Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire. This matter relates to the current state of play with the entrenchment regarding the junior certificate and the fact that 350,000 children and 27,000 teachers have already had two days at home. It is a desperate situation. It is not just the students doing junior certificate this year who are suffering, but students in every year. The mock junior and leaving certificate examinations start in my local school next week and I understand another day of industrial action is threatened for March.

Will the Minister outline the appeals process and safeguards for students under the new proposed teacher assessment model for junior certificate in the event of a grade dispute? Parents and students have a genuine fear that if a child's teacher for a subject does not like the child, the child could get a poor grade.

What can be done to reassure parents and students in the event of a grade dispute?

I am conscious of the fact that this is a huge sea change for teachers culturally. All assessment for State exams has been done externally up until now, so this is a massive sea change. I recently spoke to a design and computer graphics, DCG, teacher about portfolio work accounting for 40% of that subject at leaving certificate level. With 50 students, it would take him 100 hours to correct those and to do them justice. There are genuine questions about where this time would come from. It would probably take about three working weeks at a minimum. Has the Minister considered a stipend towards that work? I believe it is such a good reform that it is worth introducing it and finding a middle ground on this, although many teachers disagree with me. Some parents are on the side of teachers while others would agree with what I am saying.

Will the Minister clarify a number of issues? Is it correct to say that the new model of assessment proposes 60% external assessment and 40% teacher assessment, with a State audit of 15% of the scripts assessed by the teachers? If correct, that represents considerable State oversight. It is just the tip of the iceberg for teacher assessment when compared with the 100% assessment carried out in other countries. I understand that there will also be a moderation process whereby teachers will be shown how to assess scripts so that objectivity is built in. Can the Minister verify that, please?

I understand that some parents, teachers and students are deeply concerned about the subjective element of the teacher-pupil relationship and how it might impact, positively or negatively, on the grade allocated by the teacher. I met a teacher with 15 to 20 years experience recently who told me that she sits in fear at parent-teacher meetings of parents challenging her about why their child did not get a higher grade or did not make it on to a team and so forth. That is a concern because teachers, as professionals, must be able to stand on their professionalism and point to assessment criteria - through which marking is done - that can stand up to scrutiny. In the event of a grade dispute, what appeals process will be in place?

I spoke to Pasi Sahlberg when he was in Ireland recently. In Finland there is 100% teacher assessment and the teachers there fought to have that. It is not unusual, however, as such a system also operates in many other countries. In the event of a grade dispute in Finland, a third party is brought in and if there is a difference of 2% between the initial grade and the second opinion, another opinion is sought. That type of assurance needs to be put out there but has not been spoken about here at all. I have read a good deal on this subject but have not heard anything about the concerns of people in this regard.

There was a conference in Galway recently on reforming learning. I was struck by the views expressed by students, educators, health practitioners, parents, entrepreneurs and policy-makers present on the need to reform learning to help students to become more independent learners. One of the prongs of that would be the maturity that would emerge from teachers and students having a conversation about work and grades. Students could ask what the teachers are looking for and what they have to do to achieve the teachers' objectives. It would be nice to see that level of maturity come into second level education. I corrected scripts from 17 to 20 year old students at Mary Immaculate College. Those students were not much older than second level students-----

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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The Senator is way over time. I must call the Minister.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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What can the Minister do to reach out to teachers and assure parents and students that the process will be objective?

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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I thank Senator Healy Eames for raising this issue. She has a strong interest in this area and is strongly supportive of reform. In terms of an update, the talks are adjourned but are ongoing.

In November 2014 I announced compromise proposals for junior cycle reform, with 60% of the final exams in third year to be set and marked by the State Examination Commission and a State certificate to be issued to every student on completion of the junior cycle.

A total of 40% of junior cycle marks will be awarded for project or portfolio work during second and third year. This 40% will be assessed by classroom teachers. The State Examinations Commission, SEC, will check 10% to 15% of these marks to ensure consistency and fairness. The current appeals process will remain in place for the final examinations, which represent 60% of the marks. Under this process, at junior certificate, appeal applications must be made by the school authority on the candidate's behalf, as the school authority must confirm to the SEC that the grade achieved is at variance with the grade expected. Under appeal, an appeal examiner, who was not involved in marking the work initially, will completely re-mark the candidate's work, question by question, in accordance with the original marking scheme. Quality assurance measures are in place at each stage of the appeal process to ensure the marking scheme is applied fairly to the work of each candidate. If a candidate is still dissatisfied after the appeals marking has concluded, he or she has recourse to a review by the Ombudsman for Children.

School-based assessment for certification will normally be worth 40%, and teachers will initially grade their students' work. There will then be internal moderation in schools between teachers of the same subject. The assessment and moderation toolkit of the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment, NCCA, will provide clear guidance in this respect. Following internal moderation, there will also be external moderation of all schools for all subjects by the SEC. Every school will have moderation in all subjects. This will entail rigorous checking by the SEC of a portion of the marks to ensure consistency and fairness. The internal moderation and external processes will be clearly set out in the NCCA's assessment and moderation toolkit, and in the continuing professional development, CPD, programme of Junior Cycle for Teachers, JCT. The internal and external moderation, along with resources in the assessment and moderation toolkit, will provide checks and balances for transparency and fairness.

For the school-based component, the appeals process has been and will continue to be part of discussions with the education partners, including teacher unions. The JCT will address this as part of its CPD programme. It is expected that the JCT will provide CPD on moderation, to include appeals on school-based assessment. It plans to begin with CPD on assessment, followed by a CPD programme on moderation, to include appeals. It is so important that teachers are able to attend their CPD as soon as possible. We have no plans to pay a stipend to teachers to carry out the assessment role. I am aware that the Senator also put forward a case for this.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I am pleased to hear the level at which moderation will take place. The Minister stated that following internal moderation there would also be external moderation of all schools for all subjects by the State Examinations Commission. Will the Minister explain how this will happen? How much of this detail is understood by the teachers and the unions? I mean this respectfully. I am very concerned about the teachers, because they are the professionals. Many of them have assured me that this is their single issue, and it is not about going into other areas. Where is the hope?

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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The Senator knows there have been long days of discussion between officials and teaching unions, chaired by Dr. Pauric Travers. Much of this detail was available beforehand. I have not attended the most recent part of the talks, but the information is available for clarification. Moderation will apply to all schools on all subjects. There will not be any one subject in any one school which does not have at least one paper, portfolio or project checked.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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What about the audit of 12% to 15% of papers?

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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It will be part of the 15%. We will ensure it goes into all schools in all subjects. This is to assure people that it will not be a system under which five papers will be checked in one school and none in another in a particular subject. It is to ensure people know there will be moderation and checking to ensure processes are fair. Continuous professional development is a very important part of this because it is about giving teachers the knowledge, resources and tools to ensure they are being fair to their students.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Will Minister comment on hope?

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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The hope is that the talks are still ongoing. We hope they will be successful.