Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn, and invite him to address the House.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach for the opportunity to address the Seanad on this important issue.

As Senators know, the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment, NCCA, was asked to undertake a review of the junior cycle curriculum in schools, to examine how creativity and innovation might be strengthened and curriculum overload and rote learning addressed. The review was undertaken against a backdrop of extensive longitudinal research, commissioned by the NCCA and undertaken by the ESRI. This research tracked the progress of some 900 students in 12 case study schools as they transferred from primary level and progressed through each year of junior cycle and senior cycle. For those Senators who have plenty of time on their hands, this is a fascinating read and I strongly recommend it. Hero teachers in first year become villain teachers in sixth year because they are not teaching to the points and to the examinations.

The study identified that while the vast majority of students generally coped well in school there was a significant undercurrent of dissatisfaction for some students, particularly those trapped in what are described as low ability groupings, who become increasingly disengaged from learning. By year 3 of junior cycle, students indicated that they were stressed, with many sitting ten to 15 subjects in the examinations, and experiencing the examination as exerting a significant negative backwash effect on teaching and learning.

The research has been particularly insightful in providing for a strong student voice in this debate. In addition, a study on national testing of pupils in Europe was published in 2009, and the Educational Research Centre completed a study, published in 2010, on standardised testing in lower secondary education. The famous PISA 2009 study also provided insights into the review, with Ireland showing a significant decline in standards in literacy and mathematics, but not in science.

Concerns have also been highlighted by higher education and industry interests, indicating that students are not acquiring the skills they need to become autonomous learners and cope with the demands of the knowledge society. Frankly, all the evidence is pointing to a need for change.

In February 2010, the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment published a discussion paper, Innovation and Identity: Ideas for a New Junior Cycle, to initiate a major process of public consultation on the future direction of reform. The consultations included a national symposium, an online questionnaire, a blog, meetings with a wide range of interests, including educationalists, industry personnel, parents and students, and 40 written submissions. The recommendations submitted to me by the council build on this research and consultation and on extensive discussions with the education partners through the council's consultative structures. I would like to record my appreciation for the council's innovative and professional work in developing these proposals, which I endorsed recently. I have asked my officials to begin discussions on implementing the proposals with the education partners, so that the necessary planning and development work can take place.

Senators who are interested in examining the detail of the proposals can find them on the website of the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment, ncca.ie. They are also being circulated to the House, together with a short summary. I understand they have been e-mailed to Senators and can be downloaded by those who are interested in them. The proposals envisage that the existing range of 25 subjects in the junior cycle will be continued. The length of syllabuses will be reduced to 200 hours for most subjects and to 240 hours for the core subjects of Irish, English and mathematics. The option of offering additional short courses of 100 hours' duration will be open to schools. This would provide for school-based innovation and increased flexibility. A cap of eight subjects - or seven subjects and two short courses, or six subjects and four short courses - will apply to what can be studied for qualification purposes. I will come back to this later in my speech. In essence, we intend to impose a cap of eight on the number of subjects that can be studied to examination level. This limit is being proposed for good reasons. It will make time and space for active learning, embed key skills such as literacy and numeracy and put the focus on learning rather than on examinations.

Six key skills - managing myself, staying well, communications, being creative, working with others, and managing information and thinking - will be embedded in all subjects. Subjects will be assessed by means of a written examination set and marked by the State Examinations Commission and by means of a portfolio. The portfolio will be marked by the class teachers in the school, moderated by the school and subject to external moderation on a sample basis by the State Examinations Commission. Detailed arrangements for school and external moderation are being discussed with the commission. In general, the portfolio will attract 40% of marks and the written examination will attract 60% of marks, although that may vary by subject. Short courses will be assessed by means of a portfolio and will be subject to internal moderation by the school. The term "portfolio" may include practical tests or events such as school musicals in a short course context, as well as project or portfolio work. It will depend on the area of learning. I stress that all of this work will happen within the school space. It will not be done at home and brought into school. It will be possible to verify that it was done by the student in question.

The subject reforms will begin on a phased basis in 2014 ahead of the first examination in 2017. English will be the first subject to be implemented, in keeping with the priorities in the national literacy and numeracy strategy. Groups of subjects will be implemented thereafter on a phased basis. Change will be implemented at a pace which the system can sustain. I will come back to that if Senators want to explore what I mean by it. Report card templates will be developed by National Council for Curriculum and Assessment for reporting to parents on the progress of students. These will be available in 2012-13 for use by schools in 2013-14. As Members may be aware, the literacy and numeracy strategy provides for standardised testingin English and mathematics to be introduced in the second year of junior cycle as well as two assessments in primary. A review of the new forms of assessment will be completed by 2019 in order to inform the ongoing roll-out.

The NCCA has also proposed that there will be an additional award at level 2 of the National Framework of Qualifications for those students with special needs who find the level 3 programme unsuitable. This award will be based on five priority learning units - communicating and literacy, numeracy, looking after myself, living in a community, and preparing for work. Specifications will be developed by the NCCA. Assessment will be by means of a portfolio, with internal moderation by the school, and sample external moderation by the awards body.

The new Qualifications and Quality Authority of Ireland, Second Stage of the Bill having being passed by this House, has indicated a willingness in principle to certify at this level. FETAC already certifies a wide range of awards at levels 1 to 6 in the framework, including for special needs.

The proposals, therefore, are designed to provide a momentum for real change in the classroom. They balance bottom-up innovation through short courses, which can account for up to 25% of the award, with nationally set standards for subjects, a strong focus on student learning, a key shift in assessment towards more flexibility, and a greater role on the part of the class teacher. I believe that the proposals put forward by the council are designed to address the concerns already highlighted. I assure the Members, however, that much of the detail remains to be worked out and it is particularly important that we ensure the reforms address the needs of those who are currently least served by the system.

On assessment, I welcome the emphasis on the dialogue between student and teacher in the learning process, and the increased role of the class teacher both in assessment oflearning and assessment forlearning. I must stress that unless the examination changes, nothing else will. It is key to this process. That is reason I am determined that assessment reform must be an integral part of the reforms if we are to make real change in teaching and learning and, critically, in the student experience.

I fully accept the need for a deliberate approach to the issue of measuring learning. The new proposals strike a balance in this regard. There has been considerable concern in recent years about rote learning, and the examination system has been widely criticised as focusing on recall rather than on other critical skills. The assessment reforms in the junior certificate must be designed to address these issues, with students being asked to demonstrate their understanding and competences.

However, assessment alone cannot address this issue. It will take a concerted effort from all involved in education and a changed mindset across the community to ensure that the proposed reforms have the desired effects. We must think of students' futures and their capacity to be able to apply their learning in various contexts throughout their entire lives, rather than learning things off by heart for an examination. Short-term recall without real understanding will ill-serve their future needs and the needs of our society.

Great care will also need to be taken to ensure that the portfolio work is designed to promote important key skills and innovation, and that the learning objectives are not defeated by an overly formulaic or rehearsed approach. I am aware of the concerns highlighted regarding teachers being advocates for their students, and the changed relationship which would occur were they to adopt a formal assessment role for qualifications purposes. Teachers have an advocacy role but they also have a professional assessment role which is a normal part of the teaching and learning process. The tensions inherent in these roles are grappled with by teachers throughout the European Union, and entirely externally based assessment in lower secondary education context is a rarity.

I am also aware the history and geography teachers have expressed some disquiet about their subjects under the new dispensation but it is worth noting that geographical and historical awareness skills have been included in the 24 statements of essential learning, that is, that these skills will be required in order to achieve the required outcomes. Good and enthusiastic teachers in history and geography have the opportunity to inspire a real interest in their subject and so ensure that pupils will want to sit the examination. Overall, I am in favour of leaving the decisions on what is offered at the discretion of the school, and of students having as broad a range of options to choose from as possible.

I welcome the level 2 award proposed for those students with special needs for whom level 3 may not be suitable. While I am aware of the extensive guidelines for teachers which have been developed by the NCCA on how best to mediate the curriculum for students with special needs, the new level 2 award will address a particular gap in the system. The priority learning units within it are designed to support many students in their pathway towards independent living.

I want to stress that teachers and schools will be supported in making these changes by investment in professional development, particularly in the new roles of assessment and moderation. I am aware that the changes will not be easy and that we will face many challenges along the way, but we must recognise the need for change and the opportunities it will present for a more stimulating learning experience for our students.

I take this opportunity to thank the staff and the board of the NCCA, and those involved in its various committees, for their contribution to these ground breaking proposals. They have put learners and their needs centre stage in their deliberations.

This radically different examination needs a new name. For that reason, I have asked those directly concerned to give suggestions for a new name. I have formally written to the Irish Secondary Schools Union to consult with its members and to suggest a new name by the middle of December. I look forward to beginning the dialogue and development work with the partners in education to implement the reforms. I thank the House for the opportunity to debate them.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Thank you. I call on Senator Power, who has eight minutes.

Averil Power (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister to the House and I thank him for his opening remarks. Fianna Fáil welcomes the proposals published by the NCAA. We appreciate that it has been the culmination of much work, both by NCAA staff under the direction of Anne Looney and by the consultative board led by Tom Collins. I also appreciate that these proposals represent just one part of work being carried out on the junior cycle, senior cycle and the issue of entry into third level, and that this has to be seen in the context of the continuum of second level education and the entry process for higher education.

There is no doubt that change is needed at all levels if we are to move the focus of our second level education away from an excessive emphasis on rote learning and towards the acquisition of key skills, the kind of skills that people will need for the jobs of the future, as well as life skills. These skills include critical thinking, problem solving and communication skills. To be effective, change must involve both curricula and exams. We have changed the curricula in different courses over the years, but we never fundamentally changed the examinations. As a result, we have not had success. We can tinker as much as we like with the curriculum, but as the Minister pointed out on other occasions in the House, there is always a pressure on teachers to teach to the test, even when it goes against their best professional interests. Pressure is put on them by students and parents to get the best test results, even if that flies in the face of what is the best education for the young people involved. There is no doubt we need change across the entire second level programme but it is right to start at junior certificate level, because the stakes at leaving certificate level are obviously much higher.

I welcome the move away from measuring everything in one examination at the end of third year. The 40:60 balance between examinations and school-based work is appropriate. Teachers are the best judges of students' standards and abilities. With proper training and support, they should be in a position to assess their students' work without leading to a distortion of the traditional student-teacher relationship. The class teacher is the one person who has an opportunity to observe his or her students over a sustained period of time, performing a range of different tasks, including essays and demonstrating team work and so on. Unlike the external examiner who can only deal with the paper before him or her, which is an attempt by a student on one particular day in a few short hours, the teacher can make a judgment over the student's real ability as demonstrated to that teacher over the full cycle. I fully appreciate that teachers have concerns and that parents, particularly in small towns, will put pressure on them to give students good results. However, we can and must educate parents and students on how doing that might serve some short-term goal but, in the long term, it is against their best interests.

This issue is not dealing with the leaving certificate and it will not determine someone's entire future and what course they take. The group certificate and intermediate certificate exams midway through second level used to be the final exam for most students and was their passport into the world of work. Therefore, there was significant pressure surrounding them. However, for most students this is now just an opportunity to get feedback halfway through the cycle as to how they are getting on, get guidance on areas in which they are good and skills that they should be looking to develop in the senior cycle.

I understand the concerns which have been expressed as this constitutes very significant change. As the Minister said, a fully externally accessed examination system is unique in international terms. However, it is what we are used to. People need to have confidence in the education system because it is so important. It is difficult to bring people along with such a significant change. Students are concerned and teachers and parents want their students to do the best. It is important to inspire confidence and I appreciate the concerns. However, with the right supports those concerns can be addressed.

The Minister has aluded in some of the commentary in the newspapers in recent weeks to a possible role for IT, not just in the external modulation but perhaps in the small town environment. The Minister might respond on that. I am not sure if that was what the Minister meant but there was a remark made about the use of online systems for marking papers.

Teacher education is so important as the Minister will be aware. As I understand it, assessment is not a major component of the training programmes at pre-service stage. I am not sure if much has been done on this in terms of in-service training. There has been a move over the last few years to try to move to assesment for learning but I am not sure if it is at the stage we need in order to make changes as significant as those we are proposing. There will be a need for in-service training and for resources to be provided for it. I hope the Minister will give us an idea of his thinking on this and whether it has been costed and if the resources are available. For this to work we have to be confident that the training will be there in good time. I understand that work is being done on restructuring pre-service training for primary and post-primary teachers. This is long overdue and I hope that assessment for learning will be a key part of that process.

I welcome the proposal on short courses. This is an exciting opportunity for students to develop a wide range of skills and talents in areas such as drama, music, ICT, and skills of relevance to the local economy, such as fishing, agriculture or other industries. It also provides a great opportunity to recognise the role of programmes like young social entrpreneurs, community involvement and so on, which should be as equally valuable as a student's achievements in particular subjects. There is great scope in this regard and I am confident that many partners, such as IT companies, would be interested in working with the Department to progress this issue.

Flexibility is positive but it is important that we ensure the necessary quality is present. The Minister will be aware from reviews of transition year that some schools do an amazing job, but in others the students do not get a very positive experience. Some programmes are being developed nationally by the NCCA. It is important that the programmes developed by schools are validated by a national body so we can be confident of their quality.

I support the cap on the number of subjects for examination purposes and I do not necessarily believe that everything should be assessed, provided the range of subjects are genuinely on offer. In his opening remarks, the Minister stated the subjects would be available but there have been reports in recent days about alarming cutbacks in the number of second level teachers. Theory is one thing but if the teachers are not available the schools will be simply unable to offer the subjects and we run the risk of making it impossible for schools to provide the subjects we claim students can study and we run the risk of jeopardising the success of the excellent proposals under discussion today.

I hope the Minister will take on board the call I am making today for science to be made compulsory. I appreciate that the Minister has every subject teacher group in the country, including history and geography teachers and every one else, suggesting that their subject is the most important but there is no doubt that awareness of scientific issues is central to achieving the targets set out in the Strategy for Science, Technology and Innovation 2006-2013 and the national skills strategy. I appreciate that 87% of students are taking science in the junior certificate cycle at the moment but I believe strongly that everyone should get the opportunity at least to experiment with it at the start and then decide whether they wish to take it on in the senior cycle. I highlight the need for information and communications technology to be better across all areas although I am aware it is in the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment, NCCA, document. Resources and training will be key issues in this regard.

Fianna Fáil supports the document and we realise a good deal of extra work has been done on it. We have concerns with some areas but with the right implementation plan it can be done. I am keen to see a detailed implementation plan as soon as possible with resources earmarked and set aside genuinely so that they will not be subject to cuts in the budget next year or the year after. This is necessary so that those in the system can have confidence that the Government is serious about seeing this through and ensuring it can be effective.

Jim D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
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I wish to speak for five minutes and to share my time with Senator Healy Eames by agreement. Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire go dtí an Teach. The Minister is very good at coming here. The National Council for Curriculum and Assessment commissioned the educational policy research centre of the Economic and Social Research Institute to carry out a study of student experiences of the curriculum in the first three years of their post-primary schooling. The report was produced in September 2007.

Among the first and second year findings, students reported that they learned best when teachers explained things clearly, had a clear grasp of the subject, made learning fun and encouraged students to express their opinion in class. It was noted that a didactic form of teaching or teaching from the book was viewed by students as less helpful to their learning. The process of keeping students interested and focused on learning was helped by the use of a variety of teaching methods such as video and audio resources, group work and class discussions. Students reported that such methods were used less frequently by teachers in third year.

When asked their opinion about what would be helpful to them, students commented that it was hard to concentrate if all they do is read from the book. A student from a girl's school with mixed ability said it was good to do a little of everything, suggesting that if they did a little light tape work and then some writing it would be better than doing the same stuff every day. She explained that some teachers do the same stuff every day and that this gets boring. She further explained that if the class is boring one cannot concentrate, regardless of how much one wishes to take it in and her view was that if a class was boring the learning would not stay in a student's head. She explained that in such cases one wishes for the class to end, one wonders what time it is and one simply wishes to get out of the class because it is so boring. It is not what is being said by the students that matters but what they hear.

I welcome the Minister's ambition to reform the curriculum because many reforms have been tried during the years and sometimes the cure has been worse than the disease.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I wish to share time.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister to the House. I welcome the broad thrust of this document. Based on my experience at school level and third level from being a teacher and educator, it is hard to believe this will happen but it is possible with the right will and determination. I feel confident it is part of the ethos of the Minister to make sure change will take place.

Creativity and innovation are critical. Our new President-elect, Michael D. Higgins, is the hallmark for creativity and it is his watchword. If ever we needed it to be released in our people it is now but it must start in the education system. The Minister is correct; nothing changes unless the exam does.

I have a number of very quick questions. I am concerned about level II and level III. I understand level III is broadly the same as the current junior certificate programme, which is fine. I understand level II is for special needs children. I have worked extensively with thousands of children in this country at second level on a private basis for which I was paid.

One group is missing. Special needs children probably comprise 5% to 10% of the population at most. The current curriculum probably suits about 70% of children. Therefore, about 20% of children are in between special needs children and children whom the current curriculum suits. Such children are streetwise and bright but not motivated or supported by family. The Minister knows who they are; they are the children who drop out early from school.

They are not stupid but they lost interest in learning a long time ago. There is a mechanism in the new system to suit such children, in terms of the combination of short and long courses, but study time during the day where children are shown how to study must be built in. One short course available should be learning how to learn. Homework support is also important because such children are not getting it at home. Let us not pretend we can change all homes because we cannot. While the proposal is for eight subjects in total, for that middle group there may be a requirement for a combination of perhaps five or six subjects. We must let students choose those subjects, but with in-school study and home support.

The next question we must consider is who will have the freedom to design the short courses. Will it be schools, outside providers or, in some cases, very bright students? I am concerned about the date of commencement of the new curriculum in that I hoped it would be sooner. For a child entering junior certificate year in 2014, for instance, will he or she have the option to avail of the new system or will it not be introduced until 2017?

Will the Minister consider introducing an intranet which would allow for online communication between schools and homes, whereby parents can access homework assignments, teachers' notes and other learning resources? That facility is available in various countries internationally and is working well. I hope there is a buy-in from all teachers. I urge caution in regard to the reduction of 2,000 in teacher numbers, 1,000 of which will be at second level. There could be a tipping point where we go too far. I look forward to the Minister's comments on these points.

Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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I propose to share time with Senator Fiach Mac Conghail.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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I am delighted to welcome the Minister to the House. His Ministry is the most important, because without education we will make no progress. Last week I had a lengthy meeting with the president of DCU's students union in the course of which we discussed education, research, the way forward, teaching, fees and so on. Although we are talking about reform of the second level junior cycle today, rather then third level, I would contend that there is no difference. Education is right and good where it is about developing understanding. Knowledge and understanding are the same to a nine year old as they are to a 19 year old. The only difference is in the type of knowledge we present to them and where and how we present it. For the nine year old in primary school and the 19 year old in the hallowed halls of university, knowledge remains the same. We merely present it in a different way depending on the student's age.

Definitions of education are difficult, because education is about what happens from birth to death; it is a continuing process. If I were to sum it up in one word, it would be "energy". Most of what we do is about energy, how we harness that energy and what we do with it. Any discussion about education is essentially a discussion about human energy. Education is the unique pursuit of that individual energy in people. The job of education is to counteract inertia, torpor and apathy. The question is how one brings it about, the ways and means which allow, as Whitehead said, young people to learn to look up and look out. How to ignite that energy is the question. In the ever changing world in which we live, the question we face is how does education parallel that world, contend with it, counteract it and make it come alive. We may then ask whether mathematics, Mandarin Chinese or history is the answer. They are all the answer but also not the answer. The true answer is creativity and the real question is how can we define, capture, explore, develop and extract this great creativity and which disciplines of knowledge will allow us to do so.

My first suggestion is that the Minister make the arts - by which I refer to drama, music, poetry and visual arts - compulsory subjects within the new junior certificate cycle. It is the perfect opportunity to make the arts independent, with the same status, discipline, structure and profundity of knowledge that we give to mathematics and literature in the school curriculum. Second, having spent 22 years working in the department of communications in DCU, I am aware that orality, oracy and vocality - the ability to express the human instrument that is voice - are tantamount to education.

I know it is mentioned in the literacy and numeracy report, but orality, oracy and vocality could be the key to the combinations of knowledge. This is not just fresh learning, but fresh combinations of knowledge. It is a unique opportunity to make this an important, independent vocality and an important, independent subject. We are suffering from a glut of information. There is no such thing as information scarcity, yet it is not lack of information that keeps us at war, keeps people starving or keeps crime rates high.

George Bernard Shaw said 50 years ago that:

The average person today is about as credulous as was the average person in the Middle Ages. In the Middle Ages, people believed in the authority of their religion, no matter what. Today, we believe in the authority of our science, no matter what." We can counteract that in the new junior cycle with the idea of the arts. Seamus Heaney said "Bear with the present; what will be will be. The future is cloth waiting to be cut.

That is a template we might be able to use. I stand for the arts as counteracting torpor, lethargy, apathy and as counteracting the information glut that tends to take over our education system.

Fiach MacConghail (Independent)
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Cuirim fáilte roimh an t-Aire chuig an Seanad agus gabhaim comhghairdeas arís dó as ucht an obair ar fad atá déanta aige san am gairid mar Aire. I applaud the Minister's enthusiasm and his advocacy for change in the junior certificate in particular. I love the quote that unless the examination changes, nothing else will. I believe this is his first contribution in these Houses on the reform of the junior cycle, and there is a feeling that he is open to consultation and other suggestions, which I welcome. I also applaud Dr. Anne Looney and Professor Tom Collins for their innovation.

What intention does the Minister have to place the arts at the heart of learning? Unlike Senator O'Donnell, I am not necessarily looking for compulsory courses, but I do think this is a time for innovation and creativity. This is a great opportunity to innovate and yet celebrate the Irish imagination and our potential for creativity in education. I can provide examples of how using the arts can keep people in disadvantaged areas in school, such as El Sistema music project in Venezuela and the project of the Irish Chamber Orchestra in Limerick.

The six key skills that will be embedded in subjects as defined in the NCCA document of October 2011 include managing myself, staying well, communications, being creative, working with others and managing information and thinking. The recently published document from the UK's Cultural Learning Alliance, which consists of a number of organisations that came together to look at this and which was funded by the Paul Hamlyn Foundation, outlines very strongly the benefits of structured arts learning at second level. It made a number of key findings. First, learning through arts and culture improves attainment in all subjects. Taking part in drama and library activities improves attainment in literacy. Taking part in structured music activities improves attainment in maths, early language acquisition and early literacy. We do not want to demarcate all the subjects all of a sudden. Arts can support numeracy, literacy and reading. Schools that integrate arts across the curriculum in America have shown consistently higher average reading and mathematics scores, compared with similar schools that do not. Dr. Anne Looney has much information on this and spoke about it in her own capacity.

Second, participation in structured arts activities increases cognitive abilities. Third, students from low income families who take part in arts activities at school are three times more likely to get a degree. Arts activity can keep a person in school, particularly in a disadvantaged area. Fourth, employability of students who study arts subjects is higher and they are more likely to stay in employment. What I want to stress here is that the marketplace should not determine our curriculum. Just because Google or Intel suggest to us that there should be a concentration on mathematics to the detriment of other subjects-----

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Tá nóiméad amháin fágtha agat.

Fiach MacConghail (Independent)
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Go raibh maith agat. Students who engage in the arts at school are twice as likely to volunteer and are 20% more likely to vote as young adults. That is the fifth key finding from this report.

It is evident that the arts can play a very important role in realising these objectives as set out by the Minister and the NCCA's report, which is a role that has been underutilised until now. I note with concern that drama is not mentioned as a subject in the new junior certificate curriculum. It is examined in the short term in terms of performing, but not as a particular subject. Arts and crafts are specified as a particular subject, but not drama. Drama and the arts can support the learning of other subjects too.

Will arts education specialists be part of the planning process for the new junior cycle? The arts have the potential to make an enormous contribution to the new system.

International research and work currently being carried out in Ireland demonstrates how exposure to film, drama, visual arts and literature can support literacy, independent critical thought and creativity, all of which have been identified by the Minister and the NCCA as the main targets of education reform. The arts present a very exciting opportunity to help realise these objectives, but in order to achieve this, greater links need to be made between the Department of Education and Skills and the arts sector. I understand that officials from the Department of Education and Skills and officials from the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht either have met or are set to meet. I would like to see how those skills might be exchanged, particularly in cultural organisations in this country, such as the Ark, the education departments of the Irish Film Institute and IMMA, and Music Network. The Irish Chamber Orchestra in Limerick is doing great work and is modelled on the experience of what is going on in Stirling in Scotland and El Sistema orchestrain Venezuela. Music is used to retain attendance in school and helps support the other elements of the curriculum.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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Tá an t-am istigh.

Fiach MacConghail (Independent)
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Go raibh maith agat.

Mary Moran (Labour)
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I welcome the Minister back to the House. I understand that the debate is on junior cycle reform, but I would like to make reference to Senator Mac Conghail's speech. As a music teacher for over 20 years, I wish he could have been in the classroom at times when I was in utter despair. I welcome his words and I agree wholeheartedly with him as a teacher in a socially disadvantaged school. I taught children from severely disadvantaged backgrounds to play an instrument, to perform in an orchestra, to travel abroad with us and to continue on to third level education. These are the things that have given me the most pride in my career to date.

I welcome the news of the changes to be implemented in the junior cycle reform. As a teacher for more years than I care to remember, I wholeheartedly agree that with the changes in innovation, technology and our general way of life, our approach to education should embody a realistic shift from the rote learning system that we have had for years to a more broad-based system which will encourage our students to think more independently. This will, in turn, ensure that they are more prepared for life after school.

Being examined in only eight subjects at junior cycle will take away some of the pressures that our young students experience in schools today. In my own school, students have told me that they chose their subjects for the leaving certificate not because they had a particular love for the subject, but because the percentage of A grades in that subject was higher, and would enable them to get more points for their chosen course of study. That speaks for itself. Students in many schools study in excess of ten subjects for the junior certificate and indeed my own children studied 12 subjects. Even more worrying is the number of 15 year olds who study 12 subjects in school and then take extra subjects outside school, which places an unnecessary amount of pressure on them. This leads to more problems and I wonder how much of this information can be realistically retained.

From my own experience in schools, I have increasingly found that students count their junior certificate and indeed leaving certificate results in terms of the amount of A grades they achieve, rather than the amount of honours or passes. When I did the intermediate certificate, as it was called then, it seemed to me that students certainly did not get as many A grades as they do now.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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It was honours and pass.

Mary Moran (Labour)
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Absolutely. One came out and said one got X amount of honours and that was it. Nowadays, every year we hear "I got nine As" or "I got ten As". There is not a mention of the C or the B that might have been very well earned. There is too much pressure to get A grades. An A grade now seems to be the equivalent of an honour. Nowadays the pictures on the school "walls of fame" are of students who have achieved ten, 11 or 12 As in their junior certificates and 590 or 600 points in their leaving certificates, which can place a terrible amount of pressure on younger siblings and peers. I welcome the news that the new junior certificate will include tasks that will allow students to focus on improving their observation, inquiry and critical thinking skills and learn to value what it means to be an active citizen with rights and responsibilities in local and wider contexts, rather than the ability to learn from a book. Maybe they will appear on the school wall of fame for their team spirit, their musical ability or their charity work.

Students will study no more than eight subjects, or seven subjects and two short courses, or six subjects and four short courses. Again, I welcome the introduction of these short courses. I am wholeheartedly in agreement that students should be accredited for involvement in school activities such as musicals, sport or debating, which will give them the opportunity to excel in their chosen areas of interest. I also welcome, as spokesperson on disability, the level 2 award that is to be introduced for students with special needs for whom level 3 is not suitable, and the news that the assessment for this will be within the school. I welcome the assessment aspect of the proposed changes and again urge that it is carefully thought out before implementation. Any danger to the new system will be at the assessment stage.

The move away from rote learning is to be welcomed. In the classroom I have seen many examples of students who perhaps do not apply themselves as well as they could but are excellent at cramming for exams, only to forget the information the following day. I have also seen, with greater frequency, the student who works extremely hard throughout the year, giving her best but never gaining the marks she deserves. The idea of assessment, if implemented correctly, will benefit the student who deserves to achieve better grades for effort alone but will never attain these marks under the current exam system. As the Minister said, if the exam does not change, nothing will, and that is a prime example. It is proposed that the written exam will be worth 60% of the overall grade and the portfolio 40%. The issue of assessment within the school needs careful consideration and I urge the Minister to hasten slowly and tread carefully in this regard.

To speak about my own subject, when the new junior certificate music syllabus was introduced in 1994, students did a short practical exam, worth 25%, as part of the overall exam. As a teacher in a VEC, I was allowed to examine the students myself, and did. Senator Power brought up the issue of assessment, and the preparation for assessment in these exams was very well thought out by the Department, with a one-day in-service course which taught the examiner how to examine. I hope the situation will be similar under the new system - I am sure it will. The facts of the assessment and what is to be assessed must be carefully thought out and shown to examiners. A lot of time can be wasted on irrelevant things at in-service courses. They should stick to the facts.

At the moment, the practical part of the music examination at leaving certificate level is worth 50%. Speaking to my colleagues, I have heard that they do not want the responsibility for that final 50%. I can understand this, as we all do continuous assessment on a weekly or monthly basis in the classroom. This can be worked out, but it needs careful consideration, particularly when there are so many marks involved.

A cap seems to be proposed, according to today's newspapers, on the number of students entering third level education. I listened to a debate on this on Radio 1 this morning in which someone commented that if such a cap is implemented, junior certificate students may continue to think in terms of the leaving certificate, working towards the points they need. I ask the Minister to take this into consideration also. I welcome the news of the junior cycle review and ask the Minister to consider my proposals.

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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May I share my time with my two colleagues Senators Crown and Barrett? I will take four minutes and they will take two minutes each. I am being very generous.

I am delighted to see the Minister here, not just because we have a blood relationship but because he is a breath of fresh air, not only in the House but in that seat. He has hit the ground running and come in with enthusiasm and with a question in his mind, not just about the junior certificate but also about everything else. I wish him well and I hope everything works out well for him. I am impressed at the challenge he faces now, with everybody asking him to continue to include arts, drama, or history, and not to forget about science, geography or compulsory Irish. It seems to me he has quite a challenge.

I will not speak quite on that basis. I am impressed with the system in France. I have four French grandchildren, some of whom have gone through the junior cycle, and I am impressed with the international baccalaureate, which is a great system and seems to work well. The international baccalaureate middle years programme, for students aged 11 to 16, provides a framework of academic challenge that encourages students to embrace and understand the connections between traditional subjects and the real world with critical and reflective thinking. It seems to me that this is what we are looking for, namely, to encourage critical and reflective thinking. It will be helpful with regard to innovation if we can get students of that age to think for themselves rather than learning from books alone.

I had an exciting experience a couple of weeks ago down in Tralee with transition year students who were taking a course in innovation. Six hundred of them got together and we brought 60 students down from Drogheda to join them. These were youngsters of 15, just out of the junior cycle and into the senior cycle. To watch and listen to what they were doing was amazing. I introduced myself to one young lady who was sitting beside me. She looked very stylish - the others were all in uniform, but she was wearing high heels. I was impressed with this young lady, whose name was Tara Haughton, because after taking a course in entrepreneurship she invented a system which now has customers in 22 countries who contact her through her Internet site. Would you believe that? I will not go into the detail of what she is selling, but it is to do with high-heeled shoes. It is marvellous. The course asks students whether they can find a challenge or problem in their area and then find a solution to it. That is where the innovations are coming from. It is very impressive.

I was interested in Senator Healy Eames's comment that 20% of students are between the level of special needs and the level that suits most of the other students. I have the experience of meeting Howard Gardner on one occasion, and he spoke about the seven different intelligences that we should consider.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Multiple intelligences.

Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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That was to do with the leaving certificate applied. It impressed me no end. Charles Handy, on the other hand, talks about ten different intelligences. The word they use is "intelligences". How do we encourage this intelligence? It is not a matter of skills. I know the leaving certificate applied is not the junior certificate, but I urge the Minister to keep an eye on that and to do what he can. They are quite disappointed at losing the co-ordinator they had.

I will mention one other concept which is to do with language. It is the Michel Thomas system of learning. I am very impressed with what I have read about it. We talk about how to teach languages, and I believe this is an exciting method that we should consider. One teacher I know has decided to use part of the Michel Thomas method to teach French. The method does not use books, memorising or homework, and is based on giving students the confidence to speak a language. In essence, Michel Thomas breaks a language down to its component parts and enables learners to construct the language themselves. This reminds me of going to the Gaeltacht. We had no books or, at least, I do not remember having them and we did not have rote learning. We simply learned Irish. I remember my children and ourselves coming back from the Gaeltacht and being able to speak the language but not because we had been taught in that way. I offer one quote from The Guardian newspaper about the experience of someone who taught French in a school in London for one week:

He astounded staff at a school in north London by teaching a group of teenagers deemed incapable of learning languages. In one week, they learned the amount of French it normally takes five years to acquire.

I refer to it because I believe language teaching is capable of being done in a different way and I include Gaeilge in that. We can achieve a great deal more. I am pleased that the Minister is here and that we are having this debate. I believe we can go a long way with it. I was pleased with the words the Minister used as well and with the investment in language teaching.

John Crown (Independent)
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I will cut down on the formalities because of time constraints. As we are all aware, the opposite of education is ignorance. The educated person lives longer and better, is more prosperous and healthier, eats better, smokes fewer cigarettes and has better control of their fertility. These are well-established international facts and the arguments for a good education are overwhelming. The key issue is what to teach people. Sometimes, the Irish follow the Brendan Behan dictum that the first item on the agenda of any Irish organisation is the split. We seem to fall naturally into a split between the arts and the sciences. We live in a world of medicine and science and I practise in a world of medicine and science but I was better at the arts and my best examination results in school were in the arts. Any good career guidance teacher would have suggested that I keep away from medicine and it is striking that I have managed to achieve a modest level of success in it.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Exceptional.

Fiach MacConghail (Independent)
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The Senator's objectivity is fantastic as well.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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He was brought up on twin tracks.

John Crown (Independent)
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I will allow Senator Mac Conghail to produce my first play. I read approximately 20 non-science books per year and I am interested in this issue. It is not a question of either-or, we must have both. We live in a world of science governed by gravity, temperature, relativity, meteorology and evolution. These are all realities and we should teach people science all the way through school, not to pick out the brilliant scientists who will become the elite whitecoat-wearing eggheads, but to give people an essential part of the skill set they need to interpret the reality of life.

If we had more people in these two Chambers who, in addition to having arts backgrounds, understood the critical importance of science, social science, history, geography and natural science, then they would make many more sensible decisions about such things as energy, the economy and agriculture. It is critical to produce people who have these skills and it is essential that people have a mandatory arts component all the way through to the time they leave school at 18 years of age. This should include a mandatory foreign language not for matriculation purposes, but to give students a skill which most of our fellow European citizens have in an area in which, in general, we fare rather poorly.

It is difficult to discuss the junior certificate without asking the following existential question. Do we really need to have an examination that people do half way through secondary school? I remain to be convinced that some outside-the-box thinking would not come to the conclusion that it is a historical construct that we inherited, that we ape the British and their O-level examinations, that it does not make a great deal of sense and that it hinders the flexibility of teachers to cater for younger secondary school students. I trust I have not gone on too much.

Sean Barrett (Independent)
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It is always a pleasure to welcome the Minister to the House. He bubbles over with ideas in education. The Minister stated that concerns have been highlighted by higher education industry interests indicating that students are not acquiring the skills they need to be autonomous learners or to cope with the demands of the knowledge society. I offer a word of caution because it was adults who destroyed this country, not the children. Some of the comment from people in higher education is patronising to say the least. The Minister and I have attended student meetings at which the best speakers were the students, not the esteemed figures of Irish higher education. Their goal appears to be to avoid contact with students. The Comptroller and Auditor General has pointed out that higher education is remarkably expensive and that the highest paid people in third level education in Ireland have nothing to do with students.

Marie Louise O'Donnell (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Sean Barrett (Independent)
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This distancing from reality is much to their disadvantage. I direct the same remarks to the members of IBEC and other bodies. These are the people who undermined so much of our public administration, banking and so on. It is somewhat rich of them to blame people who are 14 and 15 years of age at this stage.

There is a problem with mathematics and it is not being addressed by the same university heads who offer bonus points to those who can afford grinds. No attempt is being made to reform the teaching of mathematics to people in schools.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear. Now the Senator has it.

Sean Barrett (Independent)
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According to a recent report, the high percentage of so-called out-of-field teachers is having an adverse effect on the achievement of second level students in mathematics. Another effect is the pressure these heads have put on language departments. I gather they have shut down more than they have opened up in recent times but we need more foreign language expertise in the country.

I am concerned about continuous assessment. From where is progress continuously assessed? At third level it has been scaled back because it depends on whose father or uncle had the best website for downloading purposes. I make the point as a message of caution. There have been many ill-advised comments from outside bodies such as those I have mentioned. Too little time is spent in the classroom and too little of the budget is spent in the classroom, especially at third level. Let us make it people-centred as the Minister intends and let us not write off rote learning entirely either. I imagine Frank Lloyd Wright passed all his examinations and then became the creative person the Minister greatly admires. There is a list of things that people should be able for such as meaningful learning and sociological understanding but it requires some foundation, much of which comes from hard work and learning. Mathematics is hard work and foreign languages are difficult subjects and we cannot ignore this in the passage of any reform. I welcome the Minister and I wish him well in his endeavours.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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It is dangerous to let three speakers share because they had ten minutes between them. Anyway, I have been more than fair. Six Members are offering to speak. We must finish by 5.45 p.m. because of how the business has been ordered. I call on Senators to confine themselves to questions because I am keen for the Minister to have 12 minutes to respond. I call Senator Clune.

Deirdre Clune (Fine Gael)
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I did not realise I was restricted to questions. I carried out some research before coming to the Chamber. It is now 12 months since the OECD PISA report was published. It was a shocking indictment of our system. The Minister was surprised although he was in a different role at the time. For the first time it called into question our literacy standards. There have been warning signs about numeracy but for the first time literacy was affected. Then we took note of it. Last year, we slipped from fifth to 17th in the figures. It is important to reform the junior certificate and this would represent one small step forward.

There appears to be evidence of grade inflation in the junior certificate. How does this tie in with international standards which appear to show a decline in Irish standards? It is important to take note of international standards because we are a part of an international community. We were proud of our education system and we display and promote it internationally. I am keen to hear whether the Minister has any insight into this matter. There appears to be evidence of grade inflation because more students have been getting A grades but this does not tie in with the OECD figures.

Another question, to which Senator Healy Eames referred, relates to the 20% of students that the current junior certificate does not suit. I imagine the reforms will suit this 20% of students because of short-term classes and so on. However, we should not throw out the other 75% and we should not throw out everything with the bathwater. We need an examination and we need students to be tested. This much is important and it is important to have a junior certificate and to test children because they will be adults shortly afterwards and they need the confidence to step up to the plate.

Denis O'Donovan (Fianna Fail)
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I call Senator Ó Domhnaill. Try not to be repetitive and stick to the questions, please.

Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail)
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I will be brief and I will stick to two questions. The proposals brought forward by the Minister will bring about greater creativity and innovation in the whole learning environment for junior cycle students. The Minister indicated he is asking his officials to engage with the education partners in respect of implementing these proposals. What stage is that at? What timescale is involved? How long will it take before the discussions turn into a more formidable template for implementation?

The Minister outlined the importance of ensuring ICT is strengthened across all subjects, something with which I concur. We are in a new learning age and ICT must be strengthened. Where is the budget commitment to go with that?

John Gilroy (Labour)
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I welcome the Minister to the Chamber. He is well known as a reformer, something which is widely recognised. The reform of the junior certificate is timely, important and one which everybody involved in education will welcome.

I note the six key skills, which is an excellent development. Are those set out in the presentation exhaustive? If they are, I suggest the Minister might consider an additional one under the heading of "staying well". We know suicide is the leading cause of death among young people between the ages of 15 and 24 in this country. Perhaps we could use the new programme to embed a module into the junior certificate cycle to promote positive mental health. There is a general provision but we should make it more explicit.

Skills such as coping with failure, disappointment and rejection, the importance of self esteem, the ability to recognise it is normal to sometimes feel down and others are needed. Teachers are very important gatekeepers in this area and perhaps they should be retrained or upskilled to recognise potential crises in the lives of young people. I feel strongly that training should be embedded in primary and preschool settings. There is now an opportunity to do something about the problem and I urge the Minister to consider what can be done.

There does not seem to be a huge emphasis on the importance of physical education in the cycle.

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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I remind Senators they have only one minute to ask questions.

Kathryn Reilly (Sinn Fein)
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I am the Senator who has most recently done the junior certificate.

Concerns were raised about science not being a core subject. Will students have the opportunity to try subjects before they have to sign up to them? If they have a choice they may not choose to study science. What is the take-up of science in schools where it is currently an optional choice?

Can the Minister give any further detail on the policing of continuous assessment and portfolio work? How will schools moderate work marked by teachers? Teachers will be checking teachers within a faculty. If that is the case I would be concerned it could cause tensions among peers in schools.

I am also concerned about external moderation on a sample basis by the SEC. How large will be the sample of schools within an area or students' work within a school? When I studied junior certificate science we rushed to fill out our experiment books at the end of the year because they might have been examined. We did not necessarily do all the experiments but we filled out the books for the sake of it.

Catherine Noone (Fine Gael)
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As there are three Senators offering, I ask them to be brief because we want to allow the Minister time to respond.

Caít Keane (Fine Gael)
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On the different methodologies of teaching, has Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences been considered? We spoke a lot about what is available for assessment and teaching but the methodology of teaching, the different ways of learning, the wide range of cognitive abilities and the human potential people have need to be considered. Has the Minister considered retraining some teachers in how children learn?

The eight intelligences of the child must be taken into consideration. It has been found in America that bodily and kinesthetic and muscle movement helped various children to learn. Each child should be given the opportunity to learn in ways which are harmonious with his or her unique mind.

The Minister referred to assessment, short courses and musicals. Will schools in deprived areas be provided with assistance? It costs money to put on a musical. Have teachers bought into continuous assessment or is the dialogue just beginning?

Michael D'Arcy (Fine Gael)
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I refer to students who are at a physical disadvantage, not because they are physically disadvantaged personally but because the buildings they are in are dumps. All the research shows if children are taught in very poor facilities, such as prefabs or old buildings, which are inadequate before they go to post primary school, and then move into another building which is inadequate they are at a disadvantage.

I wonder how we will have a level playing field to ensure we get the best out of teachers or students. There is a conflict between those who will be taught in new facilities and those taught in dumps. I am not sure how the Minister will be able to address that challenge.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I will try to address most of the points. If possible I will try to write to Senators in response to some comments.

A lot of concern was expressed about buy-in by teachers, particularly on the question of assessment. As I said, unless the examination changes nothing else will change. I am acutely aware of the reservations.

One senator asked a specific question on the examination proposals. The ASTI has had a long-held position in regard to this matter. It has said it is not happy and is opposed at the current time to assessing students for examination purposes. It constantly assesses students. There is a historic reason for its objection, namely provincial town pressure. The ASTI is not being obstructionist on this. It has genuine concerns which I understand. I hope to work with it to see if we can find ways to alleviate them.

Senator Power referred to the possibility of electronic assistance using ICT. We are exploring the idea. If teachers verify that the work in question from a pupil is his or her own work, and not done at home by somebody else, with better IT support it could be filed electronically. That is the world we are in. Work could be open to assessment on that basis and we are currently actively exploring that.

Senator Crown, referring to various subjects, said it was not a case of either-or. There has to be a mixture of everything. The 24 statements, the use of the arts in a creative way to enable better communication, confidence in presenting and working together in groups are covered. I invite Senators to read the curriculum and look at what the NCCA has done in regard to the sorts of things we are trying to include.

The NCCA and the Department could very easily have gone through the various stages and presented a well worked out and detailed template for a new junior certificate examination. We chose not to do that for a very good reason. We want people to buy into the formulation, development and completion of the process. That is why we will enter into discussions without preconceptions with the various stakeholders, including teachers and management bodies. The change involves a lot of timetabling issues.

A Senator asked about a range of subjects and economic pressures in terms of resources, and said we might lose subjects such as languages. Towns like Clonmel, Tuam, Carrickmacross or other traditional towns may have three schools. There may be an array of language teachers to provide a full range of language training. In this day and age we can no longer afford the luxury of ignoring those resources.

We have to find ways of providing language teaching, even if it means people being in different schools at different times or going to one class in one school. It is part and parcel of where we are. We have too many secondary schools with 200 to 300 pupils where the range of subjects and capacity to deliver them is limited. We will have to consider ways of maximising efficiencies within our current constraints.

I fully agree there is a strong correlation between music and mathematical ability; that is a long-established connection. In terms of finding new ways to teach the fundamental skills of literacy and numeracy, I am not a professional educationalist, but everything I have read suggests, and this goes back a long time in the theory of education, that capability in numeracy and literacy are great predictors of future outcomes in terms of a person's subsequent venture into any particular vocational sphere.

In regard to making the arts compulsory, much depends on the primary curriculum. One cannot talk about this in isolation from everything else. As Professor Tom Collins famously said at an Irish Primary Principals Network conference some years ago, children in Ireland today enjoy their primary school experience. In the year in which we are celebrating 180 years of primary school education, we should acknowledge that this generation of primary school teachers and the new curriculum have removed fear from the childhood experience of going to primary school, a fear which was formerly deemed normal and characteristic. The teaching of arts, dance, motion, drama and articulation are now woven through the entire curriculum, so much so that anybody who has contact with young children will know that school is something they enjoy.

The problem is that children subsequently undergo a curtailment within the very tight constraint that is the secondary school experience. This is the context within which we are seeking to reform the junior certificate. First, it will have a new name, to be chosen by the Irish Secondary Schools Union. What is most important is that the junior cycle cannot be evaluated in isolation from the literacy and numeracy strategy.

The question of resources was raised by Senator Averil Power and others. We are extending the teacher training programme for primary school teachers from three to four years, at a cost of some €90 million in a full year. I have found the money from within existing funding and have so far met the requirements for budgetary reduction as requested by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Brendan Howlin. The additional year will be primarily centred on pedagogical and educational skills and will incorporate a consideration of the multiple skills and intelligences of students and how they can be nurtured and developed.

Likewise, and perhaps even more importantly, at second level we are extending what was traditionally referred to as the H. Dip from a one year to a two-year course. That additional year will again focus on pedagogical and teaching skills. There will be a fundamental difference in testing in that we will have measured and standardised learning interventions at second class, fourth class and again at second level. When one is cooking one must constantly sample the dish in order to ensure it tastes as one intends. We are engaged in a similar process in terms of measuring learning inputs and outcomes.

It is not a question of examinations or critically assessing pupils. One of the Senators suggested that there be a mid-term examination. We must bear in mind that the credibility of the examination system is crucial. As unsatisfactory as the points system is, and the accompanying rote learning for the leaving certificate, the system is trusted by everybody. It has not been tainted with the type of defilement that has been done to so many institutions in this country. It has been utterly beyond any type of interference, and we interfere with it at our peril.

The new intake of teachers will be better and longer trained. While primary school teachers are seen to teach children, secondary school teachers are seen primarily to teach history, mathematics and so on rather than teaching young adults. We must incorporate an holistic approach at second level.

Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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The problem is that it is all about the examination.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Yes. The literacy and numeracy strategy is being rolled out and is part and parcel of broader reform. The curriculum does not function in isolation. It will take time and resources to implement reform.

In regard to the points system, in my innocence, I was two months in office before I realised the points system is not part of the education system as we know it. Rather, it is owned and controlled by the universities. Senator Mary Moran talked about honours and pass levels. We intend to simplify the grades at junior cycle so that the examination no longer functions as a mock leaving certificate. If one asks a student how he or she has done in the junior certificate, one will be told what has been achieved in terms of leaving certificate points. It is like a simulated leaving certificate.

The final part of the process of reform must be to open up the constraints of the second level curriculum by reviewing the points system. I advise Senators to read Professor Áine Hyland's paper at transition.ie, where she shows that the number of university courses available through the CAO application process has exploded by 300% in recent years. The system is being used by universities to attract high-level points and to boast that access to a particular course requires 550 points or whatever. We can change that. One of the recommendations that came out of the conference in UCD in September was to look to a system such as that in the University of Melbourne in Australia, where all first year students now take one of eight foundation courses. If one wishes to study science, arts, finance or whatever, one takes the appropriate foundation course before proceeding to a more specialised choice after the first year. UCD already does this in the case of engineering with students taking a common course in first year before specialising in chemical, electronic or civil engineering.

Such a system removes pressure from students and prevents the disastrous consequences of pupils filling out the CAO form in February of sixth year, when they are 16 or 17 years old. Evidence shows that where students attain only their second or subsequent choice, the probability of them dropping out is very high. Most of us are of an age to recall when men who thought they had a vocation realised within weeks of joining a seminary that they were mistaken but did not tell their mothers for three years. Young people are understandably anxious when telling their parents that they made the wrong choice and do not like the course they are doing. Addressing that issue is part of the process of reform.

While I appreciate that the focus of the discussion was on the question of liberating the first three years of secondary education, that reform is not happening on its own. Rather, it fits into the continuum of reform to which I referred. I thank Senators for their contributions.