Conor Murphy (Sinn Fein)
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I move:

That Seanad Éireann:

recognises that: - the reunification of Ireland is an objective of Bunreacht na hÉireann; and

- there is a growing national discussion around constitutional change with people from diverse backgrounds now exploring the possibility of Irish unity; notes that: - the Good Friday Agreement 1998 provides the democratic and peaceful means to achieve reunification through the provision of unity referendums; and

- the significant Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement report, "Perspectives on Constitutional Change: Finance and Economics", which recommends the establishment of Citizen Assemblies and other relevant forums, a designated Joint Oireachtas Committee and a Government Department to take responsibility for planning and preparing for constitutional change, received cross-party support; and calls on the Irish Government to plan and prepare for Irish unity through the following actions: - establish an all-island representative Citizens' Assembly or Assemblies, to allow for informed debate, and a Joint Oireachtas Committee on Irish Unity to enable careful planning;

- produce and publish a plan towards Irish unity in conjunction with civic society and key stakeholders;

- engage with northern protestant and unionist opinion about the future of Ireland; and

- work to secure a date for the referendums on unity provided for in the Good Friday Agreement.

Nicole Ryan (Sinn Fein)
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I second the motion.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Are you sharing time, Deputy Murphy?

Conor Murphy (Sinn Fein)
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With permission, a Chathaoirligh, I would like to share my time with Senators Ryan and Andrews.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Fein)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. I thank the Minister of State for his presence in the Seanad Chamber this evening to discuss the fundamental issue of the future of our country. As we are aware, this Private Members' business was discussed in the Dáil Chamber in October. The Dáil agreed with the motion on that occasion, and I am hopeful the Seanad will adopt a similar position this evening.

The reunification of our country will be the greatest gift our generation can bestow on the young people of Ireland. Irish unity is about much more than simply stitching on the Six Counties of the North to the Twenty-six Counties of the South. While territorial reintegration is central to the unity proposition, it is the opportunity which unity provides to build a true Ireland of equals for all the citizens of our nation that is the driving ambition behind the unity campaign. Reunification is not simply the aspiration of united lrelanders; it is fundamentally supported by Bunreacht na hÉireann, and the reunification of Ireland is the stated position of all the major political parties in this State.

There is growing momentum across political, business, cultural and civic society for constitutional change. The fact that discussions are at such a level is remarkable when one considers the refusal to date of the Government to initiate a comprehensive process which would facilitate the detailed analysis and planning required for a successful unity project. The Good Friday Agreement provides the pathway to reunification. It is very straightforward. Referendums must be held concurrently North and South. The referendums must be successful and a new phase of nation-building must be initiated, one which is inclusive and welcoming and involves people from diverse backgrounds.

All of us in this Chamber know our nation's past and the colonial oppression that has been endured by our people for centuries. There were multiple references to that yesterday, when President Zelenskyy was visiting, from some of the speakers who addressed both Houses. We know too the effects that partition has had on our island.

Crucially, the Good Friday Agreement ended the war in lreland, and the current generations of children thankfully do not experience the conflict some of us grew up with. However, the Good Friday Agreement was not the end of the matter. Rather, the agreement outlined for the first time a peaceful and democratic pathway to unity. This was agreed by both the Irish and the British Governments. The referendums on Irish unity are an integral part of the Good Friday Agreement, and the Irish Government is a co-guarantor of that agreement and has a responsibility to facilitate the democratically expressed wishes of the people of Ireland. We want to be free to govern ourselves and determine our own destiny. That is what uniting Ireland is about. That is what self-determination is about. Without the right to self-determination for the people of the North, all other rights are illusory. Brexit proved that, if there were any doubt. The democratic decision of the people of the North was not respected because the right to self-determination continues to be denied.

Our economy, if properly managed, has the potential to significantly benefit from the removal of barriers on the island. The potential of the North as part of the all-island economy is extraordinary. Cross-border trade has grown from less than £2 billion in 1998 to £12.4 billion annually today. Across the North there is massive potential for renewable energy delivery, advanced manufacturing, creative industries, fintech and cybersecurity. There are world-class universities, teacher training colleges, researchers and a young, ambitious workforce. There is a vibrant cultural heritage, a thriving tourism sector and, of course, great poets, athletes and artists. The Irish language is thriving. Our hard-earned peace has benefited everyone, and we are ready to write the next chapter together.

This Private Members' motion is a call to action to the Government. We are asking that it establish an all-island representative citizens' assembly or assemblies to allow for informed debate and an Oireachtas joint committee on Irish unity to enable careful planning. We want the Government to produce and publish a plan towards Irish unity in conjunction with civic society and key stakeholders. This was also a recommendation of a committee of the Oireachtas in the previous mandate. We encourage the Government to engage with northern Protestant and unionist opinion about the future of Ireland, as we have done, publicly and privately, for many years. People from the Protestant tradition are a vital and integral part of our new shared future. There cannot be a new lreland that does not celebrate and include those from this tradition. They will be every bit as valid as Irish citizens as anyone in this Chamber this evening.

Crucially, we believe it is now time to work to secure a date for the referendums on unity provided for in the Good Friday Agreement. That means the Irish Government must, without delay, initiate a conversation with the British Government around the holding of such referendums.

Most, if not all, of us in this Chamber share the desire to see self-determination for all the people who share this island. Sometimes we differ in our view on the best path to achieving that goal, but I think the unity campaign can be a great unifier among both the parties and the people who support it. There is a major role to be played by civic and community groups, which will be central to winning the referendums. Our global diaspora must be included as well. We have an opportunity to forge a new relationship with Britain. It will always be our nearest neighbour and the ties of family and friends mean that there will always be a close affinity with that country. Going forward, it will be a partnership of equals. That is one of the lessons of the Brexit experience.The other critical lesson is that significant change must be planned for and managed by governments. The Good Friday Agreement clearly identified where such responsibility lies. To ignore the process of change gathering pace across Ireland is not simply to stick your head in the sand; it is a dereliction of duty for any sovereign government.

Nicole Ryan (Sinn Fein)
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Today, as we debate this vision and a practical way towards a united Ireland, I want to bring this conversation to a place where it is important - into the lived experiences of families, parents and women whose voices have been silenced for far too long. Yesterday, in the North, the Assembly passed the final stage of the baby loss certificate scheme. It is a compassionate, voluntary, non-legal certificate that simply says to bereaved parents:, "Your loss mattered and we see you." In the North, they have taken that step. In the UK, those schemes already exist. Yet here in the South, here in our own Republic, we still have no recognition whatsoever for pregnancy loss under 23 weeks.

The research in our own pre-legislative scrutiny makes the gap crystal clear. We currently only recognise stillbirth after 23 weeks gestation, and anything before that is treated as a non-event. Families who lose a baby at five weeks, ten weeks or 20 weeks leave the hospital with nothing. There is no recognition, no validation and no acknowledgement that the life they hoped for ended too soon. We know from comparative evidence that England’s model requires no legislation and is entirely voluntary, with no time limit on when the loss occurred. Scotland operates a memorial book and provides commemorative certificates that, again, hold no legal status but hold enormous emotional and human value. These schemes exist because parents asked for them and their governments listened, but here in the South what do we tell parents? We tell them: "It just happens sometimes. Go home and move on."

Imagine the cruelty of that. Imagine a couple sitting in a waiting room after losing their deeply wanted pregnancy and being told that because their loss happened at 22 weeks and six days, their grief does not count. Now, overnight, we find ourselves in an extraordinary and, frankly, shameful position. On this island today, one side of the Border tells parents: "Your loss mattered, your grief is real and we honour it." South of that same Border, though, our Republic is telling them: "There is no recognition for you here." This is not just a policy gap; this is a human gap and a compassion gap, and it widens every day we fail to act. It gets to the core of why a united Ireland matters.

A united Ireland is not merely about flags or borders. It is about harmonising rights, dignity and recognition for all people on this island. It is about ensuring that where you live does not determine whether your grief is acknowledged or ignored. It is about ensuring that no parent’s heartbreak is validated in Derry but dismissed in Donegal. When the North has advanced compassionate policies like this, and when the UK has long recognised the importance of certificates like this, it is indefensible that this State lags behind. The irony is that our own legislative framework already gestures towards the modernisation needed. The legislation we examined outlines provisions for such a certificate, but the actual scheme has yet to materialise. Families have waited long enough. This is where a united Ireland becomes more than aspiration - it becomes a promise. It becomes a promise that a parent’s experience will be recognised no matter where on this island they live, a promise of equality not only in sovereignty, but in empathy and a promise that compassion will not stop at a checkpoint on the M1.

In building a united Ireland, we build a fair Ireland, a kinder Ireland, an Ireland that listens and an Ireland that values the intimate and devastating moments in people's lives. Today’s motion is about the future of this island, but let us never forget the future that is made up of the stories, grief and hopes of ordinary people. Today, those people are simply asking for recognition. In the North, they now have it. In Wales, it will be there soon. In England, they have it. In Scotland, they have it. It is time, and well past time, that we have it here too. A united Ireland would not ignore those people. A united Ireland would not tell them to get over it. A united Ireland would say loudly and clearly: "Your loss mattered and we see you."

Chris Andrews (Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister of State for coming in. Very few countries have the opportunity Ireland does to redefine and reinvent itself as a State and a nation. We have a once-in-a-lifetime chance to correct the mistakes of the past 100 years and build a new republic that lives up to the values and ideals of our revolutionary past. The last century of partition has completely failed the people of Ireland. The North was cut off from the rest of the country and subjected to a sectarian and oppressive Orange state. Following the Civil War, the South became a conservative rump state, devoid of any ambition to actually deliver on the promises of independence. The heroes of 1916 and of the First Dáil certainly did not envision that the State led from this building would completely abandon the North to its fate while embracing the same economic policies that caused us so much harm while under British rule.

The establishment of the Free State did not result in a real improvement in living standards for the ordinary worker. It did not see an end to tenements, poverty, landlordism and the oppression of the working class. It did not see the revitalisation of the Irish language and culture. It did not secure political freedom for the whole country. It did not stop the flood of emigration of our young people to England and America and elsewhere. Indeed, our population continued to decline for many decades after independence. The founding of the Free State was a step forward, but it certainly was no revolution. It is up to our generation, and the generations after us, to finally fulfil the vision for the Irish Republic and build a country we can be proud of, to succeed in delivering the Ireland of Wolfe Tone, Pádraig Pearse, James Connolly and Bobby Sands.

We need an Ireland in which no person is denied a comfortable and stable home, the healthcare they need and a fair-paying job that they deserve. We need an all-island universal healthcare system, not two separate failing systems. We need a transport system and infrastructure that actually works and is not bound by an imposed Border. We need a modern, progressive constitution that enshrines a right to housing for all and respects the traditions of everyone on this island. We need a State that effectively delivers for everyone in this country, regardless of which county they live in. These goals simply cannot be achieved without ending the partition of this country and throwing off the shackles of history.

Successive Governments in Dublin have kicked this can down the road, insisting that now is not the right time for unity. With that sort of negative, pessimistic attitude, it will simply never be the right time to move the unity conversation forward. Some sort of excuse to delay progress can always be found. It is abundantly clear that people like Micheál Martin are fundamentally against reunification or any sort of ambitious change to this country, but it is equally clear that the vast majority of people in this country believes Irish unity is our future. Every Member of these Houses has a responsibility to support this motion and to work together to achieve a better Ireland.

The Irish Government is the single most important driver of unity, to hold the British Government to account regarding its obligations to hold a border poll and to shape the conversation on what the new, united Ireland will look like. Reunification is our chance to transform Ireland from north and south, east and west and to examine what it means to be an Irish person, what role the State should play in our lives and what our future republic should look like. We simply cannot afford to not embrace this opportunity and to do everything we can to secure a better future for this country.

Niall Blaney (Fianna Fail)
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I very much welcome the tone of the debate here tonight so far. It has been quite constructive. It is very important because this issue is too important not to be constructive on at this stage. I think this should be our objective across the floor of the House. It is a fundamental objective of Fianna Fáil to secure, in peace and harmony, the unity of Ireland and all its people, including those who have chosen to make Ireland their home, harnessing the full potential of the Good Friday Agreement and building consensus around a shared island.

Peace, reconciliation and unity by consent are core values for Fianna Fáil. We are proud of our record in achieving an unmatched series of historic breakthroughs. In recent decades, our party created the conditions for the ceasefires and showed incredible leadership in bringing about the Good Friday Agreement and securing its ratification. We are committed to harnessing the agreement’s full potential to work together across all communities for a shared and reconciled future. We welcome this debate and we will not be opposing the motion.

Everyone on the island has the right to make the case for the constitutional future they wish to see, whether nationalist, unionist or neither.The approach of the Irish Government in relation to unity is guided by Article 3 of the Constitution, as amended by the people in 1998 to incorporate the framework set out in the Good Friday Agreement. As the programme for Government states, we are "committed to the unity of the Irish people and [believe] that this can ... be achieved through a sustained focus on and investment in reconciliation". We all need to spend some time reflecting on the part of that sentence which got us to the Good Friday Agreement, which was "reconciliation". Fianna Fáil has been very clear. We are determined to use Government to move reconciliation on this island from being empty words to being a defining element of what Government does. I believe that more plans, following on from the work of the shared island unit and the different projects that were put in place, will now move forward as well. I back the request to Government to do so.

Looking back over the past ten years or so, one might get frustrated with the strides that have been made. Brexit certainly did not help our goals in relation to sharing this island or unity. Stormont, up and down, did not help our strides for Irish unity. We all have a job to do. As politicians on the north and south of the island, we all have work to do. That sentiment of the Good Friday Agreement is something we do not reflect on enough. It is about building reconciliation and trust. It is also about building respect. It is about the next generations. We all could do more.

I have been constantly raising the issue of the building of the A5, which probably affects the North more than most in the South. It affects us in Donegal particularly badly. We could have had that built back in 2016 when Senator Conor Murphy was at the helm and Stormont was brought down. We are now back again, we are providing funding to build it. We all need to work together to deliver this project. We cannot have any more obstruction. That is about bringing all the island together. It is about making sure that everywhere on the island has the same chances as everywhere else. It is important that the project gets over the line in a few weeks' time. It is about everybody pulling their weight and putting their shoulders to the wheel. We cannot afford for that project to be opposed any further. It must move forward.

I listened to last night's debate in the Lower House about defective concrete blocks. I listened to some of Senator Murphy's colleagues, such as Deputies Doherty and Mac Lochlainn. They were jumping up and down about a scheme that is now in place. We stood by to ensure we got the changes that were needed. They were jumping up and down and saying that the scheme has done no good. The people in Derry and Tyrone do not have a penny for their houses with mica or defective concrete blocks. We all have a job to do. We have stood in these Chambers, taken the flack, made the changes and delivered a scheme. Who is advocating for the people in Derry, Fermanagh and Tyrone? I do not know if there are also problems in Armagh but I know there are in the three counties I have mentioned because I have seen it. Who is advocating for the people there? If we want to share the island and we want to be all-island parties, it is time we all had an honest conversation with ourselves.

I think of people such as Paul Quinn. When I think of the disappeared, I think we all still have work to do. We all have to step up to the plate to do our piece because not all questions are being answered. We all have work to do. We all need to work together more. As I said, I welcome this tone tonight. Let us start working together. Let us not start applying deadlines.

In terms of the legacy, we had a good dinner with the British ambassador. We had a good discussion. It is right that we do not conflate the legacy issues that we are now dealing with and this question. If we deal with legacy in the proper manner, we can help to build more trust. By building more trust, you gain respect. All that works to Irish unity. Putting dates ahead of us is not helpful. I welcome the motion and the opportunity to speak on it.

Garret Kelleher (Fine Gael)
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I dtosach báire ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur roimh an Aire Stáit, an Teachta Richmond, atá anseo anocht chun an rún seo a phlé. I know that this is an area in which the Minister of State has a particular interest and an area in which he has done a lot of work. It is great to see him here this evening.

As a member of Fine Gael, the united Ireland party, I welcome this evening's motion on Irish unity and the continued discussions relating to the huge amount of preparatory work that needs to be done to pave the way for closer co-operation and the possibility of agreed constitutional change. As was included in the report from the Oireachtas Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement of the previous Oireachtas, as was referenced in this evening's motion, this must include significantly greater work in areas such as healthcare, taxation, education, social welfare, pensions and political representative institutions, to name but a few. As we work towards a brighter future, built on the peace that has been established over the past 25 or more years, it is essential that all of our efforts are focused on inclusion and respect. Like Senator Blaney, I welcome the tone of this evening's debate to date and, without intending to sound deliberately provocative or antagonistic, I feel it is important to point out that the prospect of progress towards a shared island and closer co-operation was undoubtedly set back many years by the futile campaigns of violence, bombings, murder, mayhem, hatred, sectarianism and division that took place during the three decades of the Troubles. The party which is proposing this evening's motion must also, as Senator Blaney alluded to, acknowledge its role and responsibilities, do more to heal the wounds of the past and create the confidence and trust that are needed to overcome the challenges that lie ahead.

I agree with Senator Murphy that the new Ireland to which we aspire cannot be created by stitching the Six Counties onto the Twenty-six Counties. That is a point I made in my maiden speech in Seanad Éireann. My fear is that many of those who have emerged from the provisional republican movement continue to aspire to a "Tiocfaidh ár lá" aspiration of a united Ireland and are focused on retribution and vengeance. That, as we all know, cannot work. We need to aspire to a united Ireland where we speak about unity in every sense of the word and everybody feels equally welcome.

My experience thus far on the Oireachtas Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement has been largely positive. However, one glaring obstacle that needs to be overcome if at all possible is the inclusion of unionist voices. Institutions such as the British-Irish interparliamentary body and the North-South Inter-Parliamentary Association are very positive and I was delighted to have been a part of the recent Oireachtas delegation in Stormont for the meeting of the North-South Inter-Parliamentary Association, where the very important issues of the all-island electricity market and all-island cancer care were discussed. I know that is a matter to which Senator Murphy contributed positively at committee level here in the Houses of the Oireachtas.

We need to aspire to greater unionist inclusion. It was fantastic in Stormont recently to be able to sit alongside MLAs from all sides and to be able to enjoy a great evening of entertainment with the Royal Hillsborough balladeers. They are affectionately known as RHUBARB.I have misplaced the acronym in my notes. It was a great evening, where people from all sides were able to enjoy one another's company. We need to work more closely together and understand the path forward, recognising people from all sides.

Senator Conor Murphy mentioned the Irish language and it is heartening to see progress being made in the likes of East Belfast Mission, led by Linda Ervine who is married to Brian Ervine, a brother of someone who was involved in the loyalist paramilitary strikes during the Troubles and brought the Progressive Unionist Party, PUP, to the negotiating table and the ceasefire. To see the love and grá someone from a background like that can have for our language gives me enormous hope for the possibilities that exist in the future.

Like my colleague, Senator Blaney from Fianna Fáil, I welcome this evening's motion, but we need to proceed with caution. My concern is about the timing of pushing for a date for referendums because a significant amount of preparatory work needs to be done in building trust and further reconciliation and looking at the detailed nuances of all areas in which progress needs to be made.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State has indicated that he wishes to come in at this stage.

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I greatly appreciate the opportunity to interject in the debate at this stage. I am extremely grateful to the proposer and seconder for tabling this timely debate. I responded to a similar debate in Dáil Éireann a fortnight ago.

Commitment to the unification of the island of Ireland is a founding principle for all parties of this Government. This Government holds that aspiration to a united Ireland in common with the Opposition. That is why we are not today opposing this motion, notwithstanding some of the political differences between our positions.

As referenced by Senator Kelleher, this matter is of sincere personal interest to me and I am grateful to Ireland's Future and its chair, my dear friend, Senator Black, for offering me the opportunity to contribute to the ongoing conversation. I acknowledge the presence of Professor Colin Harvey from Queen's University Belfast, who has played a major role in furthering this conversation. I am not sure whether it is appropriate, but it would be remiss of me not to cite the Cathaoirleach's influence and work on this, particularly when we were both Senators and he commissioned the first report on the future reunification of our country. I joined him on a few flights and I could not believe he managed to get a copy on the plane with how heavy it was. He was definitely over some baggage allowances. However, in all seriousness, that is the sort of level of discussion, debate and contribution we should all expect.

I will address some of the points raised in due course, but it is important to lay out the Government's position in detail before this debate continues. Every Irish Government must be guided by Article 3 of the Constitution, which states:

It is the firm will of the Irish nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions,

Article 3 recognises that Irish unity can only come about in accordance with the principle of consent. That constitutional amendment came as part of a reimagining of relationships on this island and across these islands. It is an essential part of the delicate balances that made the historic settlement possible. The spirit of harmony and friendship it speaks about, and its commitment to a unity that respects the diversity of the people of this island, are descriptions of our destination. After more than 27 years, the Good Friday Agreement remains our guiding principle. The agreement recognises the legitimacy of whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland, whether that is to remain in the union or unify our nation.

If there is to be a border poll, the constitutional future of the island will be decided by a simple majority vote, 50% plus one. That is what the agreement says and despite what some people may argue is needed, that is the legal definition and it is important we maintain that clarity in the debate. That was part of the bargain in 1998: the promise of an end to violence, replaced by a commitment to exclusively peaceful and democratic means to answer the constitutional question.

All of us in government, and I know in this Chamber, are committed to enduring peace on this island and to the unity of its people. However, despite the monumental progress that has been made, it is important we recognise that challenges still exist. Communities remain further apart than we envisaged and hoped when the agreement was signed. This is not to say a perfectly reconciled society or island is a precondition to constitutional change. Such perfection is beyond us, but we can, and will aim to, do better. That work requires leadership from every part of society, including politicians, educators and civic and church leaders. It requires generosity of spirit in dealing with those from backgrounds different from ours.

The programme for Government states our position clearly. We are committed to the unity of the Irish people, and we believe that we will only achieve that through a sustained focus on, and investment in, reconciliation. That is financial as well as emotional investment. We are committed to enhancing co-operation, connections and engagement with all communities and traditions to build a shared future. We are hard at work preparing for this shared future, whatever shape it takes, as well as building a better Ireland today.

The Ireland Senator Andrews described is unrecognisable to me and different from the Ireland I lived and grew up in. The progress that has been made since the foundation of the Irish Free State has been monumental and we should recognise that advancement and the role society as a whole has played in much of that economic and social advancement. We are quite clear we have an ambitious agenda that is delivering tangible results for the people of this island and we will continue with it. We continue to capitalise on the window of opportunity offered to us by the reset in Ireland-UK relations. In fact, the British-Irish Council, which is meeting this week, is focusing on creative industries, which are important to our cultural and economic lives. This biannual meeting established by the Good Friday Agreement continues to bring together the Governments and Administrations of these islands to explore how we can continue to build prosperity for our people. The UK-Ireland joint statement agreed in March at the UK-Ireland summit makes clear that the reset in our relations will only be meaningful if it includes and delivers for the people of Northern Ireland. Senator Blaney referenced quite eloquently the real obstacles to prosperity and reconciliation that have come from political quarters in the past decade or two. We must acknowledge that and ensure those obstacles are not allowed to crop up again in the debate.

At the heart of our role is as co-guarantor of the Good Friday Agreement; our shared responsibility for peace and reconciliation across these islands. The Government, through the shared island initiative, is putting a sustained focus on building a shared, reconciled future for all communities on the island. It has supported large infrastructure projects such as the upgrading of the Dublin-Belfast rail link to an hourly service and the construction of the Narrow Water bridge. Senator Conor Murphy will have been able to take advantage of at least one of those. This will be the first bridge connecting North and South since partition and, when complete, it will be a boon to tourism in the Carlingford Lough area and a symbol of peace and connection in the locality and on this island. That kind of symbolic and practical connectivity is hugely significant in terms of reconciliation and how we can better and more productively share this island.

The shared island initiative it is not limited to large infrastructure projects, however. It also supports media, the arts, emergency planning, the environment, entrepreneurship and many other sectors. On 18 November last, the Cabinet approved ten new shared island fund allocations of up to €56 million, including €2 million for the introduction of a Dublin-Derry public service obligation, PSO, air route; €5.9 million for cross-Border emergency-management capacity building; and €6 million for the new shared home place programme, to mention but a few. We continue to work with the Northern Ireland Executive through the North-South Ministerial Council, one of the cornerstones of cross-Border political co-operation.

I remember fondly that when he was the economy Minister in the Northern Ireland Executive and I was a Minister of State in the Department of enterprise, one of my first meetings was with Senator Conor Murphy. We made some commitments on a ministerial level that have borne fruit, such as joint trade missions to Singapore and greater co-operation between Invest Northern Ireland, IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland. We must maintain that level of commitment, and I hope the Senator keeps watch on his successors in office to make sure they do because it is important.

At the most recent plenary meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council on 17 October last, among the issues discussed was co-operation on emergency planning and preparedness between the two jurisdictions. Supported by the shared island initiative, fire and emergency services from both sides of the Border are deepening their co-operation to enhance capacity and training on management of flooding events and on technical search and rescue operations. Sadly, in the past calendar year, there have been many events, particularly extreme weather events, that have recognised no artificial Border on this island and it behoves us all to have the level of co-operation that, at times of great peril, have brought out the best in our communities. Now, from a political and leadership point of view, we must make sure they are practical and resourced because these practical examples of co-operation can only serve to enhance the lives of all of us who are lucky enough to live on this island.

As I said earlier, the Good Friday Agreement further states that an essential aspect of the reconciliation process is the promotion of a culture of tolerance at every level of society.These practical initiatives I have just highlighted are an important part of building our shared future, but more is required. We must also be ready for challenging conversations to create a more reconciled society.

It is no great mystery - I come from the minority religious tradition. I am the grandson of an Orangeman. The Cathaoirleach and I have visited unionist and loyalist communities together as proud republicans who are united Irelanders. I must say, in the presidential election campaign, a level of vile sectarianism was unleashed that I thought had died off. Heather Humpreys is a friend of mine. Regardless of any politics or electoral things, what she was subjected to and what her husband was subjected to online and in person was so disgusting. It reminded me of growing up in the late 1980s and 1990s, going to visit family in Ballynahinch or Banbridge with red, white and blue bunting everywhere and being really worried about where we would bring our southern registration car. I definitely could not wear my “Jack the lad” t-shirt and tricolour shorts. Without being glib, that has been released and we are starting to see it creep back in with a level of acceptance. I welcome Senator Murphy’s comments in particular on the need for reconciliation but I would invite all Members of this Chamber to vehemently condemn that level of returning sectarian abuse. We cannot have that come back into our Republic. We are better than that. I really hope the sort of abuse that my late parents would have grown up with in Dublin, or lived with in Dublin, at the height of the Troubles for being part of the minority community and being othered or seen as lesser citizens because of our religious background should be gone. It is a brutal form of prejudice. We see it more widely in society and we rightly condemn racism, homophobia and hatred that, unfortunately, is unleashed online but I do not think we have been loud enough in our very clear and unequivocal condemnation. We must continue that and look at it again.

Niall Blaney (Fianna Fail)
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Hear, hear.

Neale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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The Government and, I trust, every Member of this House are committed to supporting inclusive dialogue with all communities and traditions alike.

I want to address one point Senator Nicole Ryan raised in relation to pregnancy loss. This is something that touches every household and family and does not recognise any border. The points the Senator made were very well put. It is a little bit far from my remit but I am more than happy to bring it up with the relevant Minister and I hope we can get a resolution on that long before this House is dissolved, if not before.

I want to reassure the House that the Government is not blind to the growing debate on our constitutional future - some of us have even joined it. The opposite is true: we follow it very closely; we participate in it. However, in purely practical terms, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland must call a referendum if it appears likely to him or her that there is a majority in favour of a united Ireland. However, the Secretary of State has stated unambiguously that there is no evidence that the necessary conditions have been met. If there is a future referendum within the consent provisions of the Good Friday Agreement, we will make all necessary preparations in accordance with the terms of the Constitution and the principles and procedures of the agreement. There were two points raised in the motion that refer to an all-party Oireachtas committee. A great deal was done by the committee in the previous Dáil and I welcome that being brought up again in this Oireachtas but that is a matter for the Houses of the Oireachtas rather than the Government. On the citizens’ assembly, I have had the debate many times: do we have it before the decision is made that a border poll is required or afterwards? Will we really get buy-in if it is just an aspirational thing? I think it merits deeper thought and discussion. That is not to dismiss it but it is not the catch-all or win-all. Maybe it is like the “Field of Dreams” and if you build it, they will come. I remain very much open-minded on that. Therefore the Government has no issue supporting this motion.

The key point remains. The most important thing we can do at the moment is to promote reconciliation - real reconciliation between affected communities but also breaking down the real but invisible barriers that all of us surely recognise. Think of people from Senator Kelleher’s constituency of Cork North-West or Senator Conway’s constituency of Waterford, bearing in mind that Senators’ constituents are the whole island. Of the people from their localities, how many actually travel to Belfast or Derry? How many people from Belfast come down to spend time in Dublin for sport, culture or heritage? We are not doing enough to break down that barrier. We need to get more people to view this as a single destination and crucially, from a political and governmental point of view, we need to make sure the agreement’s institutions work and deliver for people in meaningful ways that they can feel in their day-to-day lives. After far too long, we are finally starting to address the legacy of the past. We will hold the British Government to its word to faithfully follow up its responsibilities in that regard. However, if this is to be successful and we are to build a united Ireland and fulfil the dream of generations of bringing our nation together under one state, we have to make sure that unity is not only towards a united Ireland but a better Ireland and a shared Ireland. I am more than happy, as Senator Blaney said, to work with every single politician, from all parties and none, and every member of civil society and beyond to achieve that aim, regardless of the position I hold.

Michael McDowell (Independent)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak on this subject and welcome the tone in which this debate has been carried on so far. It seems to me that, although I admired him greatly, Seamus Mallon was incorrect in one matter, and I am glad the Minister of State has stated that. I refer to this notion that somehow it would be better had the Good Friday Agreement stipulated something more than 51-49 and given more of a comfort cushion to unionism and that somehow this would have been more conducive to better relations in Northern Ireland. Let us just remind ourselves of one fact: there would have been no Good Friday Agreement if it was not 51-49.

Those who call for an early referendum on Northern Ireland should understand some basic rules of politics. One of those rules is that in order to get a referendum passed, 51% of the people have to look at what is on offer and say that is better than where they are at the moment. If you ignore that, you are going to lose. All our experience in this State in referendums has always been that it is very easy to oppose a referendum. It is very easy to work on people’s fears and emotions. It is very, very easy to build up at least 30% or 40% of "No" votes. We had the children’s referendum and I was astonished that a percentage somewhere in the high 30s voted "No" when there was not even a single political party advocating “No”. What I am saying now to those who, like myself, aspire to a united Ireland is that a package has to be prepared that will be supported by 51%, at least, of the people of Northern Ireland. For that to happen, 51% of the people of Northern Ireland will have to be convinced that by marking a particular box on a ballot paper they will be better off, not worse off, and their future will be better if they mark the box beside “Yes” rather than the “No” box. That is the fundamental reality. Sinn Féin calls for various steps to be taken to articulate what a united Ireland would be, can be and should be. I aspire to a united Ireland like it does but I wonder why it is that those who call loudest for an early poll are the people who have not done the homework themselves. Where is the document? There was “Éire Nua” when I was a kid in college. Where is the document now where Sinn Féin says, “This is what we believe a united Ireland will be and this document can be read by everybody in Northern Ireland - Protestant, unionist, Catholic, republican, loyalist, nationalist, whatever you want - and this is our vision for a united Ireland”? Where is the document that sets it out not just in visionary terms but details precisely how it will work?If, for instance, someone is a doctor in the Northern Ireland health service - I heard it mentioned here that there will be a new health service - will that be better? Will there be more resources? If someone is a lawyer in Northern Ireland, will the courts system and the legal system there be absorbed into a new all-Ireland system or will it be preserved for the time being? Will there be transitional provisions? What will be the effect in the context of all sorts of practical issues?

Much more importantly, in accordance with the Good Friday Agreement, what is going to be the dimension of this new Ireland which is going to recognise Britishness and the loyalist and Protestant traditions in Northern Ireland? How is that going to be given concrete effect? I say this to Sinn Féin: go and do the work.

On one occasion I made the point at the JFK summer school that a confederal system on this island, a transitional arrangement, is more likely to succeed in getting to 51% support than a big bang whereby one day we all wake up to an entirely new state with entirely new institutions. People have fears, even those in the South, regarding issues such as whether the Constitution will still protect their property rights. All of those issues will work to decide, one way or the other, whether there is going to be at least 51% in favour of a united Ireland. People are not going to buy a pig in a poke.

I will happily work with anybody to generate a model or a number of models designed to get 51% support. Northern unionists, Protestants and Northern Catholics who are disposed towards remaining in the United Kingdom have to be shown that somebody is coming up with something that is better than the society in which they live at the moment. That requires really hard work. It requires work on the part of the southern Government. It also requires that those who are involved in the political process south of the Border state what it would be like if people voted "Yes" for a united Ireland. If we do not spell out the package in absolute detail, then the relevant proposal will be defeated in a referendum held on both sides of the Border. It could even be defeated in the South as well as in the North.

Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. This is a timely motion. I thank the Sinn Féin Senators who brought it forward for giving us the chance to discuss this most fundamental issue in the House. As someone who lived and worked in the North before and after the Good Friday Agreement – I worked across all communities – and who is from the Border region, I have a strong interest and belief in the successful reunification of our island. We all know that the Ireland of today, North and South, is greatly changed from that of 1998, when the Good Friday Agreement came about. Our society is now pluralist in nature, North and South. The very concept of national identity is unrecognisable today from what it was a century ago. On our island, it is a living, breathing thing. This makes it all the more important that we abide by the principles of the Good Friday Agreement. Our goal must be to achieve the consent of the maximum possible number of people from all traditions.

As a lover of Gaeilge, our native tongue, I see the potential that embracing our culture can bring in the context of inclusion and as an antidote to the poison of extremism and exclusion. This is not wishful thinking; it is a historical fact. The 1911 census showed that up to 17% of all people on the Shankill Road - all Protestants - had some level of Irish. Hidden Ulster: Protestants and the Irish Language, the 1973 work by the late Pádraig Ó Snodaigh, tells the same story, namely of a strong proportion of Gaelic speakers among Scottish settlers in Ulster. The real truth is often more complex than the simplistic stories we tell ourselves.

As was mentioned earlier, Brian Ervine, brother of David Ervine of the PUP, spoke about this more than ten years ago when, as a champion for the use of Gaeilge, he said that Irish could no longer be used as a cultural stick with which to beat unionists. Linda Ervine, who is married to Brian and who I had the pleasure to meet, is on record as saying that Irish is very much the language of Protestants, unionists and even loyalists. The phrase she used, "Is Éireannach mé-ach is Briotanach mé fosta", is one we should encourage not disparage. She and other language enthusiasts successfully opened a naíscoil in east Belfast in 2021. Its motto is "Páistí sona ag foghlaim le chéile" or "Happy children learning together". This is what unity means.

Organisations such as the Hume foundation and the Shankhill women’s centre have been instrumental in bringing about peace and unity within the various communities in the North. They have done this, offering leadership in peaceful change, brought forward through thought-shaping activities. This period of preparation should be used to engage in thought-shaping activity. We need a radical approach towards our relations with other communities that share our island. It is our challenge to further extend the hand of friendship in equality and justice to the other people who share our island and to engage with northern Protestant and unionist opinion about the future of Ireland.

Engagement cannot be a repeat of the dysfunctional Northern Executive, where the two largest parties rely upon a division, which as the signatories of the 1916 proclamation stated, was "carefully fostered by an alien government" to maintain their own positions. The consent of a majority on both sides of the Border in a border poll is a legal necessity, but a majority cannot simply be 50% plus one. We cannot force through a unification upon an unwilling minority.

As a party, we absolutely agree that an all-island citizens' assembly or assemblies - ideally approved by the Stormont Assembly as well as the Oireachtas - should be an integral part of the preparatory process. We would also like to see a Green Paper and a White Paper that would identify problems and solutions ahead of the citizens' assembly process.

As has also been mentioned, the welcome work of the Taoiseach's shared island unit has been a hugely positive initiative, but now is the time to move towards real preparation. As the Minister of State indicated, many people will vote on the basis of economic and social issues every bit as much as on the basis of their national or cultural identity. We will of course discuss and debate flags and anthems during this process, but as John Hume famously said, "You can't eat a flag". That has been well accepted at this stage.

My party, the Labour Party, is the oldest political party in the State, and was founded on the ideals of James Connolly. We aspire to an equal, fair and united Ireland. Connollyite republicanism means that Irish reunification is about more than changing the flag in the North to the Tricolour and expecting northern society to just row in behind our way of doing things. As James Connolly said:

If you remove the English Army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organisation of the Socialist Republic your efforts will be in vain. England will still rule you.

We believe that building a state that will work for all citizens is an important part of building the argument for a united Ireland. We will only achieve our potential when we genuinely plan and actively work for a shared future. This motion sets out some of the processes that will need to be undertaken in advance of a united Ireland. This is the time for preparation. This can no longer remain an academic debate.

I am very heartened to hear the Minister of State fully supports this motion. We need to act on the proposals in the motion and begin the serious process of planning towards reunification. It is a real privilege for us to stand here and have this conversation and that we are alive at a time when we can do so. I am happy to support this motion. I do so with hope and expectation that we do so in a spirit of fairness, co-operation, and equality. Mar a deir an seanfhocal, "ar scáth a chéile a mhaireann na daoine".

Frances Black (Independent)
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It is great to see the Minister of State here. I commend Senator Conor Murphy and his Sinn Féin colleagues on introducing the motion. It is a fantastic idea. I welcome the opportunity to contribute. It is great that the Minister of State is supporting the motion.

We are living through a momentous time of opportunity for our country - with reunification closer than ever. We have the hope of a united and shared future, the end of harmful separation and corrosive division and the achievement of national reconciliation. A new and united Ireland is within our reach. As we consider this prospect, we should recall time and again that the conversation about constitutional change is framed by the Good Friday Agreement, as a matter of law and of politics. Our collective commitment to a united Ireland also remains at the centre of our own Constitution. The choice is hard-wired into the governing arrangements for the North. The EU has recognised that a vote for unity will mean automatic return for the North. I know that is something the Minister of State is specifically interested in. We are moving from aspiration to reality. What may have once seemed a distant dream is now on the horizon. We cannot forget the promises made about a united Ireland and the way we will share our island in the future.

We cannot forget that a united Ireland will be a shared island. People have a choice that will involve the right to self-determination and the principle of consent.We are not surprised that so many in the North now want to exercise that, and we must accept that the evidence strongly suggests we are on a pathway to that border poll. The well-evidenced trends are there for us all to see. As the British Brexit shambles shows us, it is essential to plan and prepare properly in advance of any such vote. We have to get this right.

My view is that we are entering a phase in our history when a referendum in the North can be won. We must think about that for a moment, and the practical implications. The British Government will not be able to delay this forever. We have to accept that. We cannot ignore the clear evidence. As I said, change is coming, and we have to be prepared for it. Now, it is the mainstream debate. It is happening in every household around the country. We know that, and we cannot forget how we got here. Therefore, I take this opportunity today to commend all of those over the many years who have played a leading role. That includes the civil society group I am involved with, namely, Ireland's Future, academics such as Professors Colin Harvey, John Doyle and Seamus McGuinness, who have all appeared before the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement many times, initiatives such as the Analysing and Researching Ireland North and South, ARINS, project, the all-Ireland women's assembly, which is doing phenomenal work, and, of course, the shared island unit and Mr. Eoghan Duffy, who is doing great work in this area.

I commend the efforts of political parties, including Sinn Féin’s commission on the future of Ireland, the SDLP's new Ireland commission and those parties that have made significant interventions, including the Labour Party, individual members of Fine Gael like the Minister of State and the Cathaoirleach, Senator Mark Daly, from Fianna Fáil, and the ongoing work of our own Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement. As the Minister of State said, it is essential that parties work constructively together in the common goal of achieving unity. In particular, I pay tribute to all those from a traditional unionist background who are displaying genuine civic courage, including Rev. Karen Sutherman, a good friend of ours who is now co-chair of Ireland’s Future, Ms Claire Mitchell, Mr. Ben Collins, Mr. Glenn Bradley, Mr. Davy Adams and Mr. Wallace Thompson, who, as the Minister of State might know, has not been too well recently. We send him good wishes. I will be hosting a briefing in the new year with all those people, who are coming to the audiovisual room. I would encourage everybody to come to that briefing.

There is an onus on us to ensure that this place is welcoming to all. We need to demonstrate every day, in word and deed, that a new Ireland will be inclusive of all identities. I believe that the Ulster-British tradition will be central to making a success of a united Ireland.

The progress we are all making is truly remarkable, so what are the next steps? In 2024, Ireland’s Future launched a landmark publication, "Ireland 2030: Proposals for the Period Between 2024 and 2030", where detailed proposals were advanced. These include an all-island civic initiative, the creation of dedicated governmental structures, a new Oireachtas committee, which the Minister of State mentioned, and the steps needed to deliver a programme for a new Ireland. The Ireland's Future document followed widespread dialogue and engagement, including with all political parties, and it is heartening and encouraging to see so many give constitutional change such a place in their work. It is a joy to be working in that area. The presidential election showed us again the genuine appetite to talk about and prepare for a united Ireland. I agree with what the Minister of State said, in that it was terrible to see what happened to Heather Humphreys.

Let me conclude. A new Ireland is affordable, manageable and deliverable. It promises a better and fairer future for all our people, a remarkable opportunity now to be grasped. Preparing well is wise, and the last five years focused on raising the profile of the debate. The next phase will be equally challenging. If we are serious about our timeframe, this must include a politically negotiated timetable for a border poll. This will assist in bringing much-needed clarity and certainty as we prepare for constitutional change.

I support this significant motion today. I thank all Sinn Féin colleagues for tabling it. I also take the opportunity to commend the vital work of the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement. I think we need an Oireachtas committee specifically on this, which I know is something the Minister of State thinks is a great idea as well.

Joe Conway (Independent)
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Tá sé de phribhléid dom a bheith páirteach sa díospóireacht thábhacht agus thráthúil seo anocht. Fearaim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. Tá sé ag fágáil faoi láthair ach ar aon chuma, it is very nice to see him here and ably replaced by the Minister of State, Deputy Murnane Connor, whom I am meeting for the second time today.

I would like to share with the Minister of State the fact that I am equally privileged because even though I have been living in County Waterford for close to 40 years, I was brought up in a small village in County Longford called Ardagh. Ardagh is an ecclesiastical establishment that dates back to St. Patrick and St. Mél’s time. It is celebrated both in the Anglican Communion and the Catholic Church as an episcopal and diocesan centre, that is, the Diocese of Ardagh and Clonmacnoise, which the Minister of State will probably be familiar with, and the Anglican Communion Diocese of Kilmore, Elphin and Ardagh. It is a planned village. Those of you who ever get the chance should go and see it because it is the most beautiful planned village, with cut stone and immaculately kept. It twice won the Tidy Towns competition.

I am saying all of this because the village was planned by the local landlord, George Fetherston, back in the early part of the 19th century. He built those houses that are still there today to house his imported workforce. I do not know why he did not trust the Irish locality to supply him with labour and skills, but he did not anyway and a lot of the people who lived in those houses came in from the UK. That left a village that I grew up in that was still significantly a Protestant village. Maybe 25% or 30% of the village population were from the Anglican Communion, and I am delighted that it was so, because it gave me a lifelong acceptance and enthusiasm for neighbourliness between Catholics and Protestants in this country, which is fundamentally behind the whole issue we are discussing tonight and that is unity.

During the past summer, I was on holidays on Inis Meáin. The Library service here gave me the loan of a very fine book, which I saw on the shelves down there and asked if I could take it with me for the summer. I think it should be mandatory reading for every politician in this country. Its title is Southern Irish Protestants: Histories, Lives and Literatures, written by a fine academic called Ian d'Alton. He never uses the phrase "Anglo-Irish" but refers to the Irish Protestant class from the 19th century into the 20th century when they were fearful seeing home rule coming down the road, how they responded to the challenges and the new State, and how they were fearful of the new State and all the things that were part and parcel of the Irish southern Protestant. If we want to seriously look at the challenges of unity, we should look at this. Every section of Irish society has been mentioned in the debate so far, but nobody has said a word about the Irish southern Protestants. They have a huge amount to contribute to the unity debate in their own quiet way. I will cite for the Minister of State a small section from one of the final chapters of Ian d'Alton's book where he wrote that how we treated them or how we had treated them since the foundation of the State should really be a pointed template to the Protestant community in the North of Ireland.

As Senator McDowell listed out, there are enormous challenges to be overcome socially, politically and economically - the challenges of a united Ireland. It is so easy to talk about the aspirational business of a united country. I remember my late father used to say that he would never see it in his lifetime. I do not suppose I will see it in my lifetime either, but it is a wonderful aspiration to have. It is not without its pitfalls, however, and the last thing we want is something to happen as happened in 2014 in Scotland when the referendum on nationalism went off half-cocked and, of course, was defeated. Therefore, there has to be an amazing amount of preparatory work put into this before we take it on. Members might bear with me while I put on my spectacles. I just want to read these four or five lines from Ian d'Alton's book because they are rich in wisdom.He says:

...it may be presumptuous and utopian to offer the southern Protestant journey as possibly, in the fullness of time, one for consideration by my northern co-religionists and unionist friends [Ian d'Alton obviously is a Protestant]. They're welcome to the template.

The theme is echoed in the foreword to the collection. The distinguished author, historian and civil servant that he was, Ian d'Alton lists out the great challenges we have to convince the people of the unionist community in the North of Ireland that maybe we can offer a more successful and exciting template of a unified Ireland than we have seen emerge since the independence of 1921 and 1922. I do not want to see a united Ireland where any part of the community is cowed into an unwilling silence that in many ways the southern Irish Protestants were.

We have a lot of thinking to do and unity is so aspirational. It is a wonderful thing to throw out, but by God it is going to give us a lot of challenges in the years ahead. I implore those who are driving it that they do not fall into the same pitfall of a mistake that was made in Scotland a decade or so ago, when it was done without prior forethought and was then too easily torpedoed. I think it has put the whole question back for generations to come in Scotland and I would not like to see a cock-up here that would put it back in the same way for the society on our side of the Border and on the other side. There is so much to be done before any unity poll should be considered.

Cathal Byrne (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the opportunity to discuss this issue. I thank the Sinn Féin Senators for putting it forward. I am from Enniscorthy, a town deeply rooted in the story of Irish republicanism. I grew up listening to stories about the Battle of Vinegar Hill, the United Irishmen of 1798, the rebellion of 1916 and of Robert Emmet and Wolfe Tone. They were big influences on my view of politics. I support the idea of a united Ireland. It is a deeply held belief and passion of mine. It is one I welcome the opportunity to speak about this evening. While I fundamentally disagree with so many issues and policies of Sinn Féin, on this issue we are in common cause. I will be supporting this motion and welcome that the Government is also supporting this motion, and it is great that the Minister of State is here. On this issue, it is important we recognise that in order for there to be a referendum, there must in the view of the British Secretary of State be a majority position on reunification held in Northern Ireland. My view is that the Government has to prepare. In fact, I am critical of the view that this is not a fundamental priority for any Irish government. It is my belief that reunification of this country has to be one of the top priorities for every government and must be until the point when Ireland is one united country in the future.

I was seven years of age when the Good Friday Agreement was signed. I do not have any memory of the Troubles growing up. I do not have any memory of the Omagh bombing. Those were simply issues that came along far beyond any living memory I have. I am from a different generation. I do not remember news reports of bombs going off, tragedies and deaths. I simply do not, but I am a passionate believer in the need for a united Ireland. The real question is how we get there. The Government has said it does not foresee a referendum taking place within the decade. I think we have to take the steps now to put in place all necessary provisions for what that referendum will look like and how it will work. I support the idea that we should have an Oireachtas committee examining what that will look like. The shared island unit needs to go further and faster. We have to make all necessary preparations, and it is so important that, in this Chamber and the Lower House, we have opportunities to discuss these issues. If we do not put the necessary groundwork in now across all aspects of government, then a referendum will come along and we will not have fully thought out what it will look like, how it will pass and how we will build a majority on both sides of the Border to make sure it does happen. I would be absolutely devastated if there were to be a referendum on a united Ireland and it did not pass.

It is so important that the work is put in now so we build through and on the idea of consent, recognising the importance of reconciliation and that any referendum that happens will be contentious, divisive and require buy-in from all sides. I look forward to the day when all Members of this House are on doors campaigning and canvassing, explaining to people how important this is and explaining to voters that this is something that needs to happen and needs buy-in. While there would be a perception out there that my party is maybe not as strong on this issue as it needs to be, I joined Fine Gael because I believed fundamentally that it is a party for which this is a core priority. The full title of our party is Fine Gael, the united Ireland party. When it was set up, that was one of the founding beliefs and remains so to this day. I recognise the work that was done, including by former Taoiseach Enda Kenny, to ensure that when a reunification referendum takes place and were it to pass, Northern Ireland would automatically become a part of the EU, a point made in this Chamber by Senator Conor Murphy. That is so important. I fundamentally believe in this. I really support this and will work with anybody in this Chamber on this issue. I believe in all of the parts put forward in the motion this evening. I want to see the Oireachtas set up a reunification referendum committee. It is important that happens. I want to see this getting top priority in the Government, and I want to see in my lifetime a referendum held and one that is going to pass. I really want to see this. I appreciate that, at 34 years of age, maybe this will not come to be. However, if we do not take the necessary steps now to put this in place and work towards it, then it will be left to another generation and another generation after that.

Garret Kelleher (Fine Gael)
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I understand Senator Tully is sharing time.

Pauline Tully (Sinn Fein)
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I am sharing with Senators McCormack and Collins.

Garret Kelleher (Fine Gael)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Pauline Tully (Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the Minister of State. I grew up in County Cavan, which is a Border county. I grew up long enough ago to know and remember what a hard border was like. It was a Border imposed over 100 years ago without any consultation, purely for political reasons, by a British Government. It created two conservative states, one on each side of the Border. It did not just partition our country. This Border partitioned our people as well. It divided people and created a partitionist outlook. I know while things have moved on and the hard border is long gone, the impact of that still remains. The north west is one of the poorest regions in the EU for infrastructure, and that really affects investment. We need to see the end of a border in Ireland. By doing so we have the opportunity to create a new republic, a country that will embrace all of our citizens, Irish, British or other. The issues that affect people on the ground, whether they live in Fermanagh or Cavan, Dublin or Belfast, are ordinary issues like housing, health, disability and childcare. We have an opportunity to oversee the establishment of new all-Ireland departments that will deal with those issues. We already see where we have co-operation on issues such as health. We need to see more of that. It makes sense in a country this size. I was a member of the Good Friday Agreement committee in the previous term and some good work cross-party work was done on constitutional issues. An in-depth look was taken at the economic impact of a united Ireland, of an all-Ireland health system and the role of women in that. We can build on that, but we need the Government to lead on the preparation for Irish unity. I do not want to see a referendum happen without the preparation, but I do not want to see it pushed onto the long finger.

We need to engage with all sectors of society. We need to engage not just with other political groupings but marginalised groups like women and people from other countries. In order to do that, we need a forum of some sort. Whether that is a citizens' assembly or it is called something else, we need the engagement to start. Engagement is happening on the ground, but it needs to happen at formal level led by the Government to ensure we create an Ireland of equals for all our people.

Maria McCormack (Sinn Fein)
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I wish to talk about the inclusion and leadership role Sinn Féin has taken in this. I wanted to talk about the benefits of an all-island healthcare system, one that is not based on a two-tier system. It is really important, listening to the contributions to the debate, that I outline some of the steps our party has taken and the work we have been doing.

Sinn Féin has been in dialogue and negotiating but also sharing power at Stormont with unionist parties for 20-plus years. We are listening to and engaged with civic unionism, not only political unionism. On taking office as First Minister for all, Michelle O'Neill said in the Assembly:

As an Irish republican I pledge cooperation and genuine honest effort with all of those colleagues who are British, of a unionist tradition and who cherish the Union.

She has lived up to that commitment in both word and deed. Her first visit as First Minister was to the loyalist Shankill Road to meet the community along with Deputy First Minister Emma Little-Pengelly. She also said:

I will serve everyone equally and be a First Minister for all. To all of you who are British and unionist [I say this]: your national identity, culture and traditions are important to me. I will be inclusive and respectful to you. None of us are being asked to surrender who we are ... Let's walk this two-way street together and meet one another halfway. I will be doing so with an open hand and with heart.

I will give examples of how Michelle led the way on unionism and inclusion. She went to the funeral of Queen Elizabeth II and the inauguration of King Charles III. She laid a laurel wreath at the cenotaph in Belfast for Remembrance Sunday last year and just last month. It is really important. We are engaged in dialogue. We have been out on the doors in these unionist areas. I have knocked on doors, spoken to people myself and talked about the benefits of a united Ireland. We have to remember the work our party has done since the Good Friday Agreement.

Joanne Collins (Sinn Fein)
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When we talk about a united Ireland, people often imagine big constitutional debates and the big questions, but every fabric of our society is affected by constitutional change. If planned and prepared for, we can tackle it for the best outcome. An example of this can be seen today with farmers across the island who are looking at their herd wondering what is going to happen tomorrow. For farmers North and South, this week has brought real fear. Bluetongue, a disease spread by midges, was first confirmed in two cattle near Bangor. Now we are hearing that 44 more suspected cases are on the same holding. It does not affect humans but it hits animals and livelihoods hard, and it reminds us that nature does not see partition.

Here in the South, we are waiting for vaccines to be licensed. In the North, those vaccines can already be used if needed. Two farms maybe only a couple of fields apart are facing the same threat with different tools. That is the reality of division on this island. It is not a theoretical problem but one that could cost a family its incomes, its families and its future. When a crisis like this happens, farmers do not care about jurisdiction. They care about whether their animals can be protected. They care about whether their neighbours across the Border are facing the same rules, restrictions and risks. Surely we owe them better than a patchwork system where disease response depends on which side of the Border the wind blows the midge over.

A united Ireland, in whatever form it ultimately takes, offers something deeply practical: the ability to act together when a crisis strikes - one veterinary system, one vaccination policy, one island-wide plan for animal health, biosecurity and food security, not two competing regimes trying to chase the same disease across a Border that the disease itself does not recognise. Unity is not just an aspiration; it is a way to be smarter, safer and fairer. It means that for farmers in Donegal and Antrim, when the next outbreak comes - and it will come - we can respond to it as a one-island community, not as two separate administrations scrambling to co-ordinate under pressure. A united Ireland is not only about identity, it is about resilience. It is about the simple truth that we are stronger when we face into the storm together. If bluetongue has shown us anything this week, it is that challenges, for the future, will not wait for political alignment. They demand co-operation now and unity in the long term.

Garret Kelleher (Fine Gael)
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If there is nobody else offering, I call Senator Murphy, the proposer, to conclude the debate.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Fein)
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I thank all those who participated in the debate and I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Murnane O'Connor, to listen to the conclusion of it. In the short time I have, there were so many opinions and ideas shared that it is not possible to do justice to them all. I will deal with a few specific points and then maybe some of the themes.

Senator Blaney mentioned the A5. I was actually Minister for Infrastructure from 2007 to 2011 when that was announced by the North-South Ministerial Council. I had to remind him, and I will remind him again, that the money was taken off the table by the Government led by Enda Kenny at that stage, which was an enormous setback to the A5. It is not a matter of political disagreement that holds it up; it is a matter of courts. There is political agreement to go ahead with it. Thankfully, the money is back on the table and of course we will all pull together on that.

The Minister of State, Deputy Richmond, mentioned sectarianism in his discussion and I fully agree with his abhorrence of that and its use in the presidential campaign. Being a party that, more than most, gets those kinds of vile attacks on social media, we fully understand the damage that does, but sectarianism is the antithesis of republicanism, and certainly the antithesis of the republicanism I stand for.

Another theme that was mentioned was legacy, and I fully agree there is a need to pursue that project. There is an idea that post Civil War, the parties who formed Governments here simply drew a veil over that. Multitudes of people were disappeared in the Civil War and the War of Independence with no questions answered, no process for truth and no closure process. That clearly was a wrong approach to take so we would be fully in support of a legacy process. That is why we reached an agreement in 2014 in Stormont House, which I was part of with the other parties and both Governments, to identify a legacy process to try to deal with those issues. Unfortunately, the British Government walked away from that unilaterally and now we are back to the stage where we are trying to put that together again. I fully agree with the idea of legacy and we are fully on board with that and the contribution it can make to reconciliation. I agree with the point Senator McCormack made about reconciliation. We have worked assiduously on it. I have been involved in this process for more than 30 years.

There is one difference I would remind the Government parties of. The tone of the debate has been good and I am respectful in saying this. We took the choice to go into Stormont in 1998. It was not something we wanted to do but we did that because we agreed it was a space where we could work with unionism on matters of importance to both our communities. That choice was also available to Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael but they chose not to come North and they chose to allow us to do the heavy lifting with regard to reconciliation. Then they tell us that the two communities have not moved close enough together and we cannot progress other matters. To me, that is hypocrisy. If you want to be involved in reconciliation, then get involved with the rest of us and help us with the heavy lifting. Various Ministers, and I have met plenty of them over the years, have come North and privately said, "How do you deal with these people?" Then they tell us that a deal has not been good enough and we cannot move forward. Let us all work together on that and step up to the plate with regard to reconciliation.

There are two key points I would make regarding preparation and this is where I feel there are two areas the Government is deficient on. The Minister of State said that "the Secretary of State has stated unambiguously that there is no evidence that the necessary conditions have been met" with regard to calling a border poll. He also said there is no evidence of any conversation, which defied all logic and available evidence. The question is, does the Government agree with his position and his assertion? If the Secretary of State continues to say that in the face of mounting evidence to the contrary, is the Government prepared to go to the British Government and say it is wrong and that the evidence does support the need for a border poll? Or is the Government, as this statement seems to indicate to me, opting out of that? That is a major deficiency we need to hear from the Government about.

Second, the Government says it is not planning for unity, and I agree entirely with Senator Byrne's contribution. Senator McDowell chided us for no preparation. I must introduce him to the Sinn Féin website where you can find copious documents in relation to all-Ireland matters. The Government is staying out of that. On the one hand, it is saying there is no evidence of that, that people have not come to terms, and Senator McDowell makes the point that people need to understand the proposition. The central political entity which will be involved in shaping the new Ireland is the Irish Government, and it is not now putting on the table its ideas for that, how it would manage it and what its preparations are for changing two administrations into one administration.If the Government is waiting for the Secretary of State or the British Government, in its own interests, to decide that the time is right for a border poll, what preparation is it involved in for that?

Those are two areas of deficiency on which the Government needs to step up to the plate. We must be told what conversations it is having or will have with the British Government. It cannot simply leave it back to the judgment. This has always been the case even though that is stated in the Good Friday Agreement. The real politics of this, as everyone knows, is about a conversation between the Irish and British Governments to decide when a border poll is called. The Government cannot opt out of active preparation. It cannot tell the rest of us we need to engage more, involve ourselves in reconciliation and do more to persuade people while itself opting out of that process. The Government has the resources to do all of that. We have limited resources but we try every day to do it. The Government has the resources to say to people, "Here is our view of what unity would look like and what the steps towards it would be." That has not happened and it needs to happen. It is a major deficiency in the Government's approach to this project.

Garret Kelleher (Fine Gael)
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When is it proposed to sit again?

Cathal Byrne (Fine Gael)
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Tomorrow at 9.30 a.m.

Garret Kelleher (Fine Gael)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.