Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Sinn Fein)
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With the Leas-Chathaoirleach's assistance, my colleague, Senator Conway-Walsh, will take the supplementary question because, obviously, it pertains to Donegal and Mayo. Is that agreeable?

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Senator Mac Lochlainn is starting but the brief supplementary will come from Senator Conway-Walsh?

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Sinn Fein)
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Yes. Is that okay?

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Perfect.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Sinn Fein)
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I appreciate that. The Minister of State is very familiar with this issue. I know he has visited Donegal a number of times and met affected families. He knows it very well at this stage. Even though it had limited terms of reference, the expert panel report, which was published almost four months ago, clearly demonstrated that there was a profound failure in State oversight of the manufacturing of concrete blocks. There was also a failure in building control regulations. Looking at the eight recommendations, it can be seen that they clearly point to a failure in State oversight. What does that mean? According to this report, and based on my own evidence in Donegal, it means that thousands of families in Donegal were profoundly failed by the State. The biggest investment a family will make is, of course, the purchase and securing of the family home through a mortgage or loan. It is a huge investment. They have been left not just with unsafe homes but also with this financial distress. It is deeply distressing for the families. This expert panel report was delayed by one year. This is another year of distress, worry and not knowing what is going to happen. We are now a further four months down the line. All I am asking for is that the families affected in Donegal and Mayo receive the same support from this State as did families in Dublin and north Leinster who were affected by pyrite. We are just asking for equality of treatment and equality of support from the State.

There is no more time for dragging heels. The Minister of State knows what needs to be done. We need a redress scheme in order that families can make their homes safe. I have spoken to families in Donegal who are worried that the bison concrete slabs between their floors could come down on top of them. They are worried that their gable could collapse. The Minister has heard these stories as well. We must do something about this. There must be financial supports for families who are already paying a mortgage. They have seen their houses devalued profoundly, so in the vast majority of cases they do not have the financial capacity to do it themselves.

The State needs to step up here. It failed in its responsibilities. The concrete block is the core component of the family home in Ireland. Not ensuring those blocks were manufactured to a proper safe standard and that building control measures were right and proper was a huge failure. It is a collective failure of our State and we need see collective responsibility being taken. Now, four months after the publication of this report, I urge the Minister of State, please, to put in place a redress scheme for the families in Donegal and Mayo who desperately need the Government's help.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I thank both Senators for raising this important issue. It is one that affects many people and one that has been raised weekly by colleagues from all parties. I reiterate that it is important we all realise it is an issue on which we must all work together to resolve as best we can.

I acknowledge the very difficult and distressing situation that certain home owners in Donegal and Mayo face on account of damage to the structural integrity of their homes. I have seen some of these damaged homes first-hand and have met home owners in both Donegal and Mayo and understand what they are going through. The will is there to try to help people through this difficult phase.

I understand clearly the difficulties they face. I firmly believe the parties responsible for poor workmanship and the supply of defective materials should face up to their responsibilities and take appropriate actions to provide remedies to affected home owners. The Senators may reread the report and see what it says exactly because it does refer to defective materials. That is the root cause of this problem. The expert panel on concrete blocks was established by my Department in April 2016 to investigate problems that have emerged in the concrete block work of certain dwellings in counties Donegal and Mayo. I will not go through the panel's terms of reference again but it was about trying to establish the number of houses in question. We now know roughly the breakdown in Mayo and Donegal. Much good work has been done in gathering that information by the different action groups and sharing it with the expert panel. I ask people to continue to do that and to identify themselves if they have properties in which they believe mica or pyrite is present, because that helps us formulate our plans. A major part of the work of the expert panel and the reason it took time was to work out a process on how best to address these houses and remedy the problems, including the technical solutions involved, which is the key part. Most of the residents who have engaged with it understand the process. We are all annoyed that it took longer than we had hoped, but we understand the processes we had to go through. The Senator referred to other schemes, and similarly there were formulas used there.

I received the report of the expert panel in June 2017. It is comprehensive and addresses all areas of the terms of reference. On 13 June 2017, I published the report. It has eight recommendations. My Department has already taken action to implement recommendations 1 and 2 as priorities. Having spoken to the residents of affected houses, they understand the process and that recommendations 1 and 2 are key to their situation. The others apply more to the future but are not the main issues for the residents currently affected. We had to prioritise recommendations 1 and 2, so that is what we are doing.

With regard to recommendation 1, the testing and categorisation protocol, the National Standards Authority of Ireland, NSAI, technical committee, established to scope and fast-track the development of a standardised protocol, held its inaugural meeting on 11 September 2017 and has scheduled several further meetings for the coming weeks. I am pleased to hear its work is progressing well.

With regard to recommendation 2, the competent professional oversight, my Department has been in contact with Engineers Ireland about the establishment of a register of competent engineers for home owners' or affected parties’ reference. Engineers Ireland provided assurance that it will collaborate with the Department, the NSAI and others on measures to establish such a register.

On 19 July 2017, I visited Donegal and met key stakeholders. Many public representatives from all parties attended that meeting. I met affected home owners and members of groups working with them and other interested parties. We discussed the publication of the report and its recommendations. I explained the importance for me as a Minister in this area of the priority in implementing recommendations 1 and 2. Regardless of how these solutions will be funded or who will step up, and I referred from the start to the many stakeholders involved in this, we must establish the protocols to do this properly. That is the number one issue. The residents understood that, as did the local councillors. We are doing this as quickly as possible. I also visited Mayo some weeks later and had similar discussions with stakeholders there and urged all the various groups to come forward with their plans in order that we can identify the numbers.

I fully appreciate and understand the urgency of this matter. I understand that some people have suffered a lot in recent years and that they want solutions, but I want to be clear that as a Department, we are on this matter. We are implementing recommendations 1 and 2 and will then consider how best we can drive this on and solve the matter. The first thing is to identify the technical solutions and the process. I cannot emphasise this enough. I will not jeopardise this by making a commitment that they will be finished in a week when it will take a few months but the expert panel is there from the NSAI and there are good people with experience on this matter dealing with it. I am happy we will move this on quite soon.

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Senator Conway-Walsh has one minute in which to ask a brief supplementary question.

Rose Conway Walsh (Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister of State for coming to Mayo. I speak on behalf of the action group there. I was very disappointed, as was the action group, that I was not invited to attend that meeting and was excluded from it. As the Minister of State knows, I and Senator Mac Lochlainn have been working on this matter for several years. However, it is not about us. It is about the home owners.

Did the Minister of State ask the Minister for Finance for a line in the budget to provide for these homes? I fully understand that the Minister of State cannot yet quantify the amount that may be necessary, but while he says the home owners understand the delays, they do not. What they do understand is that if the Minister of State has requested a line in the budget to provide for the homes affected by pyrite, they do not expect him to have a whole figure. That said, they want a gesture of an amount that would show his and the Government's solid intention to address this in an equitable way, as it was on the eastern side of the country.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I recognise the involvement of many people across all parties and at all levels of public representation, at local level and council level. I am surprised that Senator Conway-Walsh was not at the meeting. I do not know why she was not invited. Her Sinn Féin colleague was there so there is no issue of that. She would have been very welcome there because it was cross-party, which we proved in Donegal. I am not making this issue political. I want it resolved and am committed to doing that.

I disagree with the Senator that people do not understand. The home owners I met who are affected by this understand that I have to go through a process. I explained to them that if I do not follow that process indicated in the recommendations, it could jeopardise any funding to resolve the matter. There has to be a logical way to address this with technical solutions, and then the money can be put behind it. I will repeat what I said again. There are many stakeholders involved in the process. There were defective materials and the matter needs to be addressed. My job is to ensure we find a solution for the residents. That is my commitment and I will continue to work towards that.

Rose Conway Walsh (Sinn Fein)
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Will the Minister of State guarantee -----

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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I cannot allow the Senator again under the rules.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Sinn Fein)
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When the report was published-----

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Unfortunately, I am not allowed to let Senator Mac Lochlainn in again under the rules, I am sorry.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Sinn Fein)
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There was a very different -----

Paul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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We are moving on. I thank the Minister of State and the Senators. I see the Minister of State, Deputy John Paul Phelan, is present. We will take the item to which he is responding next as the Minister of State, Deputy Jim Daly, is not here yet.