Seanad debates
Wednesday, 26 September 2018
Order of Business
10:30 am
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, Copyright and Other Intellectual Property Law Provisions Bill 2018 – Second Stage, to be taken at 12.45 p.m. and to be adjourned at 2 p.m. if not previously concluded, with the time allocated to group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes and to all other Senators not to exceed five minutes; No. 2, Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017 – Committee Stage, resumed, to be taken at 2 p.m. and to be adjourned at 5 p.m. if not previously concluded; and Private Members' business, No. 70, motion 14, to be taken at 5 p.m., with the time allocated for the debate not to exceed two hours.
Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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We read about the predictions of growth from the ESRI and that it will be near 10%, depending on who is doing the numbers. Yesterday, we had the UN human development index showing that Ireland had jumped from eighth in the world to fourth in terms of health, education and income, which is to be welcomed in terms of life expectancy, educational attainment, health and people's wages. We also see on the reverse end of that scale, however, homelessness and housing as an ongoing issue. The Government is blaming others rather than itself, and it does not seem to have a plan, or rather it has many plans, because we have seen how many times it has announced them, but it does not have plans that it implements. No one is being held to account for that, although the blame seems to be transferred from the Department down to the local authorities.
We would like to see the real plan and the real figures. The Department continually issues figures but these have been challenged in the media by Dr. Lorcan Sirr and others who show the Government portraying houses being built when often they are just being reconnected to the electricity system having had their electricity turned off. The Department knows this and knows it is giving false figures but we cannot even get it to admit the truth until it is found out by experts.
I would also like to raise the issue of the human tissue Bill, which the Minister for Health has announced again some 13 years after it was first announced. In particular, I want to raise the issue of presumed consent, the idea that every one of us is an organ donor unless we opt out, and that there will be a very expensive system whereby we would opt out if we did not want to be organ donors. This has not worked effectively anywhere else in the world. Mark Murphy, CEO of the Irish Kidney Association, who is an expert in this area, has said time and again that despite the idea of presumed consent, with a register and so on, the family would still be consulted as to whether their loved one would be an organ donor. This means it is not really presumed consent and it is talked of as a soft opt-out. This is all done to distract from the fact the health system is not working properly and that we have so many people on trolleys. I suppose it might provide a brief respite for the Minister.
Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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We have a driving licence system through which we collect the information as to who wants to be an organ donor. In May we had the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport in the House and we explained to him, although he was not aware of it, that he shares data on people's driving licences with private companies like eFlow, those doing clamping and the Courts Service. Despite this, he does not allow the health service to access the information that is in the driving licence registry of who does and does not want to be an organ donor. It is a simple systems failure, like our organ donation system itself, where we spend hundreds of millions every year on dialysis.
If we had proper systems whereby health professionals were able to contact the driving licence authority and then tell people that their son or daughter wanted to be an organ donor and that they have a copy of the driving licence, they would be able to inform families of their loved one's intentions. While that simple change to the system is not being considered, the Minister is proposing a grandiose opt-out system that will cost millions, even though the family will still have a veto, as they should. Does that sound like a system that is working or a system we should have, when we have a driving licence system in place that checks every ten years whether someone wants to be an organ donor?
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is over time.
Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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By the way, in a ten-year period we will spend over €1 billion on dialysis whereas if we had a proper, functioning organ donation system, we would not only save money but also save lives.
Victor Boyhan (Independent)
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In the very near future, not necessarily in the next week, I would like a debate on housing. While I will not rehash all the arguments from the debate in the Dáil yesterday, what we can say is that we have 31 local authorities, 10,000 people in emergency housing, 3,600 of whom are children, and more than 100,000 people on housing waiting lists. That is one side of the problem. The other side is that we have thousands of people who cannot afford either to purchase or rent a home. Many of them are working and they include couples with combined incomes who still cannot afford to purchase or rent. The issue is to increase the supply and have affordability, whether purchasing or renting. We should have a debate on that in the House.
I bring up the issue raised by Independent Deputy Tommy Broughan when he questioned the Minister, Deputy Zappone, in the Dáil last week, namely, the confirmation by Tusla that there are in excess of 900 vacancies within the organisation and it is spending €2.5 million a month on average to bring in locums and various other people to supplement its staff. That is a frightening figure. I am very supportive of the Minister, Deputy Zappone, her work and her commitment to reform Tusla, which is an organisation we all know needs reform. Will the Leader ask the Minister to look again at all of that and to come back to the House at some stage? We might have statements on Tusla, although not just on the bigger picture, given Tusla is such a big organisation, but also in regard to resources and the 900 vacancies that the Minister confirmed to the Lower House. A number of county and city councillors have contacted me about pyrite, the Pyrite Resolution Board and, more important, pyrite redress. The last seems to be a big issue for many people. Pyrite is a major problem for those whose homes have been affected. I am not 100% sure of the current position in terms of the board or the policy of the Government. Will the Leader ask the relevant Minister with overall responsibility for this particular area to come to the House, make a statement and update the Members on the status of the Pyrite Resolution Board and, more important, how the Government proposes to put in place a meaningful and appropriate redress scheme for the people involved?
Rose Conway Walsh (Sinn Fein)
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The relevant Minister is the Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government, Deputy English, and he is working on the pyrite issue. I support Senator Boyhan's call for him to come to the House. I tabled a Commencement matter on the pyrite redress scheme in the hope that it would be taken today but it was not accepted. It is very important that the hundreds of families, particularly across Mayo and Donegal, who are affected by pyrite know where they stand. They are looking keenly for the establishment of a redress scheme to be announced in the forthcoming budget, as was promised by the Minister of State, Deputy English. I would appreciate if a debate could be arranged for this week.
Ba mhaith liom cómhbhrón a dhéanamh le chlann Tom Molloy, ceoltóir iontach as Mulranny i gContae Mhaigh Eo a fuair bás an seachtain seo caite. I pay tribute to Tom Molloy. He was part of a family group called the Molloy Brothers and they are traditional Irish musicians from Mulranny in County Mayo. Tom and his brothers are renowned for their music and have performed in many venues across Ireland, England and throughout the world. They played a piece of music called the "Leaving of Liverpool" for John Lennon when he visited County Mayo in 1969. It is timely that this weekend the town of Ballina in County Mayo is hosting the music sessions and arts festival called the Other Voices. The festival is a prestigious event in the music calendar and I wish everyone in Ballina well for the weekend.
It was pioneers such as Tom who helped to place Irish traditional music at the centre of the folk revival. Tom and his brothers helped to showcase Irish music across the world. I extend my sincere condolences to his wife, Geraldine, his sons, Enda and Thomas, and his daughter, Elizabeth. What the Molloy Brothers did for County Mayo and the music industry as a whole will never be forgotten. It was not only just that. They were so kind and always agreed to do charitable events. I know even from my time in England it was always a pleasure to meet the Molloy Brothers and Tom Molloy. They did what did with joy in their hearts and showed kindness wherever they went.
I wish to highlight a programme called "Finné" that will be broadcast on TG4 tonight. The programme is on the death of another Mayo man, the Mayo hunger striker, Frank Stagg. His brother, George, recounts Frank's last days and how his body was hijacked by the Irish Government. I am sure Senators will remember that he thought the body was being flown into Dublin Airport but the plane was diverted to Shannon Airport and Frank's body was taken away from his family. The programme tells the personal story behind the event. I commend Pat Kenny on the way he interviewed George Stagg about the story for Newstalk yesterday morning. The story of what happened to Frank needs to be told and put in context.
I will quote what George said when Pat Kenny asked him whether it was worth it and whether he would do it again. George described how his brother, Frank, had been influenced by the Ballymurphy massacre in Belfast, internment and what had happened in the North. George said that just because Frank was from Mayo did not mean that he was any less affected by what happened in the North and he saw the need to fight back because of injustices, such as the injustice in Ballymurphy. I commend those in TG4 on their bravery-----
Rose Conway Walsh (Sinn Fein)
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-----in highlighting many of these issues and on broadcasting the programme. I urge people to watch the programme and judge for themselves. The programme will be broadcast at 9.30 p.m. on TG4.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I call Senator Lynn Ruane. I congratulate her on her very successful book launch. It was a great night in Trinity.
Lynn Ruane (Independent)
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I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach. I wish to raise the case of Sean Binder. He is 24 years old and hails from Togher, County Cork. He was a classmate of mine in Trinity College. For the past year he worked for an international non-governmental organisation, NGO, called the Emergency Response Centre International on the Greek island of Lesbos. He co-ordinated search and rescue activities to provide emergency assistance to incoming refugees who landed on the island.
Last August, Sean was arrested by the Greek authorities and now stands accused of involvement in human trafficking, money laundering, espionage and membership of a criminal organisation. He potentially faces 20 years in prison. Sean denies all of the charges made against him. He is being held in a Greek prison where his family and friends are deeply concerned for his safety. He can be held for up to 18 months without being charged or sent to trial. His mother has launched a public campaign and called on the Irish State to exert pressure and influence to guarantee her son's safety. I hope that all of Members will support her call. Sean is a young man who lived all his life in Ireland. He graduated from university in Dublin. Following the conclusion of his studies he decided to travel to Greece and dedicate his time and energy to literally pulling refugees from the Mediterranean Sea. We have a responsibility to ensure the safety and security of this young man. I ask the Leader to communicate to the Tánaiste the urgency with which this case needs to be treated and ask for an update on consular efforts or progress that has been made.
Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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I raise the issue of the Pharmaceutical Society of Ireland (Temporary Absence of Pharmacist from Pharmacy) Rules 2018 that are with the Minister for Health. The last intake of students for the pharmaceutical assistant course was back in 1985. There are about 300 pharmaceutical assistants, of which 95% are women, and they are employed in pharmacies throughout the country. In the temporary absence of a pharmacist they are entitled to provide cover in the pharmacy for maybe two and a half days at a time or at lunchtime when the pharmacist takes his or her lunch break. The current proposals made by the Pharmaceutical Society of Ireland are before the Minister and allow the pharmaceutical assistants to provide cover for up to one hour per day. At present, if the pharmacist goes out sick, the pharmaceutical assistant can provide cover for the entire day. The legislation was last amended in 1994. If the current proposals are accepted, pharmaceutical assistants will not be able provide cover. It is possible, therefore, that a pharmacy will have to close because such assistants can only provide cover for up to one hour per day.
Many of these women have more than 30 years' experience. The last of that cohort of assistants are now in their late 50s, so it is not like there are many of them waiting to come through the system to reach retirement age. Pharmaceutical assistants are not covered by the fitness to practise legislation. They are also not covered to continue their education, yet they choose to attend further education courses that are run for both pharmacists and pharmaceutical assistants. Many of the latter participate on these courses of their own volition.
The pharmaceutical assistants are not members of the Irish Pharmacy Union but the union supports them in their plight. The union has written to the Minister urging him to work in a more cohesive manner on the following: to recommend to the Pharmaceutical Society of Ireland that it reconsider its stance and develop a core competency framework for pharmaceutical assistants similar to the one that applies to pharmacists; to bring the assistants under the fitness to work banner; and to make it compulsory for pharmaceutical assistants to attend the continuing education courses. Such actions would provide the necessary assurance to the PSI council and to the public of the competence, knowledge and skills of pharmaceutical assistants. Also, pharmaceutical assistants would be able to continue to act safely in the temporary absence of a pharmacist under the current conditions.
This matter is very important because we all visit pharmacies at least weekly and we never know whether we are dealing with the pharmacist or the pharmaceutical assistant. That many of these pharmaceutical assistants have in excess of 30 years' experience must stand for something.The Leader might be able to bring that issue to the attention of the Minister because it affects every city and county.
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I refer to the 2018 report of the European Parliament Constituency Committee. As the Leader is aware, there is a proposal to increase the number of seats for Ireland from 11 to 13. However, if one looks at the map, the obvious place to increase the number of Members, with respect to the Clerk, would be the Midlands-North-West constituency. It has four seats currently but the Members elected from that constituency should take on responsibility for representing the people of Northern Ireland who will be disenfranchised when the United Kingdom leaves the European Union. I believe it would be appropriate if that area was to be allocated an extra two seats.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I could not hear the Senator. To which area is he referring?
Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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The Midlands-North West constituency, comprising the area from Louth to Donegal, which adjoins the Border with Monaghan, Cavan and into Leitrim. It would be appropriate that the members elected from that constituency would represent the best interests of the people of Northern Ireland also of all denominations and none. The committee, with respect, should have taken that into account but it is obvious it did not because it did not increase the number from four to five. It increased the number for Dublin from three to four and the number for the South from four to five. It is a long way from Belfast to Cork. It is not a long way from Belfast to Dundalk. When the legislation is drawn up the Government should take that situation into consideration. The people of Northern Ireland are entitled to representation in the European Union after the United Kingdom leaves, even though Northern Ireland voted to remain.
An interesting point about this is that the two members taking their seats in the new European Parliament after May 2019 will be subject to the withdrawal, legally, of the United Kingdom from the European Union. Technically, therefore, the 11 seats will stand until the United Kingdom legally leaves the European Union, which may not actually be for five years; we do not know. However, the United Kingdom has decided to withdraw in March 2019 in advance of the European elections in May 2019. The four or five people who are elected from what I call the Border constituency of Connacht-Ulster - and I know this recommendation will be accepted by the Government, as have all previous recommendations - should pledge to support the people of Northern Ireland and be available to them in order to put their views to the European Union. They should be available to meet them throughout the length and breadth of Northern Ireland. That is a commitment any candidate should make, and I put it up to the candidates now. If they are seeking nomination, their pledge should be that they will equally support our divided brotherhood in Northern Ireland as one united Ireland represented by them in the European Union.
Gabrielle McFadden (Fine Gael)
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I raise the plight of assistant psychologists. These people study for three years for their undergraduate degrees, and most of them pay approximately €10,000 to do their masters degrees. They then become assistant psychologists but they do not get paid work. To get paid work, they have to study for clinical doctorates but in to gain admission to the relevant course, they have to have experience. These young people are then forced to work for nothing. I know a young lady who works five days a week in a local business for the minimum wage and then works two days a week, free of charge, as an assistant psychologist. This lady is working seven days a week for the minimum wage. Most of those jobs are in Dublin so she is travelling from the country to Dublin for two days a week, putting petrol in her car and having to stay overnight, to work for the minimum wage. That is not good enough. She uses the few bob she earns from the local business to fund her working. I strongly believe that there is not a trainee psychiatrist in this country who is asked to do that. It is not fair or equal that a psychologist would have to do it. As we all know, the waiting lists for people suffering with mental health issues are very long. That puts pressure on general practitioners, who are struggling. There is also a waiting list for children with educational difficulties, therefore, there is a clear need for clinical psychologists.
I ask the Leader to consider inviting the Minister to the House for a discussion on this issue. It is not fair that young people who pay for their college education and study hard end up having to work free of charge. I welcome the children who are in the Public Gallery. Some of them might be assistant psychologists one day and I hope when that day comes, they will be paid for their efforts.
Maire Devine (Sinn Fein)
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I raise the issue of the Public Service Pay Commission. The Psychiatric Nurses Association of Ireland and the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation, INMO, are meeting today to discuss the findings of Public Service Pay Commission and figure out how we can correct the problem of more than 2,000 vacancies throughout the nursing profession. The Public Service Pay Commission has stated that there is no issue with nursing recruitment, but that is inaccurate and misleading. The dogs in the street know it is an issue. The staff and the patients know it is an issue. To take psychiatry alone, mental health is spoken about a great deal. The latest audit of nursing vacancies indicates that the number of unfilled nursing posts in mental growth is growing, and there are 700 posts vacant in that speciality alone. That is nearly 200 vacancies since last year when the last audit was done. There are 88 vacancies in St. Ita's Hospital and 76 vacancies in St. James's Hospital. In Dublin north city, there are 56 vacancies, 62 in Galway, 46 in Louth-Meath and so on.
The Public Service Pay Commission has ignored the scale of the mounting recruitment and retention crisis facing our entire health services. Retirements projected over the next five years will put further pressure on an already broken system. The conclusion of the pay commission that there is no issue with nurse recruitment is completely at odds with the evidence and experience of nurses and patients across the services. The reality is that there are ongoing vacancies, in some places as high as 25%, which are impacting daily on the delivery of health services. In particular, the staff shortages in child and adolescent mental health services are well documented, as is the excessive and expensive reliance on overtime and agency nurses throughout our services. Nurses argue that these staff shortages are unsustainable and can be best addressed by a pay rise across the grade. Will the Leader ask for a debate with the Minister about the Public Service Pay Commission and the reason it rejected across the board pay rises in services that are much needed for the health of our nation? It has ignored the mounting recruitment and retention issue.
Tim Lombard (Fine Gael)
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I congratulate the communities throughout the country that were involved in the Tidy Towns competition. Those volunteers have done Trojan work in every village and town. A certain town in Mayo was one of the national winners but rural towns such as Kinsale and Clonakilty retained their gold medals and Bandon got a bronze medal this year, which was very important. The work of those groups needs to be acknowledged. They are the true heroes of the community. They go out to ensure our towns and villages look very well. The knock-on effect is that the communities get support by way of tourism or industry. They are true heroes, and we should acknowledge that. I refer to an issue which arose at the education committee yesterday regarding the school transport service. Another colleague in the Chamber was at the meeting. It is one of the key issues at which we need to look. I raised it last week, am raising it this week and will probably raise it again next week or until there is some action.
The Minister in charge of the school transport service must come to the Chamber to go over the policy issues which are impinging significantly on people going to school. It is almost impossible for a person to get a bus, in particular in my part of the world, where he or she is just outside the area. There is no leniency and discretionary tickets are fading away because of population increases, in particular in the larger towns and villages close to schools. That means there is a knock-on effect on children in rural areas who cannot access a school bus service.
I have listened to the debates on this for the last 18 months and have continuously heard that it is a policy issue. As such, the Minister must come to the Chamber. We need a real debate on the vision. What does he propose to do for the education service to ensure that students can get school transport? The system is currently ineffective because it discriminates down to the square mile or even in terms of a matter of a hundred yards, as in some cases I have encountered in recent weeks. In fairness to Bus Éireann and other providers, they are only following the letter of the law. There must be a total change in the 314 districts in place now and the way we ensure bus services get pupils to schools.
There is a degree of discrimination involved here. If one is far away, one is excluded and told one is in the catchment of another school. That does not always work depending on the parish one lives in or the local demographics. If one has a parish which is aligned with a secondary school in the nearest town, pupils always go there. As such, a bus service should be provided. The whole system needs a real overview. We need to schedule time and to bring the Minister to the House. It is not about budget issues; it is about a change in policy and a complete review. What I really need is for the Leader to see if we can get the Minister to come to the House so that we can have a complete review of the policy. The policy is broken and, unfortunately, the service is not working.
Kevin Humphreys (Labour)
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Following that, while I accept that there is a real issue in rural areas regarding the school transport service, what must be reviewed at the same time is school catchment areas. Sometimes catchment areas do not overlap correctly with the result that children are refused access to schools. It is a real and urgent matter that we must deal with. We will have to see the Minister work with the Department of Education and Skills to bring forward a solution. I welcome the fact that Senator Lombard has raised the issue today. It is one we need to address quickly. Certainly, he will have my full support on that.
As to the upcoming budget, I note that I am privileged to work with an all-party group on dementia. We have put forward budget proposals detailing approximately €50 million of investment in community supports for people with dementia. While it will be difficult for the Leader to have the Minister attend prior to the budget, I still wish to raise the matter. If the Leader has an opportunity to raise the matter with the Minister, I would appreciate it if he does so. I will give the example of two areas where a small amount of money could make a huge difference. Within our submission, we ask for €1.4 million for dementia advisors to work with families and GPs across the country. That alone would help people to stay within their communities and raise the level of awareness among GPs and families of the available supports. While supports exists, sometimes people find it difficult to access them due to lack of knowledge. Dementia advisors would help in that regard. We have also asked for €3.1 million to provide centres of excellence to support GPs and families. These centres of excellence would be located in primary care centres and could cross over with supports for Down's syndrome also.
If we could get the Minister to come to the House it would be, above all, to discuss home-care packages. We have requested €6 million to provide home-care packages for people with dementia. This is the second budget where there is a bit of wriggle room. This is a growing problem nationally. If we could start this year to provide an additional €6 million towards home-care packages for people with dementia, it would have a real impact for people suffering from this, assist their families and allow people to continue to lead productive lives within their communities. I know time is tight and I will fully understand if the Leader cannot get the Minister to attend within the period. However, if the Leader could raise the matter, I would appreciate it.
Paul Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I raise an issue which was brought to my attention regarding low-charge and flat-rate telephone calls, in particular involving numbers with the prefix 076 and 1890. In particular, I highlight the use of those numbers by public bodies and public services. Unfortunately, many of our public bodies' websites include only these numbers for customers to call. The fictitious belief is that they are low-charge or flat-rate numbers, but they are only so when one calls from a landline, not from a mobile. We are in an era now where very few people, in particular in the younger generations, know what a landline is. All of our business is being done via mobile. While the phone numbers in question are referred to as low charge or flat rate, the flat rate is 4 cent per minute, approximately, on average across the different providers. However, if one rings those numbers from a mobile, the average can go up to closer to 40 cent per minute, which is a tenfold increase.
Everyone is aware that when one rings one of these bodies, one will be put on hold and bounced around from option 1 to option 2 or 3. A phone call can easily take ten minutes, which is €4 for people who cannot afford it and who need the services. A few of the services brought to my attention or seen by me in my research only have these numbers on their websites. These include the National Driver Licence Service, PAYE inquiries to Revenue in Westmeath and the Data Protection Commission. Public services and bodies should be obliged to include a landline number because most mobile providers now provide packages where calls to landlines are low-cost anyway. People who need a service should not have to pay up to 40 cent per minute to try to get through to a human being on the other end of the line. This needs to be done and it is remiss of the bodies concerned not to have a landline along with those so-called "low-cost" numbers.
Frank Feighan (Fine Gael)
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Brexit is looming very large and we are coming to the end game. Brexit is bad news for the island of Ireland, the UK and the EU. I was at the Labour Party conference in Liverpool for the last two days and was encouraged to see the party coming out with some sort of position. Yesterday, the party said it would look at a referendum option where no final deal emerges from Parliament. That has to be welcomed by this House. It would absolutely block a no-deal Brexit. I do not know what happened over the last few years, but people are beginning to come out and stand up. I noticed yesterday that 95% of the people at the conference wanted to remain in the EU and felt that Brexit was wrong. I applaud the Labour Party for standing up. I see that Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the Labour Party, is due to meet the EU chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, in the next few days, which is also very welcome.
I pay tribute to a friend of mine who is also a very good friend of Ireland, namely, Mr. Stephen Pound, MP for Ealing North and the Labour Party's shadow Minister for Northern Ireland. He was on Twitter and Facebook where he said this was a matter of life or death for the people of Northern Ireland. He knows and cares about it. There are enough people in Westminster from an Irish diaspora background who actually care about us and who are beginning to stand up. We must work together now to ensure Brexit does not happen. It is bad for the Good Friday Agreement and it is bad for the island of Ireland. It is catastrophic for the so-called United Kingdom and the EU.It is catastrophic for the so-called United Kingdom and the EU.
Colm Burke (Fine Gael)
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There is quite a large amount of vacant property. We must take action to bring these properties into use and if necessary use the taxation system in the upcoming budget, and make it difficult for people to leave property vacant. I am a little concerned that while it complains night and day about the issue of housing, Sinn Féin proposed to one local authority in Cork that property tax be reduced by 15%. The latter would give rise to a reduction in income of €1.69 million. Property tax generates funding and it is a disincentive to leaving properties vacant. If property tax is reduced, that encourages people to leave properties vacant. I am somewhat surprised that, on the one hand, Sinn Féin wants more action taken in respect of housing but, on the other - and by means of taxation reductions - it would encourage owners to leave properties vacant for longer periods. The party needs to clarify this. It is unfortunate that when there has been a real increase in income in this country, it is talking about reducing property tax when in real terms it is beneficial to local councils and the services they provide. If €1.69 million is coming out of the income, that affects the provision of services. The party might keep that in mind on the next occasion when its members at local authority level start proposing decreases in property tax.
Maire Devine (Sinn Fein)
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Another vote of no confidence.
Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Fianna Fail)
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Every day, there are people outside Leinster House seeking help and they have been feeling very helpless lately. I do not blame them because it seems nothing is being done for them.
Earlier today, I joined the Lyme disease awareness rally with Lyme disease sufferers, some of whom I know, their families and friends from every county in Ireland. They simply want to be heard on this horrific disease and are holding this rally to raise awareness of its symptoms and also the treatment and prevention available. They want Lyme disease to be recognised by the HSE. I have raised this issue before and I struggle with having to raise it here again because like the public, I feel unheard by the Minister for Health, Deputy Harris. It is time to debate this and ask the Minister why it cannot be recognised by the HSE so that people can get the help they need.
I will also be standing with farmers from Carlow who are here because we cannot deny that 2018 was a special kind of hell for the farmers, with almost biblical weather conditions from one season to the next, frost, snow, rain, floods and drought coupled with cattle prices falling. The livestock farmers are under immense income pressure and they are asking for help. They are seeking delivery of the Irish Farmers Association, IFA, proposal for the introduction of a target €200 suckler payment to save the struggling beef sector. Farmers have been left behind by this Government and they are feeling it more than ever this year.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Is the Senator for real?
Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Fianna Fail)
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Yes, absolutely. Fianna Fáil is calling for a roll-out of a hardship fund to assist farmers in buying feed and fodder and to help them cover mounting overheads. We would like to see a low-cost loan system in place for them. Like three quarters of the farmers in Ireland surveyed recently, we would like to see the €200 payment in the upcoming budget. We cannot let the farmers down again as we have done time and again. I am calling on the Taoiseach to look after the farmers in the budget. Since we have come back here there have been many protests on housing, children with disabilities and people crying for everything. We need to take to the streets because this Government is not delivering.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I call on the Leader to respond.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I thank the 14 Senators for their contributions to the Order of Business. I join Senator Conway-Walsh in expressing our comhbhrón le muintir Molloy as ucht bás Tom Molloy, to sympathise with the Molloy family on the passing of Tom Molloy whom Senator Conway-Walsh eloquently described as a wonderful musician and part of a fantastic family. Our sympathies go to the family on its very sad loss.
Senator Mark Daly raised the issue of the Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI, growth forecast and the budget. The important point for the Senator to recognise is that talks are going on about the budget. This day fortnight it will be revealed. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, is finalising his budget package and is engaging with members of the Senator's party on it. There will be lots of speculation, lots of kite-flying and hyperbole around the budget. It is important to recognise that the ESRI figures acknowledge that the Irish economy is growing and there is a need for a prudent approach to be taken but that there are risks and, as we know and Senators Feighan and Leyden have said, Brexit is the most substantial risk we face. We will have to face it. There is no such thing as a good Brexit. Brexit is bad. The status quowill not remain. There will be profound change, no matter what happens in the final outcome of Brexit because what we have now will not be the way. That will not stop Senator Mark Daly or others from criticising the Government but Brexit is not good and will have a profound impact. Senator Murnane O'Connor can nod her head all she wants. It is the fact whether Fianna Fáil or we or the Labour Party are in government.
Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Fianna Fail)
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I am saying nothing.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Brexit was not caused by this Government. It has been foisted on us and we are going to have to ensure we wear the green jersey.
Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Fianna Fail)
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Exactly. I support that 100%.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The Minister for Finance has been championing prudent policy in the budget. It is what he is known for. Our economy is approaching full employment and it is important not to overheat it and that we learn from what happened in the past. I am sure the Senator will join me in wishing the Minister well regarding the budget.
Senator Mark Daly also raised the issue of organ donation. I know he has a particular interest in and that he is very close to the Irish Kidney Association and that he recalled the Seanad one summer on the matter. I am quite happy to have a debate on organ donation.
Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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A kidney is not for Christmas.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I chaired the Joint Committee on Health and Children which did very comprehensive work on organ donation. Senator Colm Burke was part of that committee. Senator Mark Daly's contribution on organ donation this morning was very one-dimensional. He is going against people such as Professor Jim Egan and Philip Watt of the Cystic Fibrosis Society.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I did not interrupt the Senator.
Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I know but these are facts.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The Senator spoke about Ireland and the world. He should consider the Spanish model and how it has transformed organ donation.
Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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They got rid of presumed consent.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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All parties are in favour of what the Minister for Health is proposing. At the committee I chaired and of which Senator Colm Burke is now a member, Senator Mark Daly's party supported it as well. Let us have a real debate about organ donation.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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It is important to consider what happened as a consequence of the wonderful documentary on Orla Tinsley. There were 5,000 requests for organ donations as a consequence. Organ donation saves lives, it gives people a second chance. If we can improve our status from 15th to 28th in the European Union and improve people's lives and give them a second chance I am in favour of what the Minister proposes. We should engage in a debate on the matter.However, that debate should not be one-sided, which is what we are hearing from some. It is much more than what Senator Mark Daly is presenting this morning.
Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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It is an alternative view-----
Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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-----based on facts and research.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I was generous to Senator Daly when he outlined the issue.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Senators Boyhan and Mark Daly raised the issue of housing. I would be happy to invite the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, and the Minister of State, Deputy Damien English, to the House to address housing and homelessness. I commend the Minister. There is an obligation on Members, when they come into the House, to put forward policies. For once, I agree with Deputy Micheál Martin. The motion tabled in the Dáil yesterday was not going to solve the housing crisis. None of us has a monopoly on empathy or concern. All of us, every day, in our personal lives and political lives, meet and deal with people who are suffering as a result of a lack of housing, whether due to affordability or a lack of social housing, or whether they are elderly people who want to downsize and cannot do so. Members of the House have an obligation, when speaking about housing or any matter, to come here with an alternative policy rather than a cheap soundbite. Let us hear the policies.
Maire Devine (Sinn Fein)
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We have set out the policies but Senator Buttimer ignores them.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Let us hear what they would do.
Maire Devine (Sinn Fein)
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The discussion goes nowhere because the Senator is not prepared to read our policies.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Senator Devine, please.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Let us not base policy on voodoo economics.
Maire Devine (Sinn Fein)
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We have costed our policy more than Fine Gael has.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I cannot allow a debate on the Order of Business.
Maire Devine (Sinn Fein)
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It is costed by the Department of Finance.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Senator Devine, please.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I agree with Senators Boyhan and Conway-Walsh that the Minister of State, Deputy English, needs to come to the House to discuss the pyrite issue, which is a serious concern for many families and homeowners. The Minister of State established the pyrite remediation scheme and Pyrite Resolution Board, which have dealt with more than 1,000 redress requests. I know from reading the report published last year that it will be 2020 before the process slows down. Last year, 945 dwellings were remediated and contracts were being awarded or work was under way in the case of a further 129 properties. Remediation costs approximately €70,000 per house and several local authorities are working actively on the matter. I commend the Minister of State, Deputy English, on the work he has done tackling this matter of great concern.
Senator Conway-Walsh referred to a programme about Frank Stagg broadcast on TG4. People will watch the programme from whatever vantage point they want. I remember the events of the 1970s quite well.
I congratulate Senator Ruane on the publication of her book and on reaching number 1 on the book sales list. I apologise that I was not able to get to the launch. I hear the Senator is a poll topper on the Trinity panel for the next time.
Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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It is the kiss of death again.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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She got many kisses in Trinity on the night of the launch. I witnessed it.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I commend the Senator on her wonderful bravery and eloquence on radio and television. The success of a good book can be judged from the reviews written by those charged with that responsibility. I read a number of reviews and they were extraordinary. It took great courage and much work on the Senator's part to write the book and dedicate time to it. While I do not want to be patronising, I congratulate her and look forward to reading the boot, which is on my reading list. I have to get it signed too.
The Senator raised the precarious case of Sean Binder. I have read the interview with Sean's mother, Fanny. Both he and his mother deny the charges brought against him. The Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Coveney, and the Department are aware of the case and ready to help. There is a complication in that Mr. Binder was born in Germany. It is important that the Department is ready to help and that the matter has been raised in the House today. It is a source of concern that a young man who has engaged in humanitarian work has been wrongly accused, as I believe he has been, having read some of the information. I stand to be corrected on that. It is a matter of extreme importance that we get the matter resolved quickly so that Sean can return home.
Senator Maria Byrne raised the issue of pharmaceutical assistants who work under a licensed pharmacist. It is extraordinary that 248 people are being penalised by recommendations made by the Pharmaceutical Society of Ireland, PSI. Those recommendations are wrong. We should acknowledge that pharmaceutical assistants provide assistance to pharmacists. In many cases, they have vast experience, possibly much more than some of the pharmacists for whom they work. They assist and are a source of relief. They also have a very positive impact on the sector. As Senator Byrne rightly said, this will have a profound impact on the work of pharmacies and chemists in our communities. I hope there will at least be a review of the decision and a stay put on it. I commend Senator Byrne on raising the matter. The Irish Pharmacy Union has been in contact with the Minister, seeking to have the restrictive rules changed. Very strict conditions already apply and I hope these rules will be reversed. I thank members of the Irish Pharmacy Union who have contacted me about the matter.
Senator Leyden raised the issue of the new boundaries for the European Parliament. An independent commission was established, which has produced the report. It would be inappropriate to comment further other than to note that the commission has allocated extra seats to different areas.
Senator McFadden raised the issue of assistant psychologists in Ireland. I agree with her about the role they can play in our mental health system. The Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Jim Daly, has examined the psychology aspect of the child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS, where we have waiting lists. I hope we can allow for a particular and significant role to be played by our assistant psychologists with regard to the matters raised.
Senator Devine raised the issue of public service pay. I note that a number of meetings will be held with different unions today regarding public sector pay. Under this Government, we have seen a restoration of pay to public servants, a reduction in the universal social charge and changes to the financial emergency measures in the public interest, FEMPI, legislation. The report published under the Public Service Pay and Pensions Act will result in further changes. It is important to recognise the need to be measured in our approach to public sector pay. The Senator spoke about the health system. As a public servant for my entire adult life, I understand and appreciate the value of the role played by nurses, doctors and other healthcare assistants and professionals. The important, evidence-based report by the Government allows for further changes and I hope we will see a continuation of those changes in the budget.
Maire Devine (Sinn Fein)
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Recruitment and retention was ignored and dismissed by the Public Service Pay Commission.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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It was addressed by the commission. What was dismissed was that pay was a factor in people deciding whether to join or remain in the health service. We can argue that point. Public sector pay has been increased and we have seen new rates of pay. What we need now is work on how we can entice people to come back or to stay. The Public Service Pay Commission, of which I was not part, concluded that pay was not the issue. Anecdotally, one hears from members of the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation, INMO, and healthcare workers that their workload is too heavy and their hours are too long. Let us have a conversation about how we can make life better for people working in the health service.
Maire Devine (Sinn Fein)
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The report from the Joint Committee on the Future of Mental Health Care states that-----
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I am just making a point. What the Senator is looking for may not be the answer. It may not be about money. If the Senator had a conversation with some people who went abroad and do not intend to return, she may find there is a variety of reasons they will not come home.
Maire Devine (Sinn Fein)
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They dread coming home.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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There is an obligation and duty not to talk down the health system and make it sound as if it is absolutely awful. It is not.I want us to have a health system that functions on behalf of patients and in which staff are rewarded and have good working conditions.
Maire Devine (Sinn Fein)
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I want the Leader's response to contain a measure of honesty and acknowledgement.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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This is the time for the Leader to respond.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Yes. I am not permitted to allow the Senator back in.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Senator Tim Lombard referred to the Tidy Towns competition. I congratulate all of the winners. Listowel was the national winner, while Carrigaline in my area won a gold award. Bishopstown had its points increased. I also congratulate those involved in Ballincollig.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Killarney won in its category.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I am delighted to hear that. It is important to recognise the voluntarism of the many thousands across the country who enhance and improve the public realm and without whom, many towns would be a poorer place in which to live.
Senators Tim Lombard and Kevin Humphreys referred to the public school bus system. Senator Kevin Humphreys is correct that there is a need to look at the catchment areas. I commend Senator Tim Lombard for raising the issues in his area.
The issue of the budget for dementia services as raised by Senator Kevin Humphreys is of great importance. Some 55,000 people suffer from dementia and that number is forecast to increase. Since 2014, the Government has allocated €28 million to deal with the matter, of which €21 million will be utilised, with an additional €3 million for home care packages. However, the points outlined by the Senator about dementia support services, centres of excellence and home care packages are valid. Senator Máire Devine asked for honesty. We must ensure the HSE will examine the delivery of home care packages because it is my experience in advocating on behalf of those seeking such packages that there is a blockage in the system which should be addressed as a priority.
Kevin Humphreys (Labour)
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It is a problem nationwide.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I agree with Senator Paul Daly on the issue of telephone call charges, whether flat-rate calls or otherwise. The issue should be raised as a matter of urgency, perhaps by way of a Commencement catter, and addressed as a priority because the Senator is correct that calls to a variety of service providers often entail inordinate delays. I was recently left on hold for 48 minutes and when I got through-----
Paul Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Was the Leader trying to contact the Taoiseach's office?
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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No, I have no difficulty in that regard. When I got through, I asked to speak to a particular agent and was told that it was a matter for the supervisor. The supervisor came on the line and told me that it was not part of his or her brief. It was nearly an hour before I received any answer and even then I did not receive a complete answer. The point raised by the Senator should be taken up by all Members. I may be old fashioned, but we need a more human interface in customer service rather than selecting option 1, 2 or 3. There should be a willingness to embrace customers who call a helpline or go into an office in search of assistance. The point made by the Senator about the varying cost of calling numbers with certain prefixes should also be addressed.
Paul Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Organisations should be obliged to have a landline number.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I agree fully. To be fair, the Senator is not raising the matter to score a political point but, rather, because it affects everybody, in particular senior citizens, many of whom experience difficulty in that regard.
I commend Senator Frank Feighan for his attendance at the conference of the British Labour Party in Liverpool. I congratulate Mr. Stephen Pound, MP, on his wonderful articulation of the impact of Brexit. I hope there will be an evolution of the approach to Brexit decisions in the United Kingdom as a consequence of the conference.
Senator Colm Burke raised the issue of vacant properties. He is correct that there is a need to prioritise their usage. I hope that will take place.
In her wonderful contribution Senator Jennifer Murnane O'Connor failed to acknowledge the great work being done by the Chairman of the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Pat Deering, in representing farmers. She should reflect on the fact that the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Michael Creed, has been very proactive and vibrant, putting in place different schemes and measures to support and assist farmers-----
Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Fianna Fail)
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I can only deal with the concerns raised with me by farmers. They have told me that the Government is not supporting them, which indicates that the Leader is being contradictory. The farmers of County Carlow have told me that the Government is not supporting them.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is aware that she is not permitted a second bite at the cherry.
Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Fianna Fail)
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I am just replying to the Leader who is contradicting himself.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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That does not matter; it is his response, for which I am not responsible-----
Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Fianna Fail)
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It is not a true response.
Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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------or the contributions of the Senator.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I am surprised that Senator Jennifer Murnane O'Connor did not blame the Minister for the rain, snow, storms and sunshine, but, thankfully, she did not. However, I accept her point about the plight of those suffering from Lyme disease. When I was Chairman of the Joint Committee on Health, we did a piece of work on the disease. Senator Colm Burke is a member of the current committee which held hearings on the issue last year. It is a source of huge concern. Lyme disease is a very debilitating illness which affects people profoundly. I hope the HSE can work with local pharmacists, GPs and advocacy groups to ensure we will have a proper plan in place for the disease because while there are differing opinions on the matter, we should unite to support those affected, whether the disease is caused by a tick or otherwise. I share the Senator's concerns about the issue.