Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)

I will try to address most of the points. If possible I will try to write to Senators in response to some comments.

A lot of concern was expressed about buy-in by teachers, particularly on the question of assessment. As I said, unless the examination changes nothing else will change. I am acutely aware of the reservations.

One senator asked a specific question on the examination proposals. The ASTI has had a long-held position in regard to this matter. It has said it is not happy and is opposed at the current time to assessing students for examination purposes. It constantly assesses students. There is a historic reason for its objection, namely provincial town pressure. The ASTI is not being obstructionist on this. It has genuine concerns which I understand. I hope to work with it to see if we can find ways to alleviate them.

Senator Power referred to the possibility of electronic assistance using ICT. We are exploring the idea. If teachers verify that the work in question from a pupil is his or her own work, and not done at home by somebody else, with better IT support it could be filed electronically. That is the world we are in. Work could be open to assessment on that basis and we are currently actively exploring that.

Senator Crown, referring to various subjects, said it was not a case of either-or. There has to be a mixture of everything. The 24 statements, the use of the arts in a creative way to enable better communication, confidence in presenting and working together in groups are covered. I invite Senators to read the curriculum and look at what the NCCA has done in regard to the sorts of things we are trying to include.

The NCCA and the Department could very easily have gone through the various stages and presented a well worked out and detailed template for a new junior certificate examination. We chose not to do that for a very good reason. We want people to buy into the formulation, development and completion of the process. That is why we will enter into discussions without preconceptions with the various stakeholders, including teachers and management bodies. The change involves a lot of timetabling issues.

A Senator asked about a range of subjects and economic pressures in terms of resources, and said we might lose subjects such as languages. Towns like Clonmel, Tuam, Carrickmacross or other traditional towns may have three schools. There may be an array of language teachers to provide a full range of language training. In this day and age we can no longer afford the luxury of ignoring those resources.

We have to find ways of providing language teaching, even if it means people being in different schools at different times or going to one class in one school. It is part and parcel of where we are. We have too many secondary schools with 200 to 300 pupils where the range of subjects and capacity to deliver them is limited. We will have to consider ways of maximising efficiencies within our current constraints.

I fully agree there is a strong correlation between music and mathematical ability; that is a long-established connection. In terms of finding new ways to teach the fundamental skills of literacy and numeracy, I am not a professional educationalist, but everything I have read suggests, and this goes back a long time in the theory of education, that capability in numeracy and literacy are great predictors of future outcomes in terms of a person's subsequent venture into any particular vocational sphere.

In regard to making the arts compulsory, much depends on the primary curriculum. One cannot talk about this in isolation from everything else. As Professor Tom Collins famously said at an Irish Primary Principals Network conference some years ago, children in Ireland today enjoy their primary school experience. In the year in which we are celebrating 180 years of primary school education, we should acknowledge that this generation of primary school teachers and the new curriculum have removed fear from the childhood experience of going to primary school, a fear which was formerly deemed normal and characteristic. The teaching of arts, dance, motion, drama and articulation are now woven through the entire curriculum, so much so that anybody who has contact with young children will know that school is something they enjoy.

The problem is that children subsequently undergo a curtailment within the very tight constraint that is the secondary school experience. This is the context within which we are seeking to reform the junior certificate. First, it will have a new name, to be chosen by the Irish Secondary Schools Union. What is most important is that the junior cycle cannot be evaluated in isolation from the literacy and numeracy strategy.

The question of resources was raised by Senator Averil Power and others. We are extending the teacher training programme for primary school teachers from three to four years, at a cost of some €90 million in a full year. I have found the money from within existing funding and have so far met the requirements for budgetary reduction as requested by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Brendan Howlin. The additional year will be primarily centred on pedagogical and educational skills and will incorporate a consideration of the multiple skills and intelligences of students and how they can be nurtured and developed.

Likewise, and perhaps even more importantly, at second level we are extending what was traditionally referred to as the H. Dip from a one year to a two-year course. That additional year will again focus on pedagogical and teaching skills. There will be a fundamental difference in testing in that we will have measured and standardised learning interventions at second class, fourth class and again at second level. When one is cooking one must constantly sample the dish in order to ensure it tastes as one intends. We are engaged in a similar process in terms of measuring learning inputs and outcomes.

It is not a question of examinations or critically assessing pupils. One of the Senators suggested that there be a mid-term examination. We must bear in mind that the credibility of the examination system is crucial. As unsatisfactory as the points system is, and the accompanying rote learning for the leaving certificate, the system is trusted by everybody. It has not been tainted with the type of defilement that has been done to so many institutions in this country. It has been utterly beyond any type of interference, and we interfere with it at our peril.

The new intake of teachers will be better and longer trained. While primary school teachers are seen to teach children, secondary school teachers are seen primarily to teach history, mathematics and so on rather than teaching young adults. We must incorporate an holistic approach at second level.