Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Good morning ladies and gentlemen. The purpose of our meeting today is engagement with the designate chairpersons of public bodies. In this regard, I welcome Mr. Cormac O'Rourke, chair designate of Transport Infrastructure Ireland; Ms Cliona Cassidy, chairperson designate of the Marine Investigation Board; Mr. John Mullins, chairperson designate of the Port of Cork; and Mr. Maurice O'Gorman, chairperson designate of the Galway Harbour Company.

I draw the attention of witnesses to the fact that by virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. However, if they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and they continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and they are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I now invite Ms Cliona Cassidy to make her opening statement.

Ms Cliona Cassidy:

I thank the Vice Chairman. I am very honoured by the proposal to extend my appointment as chairperson of the Marine Casualty Investigation Board, MCIB, for a further year and to have this opportunity to present my credentials to the committee this morning. I grew up and attended primary school in Saudi Arabia. I returned to Ireland for my secondary education and boarded at Rathdown School, Glenageary, County Dublin and subsequently at King’s Hospital School, Palmerstown. I graduated with a bachelor's degree in business and legal studies from UCD in 1996. I completed a certificate in marketing and French and moved to the United Kingdom where I was employed by the British Potato Council in Oxford as an export marketing executive and subsequently as export manager. The British Potato Council is a semi-State body funded through levies from the potato industry. My main responsibility in those two roles was the management of external international consultants who assisted in the management of the public image of British seed and consumer potatoes through media management, trade shows, seed growth trials and Government relationships. Our target markets were mainly in Europe and the Middle East. I represented the British Potato Council on a number of committees, including the Department for the Environment, Food, and Rural Affairs export industry committee which facilitated the exchange of ideas and co-ordination of international activities for a diverse range of British food and cultural promotional bodies. I completed my employment in the British Potato Council in a consumer-marketing role promoting the industry to consumers in association with retailers and potato processors. In all of these roles I had budgetary responsibility, ensuring that limited resources were applied to gain the maximum or greatest result.

I moved back to Ireland and in 2005 I graduated from the Honorable Society of King’s Inns with merit and was called to the Bar. I completed my practical training as a barrister while devilling in 2005 and 2006, first with Ms Caroline Cummings in criminal law and judicial review and then with Ms Marian Moylan and Ms Carrie Jane Canniffe in both family law and commercial law. I currently practice at the Bar and have a civil law practice based in Dublin. One of the cornerstones of the Irish Bar is the fact that barristers are independent, notwithstanding who they represent or have represented in the past. Over the past 12 years, my practice has included judicial review proceedings where I have advised members of An Garda Síochána challenging the procedures in disciplinary investigations. I have also provided legal advice to the Chief State Solicitor’s office on challenges by members of the Garda Síochána to decisions regarding disciplinary matters and the Garda compensation scheme. I regularly advise on contractual and negligence disputes and have represented injured persons and insurance companies in a range of personal injuries actions, including physical and psychological injuries. I have also advised clients on bullying and harassment claims and employment contract disputes. I have also managed a team of barristers in a large electronic discovery process for a commercial funds dispute. I was a member of the family Bar working group tasked with exploring the role of alternative dispute resolution in family disputes in December 2007. This included assisting in the drafting of a response to the report of Dr. Carol Coulter on the family law courts.

In 2008 I was appointed by the arbitration committee of the Bar Council to two working groups to assist in the preparations for the International Council for Commercial Arbitration , ICCA, conference and the young arbitration practitioners conference. The working groups were established to market and promote the involvement of practitioners in the conferences and to promote alternative dispute resolution in Ireland. Following an interview process I was selected by the arbitration committee to intern at the International Centre for Dispute Resolution, ICDR, in New York.

During my time at the Bar, I have taught law to a range of students who have varying levels of, and requirements for, legal knowledge. I currently tutor on the legal studies diploma course and the barrister-at-law degree course, which is a vocational course concentrating on practice and procedure. Both courses are provided in the Honorable Society of King’s Inns. I have also developed and delivered a basic introduction to law course for final year engineering students in UCD

My experience, while diverse, shows some of the key skills that are required in the role of chairperson of the Marine Casualty Investigation Board, MCIB, particularly objectivity, independence and a focus on fair procedures. As the committee knows, the MCIB was set up pursuant to the Merchant Shipping (Investigation of Marine Casualties) Act, 2000 and SI 276 of 2011, the European Communities (Merchant Shipping) (Investigation of Accidents) Regulations 2011. Its function is to carry out investigations of marine casualties involving Irish vessels or that take place in Irish waters. The result of those investigations is to ascertain the cause of the incident in order to enable the MCIB to make recommendations to the Minister, particularly safety recommendations. While the reports can, at times, make for difficult reading, the recommendations aim to assist in preventing the repetition of those incidents. The paramount focus of the MCIB is to assist in the promotion of a culture of safety in the water and on vessels. The assignment of blame or fault does not fall under the remit of the MCIB and it is important that this essential feature continues to be promoted. It is necessary for the efficient management of investigations that people interviewed in the course of it understand that the purpose is purely to ascertain the cause of the incident and not to assign blame or fault. This promotes openness, which could otherwise be a difficulty. It is important to keep in mind that with some incidents a whole village or community will have been touched by that incident. In that context, it is very important that we are seen as promoters of a safety culture.

A further key statutory provision is the independent nature of the MCIB, which enables it to address appropriate safety recommendations to the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport where appropriate and if required. Independence in respect of a relationship with the industry is also important. I have no connection with the marine industry and in the five years that I have been chairperson of the board, I have never been conflicted in a situation or unable to deal with a particular report..

I was appointed to the role of chairperson of the MCIB in January 2013 for a period of five years. In that time I have had the pleasure of working with dedicated members of the secretariat who underpin the work of the board and without whom we could not function. They are our only full-time employees. At the moment our secretary to the board is Ms Margaret Bell and she is supported by Ms Monica Quinn and Mr. Patrick Leonard. I have also had the pleasure of working with very committed members of the board. When I was originally appointed the board comprised two independent members, Mr. Brian Keane and Mr. Micheál Frain, as well as Mr. Brian Hogan, who is the chief surveyor and Mr. Jurgen Whyte, the nominee of the Secretary General of the Department.. In 2016 and 2017 the two independent members completed their terms and we welcomed two new members on to the board, Ms Dorothea Dowling and Mr. Frank Cronin.

Towards the end of 2017, Nigel Lindsay replaced Jurgen Whyte, after 12 years, as the nominee of the Secretary General of the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport.

During my time as chairman of the Marine Casualty Investigation Board, MCIB, we have made several changes to protect confidentiality, for example, through the anonymising of published reports, and to ensure the focus is on the safety recommendations. We underwent an audit by the European Maritime Safety Agency to assess the implementation of EU Directive 2009/18/EC, implemented in Ireland as SI No. 276 of 2011. We are undergoing preparations for the implementation of the general data protection regulation, GDPR. Obviously, we hold much data in respect of families and others involved in marine incidents. It is important our systems and processes protect personal information held in the MCIB as a structure.

The MCIB has a panel of investigators and knowledgeable board members. I see my continuing role as providing independent leadership and guidance to ensure fair procedures are followed in the course of investigations. The prompt and accurate publication of reports is essential to the work of the MCIB. It will remain a key focus of the agency's work into the future.

I thank the Chairman and the committee for their time and patience this morning. I look forward to continuing to ensure the MCIB is run in an efficient manner and the paramount requirement of safety in all waters in Ireland is promoted.

Mr. Cormac O'Rourke:

I am honoured to have been nominated for a second term as chairperson of Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, by the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Ross. I thank the Chairman and committee members for the invitation this morning.

I grew up in Dalkey, County Dublin, and was educated in Scoil Lorcáin and Coláiste Eoin.Is Gaelscoileanna iad an dá scoil sin. Mar sin, más mian le baill an choiste ceisteanna a chur as Gaeilge, tá mé sásta iarracht a dhéanamh freagra a thabhairt orthu as Gaeilge.I studied engineering and business in UCD, graduating in 1980 with a BE and in 1985 with a Master's degree. I joined the ESB from college. I worked for five years as an engineer and received training in Switzerland and the UK. I was then promoted to run the section which performed economic analysis and efficiency studies in power stations. In 1987, I moved to KBC Bank NV's Irish subsidiary. I worked initially in corporate banking and international aircraft finance. In the early 1990s I was appointed as head of KBC's project finance operations in Europe, the Middle East and Africa. The team had 30 project financiers split between Dublin and Brussels and was responsible for several billion euro worth of project lending for infrastructure, energy and telecommunications. I worked on a large number of European road, tunnel and bridge projects. I was also involved in rail projects in the UK, Australia and the Benelux countries. The funding of these projects involved a myriad of financing structures, including public private partnerships, PPPs.

In 2000, I returned to ESB International as investment director and worked on major projects in Northern Ireland, Spain and Poland, where ESB was the investor. I am fortunate to have worked for a major semi-State, which has a disciplined and highly sophisticated approach to developing major infrastructure projects both in Ireland and abroad. In 2003, I moved to Goodbody Corporate Finance. Since then, I have advised many semi-State and private companies on mergers and acquisition in energy, infrastructure and health care, as well strategy and fundraising.

When I was appointed as chairperson of the National Roads Authority, NRA, and the Railway Procurement Agency, RPA, in 2013, the most difficult challenge the organisations faced was the merger of the two entities to become TII. TII is now a single organisation in a single location with good cross-fertilisation of ideas between people with diverse engineering backgrounds. During the merger and afterwards, Luas cross city, Gort to Tuam, the N11 extension, Newlands Cross and other major and minor projects were completed. The staff of TII are to be commended on keeping their focus on delivering all these projects, while bedding in a new organisation.

At the time the merger was first mooted, the estimated savings were €3 million per annum. The actual outturn was approximately €10 million per annum. The largest savings have been in personnel numbers and premises. In terms of personnel, the savings have probably gone too far, particularly in terms of being able to undertake long-term planning. This is a matter on which we are engaging with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform.

TII's mission is to provide high quality transport infrastructure and services, delivering a better quality of life and supporting economic growth. It is responsible for the Luas in Dublin, as well as 5,306 km of national roads. The Luas carries over 100,000 passengers per day, almost a third of the number of passengers carried by Dublin Bus. The national road network transports people, goods and services between the country's major cities, towns, airports and ports. It is fair to say that TII's activities impact on almost every citizen in the State.

The board of TII oversees an authority which directly employs approximately 260 people. TII also funds 11 national roads offices, NROs, with 200 local authority technical staff. The NROs' management of projects and local knowledge are invaluable. Larger PPP projects are managed directly by TII.

Since 2000, TII has moved from a developer of roads and light rail to become a major operations manager. Most operations are outsourced. In total, 1,250 km of high-speed motorways, motorway service areas and tunnels are operated by a combination of PPP concessionaires and specialist operators. TII manages all PPP procurement directly and outsources commercial operations such as the M50 eFlow, Dublin Port tunnel and Luas services. Overall, some 2,000 people are employed on the operations side, with over 1,000 employed on the construction of major road and rail projects last year. I have included a diagram with this presentation, which I hope gives an appreciation of the scale of TII's activities.

Safety is a key concern for all who work for TII. The board is acutely aware that building, operating and maintaining roads and light rail are inherently dangerous activities. Monitoring safety on sites and on roads and light rail operations is a key part of what we do.

Last year had the lowest number of road deaths since records began. While this is welcome, we must strive to do better. TII monitors accidents on the national road network using road traffic collision data collected by An Garda Síochána and validated by the Road Safety Authority, RSA. We try to prioritise improvements in areas where collisions are most prevalent. Further information is provided in the appendix to the written statement on our progress with safety schemes.

Luas safety is a key issue and a combination of education campaigns and red-light infringement cameras have improved our safety statistics. Luas safety statistics compare well internationally, but again we must do even better.

Congestion is clearly a growing problem. While I know that it is no comfort to those stuck in traffic jams or feeling squashed on the Luas, it is worth pointing out that congestion is a symptom of economic success. However, I believe that as a country we have consistently underestimated growth and have failed to plan for success. In the 20 years since the 1996 census, the population in Ireland rose by 1.1 million people. The national planning framework expects an additional 1 million people by 2040, essentially in 22 years. A recent ESRI report, however, indicated the population could increase by up to 1.1 million people by 2030, ten years before the national planning framework. TII is a looking again at the national transport model to see if we need to update it for these latest projections.

TII has conducted a detailed analysis of the chronic underspend on road maintenance. The results are stark. The annual spend on asset renewal of the national primary routes has been well short of the required investment level of €140 million per annum.

Continued under-investment in pavement renewals for a period of 20 years will result in extensive repairs costing over €600 million per annum. This is more than twice as expensive in real terms and in no way represents value for money. I am grateful for the commitment from the Department that this funding gap will be phased out by 2020.

In 2016, the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council noted that depreciation on public infrastructure was approximately 2.1% - the same level as spending. A benign interpretation is that Ireland is standing still. In 2017, the World Economic Forum ranked Ireland as 38th in the world for infrastructure. Our National Competitiveness Council's analysis the same year stated that Ireland was spending less than the EU average on infrastructure. This means that as a country, we are going backwards compared with peer countries. When we consider the rapid growth in population, which is not the case in many European countries, Ireland is going backwards quite quickly compared with our peers. In its 2014 report on advanced economies, the IMF showed that spending an extra 1% of GDP on infrastructure leads to an immediate 0.4% increase in GDP with a permanent increase in GDP of 1.5% four years later. This information is not new. These results are almost identical to those produced by Professor John FitzGerald in the ESRI's medium-term review back in 2003. The ten-year national development plan published last Friday is very welcome and TII looks forward to playing its part in building out those projects we are tasked with.

A word of caution regarding the delivery of future infrastructure is probably appropriate. The board of TII is very concerned at the small number of major schemes that it has ready to go for planning or construction. Funding has not been provided during the recession to develop such schemes. The committee will be aware that a typical timeline for a major project is eight to 13 years from start to finish - assuming that there are no legal or planning challenges. Unfortunately, these challenges happen all too often in Ireland. TII is in the business of long-term planning and I welcome the indications that TII will be allocated funding to put more projects through planning. The cost of planning permission is a small fraction of the cost of the project but it provides optionality value. Once planning permission is in place for a significant number of projects, they can be scheduled as and when money becomes available. Without planning in place, we and others may not be in a position to take up available funding. TII is actually delighted that this issue has been addressed comprehensively in the national development plan.

Whether a person needs to travel from Sandyford to the Dublin Institute of Technology at Grangegorman or between Limerick and Galway, our job in TII is to provide a safe and efficient user experience. We invest money on behalf of the taxpayer to enable access to jobs and for goods and services in the most efficient manner possible right throughout the country. I acknowledge and pay tribute to the leadership of Michael Nolan, CEO of TII, and his very strong management team. Theirs is a difficult and demanding job at the best of times and they do their job with commitment, dedication and good grace. On behalf of my fellow board members and TII, I can assure the committee that we will continue to work closely with the Oireachtas, the Department, the National Transport Authority and our local authority partners in meeting the transportation infrastructure needs of Ireland.

Kevin O'Keeffe (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I call on Mr. John Mullins, chairman designate of the Port of Cork, to make his opening statement.

Mr. John Mullins:

Tá mé an-sásta a bheith anseo maidin inniu chun cuntas Phort Chorcaí a thabhairt don choiste. I would like to make a brief presentation on the achievements of the Port of Cork in the five years since my previous appointment in March 2013 until 21 December 2017. I would like members to go through the document because it is in presentation format. I would like to present my credentials and vision for the Port of Cork at this session this morning. I stand before the committee seeking re-appointment to the position of chairman of the Port of Cork Company for a period of three years from 1 March. I will firstly introduce myself to the committee and then present the salient challenges and opportunities facing my intended stewardship of the board of the Port of Cork.

I was born in Cork nearly 50 years ago in 1968 in the south inner city to Patrick and Maureen Mullins. My father spent his life as a painter-decorator for Cork City Council and my mother was well occupied with five boys of which I am the eldest. I was educated in North Monastery primary and secondary schools and then went on to study electrical engineering in University College Cork. I completed a bachelor's degree in 1989 and was awarded graduate of the year in UCC in 1989. I also studied a master's degree in electrical engineering. In 1997, I graduated from the Smurfit Business School in UCD with a first-class honours MBA.

I started my career with ESB - Mr. O'Rourke is a former colleague of mine - and am very thankful for the very fine career foundation I received there. I worked as a senior consultant in PwC in London specialising in the communications, energy, water and transport division. In 2000, I returned to Ireland to work with ESB International where I worked with Mr. O'Rourke on projects in Poland and project managed and commercially negotiated ESB's largest external investment in Amorebieta in the Basque region of Spain. In 2002, I joined NTR and worked with all of the companies in the group - Toll Roads, Greenstar, Celtic Anglian Water, Bioverda and Airtricity. I left NTR in 2007 to take up the position of chief executive officer in Bord Gáis Eireann.

My time in Bord Gáis Eireann was immensely enjoyable and challenging. My period was marked by significant diversification of the company, in particular into electricity with the Big Switch. The company has since split in three and significant parts were privatised and now trade as Centrica's Bord Gáis Energy and Brookfield Renewable Energy, which I am proud to say is now based in Cork and is the head of Brookfield's pension fund out of Cork for Europe, the Middle East and Africa.

Along with partners, I founded Amarenco Solar in 2013 and since then, we have grown the company to over 50 employees in Ireland, the UK and France. With partners, Amarenco has invested over €300 million in solar technology in France. I hope to invest well over €100 million in Ireland, primarily in the Cork region, by 2020. I am a fellow of Engineers Ireland and the Academy of Engineers of Ireland and hold board positions with Heneghan PR, Mainline Group and Wisetek. I am involved in the Cork Foundation, Anam Cara and Co-operation Ireland charities in the Cork region. I am a former president of the Cork Chamber of Commerce and received the title of Chevalier de la Legion d'Honneurin 2016 from the French President for services to French renewables.

I will deal with trade in the first instance. The Port of Cork has achieved throughput growth from 2013 to 2017 of over 10%. This is charted at the top of page 2 of the presentation. Regrettably, Lisheen Mine closed in 2015 leading to a 350,000-tonne reduction in throughput per annum which came through Tivoli in addition to a decline in Bantry tonnage in 2016. That was due to oil strategies in Zenith, which it took over from Phillips 66 in 2015. The total traffic volume is 10 million tonnes. We should be aware that the Port of Cork is responsible for about 20% of all the trade through ports in Ireland.

We have achieved significant growth with regard to financial performance over the five years. Turnover is now close to €30 million, while earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortisation is about €9.5 billion and operating surplus and dividends paid to the Minister total circa€3 million. In fact, the dividends have increased by a factor of 60% in that period annually. Our operating surplus has moved from €1.7 million in 2013 to €5.7 million in 2017. The closure of Lisheen Mine resulted in a loss of about €1 million worth of annual revenue in 2016 and 2017. These five-year trends are graphed in figure 1 on page 3.

The port has achieved significant growth in container traffic in particular primarily because of the upturn in the economy. In particular, there is a lot of industry in the Cork region that exports but we also have quite an amount of importation for domestic consumption as well. Measured in 20 ft. equivalent units, TEUs, we have an increase of about 28% in the period from 2013 to 2017 in TEU trade. In addition, the container-handling facilities at the Ringaskiddy deepwater terminal were also improved to enable the Port of Cork and the global shipping company Maersk enable a direct deep-sea transatlantic service to Ireland from South America and Cuba every Saturday to deliver practically all Fyffes bananas and pineapples for this country. It used to go through Rotterdam and then come by short-sea service to here so it now comes directly to Ringaskiddy in the only Panamax size container ship that arrives in Ireland at any time.

The Port of Cork has achieved significant growth in the number of cruise line calls in Cork. When we started in 2013, there were 61 calls. This year, we will have 96. This is replicated right across the country in all harbours and ports. Progress has also been made with cruise line calls to Bantry. I am proud to say that we will have eight calls in Bantry in 2018 - a mixture of Glengarriff and Bantry port.

We have had significant capital additions, including the Ringaskiddy development advanced works, costing €9.7 million. Regarding Bantry inner harbour development, we completed a brand-new marina and leisure area and we upgraded the pier for all the fishing, aquaculture and leisure activities and for the operation of the ferry to Whiddy. This cost approximately €9 million. The development was launched in August 2017 in west Cork. We put a new Liebherr LMH 550 crane in Ringaskiddy in 2014, costing about €3.6 million. We implemented a new automatic truck gate system, primarily because of congestion in the Tivoli area. That is a critical issue. Considering that container traffic has grown by 28%, there is significant truck movement on the Tivoli and the lower road. That is one the main reasons we are moving down to Ringaskiddy with the container terminal. The Cobh cruise terminal has been upgraded. We are now able to take the largest cruise liners in the world because of the natural water depth in Cobh. The largest cruise ships, which have about 6,500 passengers, are expected to come to Cobh in the coming years. Surfacing works at the existing container terminal at Tivoli had to completed. We have purchased cargo handling equipment.

The limitations of the facilities in Tivoli, which facilities have served Cork well, concern water depth, the width for vessel swinging, and landside terminal capacity. These limitations require the relocation of the container business downstream to the lower harbour at Ringaskiddy, where the depth of water is approximately 13 m, as opposed to approximately 6 m at Tivoli. Maritime traders want to enter and exit the harbour as quickly as possible. This will reduce the carbon footprint in the context of cruising up the harbour into the river. All the goods will be dispatched at Ringaskiddy and thus there will be no cruising through Passage West and past Blackrock into Tivoli. The port redevelopment will be beneficial to the port, port customers, the city, the wider Cork community and the region.

Full planning permission for critical-infrastructure port redevelopment at Ringaskiddy was granted in May 2015 by An Bord Pleanála following an efficient strategic-infrastructure oral hearing in September 2014. Revised phase-1 amended planning permission was granted on 8 June 2017. The company has therefore achieved planning permission for phase 1 of the Ringaskiddy development, which includes an optimised 360 m single berth, a straddle carrier operating system, and a new maintenance building for straddle carriers. Phase 1 will see the port relocate its container business from the current city centre Tivoli location to a new facility at Ringaskiddy. Figure 2 of my submission illustrates the difficulty associated with turning a ship in the River Lee. Dredging to keep the River Lee going costs around €500,000 per year. That is a significant cost to the port of Cork.The Ringaskiddy phase 1 development will be operational by 2020 and will include an optimised 360 m single berth, a straddle carrier operating system and some new maintenance buildings.

At a European level, the port of Cork is included within the new TEN-T regulation as a "core" port on the North Sea-Mediterranean corridor, along with being identified as a tier-1 port in the 2013 national ports policy. In line with this TEN-T designation, the port has secured funding under the TEN-T and the Connecting Europe Facility grant aid schemes for its Ringaskiddy developments.

PoCC was successful in 2013 with its funding application made under the acceleration or facilitation for the implementation of TEN-T projects. Grant aid of 50%, amounting to €1.8 million, was made available to obtain statutory consents for the Ringaskiddy development, complete financial and economic appraisals, detailed designs and communication plans, and prepare tender documentation.

PoCC submitted an application for TEN-T transport section CEF funding to the European Commission's Directorate-General for Mobility and Transport during 2015 following Department of Transport ,Tourism and Sport endorsement. The European Commission notified PoCC on 29 June 2015 that it had decided to allocate €12.74 million – or 17.5% of the eligible expenditure - to fund the construction of the proposed Ringaskiddy development.

Unfortunately, the February 2016 application made under the Motorways of the Sea scheme, in partnership with Dublin Ferryport Terminals and Belfast Harbour authorities to try to secure EU funding assistance for ship-to-shore cranes, straddle carriers and the gate operating system was unsuccessful. Re-engagement with Europe on BREXIT restructuring should be a policy priority so such applications will be positively viewed in the future.

In 2017 the company agreed a funding structure for the Ringaskiddy port redevelopment with the European Investment Bank, worth €30 million, with AIB, worth €30 million, and with the Irish Strategic Infrastructure Fund, worth €18 million. The company received the borrowing consent from the Ministers for Transport, Tourism and Sport and Public Expenditure and Reform on 14 December 2017 to proceed with the Ringaskiddy development. Legal documentation was then finalised, on 20 December 2017, in Dublin and the three facility agreements, the common terms agreement and the inter-creditor agreement were signed by all parties on that date. PoCC was then in a position to issue a letter of acceptance to BAM on 20 December 2017. We expect the commencement of works soon. It should be noted that we are engaged in a legal dispute with BAM as a contractor in this regard.

The Whitegate oil refinery accounts for over 55% of the port's overall cargo tonnage figures and accounts for 28% of the tonnage and goods income of PoCC. PoCC was very pleased to learn on 3 August 2016 that an agreement was reached with Irving Oil, a Canadian family-owned business, to purchase and secure the future of the Whitegate oil refinery. There were threats that it would close but we were very much part of the process of ensuring it would remain open.

The company entered into a joint venture with Lanber Holdings to purchase and redevelop Marino Point. Ownership of the joint venture company is split as follows: 60% Lanber Holdings and 40% PoCC. The purchase of Marino Point was completed on 2 June 2017. This site has lain fallow for the best part of 15 years. I refer to the old IFI site. There are significant specific projects intended for the site that will free up lands in the docklands of Cork for future infrastructural development.

OnBantry Bay port, the amalgamation and consolidation of the Bantry Bay Harbour Commissioners' assets with PoCC was completed on 1 January 2014, and a 100% subsidiary, Bantry Bay Port Company DAC, was created to manage the Bantry Bay operation. Following the unveiling of plans to develop Bantry Harbour in 2015, phase 1 of the Bantry inner harbour development, costing in the region of €9 million, was completed. The official opening ceremony of the Bantry marina development took place on 11August 2017. Completion of the Bantry inner harbour blueways kayaking trail was completed in 2016. This trail is the first of its kind in Munster.

PoCC secured planning permission in December 2014 for upgrading the cruise-berthing facilities in Cobh as part of a cruise vision to accommodate the cruise vessels of the maximum size. This investment of €1.5 million allows us to take in those vessels.

In 2017, the company purchased a site on Lynch's Quay in Cobh, as tenant in common with Cork County Council, for the purpose of future development to accommodate tourist and cruise-ship traffic and particularly to provide a new ferry terminal for tourists to visit the Spike Island facility. It is also to provide incremental opportunities for two cruise liners to arrive at Cobh at the same time.

I am chairman of the pension fund in PoCC. I inherited a deficit in the fund. In May 2014, we agreed with the Pensions Authority a funding programme to 2023 to make sure the defined-benefit pension fund stays whole, at a rate of at least 100%, for all past and present employees of the port.

In August 2017, PoCC welcomed to Cork a delegation from NextDecade Corporation, a liquefied natural gas, LNG, development company based in Houston, USA. NextDecade and PoCC had previously signed a memorandum of understanding to explore a joint development opportunity for a new floating storage regasification unit, FSRU, and associated LNG import terminal infrastructure in Ireland. NextDecade focused on one area within the harbour, west of Whitegate jetty, for this development. As an entry point into the Irish energy market, the port of Cork is an attractive location for an FSRU-based LNG import terminal. Surrounded by existing marine infrastructure and industrial facilities, the proposed site is less than 2 km from the Gas Networks Ireland grid at the Bord Gáis Energy plant in Whitegate.

Let me refer to the International Shipping Services Centre, or Cork city docklands.PoCC maintains its support for the Cork docklands redevelopment and intends playing a full role in ensuring that the development potential of the area is realised. PoCC management is in continual discussions with Cork City Council, assisted by the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government, regarding the future operation of the city quays. The company is currently chairing a stakeholder group, including developers, the council, IDA and chamber of commerce, in proposing the concept of the international shipping services centre which would be, in the context of Brexit, an opportunity to provide back-office maritime, financial and IT support in the development of significant office blocks within the inner docklands area.

Following a detailed review of Ringaskiddy redevelopment funding and office options, the directors of PoCC decided that the Custom House property located at Custom House Quay in the centre of Cork docklands would be advertised on the open market for sale. One party expressed a keen interest in purchasing the property and the PoCC board of directors agreed to proceed with negotiations. An agreement for the sale of the Custom House to Tower Development Properties Limited – Time Square Construction and Development – was signed on 20 April 2017, subject to a number of conditions, including receipt of planning permission. Two buildings are listed. There are heritage clauses within the agreement to ensure the building will be open to the public and that there will be no changes internally or externally to the Custom House. It is appropriate for the port to have its people close to where it operates. That is the same in Dublin, Galway, Waterford and elsewhere in the country. We cannot be 20 km from where we operate. The reality is that this is an operational issue as much as a financial one for the company.

In anticipation of the future redevelopment of the Tivoli site, PoCC commissioned the Royal Institute of the Architects of Ireland to consider the potential future uses of this estate. The design review "New Perspective for Tivoli" was completed in early 2017. PoCC is satisfied that this review has created a series of innovative ideas for a site of 160 acres, demonstrating urban design based on brownfield regeneration projects in benchmark cities, and raised the potential of Tivoli among key stakeholders.

The final draft document was presented to the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government and the Irish Strategic Investment Fund in July 2017. The future redevelopment of the Tivoli estate has the potential to play a key role in the financial security of the Port of Cork Company. It will also be key in the population 2040 drive in Cork city and will also be a brand new village on the north side of the river.

On Tuesday, 16 January 2018, Brittany Ferries announced a new route direct from Ringaskiddy, Cork to Santander in Spain using a new ship, MV Connemara. The service will make two return sailings a week and will be the first ever ferry service directly linking Ireland and Spain. This announcement came as Brittany Ferries celebrates its 40th year in Ireland. The popular Cork-Roscoff route opened on St. Patrick's Day in 1978 and has been serving Irish holidaymakers and haulage companies ever since. It has also brought millions of French passengers to Ireland, boosting the local and national economy. Discussions with Brittany Ferries this week indicate that the early bookings on that new ferry service are very strong.

The Port of Cork Company celebrated the 200th anniversary of Cork Harbour Commissioners in 2013 and published a book on the history of Cork Harbour Commissioners, Portraiture of Cork Harbour Commissioners. The Port of Cork Company and Cunard hosted a commemoration ceremony led by President Michael D. Higgins on 7 May 2015 in Cobh to mark the centenary of the sinking of the RMS Lusitaniaoff the Cork coast. During this five-year period the Port of Cork Company has regarded constant engagement with key customers and stakeholders including the local community as a key priority. Additionally Port of Cork Company is identifying and planning for the challenges and opportunities associated with Brexit. Likewise, Port of Cork Company is considering the implications of the full implementation of the European port services directive.

The key strategic objectives for the next three years are: complete the Ringaskiddy redevelopment; produce a Marino Point master plan; move port operations from the river to the sea; emphasise efficiency of service to all customers; prepare a master plan for Tivoli; and continue to grow the business for the betterment of the south of Ireland and the State.

I thank the Ministers for Transport, Tourism and Sport I have worked with - the former Minister and now Taoiseach, Deputy Varadkar, the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, and the Minister, Deputy Ross. I thank all the staff in the Department. I thank the CEO, Mr. Brendan Keating, and all the staff at the Port of Cork Company who do a fabulous job for us every day.

Mr. Maurice O'Gorman:

I thank the Chairman and members of the Joint Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport for inviting me here today. I will start, as requested, by introducing myself and setting out my background as it relates to the role of chairperson of Galway Harbour Company. I thank the committee for letting me follow Cork.

My name is Maurice O’Gorman. I am married to Jacinta, and we have three wonderful children. I am applying for appointment as chairperson of Galway Harbour Company. I was first appointed as a director in October 2017. My career spans both the public sector and the private sector, predominantly in financial services. I graduated with a BA (Hons) in leadership and management and have obtained additional qualifications in business information and industry professional qualifications.

I started my career with the London Stock Exchange in the regulatory division. I undertook work for the exchange projects in various countries and trained at the SEC in the USA. My work took me to Saudi Arabia and in 1992 I joined the Central Bank in Riyadh reporting to the deputy governor with responsibility for capital market development. This work included the establishment of the regulatory framework, the stock exchange, the regulatory authority and large-scale infrastructure projects such as the King Abdullah Financial District, a 32 million sq. ft space in the centre of the city.

In 2006 I joined the National Commercial Bank and within the financial group I was a founder, chief operating officer and head of strategy of NCB Capital, which is an investment bank managing approximately €15 billion in assets. During my time in the Middle East, I was an active member of the Irish Business Association, regularly welcoming Irish businesses and Ministers, and was an active member of the Global Irish Economic Forum.

I returned to Ireland full time in 2015 and focused on building our new house, which we are planning to move into within the next few weeks, and voluntary work. I currently hold the voluntary positions of president of Galway Chamber of Commerce, chairperson of the Galway City Innovation District and a board member of a special fund, NDRC@PorterShed GP Fund 1. I am also an unpaid non-executive board member of a technology company, called Altocloud.

Within the chamber I have been involved in various projects including preparing an economic development plan for Galway and various economic submissions including those on the national planning framework 2040. I was a founder and now chair the Galway City Innovation District, with the aim of supporting and nurturing start-up companies.

In September 2015, we started the renovation of the former Guinness storehouse owned by CIÉ and in April 2016 the PorterShed opened its doors to start-up companies. Since opening we have held over 300 events and welcomed 6,000 visitors including 23 international delegations. The PorterShed currently houses 32 companies employing over 100 people. Additionally over 100 jobs have been created by companies that have graduated from the PorterShed. In May 2017 in a joint venture with NDRC we launched the first accelerator programme outside of Dublin. Nine companies have thus far graduated. Our initial aim is to launch 30 companies over a 24-month period.

As part of my voluntary work I have developed strong links with our local authorities, NUIG, GMIT, IDA Ireland, Enterprise Ireland, Údarás na Gaeltachta and the Marine Institute.

Throughout its long history the Port of Galway has developed, thrived and changed, supporting the free movement of people, and the trade in goods and commodities, which is the basis for our prosperity. As travel and trade have changed over time, and as ships and their cargoes have developed in size, character and technology, so the nature of ports has changed, creating new opportunities for local and regional growth.

The need for safe harbours, with built defences interacting with and changing the natural environment, providing unimpeded access, with water deep enough for the largest vessels, still remains.

Revenue for the Galway Harbour Company has been trending upwards from a low in 2009. Pre-audit figures for 2017 show revenue in excess of €4 million and operating profits in excess of €800,000. Revenue is split fairly evenly between shipping, leasing and parking. The board and management will continue to focus on growth through improved competitiveness and investment.

An immediate priority in accordance with applicable legislation and the code of practice for the governance of State bodies will be the recruitment of a chief executive officer. Our incumbent CEO will be retiring on 1 March. Of equal priority is to ensure the smooth transition from State ownership to local authority ownership. The company has commenced working with the Department and the council management to undertake the due diligence required for an effective share transfer.

Good governance is an area in which I have been involved as both a regulator and as a practitioner. The goal of the board and management is to ensure that resources are directed in accordance with agreed policy, that there is sound decision making and that there is clear accountability for the use of resources in order to achieve desired outcomes.

The planning application for the extension of the port is under consideration by An Bord Pleanála. The board of the Galway Harbour Company must ensure that the process is managed appropriately, in terms of cost and time. The board must ensure that there are plans in place to ensure continued operation of the port, subject to a successful or unsuccessful application. Assuming planning permission is granted, the Galway Harbour Company will need to prepare a funding model that attracts private-sector investors and lenders in order that the required capital is available and that the port operates profitably on an ongoing basis.

Sufficient resources will be required to ensure that contracts for the extension of the port are entered into in line with State procurement requirements, are managed appropriately to ensure value for the State and deliver the expected outcome.

As travel and trade have changed over time, and as ships and their cargoes have developed in size, character and technology, so the nature of ports has changed. This creates new opportunities and challenges the Galway Harbour Company.

I take this opportunity to thank the outgoing chairperson, Mr. Paul Carey, for his dedication and commitment and to Mr. Eamon Bradshaw, the CEO, for the considerable work he has undertaken to develop and grow the Galway Harbour Company.

I am honoured to be designated as chairperson. I will do my utmost to meet the obligations of the role. I thank the committee for its time. I will do my best to answer any questions the committee may have.

Kevin O'Keeffe (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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We will now have a question-and-answer period. We will go on seniority, as regards party structure. I first call Senator O'Mahony.

John O'Mahony (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach. Deputy Hildegarde Naughton will stand in for Senator Frank Feighan, if that is okay.

Kevin O'Keeffe (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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Is the Deputy okay with that?

Hildegarde Naughton (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

John O'Mahony (Fine Gael)
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I will be very brief. I thank all of the witnesses for coming to the committee this morning and giving the presentations. From these presentations the witnesses have a great knowledge of what the challenges and opportunities are. On the face of it they seem very well equipped to take over the positions. I shall address each witness in the order of his or her presentation.

I shall turn fist to Ms Cliona Cassidy. We only hear of the Marine Casualty Investigation Board in the context of tragic circumstances. Ms Cassidy emphasises the importance of independence and confidentiality and that the main role of the board is to identify causes and make recommendations. Has Ms Cassidy any role in seeing that those recommendations are actually implemented and what is the follow-on from those recommendations? Ms Cassidy has stated clearly that the board identifies cause and does not apportion blame. Where does the blame aspect of these cases come in? Is it a matter for An Garda Síochána? The board's reports are used by the people who do apportion blame. Am I correct in that?

Ms Cliona Cassidy:

They can be. Once they are published our reports stand alone. They can be used in the courts system, by coroners, by families or by companies. We are very clear that our statutory provision is to focus our investigations not on apportioning blame or fault. Notwithstanding this, we have a provision that if facts go to some indication that steps were not taken or processes or protocols were not followed that should have been then we must state this. The anonymising of our reports focuses on the fact that it is not the person involved at the time, it is ascertaining the cause of the incident and attempting to see whether or not any safety recommendations can be made to avoid it happening in the future. We do not have a role or statutory provision to allow the board to follow up the safety recommendations. If one looks at some of our previous reports, our safety recommendations tend to focus on matters such as requesting that marine notices be issued, for example to remind people of their obligations in the use of recreational craft and to not take alcohol on board prior to using fishing vessels. We direct safety recommendations to particular companies that may have been involved in an incident. We do not name the company but obviously the company is aware that the incident relates to it. We would recommend, for example, that the company review its navigation systems, its training procedures and its protocols in respect of man overboard procedures for fishing vessels. Many of these recommendations, even though they are directed, can be taken as general recommendations across the industry. If the board directs a safety recommendation to large cargo vessels to review their navigation systems and training around navigation systems, we hope that other large shipping fleets will also look at the recommendation, maybe take it on board and review their procedures and see if the report contains any element that may cause them concern. Many of our safety recommendations are directed towards the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport and they include recommendations on issuing of marine notices. Where we believe that certain statutory provisions should be expanded we also recommend this. They are quite broad, but we do not have a role in following up on whether the recommendations are done. This is done by the individuals directed.

John O'Mahony (Fine Gael)
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I thank Ms Cassidy.

Kevin O'Keeffe (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I ask Senator O'Mahony to give all his questions first as time is of the essence and I would like to allow other members in.

John O'Mahony (Fine Gael)
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Okay, that is not a problem. I will go through the four.

I shall now turn to Mr. Cormac O'Rourke of Transport Infrastructure Ireland. Mr. O'Rourke has said that the cutbacks, or savings as he puts it, were estimated at €3 million and they were up at €10 million. Mr. O' Rourke believes that it had gone too far. What practical effect has this had? Mr. O'Rourke said that it affects long-term planning. The report from last Friday was around long-term planning. Perhaps Mr. O'Rourke will expand on this.

My other question concerns an issue that I have raised previously. Obviously there are a lot of new projects in the pipeline now but Mr. O'Rourke seems to be quite critical of the lack of maintenance put in to the transport infrastructure. This is at variance with what the Minister might say. Will Mr. O'Rourke also expand on that?

The Port of Cork report is very comprehensive so I will not go in to any great detail. With regard to Brexit and transport, Mr. O'Rourke referred to TEN-T. This was designed based on the UK being part of the EU, which looks certain not to happen now. What effect will this have on the Port of Cork?

I thank Mr. O'Gorman for his presentation which explains how Galway Port is, obviously, in a different space. He refers to the pending planning permission and the funding model. The tier status of the port has been a critical issue, and will be going forward. Hopefully there will be a positive result from the planning application. What is Mr. O'Gorman's view on what will happen next? Will it be more difficult to put the funding model in pace as a result of the tier status of the port?

Hildegarde Naughton (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Vice Chairman for allowing me to come in on this question. I do not want to repeat any of Senator O'Mahony's questions. I thank the witnesses. I can see them all bringing significant experience to their roles.

I shall direct my questions to Mr. O'Gorman. Mr. O'Gorman is bringing a lot of previous experience to the role as president of Galway Chamber and in outlining an economic development plan for Galway. We are aware that the harbour and its development is key for Galway and the western region. It is of strategic importance. For too long the city of Galway has turned its back on the water; our waterways, the canals and the sea. As my colleague has said, the planning application for the extension of the harbour is under consideration by An Bord Pleanála. Will Mr. O'Gorman outline his vision on the potential for the development of Galway Port and what it can do for tourism, business, recreation and the marine sector, and what he would like to do in his role?

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I have a number of questions for all the chair designates. I welcome them all to the committee today. Three of the four are seeking reappointment. As part of the reappointment process could they confirm if they have had to apply through the independent Public Appointments Service?

A new process was established a number of years ago through the independent Public Appointments Service. Did the chairpersons have to apply through that? Ms Cassidy said she had no experience of the marine when she was appointed in 2013. Did she feel that affected how she conducted her job and does she feel she has more experience and expertise having served as chairperson of the board for the past five years? She said one of the key roles of the board is to make safety recommendations in the marine area. During her time as board chairperson could she indicate how many recommendations she proposed to the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport and how many of them were adopted?

Ms Cassidy said an audit of the Marine Investigation Board was carried out by the European Maritime Safety Agency during her term as chairperson but she did not share with us the findings of the audit. Were the findings positive or were issues of concern raised? If so, could she share them with me?

Mr. O'Rourke is chairperson designate of Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII and he too is seeking reappointment. He referred to the savings made following the merger of the NRA and the RPA, which is welcome. Increasing savings from €3 million to €10 million is very welcome.

The Luas is a relevant and current issue in the transport sphere. The Luas cross-city is a fabulous development in the capital's infrastructure involving significant investment of €370 million but it is causing major disruption. What level of engagement or interaction did TII have with the relevant stakeholders in terms of the proper planning for the roll-out of such key infrastructure in the capital city?

Mr. O'Rourke referred to the national planning framework up to 2040 and how we expect the population to increase by 1 million in the next 24 years. He also mentioned a recent ESRI report indicating that the population could increase by 1.1 million by 2030, which is much faster. It may be an unfair question but does he consider we are adequately prepared in the shorter term for such a major population increase in terms of transport infrastructure, be it roads or light rail?

It was also mentioned by Mr. O'Rourke that in a discussion with his CEO he confirmed that due to a lack of funding provided to TII in the past five years it has not been in a position to plan for major structural investments, and because of that he suggests any major timeline will be eight to 13 years. Based on the ESRI report that the population will increase by 1.1 million by 2030 does he believe the capacity is there to roll out the infrastructural investment that is needed? Mr. O'Rourke referred to a lack of funding. I was recently part of a delegation that met with the EU Commission transport office and it informed us of the availability of the Juncker fund. Why has this country not applied for one cent of funding from that fund for public transport infrastructure? The lack of infrastructure is hindering our ability to invest. I think we are the second worst in Europe in terms of the level of investment we put into infrastructure.

Is there any update on the amount of money TII is spending on security in unopened motorway service stations? The CEO was before a committee in recent weeks and while I did not attend the meeting I heard that in excess of €1 million has already been spent on such security and that there is potential for the situation to continue for another 12 months.

Mr. Mullins gave a very comprehensive overview and outlined some very ambitious plans. There has been significant development and growth and that must be acknowledged and complimented. The national development plan refers to moving the Port of Cork. Could he elaborate a little further in terms of the timeframe and cost? Could he also speak about the current status of the sale of a building, which I understand is under dispute. He can correct me if I am wrong. I am not from Cork but I was contacted by a colleague on the issue. Is it called the Common Building?

Mr. John Mullins:

It could be the Custom House.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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It was sold last year.

I had one other question. Mr. Mullins spoke about a delay in BAM commencing the construction work. Does he have any expectation for when the construction work will begin?

Mr. Mullins also referred to an application that was made in partnership with Dublin and Belfast harbours for EU funding. Is that TEN-T funding? Given that he was successful in a previous application for TEN-T funding, what was the rationale for the refusal of the recent application? Does he intend to seek such funding again?

Mr. Mullins said he is working towards the full implementation of the port service directive. The directive was adopted in 2013 for all the 360 odd TEN-T networks. How long will it take to implement the plan? Are there short, medium and long-term goals for the implementation of the plan?

Mr. O'Gorman is the only new incoming chairperson. Did he apply through the Public Appointments Service? What motivated him to apply? The other chairpersons before us are reapplying and they probably want to see out more development in their respective areas. He said the incumbent CEO is retiring on 1 March this year. Has the process to replace him commenced?

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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My first question is for Mr O'Rourke from TII. I see from the national development plan that there will be an increase in the reliance by the Government on PPPs for infrastructural projects in the future. As a manager of such contracts does he consider PPPs to be best practice going forward, given that most countries are moving away from them? There is sufficient evidence to show that they do not offer value for money. I would welcome Mr. O'Rourke's opinion on that.

I wish to ask about the criteria for managing conflicts of interest at TII.

Does Mr. O'Rourke consider his current position a conflict of interest with his position as chairperson of Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, given that he advises on infrastructure and Government? According to his curriculum vitae, Mr. O'Rourke advises Departments on procurement options. If he becomes the manager for the contracts, how would he manage that conflict of interest? Does he accept that there may be a conflict of interest there?

The witness also mentioned that savings in personnel have gone too far and may hamper long-term planning in the future. He has stated that TII is in the business of long-term planning. Is Mr. O'Rourke saying that TII is short-staffed? To what extent is it short-staffed? How will Mr. O'Rourke manage TII's objectives if there are not sufficient staff to plan? I refer to the funding gap that exists regarding roads maintenance. Has Mr. O'Rourke met the Minister on this issue and can he expand on that?

I have two other ceisteanna. Does TII have plans to ensure that new works or remedial works in cities and towns on the national roads feature wheelchair-accessible bus stops? We have been meeting disability groups of late and this issue has been flagged time and time again. While there appears to have been some movement on the issue, there does not seem to be any concerted effort or real plan. Can Mr. O'Rourke outline TII's plan for that in detail? If he does not have details, perhaps he could furnish the committee with that plan. I refer also to new motorway service stations. There is a need for changing rooms in these facilities, particularly for mobility-impaired persons who require a carer to be with them. Will TII insist that new service stations are fitted with changing rooms?

I also have a question concerning the Galway Harbour Company. Mr. O'Gorman said that he was in the process of planning for Brexit. What are the plans and at what stage are they?

Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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My first question is a question for Cormac O'Rourke and TII. It concerns the Cork-Limerick motorway that was signalled during the week as part of Project Ireland 2040. Can Mr. O'Rourke tell us whether that motorway will be built through a public private partnership and can he tell us whether it will be tolled? If he cannot give members a definitive answer, can he give them an indication as to the likely position?

I had a number of questions about facilities and services for people with disabilities but as those questions largely have been asked by Deputy Munster, I will await the replies to them with interest.

The next question is for the chairpersons designate of the ports and I will start with a quote stating:

This is a smash-and-grab raid, redolent of a bankrupt Government philosophy. It is one thing to consider selling off the family jewels when, at least, the householder would still have access to the house. To sell off the ports is akin to the householder selling off the driveway, porch and front door to the house, then having to pay for the right to use them to enter the house in the future.

The subject matter is clear and concerns the privatisation of the ports. What is interesting is the identity of the person who made that point. While one might think it was a member of the national committee of my own party or something like that, it was actually Mr. Maritime himself, Mr. Tom MacSweeney. The witnesses should give their view to the committee on that particular quotation, which has a lot of substance to it.

My final question is for Mr. Mullins. It relates to the relocation of the port to Ringaskiddy. The commencement of the work, the provision of tax clearance certificates, the provision of evidence of insurance and the guarantee that the work is going to get done in time were all matters that came before the court two weeks ago. I believe they are due to be heard before the commercial court in July. The witness is aware that there is another controversy in Cork at the moment, surrounding a project for which a bid was placed by BAM. Initially, €20 million of State investment for that project was discussed. We are now contemplating a figure of €30 million or arguably €40 million, because apparently the State is being asked to provide so-called infrastructural support to the event centre, apart from another €10 million paid directly. These are two key projects in Cork for which this company won the tender. It turns out that for the event centre, an extra €10 million is being asked for, plus €10 million in infrastructure support. The costs for the ports run to an extra €12 million. I believe the firm told the commercial court that there was an arithmetic error when the tender was submitted.

In my opinion this is wholesale profiteering. Perhaps Mr. Mullins cannot go into the detail with a court case coming up but I am asking him to give us an idea, as the public have a right to know. What kind of delay this is likely to cause to the relocation?

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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I have some questions for Mr. O'Rourke. Under the heading of efficiency, he said in his opening statement that congestion is a symptom of economic success. He qualified that by noting that we have failed to plan for success. There has not been a gigantic increase in the population of Dublin city centre. Over three censuses, the increase has only been 13%. Most of the movements are generated in County Dublin or in the outer counties. That is under the national spatial strategy. The national spatial strategy is still in place, and very large amounts of land are being rezoned as we sit here. We are now moving in another direction with the national planning framework. One must diagnose the problem correctly. Land use and transportation planning must be in sync with each other.

What input into the national planning framework did Mr. O'Rourke make concerning the transition between those two very different strategies? Growth has mainly been in the suburbs. I do not refer to Dublin only as one should consider the growth in Cork, which has mainly been in the suburbs and in Limerick, things are exactly the same. Galway has bucked the trend, in that it is more consolidated in the centre. There are, however, major traffic problems in that city which have not been properly planned for and solutions have not been developed in a timely way. What input did Mr. O'Rourke have into initiatives like the national planning framework? What transition arrangements did he discuss?

For example, I would have thought the DART underground was a critical component in knitting in what has happened for the past 20 years and what will happen. That went all the way to railway order and then was pulled. Obviously it was a political decision that it was pulled. Would Mr. O'Rourke have prioritised that? We can see that the shared road space is causing all sorts of problems.

My next question is for Mr. Mullins on the Port of Cork. The Port of Cork is much bigger now and Mr. Mullins has described Cobh and Ringaskiddy. He spoke about there being future infrastructural development and I presume these are the locations he is mainly speaking about. What role will Cork harbour play in this? Will it have a central role? Who owns the land? It is very close to the city centre and is obviously a key location.

Can the Port of Galway succeed in the absence of transport solutions? Will investment be attracted where there is an inability to move goods to the port? What is being done and what networking is happening on this aspect?

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I thank the witnesses for their presentations. My first question is for Ms Cassidy. She stated the Marine Casualty Investigation Board can make various recommendations. From what I understand, they may or may not be adhered to. She has said recommendations can be made to owners but they do not seem to have a legal standing.

My next question is for Mr. Mullins. It is great to hear the Port of Cork has the capacity to deal with cruise liners with 8,500 people on them. Obviously it is a deep-sea port. What is the situation with the export of calves? I know there is difficulty down south with boats. Will he enlighten me on what the Port of Cork has done to help the agricultural sector, particularly in the export of Friesian calves to get them out of the country?

My next question is for Mr. O'Rourke and Mr. O'Gorman. I note Mr. O'Gorman spoke about the national planning framework. How important is it, because if we look at the new national plan, Galway Harbour Company is not in the TEN-T funding? This was the first thing I looked for when I was trying to do a deal on the programme for Government. It was said it would apply immediately. A statement was made here earlier to Mr. Mullins about the loss of TEN-T. Let us be clear that whether the British stay in or go out, TEN-T funding can be obtained even if a country is outside the EU because it has been done already.

It is great to see what the Port of Cork can do and we need to do it in Galway to be able to bring in the likes of those ships. It is a category two port. What do we need to do to bring it up to a category one port? How valuable would it be to put in place the TEN-T funding? An effort has been made on this but the planning debacle in Galway port has been going on and on. I wonder if we will ever get an answer. What has gone on is disgraceful. Am I correct that it has been going on for three years?

Mr. Maurice O'Gorman:

Yes.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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Where does Mr. O'Gorman see this going? We cannot keep waiting for a body to make a decision on infrastructure that is so crucial to the west of Ireland.

My next question is for Mr. O'Rourke. With the best will in the world, the Port of Galway has gone to planning and is doing as much as it can. Mr. O'Rourke is looking for reappointment. What is being done on this saga? For a port to survive and get better it needs infrastructure. The Galway outer ring road will take ten more years if we are being honest. Is that success or failure? In my opinion it is failure.

Mr. O'Rourke spoke about safety. Reviews were done on transport and speed limits throughout the country. Certain towns made submissions to the councils that were completely overruled by TII. They wanted to reduce the speed in those towns. The word we have got back very clearly from the councils, and we have seen what TII has said, is that it would not agree with reducing the speed at the entrance to some towns. I am astonished at this when we speak about safety. It was stated there were 500 km or 600 km where safety features would take priority, but these are dragging and decisions need to be made more quickly.

Can public private partnerships be done over 20, 25 or 30 years? What rate of interest is paid on them? Are design, build and operate contracts used? We are injecting a large amount of money into getting consultants to do all of this. I have seen a lot of building work done under design, build and operate contracts, which may cut costs. I looked at the new national planning framework and the capital plan, and the N4 and N5 are in it and there is a bit between Longford and Mullingar. There is also the M20, which is welcome. There is vague mention of Tuam to Sligo. I do not know whether Letterkenny even exists at this stage. Why is there not a view that we try over the next ten to 15 years to bring our national routes to dual carriageway status at least? Why have we not even looked at an idea other countries have looked at, namely, the two and one with a mile of double lane where people can overtake and then a single lane where it may not be possible to put in the two lanes. Why have we not done more of this? If we travel in other countries we see it is done.

Will Mr. O'Gorman give his vision of where he sees the Port of Galway going? What help does he need from politicians? It is looking at the largest sea facing us. It is great that Foynes will be a deep-sea port and it is great to hear about the Port of Cork. They are opening up tourism to those places. Killybegs and Galway need to be brought up to this standard. What is Mr. O'Gorman's vision and where does he intend it to go? What funding will he put behind it?

Kevin O'Keeffe (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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There are many questions to be answered. Some members may have gone off track.

Ms Cliona Cassidy:

I apologise for speaking out of turn earlier in the process. I will answer Deputy Fitzmaurice first. With regard to the safety recommendations, it is correct they are recommendations which may or may not be adhered to but they have been incorporated into the maritime safety strategy. They have been taken on board, we know, by particular companies in respect of recommendations that have been made and even by individual skippers and owners of vessels who have been involved in incidents. In these circumstances we do not have a stick to beat people with, and I am not sure that is an appropriate role for us. We are there to find the cause of an incident and develop the safety recommendations.

The safety recommendations should be broad enough to allow individuals or organisations to make sure they are appropriate for their purposes and indicate how they need to change something or introduce procedures and protocols.

Deputy Robert Troy's first query was about the new process. No, I did not go through the new process for this appointment. The extension is only for one year. We were in the process of looking for a new chairman. Last year the board changed a lot. It is a five-member board and last year three members changed. In addition, the secretariat comprises three members and we had two new members. There are a number of challenges facing us in terms of a number of reports received and also the incoming general data protection regulation, GDPR. I made the offer to the Department that I would remain on for one year to allow for a staggered change in the board, rather than have wholesale changes, and my offer was accepted. I only sought an extra year in my appointment as chairperson designate.

Deputy Robert Troy asked whether my lack of experience affected my ability to do the job. I may not have provided the committee with sufficient information to enable members to understand the role of chairman. Obviously, I do not investigate any incident. We have a panel of investigators who are marine surveyors and engineers who are trained investigators. We provide them with training courses that allow them to investigate and prepare reports, of which the board has oversight. We come with the safety recommendations arising from investigations. It is not the case that I have no experience of maritime matters. As I have no connection with the maritime industry, I do not see myself as conflicted. In fact, my role is to ensure there are natural justice, fair and constitutional procedures in place for investigations and the manner in which they are undertaken and reported on. We also ensure we generate focused recommendations. My role does not have an awful lot to do with experience of the maritime industry or investigations but more with the reporting element and ensuring there is independence, confidentiality and fair procedures in place.

Deputy Robert Troy asked how many safety recommendations had been directed towards the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport. I do not have a specific number for him. The majority of our reports have, at least, one safety recommendation directed towards that Department.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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What type of report?

Ms Cliona Cassidy:

My apologies. Each of the investigation reports includes safety recommendations, where appropriate. In the past five years there have been about two or three reports in which because of the nature of the incident involved no safety recommendation could be made. Other than that, there are usually between two and three safety recommendations made. The majority of the reports have included at least one recommendation directed towards the Department.

How many recommendations are adopted? They are incorporated into the maritime safety strategy launched between the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine and the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport. We are aware that marine notices are often issued and that our recommendations are considered and taken on board in reviewing various areas, possibly including legislation. I cannot state categorically how many safety recommendations we have directed towards the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport or how many have been adopted.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Perhaps Ms Cassidy might revert to us with the number and how many have been adopted, which is critical. There is no point in the Marine Casualty Investigation Board making recommendations if the Department does not adopt them.

Ms Cliona Cassidy:

As I said to Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice, we believe our statutory role is to make safety recommendations. We do not have the statutory power to assess whether our recommendations have been followed or adhered to, but I will revert to the committee on the matter.

The European Maritime Safety Agency carried out an assessment and made a number of recommendations. I undertake to come back to the committee on whether there are particular recommendations or findings and confidentiality on same. Overall the European Maritime Safety Agency was very positive about how we had implemented the directive in respect of Ireland's role.

Kevin O'Keeffe (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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How many investigations are carried out every year?

Ms Cliona Cassidy:

It depends on the number of incidents. We operate on an on-call basis. In 2016 there were 15 incidents, of which nine involved fatalities. In 2017 there were five incidents on which we began reports and of which six involved fatalities. Our automatic reaction is to begin an investigation. There were one or two investigations that we commenced on a preliminary basis and it appeared that the fatalities had been due to natural causes. In such circumstances it is not appropriate for us to make safety recommendations or we would not be in a position to do so.

Mr. Cormac O'Rourke:

As Senator John O'Mahony is not present, I shall first respond to the questions posed by Deputy Robet Troy.

Similar to Ms Cassidy, I was not appointed through the Public Appointments Service. It is a matter for the Minister to appoint members. I understand reappointments are made directly by the Minister.

On the question on savings, the original estimate of €3 million came from an bord snip nua, the group chaired by Mr. Colm McCarthy. It was he who suggested the merger of the Railway Procurement Agency and the National Roads Authority. Let us say €3 million is the baseline figure and compare it with the figure of €10 million. When the merger took place, there were just over 300 staff in the two organisations. We were in the depths of the financial crisis at the time and the employment control framework set the figure at 250. We have got the number down to 260 and the employment control framework has not been changed since. However, we can make business cases to the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and have done so successfully for the appointment of staff outside the employment control framework.

I agree with the Deputy that the Luas cross-city service has caused major disruption in the city centre, which is regrettable. We had very significant engagement with the National Transport Authority and Dublin City Council. We had a public office on Dawson Street which was a drop-in centre and many people availed of the opportunity to make representations. There has, therefore, been extensive engagement. It is fair to say a lot of work was done before we started the process on what it would take to transit the city centre.

Our original simulations showed a journey time from St. Stephen's Green to Broombridge of approximately 21 minutes. That was probably over-optimistic in optimising the sequencing of traffic lights, which is matter for Dublin City Council, rather than Transport Infrastructure Ireland. There are also issues with motorists' behaviour. In one well publicised case a Luas tram blocked O'Connell Bridge because a motorist had failed to clear a yellow box. The Garda is policing the yellow boxes at the junctions of Burgh Quay and O'Connell Bridge and Hawkins Street and Pearse Street. We hope motorists will change their behaviour over time and not enter yellow boxes unless they can clear them.

The other issue causing slower journey times is a temporary 10 km/h speed limit imposed by the Commission for Railway Regulation. This safety measure which we had not anticipated was introduced at the last moment. The speed limit on O'Connell Street equates to a slow jogging pace and is only a little faster than a reasonable walking pace - 6 km/h. We have realised the behaviour of pedestrians, cyclists and motorists improves over time. If we go back over the past 12 years, we will find that the number of people walking out in front of trams, the number of cyclists getting in the way of trams and the number of collisions between trams and motorists have reduced significantly and we are hopeful this will be repeated over time. We estimate that the journey time from St. Stephen's Green to Broombridge will reduce from the current 26 or 27 minutes to approximately 23 or 24 minutes. On the first day of operation the journey time was approximately 30 minutes. We are making progress, albeit slowly.

In terms of population increase, I am an engineer who has worked in finance, rather than as a demographer. As such, I am not qualified to comment on the projection models. The ESRI model was based on the 2016 census and I understand the national planning framework data were based on the 2011 census. We are examining what would be the effect of faster population growth. To assess journey times throughout the country, we need to drill down into small cell data, rather than the overall population.

As to whether we will have the capacity to roll out the major infrastructure, the short answer is yes. We will manage and can add additional staff. We also use outsourcing. If we do not have the ability to do design in-house, we will outsource it to consulting engineers.

I was surprised by Deputy Robert Troy's comment that we had not applied for the Juncker funds, as they are known. It is my understanding - I may be incorrect, but I will revert to the Deputy on the matter - that the bulk of the €20 billion made available for infrastructure was in debt. We received considerable support from the European Investment Bank for the M17-M18 and Luas cross-city projects. The bank was highly supportive at the time when the country was struggling to raise money on international markets.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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According to the European Commission, Ireland did not secure any transport funding from the new €500 billion fund announced last year. This was confirmed by the Transport Commissioner when he appeared before the joint committee. I did not make up my earlier statement.

Mr. Cormac O'Rourke:

I am not suggesting for one moment that the Deputy did.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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European funding was secured from other sources, but no moneys have been received for transport from the Juncker funds, although we received some funding for primary care centres under the fund.

Mr. Cormac O'Rourke:

I will look into the matter and revert to the Deputy on it.

I am not aware of the statistic that Ireland is the second worst in terms of expenditure on infrastructure. I am aware, however, that the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund have been critical of our level of expenditure on infrastructure. It is tricky for someone such as me to comment on these matters because, under the Roads Acts, I am precluded from criticising policy, while also being required to provide advice for the Government, the Department and the joint committee. No one has ever provided any guidance on how to deal with these conflicting instructions. The best I have managed, where policy is concerned, has been to try to put independent reputable research, where it is available, in the public domain. Members should be aware, however, that I am precluded from criticising or commenting on policy.

In terms of an update on the provision of service stations, we continue to spend €20,000 per month in securing the half-built stations, but I do not expect this to continue for a period of 12 months as we are in active discussions with the winning bidder. As members will be aware, we were held up by a court case which was eventually withdrawn. We hope we will be able to start construction in the next few months.

To respond to Deputy Imelda Munster, public private partnerships are complicated. The issue is that it is clearly more expensive to fund a project through a public private partnership. Deputy Michael Fitzmaurice asked what was the relative cost. Our most recent refinancing - the figure is in the public domain - shows that we refinanced the M17-M18 project at a rate of about 2.5% over 27 years. The comparable Government gilt rate at the time was approximately 1.5%. This means that there was an extra cost of 1%.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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Under a public private partnership, will ownership of the road revert to the State at the end of the contract?

Mr. Cormac O'Rourke:

Yes; there is no transfer of ownership under public private partnerships which are a licence to build, operate and return. The underlying legal ownership stays within the public sector.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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If the State did not have money, would this be a way of achieving its objectives in a quicker timeframe?

Mr. Cormac O'Rourke:

In the case of the M17-M18 project, it could not have been done because there was no fiscal space and we were in the midst of serious expenditure cuts. The cost-benefit analysis of the project was a multiple of four, in other words, the benefits equated to four times the cost. It was a very important project which was completed using a public private partnership and which could not have been undertaken at the time.

While the cost of funding under public private partnerships is clearly more expensive, they sometimes allow projects to proceed which would not otherwise be possible to do. They also include maintenance, which means that at the end of the 25 or 26 year operating period, the road is delivered as good as new. Roads in public ownership have not always been properly maintained and this must also be taken into account. The evidence from the United Kingdom, Australia and Canada is that in terms of cost overruns and delays, PPP projects have a better record than conventionally procured projects.

To answer the questions on value for money, it depends because there is no free lunch. If one is paying for something from the Government's budget for 25 years, it had better be a good project. That is what it comes down to. I quoted the IMF study of what good quality infrastructure delivers in terms of a return to the State. In those circumstances, it makes a great deal of sense to use PPPs if one cannot complete a project in another way. However, one must always strike a balance.

It is another issue which is primarily one of policy. We do not decide to do something under a PPP, it is decided by the Minister and the Department. It is used across Europe as well as Australia and Canada, which are the other big users. It is a balance and I am not sure if we have landed on whether or not it represents good value for money.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I was looking for Mr. O'Rourke's opinion as the manager of the contracts. I know use of PPP is decided by policy but given that most other countries have moved away from their use, what is Mr. O'Rourke's view?

Mr. Cormac O'Rourke:

A large number of PPPs are ongoing constantly. They happen in Germany, Spain -----

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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But there has been a tendency overall to move away from them. What is Mr. O'Rourke's opinion of the national planning framework having stated its intention to increase PPPs?

Mr. Cormac O'Rourke:

I have not had much time to look at the national development plan. I thought the general view from the Department of Finance and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform was to limit PPPs except where there is a possibility of income. That is the policy direction, as I understand it, but it has not come out finally to us. In terms of balance, if it can enable projects such as the M17 and M18 to occur at times when they would not otherwise, it represents a really good use of public money. There are other projects where it may be a little more nuanced.

Deputy Munster's question on conflicts of interest is a good one. I too have adopted the policy adopted by my predecessor where the first item of the agenda at meetings of the TII is conflicts of interest. In a country as small as ours, they do arise. I have never worked on road projects in Ireland, but as the Deputy pointed out, I do work a lot with other semi-State bodies. I have done work for the port of Cork and Mr. Mullins, for other ports, and for other semi-States. If there is a conflict of interest, the strict policy is that I remove myself, another board member takes over as chair, the item is discussed, I am called back in and told the result. The same applies to other board members in similar circumstances. I do not take part in, nor do I attend, the discussion of any areas where I have a potential conflict of interest.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Were there many occasions where Mr. O'Rourke had to remove himself?

Mr. Cormac O'Rourke:

I would guess perhaps three or four occasions in the last five years. It is not that frequent but it does occur. In terms of governance it is important that we recognise these things can happen.

Deputy Munster asked about savings on personnel. My only concern is that we have a limited range of projects. How we rank them is outlined in the appendix to my opening statement. We could probably make a case for having a greater number of projects under consideration but we do not have the personnel to do that at the moment. That was the concern I was expressing.

On the funding gap on maintenance which Deputy John O'Mahony also raised, the requirement is approximately €70 million for small maintenance projects, and is about €140 million in terms of capital maintenance, such as resurfacing. As the management team will have outlined to the committee last week, the this year we are in receipt of about €36 million for small scale maintenance works which is not sufficient to do it. The capital maintenance figures have come back up from about €70 million to €100 million and the Minister has assured us we will meet both targets by 2020, which is welcome. I always worry about cutting maintenance at a time when money is in short supply. It does not always represent good value for money but it is not something we are in control of. The Oireachtas votes the different sub-headings that we have, and we live within those. We cannot transfer money from one sub-heading to another, it is just something we have to deal with.

On wheelchair accessibility at bus stops, the TII does not have any role in relation to bus stops, it is a matter for Bus Éireann, Dublin Bus and the NTA. However, we are looking at it in relation to Luas stops. We have a standard on wheelchair accessibility for the service stations we are in control of and are re-examining them in light of the committee's questions on the previous occasion to see if we can improve on it. We have certain standards, where there is internal and external access to the wheelchair facilities and the circulation space is definitely designed to accommodate wheelchair access. We will look again at mobility-impaired standards at the very best practice.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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My question regarding service stations related to changing room facilities for people with mobility problems who required carers. Mr. O'Rourke's response was not definitive on that.

Mr. Cormac O'Rourke:

Wheelchair access is to much larger bathrooms than the norm. We used particular standards and are re-examining them to see if they need to be enhanced. Does the Deputy mean child changing facilities?

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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No, more from a disabilities perspective.

Mr. Cormac O'Rourke:

We have showering facilities. I am not sure if we have showering facilities for mobility impaired people. I will come back to the Deputy on that matter.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I wonder if Mr. O'Rourke would revert to me on that.

Mr. Cormac O'Rourke:

Certainly, I will.

On Deputy Barry's question about the Cork-Limerick motorway, it is much too early. No decision has been made on whether it will be funded by PPP or if it will be tolled. We are currently at the feasibility stage. It is a matter of policy and one that will go back to the Department for a decision, it will not be decided by us.

Deputy Catherine Murphy asked about congestion. As with everything related to roads, the answer is quite complicated. Traffic on motorways seems to grow much faster than the traffic elsewhere and seems to be driven primarily by GDP levels. The other national roads grow more slowly, and the national secondary roads do not grow either with GDP or GNP, they seem to track employment levels. We are trying to figure out in our modelling what is driving it, but there are different growth rates for the different roads. What is concerning about the M50, where there is much congestion, is that despite the congestion, it has continued to grow over the last 12 months at a level of 5% per annum.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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I was specifically referring to transition. Earlier, Mr. O'Rourke told one of the members that he was not a demographer, but one cannot ignore population. It is modelled in. There is an absence of other choices, such as public transport, so of course road congestion will grow because the alternatives are not being provided. I was specifically referring to items such as the DART underground, which would really give commuters a choice. I am shocked to hear that the national planning framework used the 2011 census when there is a more up-to-date census available. I am familiar with some of the growth rates outlined in the national spacial strategy. If one combines the three censuses of population, there is a pattern. Dublin city is growing by 13%, Dún Laoghaire by 13%, south Dublin by 28%, I think Fingal is 35%, Meath is 41%, Kildare 39%. That tells us that all the congestion is originating from the periphery.

Mr. Cormac O'Rourke:

That is correct.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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How does one transition that in such a way that it does not create congestion? One provides a solution to the people who live in one area for getting to the city centre where they need to go. What I wanted to know was does the TII have an input into priorities such as DART underground which creates that transition and is a game changer. My point is that it is astonishing that it is not one of the priorities in that national planning framework.

Mr. Cormac O'Rourke:

We have no input into DART underground. That part of the strategy falls within the remit of the National Transport Authority, NTA.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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Did that proceed all the way to railway order?

Mr. Cormac O'Rourke:

It did.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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Was it not under the remit of the Transport Infrastructure Ireland at that point?

Mr. Cormac O'Rourke:

No, TII did not have any involvement in the DART underground. It was a matter for CIE.

The Deputy is correct that in terms of transitioning, the solution to Dublin's traffic congestion is public transport. It is not, necessarily, major roads. We are doing a piece of work with the NTA on radial bus routes and radial BRT to see if we can reduce the levels of congestion on the M50. Currently, all routes go into the city such that if a person wants to go from UCD or Dundrum to the N7 or Citywest he or she has to go into town first and then outwards.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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In terms of Luas, should TII not have done that modelling first? When the Luas line was selected Dublin Bus indicated that College Green would be a problem. College Green is a problem such that we now need to look at it in retrospect. We have a fixation on working backwards from problems. I would welcome Mr. O'Rourke's thoughts on what as chairman of the TII he can do to ensure we are not always working backwards trying to solve problems.

Mr. Cormac O'Rourke:

I am not trying to side-step the Deputy's question but the interaction between the buses and the Luas is a matter for the NTA and not the TII. We do not have any input in regard to buses. On the Luas, it is a high capacity public transport item. It is useful to rehearse some of the rules of thumb about public transport capacity. Buses can carry approximately 2,000 to 3,000 passengers per direction per hour. Bus rapid transit, BRT, can carry up to 4,000 per direction per hour. The Luas can carry up to 8,000 per direction per hour. The Luas should be able to carry three and half times the number of passengers carried by a bus on the same route and this should help congestion. In regard to metro, the number of passengers per direction per hour will be 15,000 to 20,000. I do not have similar data for the DART. These are the rules of thumb used internationally for planning. I think Dublin City Council and the National Transport Authority had a different plan for the College Green area but I do not think it worked. I do not know any more about it, other than what I read in the newspapers. The prioritisation of different modes of transport within Dublin is not within the remit of the TII. Rather, it is within the remit of the NTA. We do work closely with the NTA. For the Luas, it is our sanctioning authority. We propose the projects but they are sanctioned by the NTA. There is very close co-operation between both agencies. We are working with the NTA on the knock-on effects for certain routes. I cannot say any more than that about the matter.

Deputy Fitzmaurice asked about the Galway outer ring road. I do not think it will be ten more years before it is provided. We are hoping to get the project to planning in the relatively near future. We have sought advice on the matter from the experts in the National Parks and Wildlife Service.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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I understand it has not been forthcoming.

Mr. Cormac O'Rourke:

We had some feedback from it recently.

In terms of safety, speed limits are a reserve matter for the local authorities. I am not aware of any circumstances in which that is not the case.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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According to a communication I received from Galway County Council it was overruled by Transport Infrastructure Ireland in relation to the setting of the speed limit in Ballygar. Councillors have told us that their hands are tied.

Mr. Cormac O'Rourke:

As I said, speed limits is a reserve matter for the local authorities. I am not aware of the Ballygar situation but I will look into it. Safety tends to be our first priority. I am surprised that we would have overruled a speed limit. I will look into the matter and come back to the committee on it.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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May I ask a second question at this point?

Kevin O'Keeffe (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I am sorry Deputy Ryan but we are running over time. I would like to raise the issue of potholes with Mr. O'Rourke but I will have to leave that to another day.

Mr. Cormac O'Rourke:

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Kevin O'Keeffe (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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Had any of my colleagues had the information provided today by Mr. O'Rourke during a particular debate last week in the Dáil, the Minister, Deputy Ross, would have been under fire. I now invite Mr. Mullins to respond briefly to the questions relevant to Port of Cork.

Mr. John Mullins:

Senator O'Mahony's question about Brexit is very relevant. I mentioned in my opening statement that we worked with Brittany Ferries on the development of a new route from Ringaskiddy to Santander via a new bridge - a motorway of the sea type route. We have been working hard for the past 15 months to get that up and running. The feedback so far is very positive. For example, previously the fishermen in Castletownbere would have travelled through the land bridge through the UK to the Parisian markets and the Madrid markets but they now have the option of getting to Santander in 26 hours and on to Madrid within four hours. This is part and parcel of the opportunity for aquaculture and agriculture to get to Spain and for Spanish operators to come to Ireland. We hope there will be more of this in the future. In regard to motorway of the seas routes, the reason we did not get finance for equipment upgrades in respect of the Dublin-Belfast-Cork route is because funding in that regard is subject to competition and at that particular time Brexit was not a real issue. It is now a real issue for Ireland in terms of our imports and exports. Over 90% of our product is exported through our ports. When Commissioner Hogan visited the port last month I raised with him the need for a public service obligation fund to support new motorways of the sea routes out of Ireland, whether from Dublin, Galway, Cork or Waterford, to France and continental markets such as Spain. If there is a hard Brexit and it leads to major queues in Holyhead or in Fishguard this will create an enormous issue for the supply chain. We need to undertake an audit nationally of the supply chain costs of a hard Brexit for our exporters and importers and to seek recognition in that regard from Europe.

John O'Mahony (Fine Gael)
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When the European Commissioner for Transport appeared before the committee she indicated that TEN-T was not due for review until 2020 but that that would probably change owing to changing circumstances from the Commission's point of view.

Mr. John Mullins:

To be fair, the Commissioner did mention to me that that should be considered and that we should engage with Europe in that regard. In the vein of not understanding what Brexit currently looks like, if it hardens then there is a greater case for greater funding.

On Deputy Troy's question, I did not seek reappointment through the Public Appointments Service. I was asked if I would consider staying on for another three years and I agreed to do so. Given the infrastructural changes and projects in hand the view was that continuity would be useful. There had also been a number of board changes at that juncture.

In terms of timeframe, we expect to be in Ringaskiddy by 2020. The total cost of Marino Point and all infrastructures in Ringaskiddy is €90 million.

We have full funding for that and I made that commentary in my deposition to the committee.

The Custom House is a fabulous building and warehouse which is dilapidated. It is in the heart of the city, the centrepoint of future docklands development. We already have cranes on Albert Quay, we expect more on Horgan's Quay and the Custom House Quay gives a full loop around the inner city where there are plans for significant development of office space etc.

In terms of the port services Directive, we are mindful that we are both a regulator and a provider of services. The committee should be aware we are not the only towage service in Cork Port. The Doyle Shipping Group provides a service and we compete with it. Most of the stevedoring in the port is done by the private sector.

In response to Deputy Barry's comment about privatisation. I will not give a Port of Cork view but a personal view, and I am well-travelled. National ports should be never privatised. They are too important to our infrastructure as an island. It would be inappropriate to privatise. In all of my utterances with the Department over five years there has never been an indication that would ever be considered.

In respect of the relocation to Ringaskiddy and the issue with BAM, we are in the High Court and I need to be very careful. I will say what is in the public domain, which was cited by Deputy Barry. After the offer was made to the Port of Cork in a fitting contract, European standard tender, it was claimed a mistake was made by a very large construction company. The port and I take the simple view that we were given an offer which we accepted and we want to make sure this port is built at the best price on behalf of the State. The figure of €12 million is not appropriate for us. On the legal advice we have been given we are taking it very seriously to the point that we have taken BAM to the High Court. We expect a hearing in July. Our door is open to the contractor to see if we can speed up that process. The impact of a year's delay will not be worth €12 million.

In response to Deputy Fitzmaurice, the agriculture sector is vitally important to our region, as the committee knows and the Vice Chairman is very much aware of it. We have regular interaction with the dairy sector in particular, with Dairygold, Glanbia, Kerry and Danone, which are big manufacturers. We have had to provide refrigerated capabilities on containers for transportation of proteins etc. That has been a big investment in the region. Warehousing is a big issue in the context of inventories for dairy and whey protein product. We are working with all the main providers on that. Livestock primarily goes through established roll-on roll-off routes. Our only current roll-on roll-off route operates during the summer to Roscoff. That will change with the Connemara ship to Santander also providing a year round link to Roscoff.

Kevin O'Keeffe (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Mr. Mullins. It would be remiss of me as a Corkman not to make some comments. I welcome the initiative on the Cork-Santander route. I was in Santander in my previous role as a member of a local authority and it was being talked about then. I commend Mr. Mullins and Mr. Keating on bringing it to fruition. That was very important. Mr. Mullins mentioned that 20% of national port activity goes through Cork. I would like him and Mr. Cormac O'Rourke, with whom he previously had a great working relationship, to get the infrastructure in place for access to Ringaskiddy and in respect of the Jack Lynch tunnel. It is important that road infrastructure is upgraded as fast as possible.

Mr. Maurice O'Gorman:

In response to the question about access to finance, being designated under the national ports policy as a port of regional significance, we have limited access to State and EU funding but we have had several discussions with private investors about helping to develop the port. We believe the finance could be made available. To answer Deputy Barry, again there is no plan to sell the port. There would be no plan whatsoever to sell any part of it. The plan is to develop it on a build-operate-transfer basis.

I did apply through the Public Appointments Service, PAS. It was very good, very quick, much quicker than I thought it would be. The interview process was excellent. I have many people to thank for motivating me to apply but I will not go through the list. I was encouraged by people in Galway.

On planning for Brexit, I agree with Mr. Mullins that when there is a strategy and something changes radically it is necessary to go back and reconsider ports policy to see how this impacts on all these issues, particularly ports because 90% of our goods come in and out by the ports. We definitely need to re-examine that. I understand from the Department that the scheduled review is not due to take place until 2021. It would be appropriate to review the ports.

In response to Deputy Murphy's question about traffic, I would say, having come here by taxi today, the problems in Galway are very limited compared to those in Dublin. It took an incredible length of time to get across a small part of the city this morning.

The plans for the port would be to move most of the freight by rail. There is a rail link adjacent to Ceannt Station. We plan to bring the railway line to the end of the port, parallel with the berths. Goods could be unloaded directly onto the freight trains and move off. We hope tourists coming in on cruise ships will walk across because the port is in the centre of Galway city and they could enter the medieval area there. Our plans are not for increased road traffic but we have drawn plans for a new road which could go out through Renmore and link up with the motorway. We could not build the road but we have drafted plans around that, should we see a need for increased traffic on it.

I agree with Deputy Fitzmaurice, Galway Port is a key part of infrastructure for Galway and for the west of Ireland. If we do not secure planning permission for it the port will decline because ships are getting bigger. The port can support ships of up to only 5,000 tonnes and many companies do not have ships of that size. We import petroleum and the petroleum shippers have said they want to scale up to 12,000 tonnes. If the port declines that will affect any future plans for aquaculture and anything to do with energy on the west coast. It is vitally important and we submitted our planning application in 2014.

We have a long process ahead of us.

I hope I have responded to all the questions.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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What about TEN-T?

Mr. Maurice O'Gorman:

We cannot access TEN-T at present although one of our board members, Mr. Frank Greene, has had several meetings in Europe to see how we could access different EU funding which is not under TEN-T.

Mr. John Mullins:

Deputy Catherine Murphy asked an important question about land. It was the only question she asked. We own Tivoli and the quays. We own Tivoli on behalf of the State. Our intention is to work with the National Pensions Reserve Fund to develop that to a point. We are not property developers but we want to maximise the value of that entity for the State. That is why we have six architectural designs put together for Tivoli for the future which will go out for stakeholder consultation. We are also working closely with the city council to examine how many dwellings we can put in that location. Some 3,000 to 4,000 houses and apartments could be built in Tivoli in a river side setting.

Kevin O'Keeffe (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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Another group of witnesses have been waiting outside since 11 o'clock to address the committee. Members have 15 seconds to ask their questions. There are to be no deliberations. I am serious about that as the other witnesses are waiting.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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My question is for Mr. O'Rourke and if he cannot provide the information perhaps he would send me the written details. How many road projects does TII have ready to go to tender or are in the tender process? How many rail projects are ready to go to tender or are in the tender process? How many BusConnects projects are ready to go to tender or are in the tender process?

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the chairpersons designate and particularly Maurice O'Gorman from Galway Harbour Company. My question is about Galway. How important is it that the harbour is not transferred to the local authority so we can pursue the aim of making it a national port, in view of the fact that there is no national port around the coast from Foynes to Dublin? Obviously, there are ports in the North but none in the Republic. That is the first question. The second question-----

Kevin O'Keeffe (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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Only one question please.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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It is a quick one, and Deputy Eamon Ryan will love it.

Kevin O'Keeffe (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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Senator Ned O'Sullivan wants to ask his question.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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If Galway Harbour Company proposes to have a port where many products will be transported in and out by rail, how important is reconnecting Athenry to Claremorris on the existing railway line to those plans?

Ned O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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Thank you for your indulgence, Vice Chairman, and I apologise for being late. I have a question for Mr. Mullins about Cork port. Does his board have plans to develop a liquefied natural gas, LNG, project, which was originally mooted to be established in my constituency of Kerry North?

Mr. Cormac O'Rourke:

With regard to roads, there are seven projects with planning ready to go to tender, a number are in construction and quite a number of others are at pre-planning approval stage. There are no light rail projects ready to go to tender or, indeed, even ready to go for a railway order. Metro north should start the railway order process next year. Regarding BusConnects, it is not clear to me yet whether we or the NTA would be responsible, but I think it is the NTA. We have done work for the NTA on the BusConnects projects but we do not have any now of which I am aware. However, we have done design work for the NTA on at least two projects.

Mr. Maurice O'Gorman:

In response to Deputy Ó Cuív, I met the Department about two weeks ago. That is the stated Government policy as issued in 2013 and it is anxious to see that it is implemented as quickly as possible. We are in that process and we are working with the city council now. We are going through the transfer. I do not see it as a major issue. It is similar to a shareholder register where one is moving from one named shareholder to another. It does not make a huge difference to us in terms of funding because we are not eligible for EU funding under the current policy. I have a good working relationship with the city manager and I have talked through this with him. I do not believe it is a big issue.

With regard to the line from Athenry to Claremorris, what Mayo has done for freight is fantastic. The fact it managed to keep freight open and is moving so many goods through rail freight after Irish Rail closed it down is excellent. If we could move more traffic by opening the Athenry to Claremorris line, so we could move goods from Claremorris to Athenry and on to Galway harbour, it would be excellent. It would be a great idea to re-open it.

Mr. John Mullins:

In my deposition I stated that NextDecade Corporation approached the Port of Cork. It identified the port as a location for a floating storage regasification unit, which is a different form of technology from the technology proposed in Shannon LNG, which has been established for at least a decade at this point. Clearly, the opportunity for us is increased income and increased movements of ships to the tune of approximately 2 million tonnes, which would be a 20% increase in traffic. I have a knowledge of the gas sector and I have no doubt those two projects will be competing projects. They are two different forms of technology. We are not involved in the development or the investment case. We are primarily a facilitator in the same way as Ballylongford at Shannon Foynes would be a facilitator for Shannon LNG.

Kevin O'Keeffe (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the witnesses for their deliberations and for their attendance at the meeting. After today's meeting they look to be secure for the future. We wish them the best. I will suspend the sitting until 12.30 p.m.