to put the question. No other Member had stood up.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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However, there is no reply.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal for dealing with No. 20 agreed? Agreed.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I note from the Government's legislation programme that under section B, Bills for which texts are being prepared, none of the proposed legislation is expected to be published until mid-2006. In respect of the planning and development (strategic national infrastructure) Bill, will the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government make a clarifying statement arising from his meeting with the hauliers' association? I know this is a sideways fashion to ask this question. However, there are thousands of tractor owners with large trailers that cannot——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question on legislation?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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——get certificates of freight and, as a result, cannot work for county councils. This means job costs will rise and productivity will be lowered.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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This does not arise on the Order of Business.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Will the Minister clarify the position in this case?
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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It was promised to introduce a Bill establishing the health information and quality authority alongside the legislation establishing the Health Service Executive, which was taken last December. However, the Bill never materialised. This legislation was to include an inspectorate of nursing homes. This, along with the repayments Bill to pay elderly people their money, is now listed under the section for Bills in respect of which heads have yet to be approved by Government. The first stage of preparation of these Bills has not been completed. The introduction of these Bills to the House is a moveable feast.
Will those entitled to get their money back see this legislation introduced and completed in the House this year? Will the people who saw the great concern expressed by the Taoiseach when the Leas Cross nursing home was in the media see the legislation on the inspectorate of nursing homes introduced to the House this year, as was promised by him?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The heads of the health (nursing homes)(amendment) Bill have been approved by the Government.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is hoped the Bill will be introduced in this session. However, the Tánaiste made it clear last week that it will not be finished in this session.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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We will give it priority if the Taoiseach does.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It will drift into the new year.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It will be published but we will not have finished it. Regarding the Bill establishing the health information and quality authority, last year the Tánaiste decoupled it, so to speak, from what is now the Health Act 2004 and it is now due next year. Work is under way on this legislation.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Following the earlier debate on the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement, what progress has been made on legislation for a register of persons considered unsafe to work with children? In the North, similar legislation has made considerable progress while the South is paralysed on this matter.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question on legislation? I remind the House two hours is promised for a debate. Only matters relevant to the Order of Business can be raised.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Is it not possible to indicate the date of publication for this Bill? I expected it to have changed so that we could look forward to some date. With many students starting third level college this month, no date has been indicated for the publication of the third level student support Bill. Is the Department of Education and Science progressing this legislation?
5:00 pm
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is nothing new from what I said last week about the register of persons considered unsafe to work with children.
I will ask for an update on the matter but I stated last week that the Department of Education and Science and the Department of Health and Children have discussed the establishment of a pre-employment consultancy service.
As for the third level student support Bill, consultations are taking place between the Departments and the relevant stakeholders on that legislation. I understand those discussions will be helpful in creating better legislation. I do not have a date for that proposed Bill, but if the Deputy tables a question for the Minister, he will receive an outline of those discussions.
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach will recall that the former Minister for Public Enterprise, Senator O'Rourke, promised we would be riding in the metro in 2005 and that the former Minister for Transport, Deputy Brennan, stated that we would be riding it in 2007. Wisely, the current Minister was a little more coy in his promises and has given a promise of a promise. In the legislative proposals, I notice——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question on the legislation? She should confine herself to legislation because the House is due to debate the Corrib gas field issue for two hours.
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I have. I notice that the proposed metro Bill has entirely disappeared from the legislative list. Can the Taoiseach indicate what that means? Does it mean the metro has also disappeared or is this merely a sign of continued indecision? Does it mean the metro Bill is no longer required or will the metro ever be built?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Bill has been included in the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government's proposed planning and development Bill, the strategic infrastructure Bill.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am told it is due early next year.
Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Will that be the metro itself or the Bill?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We want to move along.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is in the planning and development Bill.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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A small fraction of the overrun of €150 million in respect of the HSE's computer system would provide a school bus for the children of Pallaskenry who are still without a school bus one month after the start of the new term.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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This does not arise on the Order of Business. I call on Deputy Allen.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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It arises on the Order of Business because——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I suggest Deputy O'Sullivan submits a question to the Minister.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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I am raising a question on legislation. The Taoiseach promised those parents that he would review this issue.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, it does not arise on the Order of Business.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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It does, because the catchment area of school buses——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is being disorderly and I call Deputy Allen.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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The Deputy should be given a chance.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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The catchment areas for school buses were set up under legislation in 1967. I want to know if that legislation is being reviewed.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised?
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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If it is not being reviewed, those people are entitled to a bus. Are the catchments being reviewed?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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No. We already have legislation governing buses.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call on Deputy Allen.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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The parents were given a promise in 2001 that the status quo would remain.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, it does not arise on the Order of Business and the Deputy is being disorderly.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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It does, because they have no school bus and there is no promised legislation.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy knows how to raise the matter and has choices. I call on Deputy Allen.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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I raised this last week on the Adjournment and there was no reply.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It was on the Adjournment last week when the Deputy raised it herself. She is now taking up the House's time unnecessarily. I call on Deputy Allen.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask Deputy O'Sullivan to resume her seat or the Chair will take the action that apparently she wishes for.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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The parents were told by the Taoiseach that he would look into this issue.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to resume her seat. I call Deputy Bernard Allen.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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I will resume my seat, but I have not received a satisfactory answer.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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If the Deputy opens her mouth once more, she will have to leave the House.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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We cannot have that.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Stagg on a point of order.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Will the Ceann Comhairle tell the House what rule he is quoting to the Deputy to the effect that if she opens her mouth once more, she will be thrown out? There is no such rule and the Ceann Comhairle is overstepping his authority by pretending there is.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is a new rule.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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The Ceann Comhairle is being rude to the Deputy. There is nothing new in that.
Tom Kitt (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Stagg is a gentleman.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am setting a new precedent for Deputies who are disorderly in the House.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call on Deputy Allen.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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If one does not open one's mouth while seeking a written reply to Dáil questions, one does not get them. My question——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It does not arise on the Order of Business.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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My question relates to regulations governing Dáil business. I understood that regulations require Ministers to respond to written questions within three days. I submitted a question on 29 August regarding centres for refugees and asylum seekers. Last Wednesday, 28 September I received an answer from the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform informing me that he did not have the time required to combine the information.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It does not arise on the Order of Business. I call on Deputy Morgan.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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It does. If I cannot get an answer within a month——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It does not arise at this stage. There are other ways of raising the issue.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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——what can I do to get the answer and the information?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call on Deputy Morgan.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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What can I do about this issue? I am asking that question.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy can raise the matter on the Adjournment.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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Is the Minister in breach of regulations?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should raise the matter on the Adjournment.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is treating the House with contempt. No answer is forthcoming.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I hope I have better luck than the previous two speakers.
Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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If the Deputy is in order, he might.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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No. 64 on today's Order Paper, which could not be more in order, is a motion calling on the European Commission to bring forward a European ferries directive. Will the Government permit time for such a motion to be brought before the House?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The matter does not arise.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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This is on the Order Paper, which is why I raise it. At present, there is scarcely another issue in this State, with the possible exception of the health service, that is more important. Therefore, I ask if the Government will provide time for this item to be debated. I draw the Taoiseach's attention to No. 64 on the Order Paper. It is a motion calling on the European Commission to bring forward a European ferries directive, which would effectively deal with the current crisis and the issue of ferry services and the exploitation of workers. Its central theme is workers' rights, not just in Irish Ferries, but in all ferry companies, in respect of——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has made his point.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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——passengers and workers' rights. It is a very broad spectrum of issues.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy cannot debate it now.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I am waiting to hear if the Government will provide time to bring forward such a motion because I cannot do it. I do not have the time. Can I seek a division on this issue now?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Is the Deputy asking if we will consider providing Government time for a Private Member's motion?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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If he can get the other Opposition parties to agree to give their time, that is fine by me.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Taoiseach allow Members to bring this forward or will the Government provide time? We do not have nearly enough time. We are not afforded such time.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy must go on the list with all the other Members who want time.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It is one of the most important outstanding issues. Will time be provided? I did not get an answer.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is being disorderly.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I have never been disorderly in my life and I am not being disorderly now. All I want from the Taoiseach is guidance on this matter. Will he provide the House with the time?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach has already answered the question. I call on Deputy Bruton.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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He has not. He did not provide the time.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call on Deputy Bruton.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy cannot raise a point of order when Deputy Bruton is on his feet.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Of course I can. I am still on my feet.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, the Deputy cannot. The Chair has ruled on the matter. If the Deputy resumes his seat and allows Deputy Bruton to speak, I will return to him.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Is there any point to resuming my seat or indeed having a seat if I cannot raise such important items before the House?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is being disorderly and he knows it.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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If the Deputy resumes his seat, I will call on Deputy Bruton and will then take his point of order.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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Approximately half an hour ago, the spending figures for the Government were published and again show that the Government's capital programme is running far behind what was expected in key infrastructural areas. I want to ask the Taoiseach about the infrastructural Bill. It was his pet project and four years ago, he presented it to IBEC as the key to solving infrastructural problems. What is happening to this Bill? Has he lost all interest in it or will it be accelerated as a key element of the Government's strategy?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I used to be accused of spending too much, but now we spend too little. Thankfully, we are spending €6 billion on infrastructural projects.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach is not delivering what we need.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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We are delivering many things in many places. We have 50 major infrastructural projects under way. The Deputy is aware of that and wherever such projects are not delivering, he has been supplied with answers to his parliamentary questions. I have answered already that the Bill in question, the infrastructural Bill, is being included in the planning and development Bill, which is due next year.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call on Deputy Morgan on a point of order.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I have not received an answer from the Taoiseach with regard to this matter.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not a point of order. I call on Deputy Neville.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Surely it is a point of order? How am I to deal with this issue if I am not getting——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not a point of order.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It is a point of order. Will the Taoiseach bring forward the content of this motion to deal with the issue?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise on the Order of Business and I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It is No. 64 on the Order of Business. I wonder if it is worthwhile having a seat if I cannot deal with this issue.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is being disorderly. Does he wish to leave the House?
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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No, but I want to be effective when I am in here.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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He will have to leave the House if he does not resume his seat.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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There is little point in being here if I do not have some effect and I want to raise this issue.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to leave the House.
Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach wants to answer this issue. I will have to come back to this on another day.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy can come back to it when it is in order.
Dan Neville (Limerick West, Fine Gael)
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Does the Taoiseach agree the bus service raised by Deputy O'Sullivan should be provided to the children concerned to bring them to Pallaskenry school?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not on the Order of Business.
Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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In the last session we passed emergency legislation, namely, the British-Irish Agreement (Amendment) Bill 2005 and the Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rent) Bill 2005. Both Bills were enacted to address a loophole that had been exploited regarding the sale of State property on fee simple. An explanation is needed because a third instance occurred during the Dáil recess. Is it the intention of the Government to introduce further legislation in this area? Will it introduce all embracing legislation? It seems to be a problem that covers every State and semi-State agency.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I did not catch all of that. Is it about the British Irish Agreement (Amendment) Bill?
Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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Yes, the Bill that was introduced by the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, as well as the Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rent) Bill introduced by the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment. It is about the sale of fee simple that allows State property to be bought at an undervalued price, due to a loophole in the law. We passed two Bills and the loophole still seems to exist. Will further legislation be introduced?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will raise the issue. The British-Irish Agreement (Amendment) Bill is already law, but the Deputy claims there is still a loophole.
Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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The issue arose with the Dublin Port Company during the summer.