Seanad debates

Wednesday, 20 May 2009

10:30 am

Photo of Donie CassidyDonie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, motion re European Commission proposals on Schengen evaluation mechanisms; No. 2, statements on the organic food industry; No. 3, Companies (Amendment) Bill 2009 - Order for Committee Stage and Committee Stage; and No. 31, Private Members' motion No. 31 re overseas aid. It is proposed that No. 1, motion re adoption and application of a proposal relating to the Schengen aquis, be referred to committee without debate at the conclusion of the Order of Business; and No. 2, Statements on the Organic Food Industry be taken at the conclusion of No. 1 and to conclude not later than 1.30 p.m. The contributions of spokespersons is not exceed ten minutes and all those of all other Senators not to exceed seven minutes. Senators may share time by agreement of the House. The Minister shall be called upon ten minutes from the conclusion of the debate for concluding comments and to take questions from leaders or spokespersons. The business of the House shall be interrupted between 1.30 p.m and 3 p.m. No. 3, the Companies (Amendment) Bill 2009 - Committee Stage shall be taken at 3 p.m. and shall adjourn not later than 5 p.m. if not previously concluded. Private Members' motion No. 31 re overseas aid shall be taken at the conclusion of No. 3 and shall conclude not later than 7 p.m.

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
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Has the Leader received a commitment from Government that legislation will be introduced in the House on a more frequent basis than has been the case to date this term?

The report of the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse, which has been sitting for ten years, will be available this afternoon. The commission examined the abuse suffered by hundreds of children in institutions throughout the country run over a long period mostly by religious orders. The interim report about the experiences of these children is painful to read. No doubt later today and tomorrow, by which time we will have seen the detail of the ten years of work of the commission, the country will be horrified.

Before we see the report I wish to put on record that abuse of children continues in present day Ireland. I refer to the report issued within the past week from the Mental Health Commission. It states that more than 247 children in the country who needed mental health care and treatment were admitted to adult wards in adult institutions in the past year, an increase from 2007. It is an appalling outrage that in 2009 there are some 200 children needing the best that the country can offer in terms of care and treatment, but are being admitted into adult mental health facilities. Not long ago I was given a commitment in a committee that this would not continue. I was told by members of the HSE and Ministers that this would change. The House and the Dáil were told this would change. However, the report of the Mental Health Commission outlines that 247 of the most vulnerable children in need of care, protection and mental health treatment were treated in adult wards. What commission will be inquiring into this in ten years time? Today will be the report of the commission which has examined abuse up to the 1990s. However this is also abuse of children, some 247 of which are receiving such care. This is the best we can do. Who will be accountable for this? What Minister will come before the House and explain why this is the situation?

Photo of Paul CoghlanPaul Coghlan (Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Frances FitzgeraldFrances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael)
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Yesterday, we heard from Senator Healy Eames about a young autistic boy in Galway who needs to be cared for in a special class because of a mild disability. He can be cared for nowhere else except in a special class. Such classes are being withdrawn all over the country. These children are not getting the care they need.

There are hundreds of children at risk of being abused whose cases have been referred to the HSE. However, the files are lying on shelves unopened because there is no social worker allocated to look after these cases. The Monageer report was published this week with recommendations blacked out but they cannot be acted on if they are not made public and discussed in the Houses. On a morning when we hear of a further €40 million that has been wasted, what Minister is responsible and will come before the House to take responsibility for these failures to protect our children?

There have been four Fianna Fáil Ministers of State with responsibility for children, namely, Deputies Mary Hanafin, Brian Lenihan, Brendan Smith and Barry Andrews. What were they doing in their brief if they could not take action to ensure this did not continue? Will the Leader ensure a Minister comes before the House to answer these questions?

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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I support some of the comments of my colleague, Senator Fitzgerald, on the abuse of children. I remind the Leader of his commitment two weeks ago to hold a discussion whenever necessary on the matter of child abuse in Monageer. Another report will be published today. The Government made a despicable and disgraceful decision this morning to withdraw support for the Middletown Centre for Autism.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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It was to have been a state-of-the-art centre, a manifestation of the good of the North-South Ministerial bodies and a concrete expression of the Good Friday Agreement. It has been subjected to much political abuse. Ken Magennis in the North has tried to bury it time and again. This House has been quick to criticise unionist interests in the North which oppose North-South and all-island initiatives, but this is an example in which our Government is pulling back. The centre is based in County Armagh and run as much by southern people as by northern people. The director is Mr. Laurence Crowley and several other directors are from the South. The centre has dealt with children from as far south as Waterford. It has organised training and development for NEPS, the national educational and psychology service, in the South. It is doing extraordinary work.

Recently, I had the privilege of leading a North-South parliamentary delegation associated with Co-operation Ireland to the centre. Staff at the centre were full of confidence, moving ahead and dealing with the issues. The Government had a choice whether to put an extra lane on the road from Monaghan to Derry or to examine the option of supporting autistic children in Middletown, County Armagh. It took the easy option and buried the kids once more. That is exactly the point made by Senator Fitzgerald. Why is it every time the Government takes such decisions it is the children, without votes, expression and articulation, who suffer? It is appalling and I appeal to the Leader to allow a debate tomorrow on the broad range of issues dealing with the child abuse report to be published today, the decision of the Government on the Middletown Centre for Autism and the matter of the children who are being dealt with unfairly, incorrectly and against the spirit of the Constitution as stated by the Mental Health Commission.

I propose an amendment to the Order of Business and I will continue to do so every day until there is a debate on NAMA. I do not know if people are listening to what the world is saying. What are we doing about this issue? What is the position of those on the Government side when they are asked questions about NAMA and merely reply that it is a good idea without explaining it? There is something desperately wrong about this. Of what are people afraid? Why does the Minister not come before the House to say what he is thinking and ask what we think about it? Why does someone from the Department not come before the House and explain how to move this matter forward? I seek a debate and I move an amendment to the Order of Business which I will press to a vote unless the Leader can give some commitment that there will be a debate today with a representative of the Government to explain the proposals on NAMA.

Photo of Phil PrendergastPhil Prendergast (Labour)
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I rise to speak about our children. I concur with the comments of Senator O'Toole in respect of the Centre for Autism. According to the Stormont Minister Caitríona Ruane, MLA, the cross-Border centre was to offer research and information, educational assessment, learning support and training and an advisory service to those suffering from autism. There were extensive debates held here last year in respect of autism and the matter was debated in both Houses. I am in contact with people whose children are affected by this awful condition which has a wide spectrum and they are no nearer solace from their suffering.

I refer to those suffering from epilepsy who must wait between 18 and 24 months to see a neurologist. I am aware that some efforts have been made, including the employment of additional neurologists. However, a waiting period of 18 to 24 months is outside the remit of anyone. There are 37,000 people greater than five years of age suffering from this condition which has a myriad of causes. I call on the Minister to make a statement on the ward closures at Crumlin hospital. I did not get a comprehensive response on the issue last week and am still receiving requests from parents of children waiting for life-saving elective surgery. What is to happen to those children? The hospital is still accepting referrals for emergency surgery from hospitals around the country, as has always been the practice, but what solace is there for those awaiting elective surgery?

Cystic fibrosis sufferers north of the Border have a ten-year better outcome prognosis than cystic fibrosis sufferers south of the Border. We need a serious debate on the issues affecting our children. I could go on about psychology services, but Senator Frances Fitzgerald covered that issue very well this morning. I have received many representations from parents whose children are awaiting a psychological assessment but insufficient staff are available to carry out these assessments. Psychologists on maternity leave are not being replaced. We are failing our children every day of the week and that will lead to a long-term bad outcome.

Photo of Ned O'SullivanNed O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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The Leader and colleagues are aware of the Go Safe programme which concerns the setting up and monitoring of speed cameras nationally. This programme was to have been in operation by now, but that is not the case. I understand that responsibility for the programme lies between the Departments of Transport and Justice, Equality and Law Reform. As a result of the changed economic situation, the Department of Finance is probably casting its beady eye over the value for money aspect of it. This is a very important health and safety issue and that must transcend other considerations.

The contract for the project was awarded to a well-known Kerry company, Spectra Laboratories, and it is in a position to create 60 new jobs. It is champing at the bit to get the programme going, but it is frustrated. It has taken on some staff and has incurred significant costs. I ask the Leader to liaise with the Ministers for Transport and Justice, Equality and Law Reform and with the Taoiseach, who has taken an interest in the issue, to see if matters can be expedited. It would be a short-sighted decision to defer or postpone the installation of the programme. That would go down very badly with the public. I ask for the Leader's assistance on this matter.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I seek a debate on the reconfiguration of HSE services. This morning's Irish Examiner reported that Cork University Hospital would be the sole acute care centre for the region. I am concerned by the consistent and persistent downgrading of medical services in Cork city. Is there political interference in the HSE? Are members of the Government interfering in the running of the HSE? A report that was leaked to the Irish Examiner refers to the HSE plans to downgrade the Mercy hospital in Cork, the Victoria South Infirmary and Bantry and Mallow general hospitals and to have one acute hospital in Cork. Why is that the case? Why does the Minister not publish the report? Is she afraid of the embarrassment in the local elections? Why do the people of Cork not have a say on the planning of the services?

We have all seen the report on co-location. Does the Government intend to continue with the co-location policy on health services? The report should be published because the people of Cork deserve an answer as to why there is a downgrading of services in the main hospitals in the city and why we will only have only one acute hospital in the city. It is about time the Government, particularly the Minister responsible, stopped hiding behind the HSE and officials. The Minister should answer questions in this House on the matter. We deserve acute centres of excellence in Cork city north and south. It is not good enough that services are being downgraded.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Leader to arrange for an early debate, before 5 June, on the issue of accountable and effective local government. A very important document issued yesterday which refers to the freezing of business rates for three years and the halving of levies on buildings for two years, provided people are wise enough to vote for Fianna Fáil so that it has a majority on councils. I hope this proposal will be extended throughout the country. It is a good idea to halve for two years levies for those who proceed with building. This will provide an incentive to builders who have received planning permission to proceed with projects. It would be worthwhile to have a debate on that issue. We should also discuss the freezing of rates for businesses for three years. This is a great incentive and we should debate the matter before 5 June to ensure we get the returns to which we are entitled in the elections.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Fianna Fáil will get the returns it deserves all right; there is no need to worry about that.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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People will benefit when all the levies are halved following this innovative proposal. There is provision for an extension of planning permission of one and a half to two years where work has been started within the five years. This proposal is a call for action and I encourage builders, developers and one-off house builders to proceed on the basis of this offer from the Government, which I hope will be extended to all counties, whether councils are controlled by Fianna Fáil after 5 June.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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I second Senator O'Toole's amendment. I support the call by Senators Fitzgerald and O'Toole for a debate on the report on child abuse, particularly in light of motion No. 9 on the Order Paper which refers to the extraordinary exemption of the churches from the operations of the equality legislation. The churches are now placed above the law with regard to equality, which gives them the right to dismiss teachers. This is, in effect, a question of bullying. In 80% of cases of homophobic bullying nothing is done because the teachers are afraid. This is unacceptable. It is obscene that the group that in four successive reports has had its reputation impugned in this area continues to be allowed this opportunity for discrimination.

We know there is no real equality in this country. It is very sinister that today our predictions have come true with regard to the Equality Authority. The new chief executive is, as we suspected, a senior member of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. The authority will have no independence and no credibility. I call for a debate on the issue, as proposed in motion No. 21 on the Order Paper.

I wish to refer to the law on blasphemy, an issue that has been raised several times in the House. Today, a senior member of the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe, OSCE, Mr. Miklos Haraszti, said that in creating this offence of blasphemy, Ireland is taking a regrettable, backward step, which negates the progress it had made. Nothing was done for ten years and we were quite happy to turn a blind eye to it. That is what we should continue to do. Perhaps the Constitution needs to be revised to deal with this issue.

One of my colleagues raised examples of some absurd instances as justification for an offence of blasphemy. It was suggested somebody might take the host, the most sacred element of Christian worship, and destroy it in public or that somebody might stand outside a synagogue and abuse the Jewish community by saying "Up the holocaust". These are extraordinary, bizarre and ridiculous acts that would, presumably, be committed by somebody who was unbalanced. If not, the law already exists under which the issue can be addressed. These are breaches of public order. This is conduct likely to cause a breach of the peace. We do not need the blasphemy law. It will only be used to restrict freedom of speech and it must be resisted.

Photo of Labhrás Ó MurchúLabhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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In recent times, improvement works were carried out on the Pearse Museum in St. Enda's, Rathfarnham. The OPW is to be commended on the work it has done there and on the fine work it has done on many other historical buildings throughout the country. Prior to the improvement works a list of some of those who played an active role in the War of Independence was on display in the museum, but I understand the list will not be replaced. This has upset many family members who were proud of their loved ones who had made sacrifices and contributed to the independence of this country. There may be a perception abroad that there is an element of revisionism or of being overly politically correct in this decision. I hope that is not the case and I sincerely ask the OPW to ensure the list that was there prior to the improvement works is replaced.

Photo of Eugene ReganEugene Regan (Fine Gael)
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I understand the motion re European Commission proposals on Schengen evaluation mechanisms is to be taken without debate this morning. Will the Leader arrange a full debate on the Schengen Agreement, perhaps when this evaluation has been carried out? Given that the common travel area between Ireland and the United Kingdom is the subject of major revision at present, it is important for us to reflect on this country's position on the agreement and on the EU free travel area. That would be an important debate.

The Government has announced that the construction of a prison at Thornton Hall is to be abandoned, in effect. When the Seanad debated this matter last year, we were told that it was full steam ahead. When the process of inviting tenders and selecting a preferred bidder has been completed, I do not understand how the selected bidder can suggest that the cost of a project should be allowed to increase by 30%. The Government's handling of matters of this nature - its failure to see projects through - is characterised by a certain incompetence. Costs tend to escalate after the procedure for selecting bidders has been completed and tenders have been announced. The Government is wonderful at announcing projects, but it is hopeless when it comes to implementing them. It seems that this project will go the way of the decentralisation programme, the PPARS computer system project and the electronic voting system. Perhaps the National Asset Management Agency, NAMA, will ultimately be abandoned too. It is disappointing that we are great at making announcements, but not at implementing our plans.

Last month, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform gave the Dáil detailed figures setting out the extent of the overcrowding in our prison system. We know from the reports of bodies such as the prisons inspectorate that violence is rife in our prisons. Continued criminal activity within prisons is rampant. Illegal drugs are widely available. Almost a quarter of prisoners are under protective custody. It now seems the Government intends to abandon a prison-building project that was intended to resolve many of these issues. It is an example of incompetence of the highest order. We must have a prisons policy. Will the Leader arrange for the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, to come to the House to outline where we will go from here in light of the Government's abandonment of this project at a cost of €40 million to date.

Photo of Marc MacSharryMarc MacSharry (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the fact that 400 prison places are to be provided at Portlaoise, Castlerea and Wheatfield prisons. They will come on stream shortly, following negotiations with the Prison Officers Association. I also welcome the prudent decision to renegotiate, to the maximum extent possible, the costs that will be involved in building the new prison at Thornton Hall. It is prudent to adjust one's outlook and one's plans in line with one's changed circumstances.

I support the call for a debate on NAMA as soon as possible. I am conscious that it is a work in progress. The process of implementing the decision to establish NAMA will be highly technical and highly detailed. As I said yesterday, anyone who has ideas in this regard should bring them forward. The Order of Business in this House gives Senators an opportunity to do so. The door of the Minister for Finance is open. We should have a debate in due course.

I repeat what I said yesterday about NAMA. Many countries, including Germany, are mimicking the Irish process of pooling and centrally managing debts that are deemed to be bad or toxic. Government paper, which will be redeemable from the European Investment Bank, will be used to pay those debts. In my view, that represents the way forward for the entire European Union. Germany is doing it in a similar way. I do not think anyone doubts that we received a resounding vote of confidence yesterday when the National Treasury Management Agency's bond issue was over-subscribed. The international markets are giving their wholehearted approval to the Government's decision to introduce the right policies to get Ireland out of the difficult mess it is in. We are not alone in being in a mess. At a time when Ireland is attracting improved sentiment, the opposite is the case in other big economies, such as Japan. It is clear that the policies we have started to introduce are beginning to produce the tender green shoots that show we are moving in the right direction towards recovery.

I call once more for a debate on the issue of procurement, which was touched on in a different way by Senator Regan when he spoke about tendering processes. When Government contracts that are worth more than a certain amount of money are being awarded, it is obvious that they have to be advertised in the EU Journal. We need to focus on supporting employment in this jurisdiction, as opposed to other jurisdictions, within the confines of EU rules and directives. I have noted today's media reports on the answer that was given to a question asked by Deputy Varadkar in the other House. It seems that many of the Garda uniforms that will be supplied in this country over the next few years will be manufactured abroad. I accept that they will be provided through the Irish agent that was given the contract to provide them. Many products of this nature are being manufactured in non-EU countries. In these more difficult times, we should be allowed to prioritise employment within the EU, at least, if not within the Twenty-six Counties of this jurisdiction.

Photo of Alex WhiteAlex White (Labour)
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I strongly agree with what Senator Norris said about the proposed amendment to the Defamation Bill 2006 in relation to blasphemy. The House should take careful note of what has been said by a representative of the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe. His comments, which are reported in today's newspapers, were referred to by Senator Norris. I ask this House and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to consider a proposal I would like to make. According to the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, he needs to resolve a constitutional dilemma in this area by means of legislation or by means of a constitutional amendment. I am a member of the All-Party Committee on the Constitution which recently recommended that the relevant section of the Constitution should be deleted.

Photo of David NorrisDavid Norris (Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Alex WhiteAlex White (Labour)
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Senator Regan is also a member of the all-party committee, which clearly recommended that this provision should be removed from the Constitution. That view is clearly shared across the board in these Houses. That is the correct way to proceed.

My suggestion to the Minister, through the Leader, is that if the parties in the Oireachtas agree that a series of amendments to the Constitution should be put to the people at an appropriate time, perhaps, although not necessarily, in October of this year, a referendum on the question of blasphemy should be put on that list of matters to be determined by the people on referendum day. It would be proper to remove the provision in question from the Constitution. If the Minister's comments are to be taken in good faith, it appears he believes he must do one thing or the other. He seems to be concerned about the possibility of addressing this issue by means of a constitutional amendment. We do not need to have a referendum on this issue tomorrow or the day after. It does not even need to take place this year, although it should not be put on the long finger.

In fairness, this matter has been on the table for ten years. We have lived with other interpretations of the Constitution. We have not rushed to introduce legislation to cater for the outcome of the X case, for example, although I believe we should have done so. In such circumstances, I propose that the Leader should try to secure all-party agreement to ask the Minister to address the matter of blasphemy by means of constitutional amendment at an appropriate time in the future. We should not have to deal with the legislative distraction the Minister is considering.