Seanad debates
Thursday, 27 November 2008
Council Framework Decision on Combating Terrorism: Motion
11:00 am
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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No. 1 is a motion re Council framework decision on combating terrorism.
Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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On a point of order, yesterday the Leader indicated that an error had been made on No. 1 and that the Order Paper should have read that the motion was "to be taken with debate" rather than "without debate". This morning he again indicated that the motion would be taken without debate. Which statement is correct? What is the position?
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The motion will be taken without debate.
Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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In response to a query from Senator Regan, the Leader indicated the motion would be debated today.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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While I accept the Senator's point, the purpose of the Order of Business is to raise such matters.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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I will clarify the matter, if the Chair wishes.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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The issue arose on Tuesday rather than Wednesday when a typing error was made. It would be wrong for me to anticipate on Tuesday what the impact of a committee's deliberations on Wednesday would be on the business of the House on Thursday.
Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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Did the Leader indicate on Tuesday that the motion would be taken with debate?
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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No, I have checked the Official Report since it was said to me. I could not state on Tuesday that a motion which the Whips and party leaders had received and which was due to be deliberated in committee on Wednesday would be taken in the House without debate on Thursday. I apologised for the typing error on Tuesday. The issue was not raised yesterday but on Tuesday.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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I would prefer if the Senator had raised the issue on the Order of Business.
Eugene Regan (Fine Gael)
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When I asked the question on Tuesday, I specifically highlighted that the House was passing motions without debate and that these were being passed in committee without debate before being referred back to the House, again to be taken without debate.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should raise the matter on the Order of Business.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The purpose of the Order of Business is to raise such matters.
Eugene Regan (Fine Gael)
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On Tuesday the Leader expressly stated the motion would be taken with debate on Thursday. It is not a question of a typographical error but a commitment the Leader gave.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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I call the Leader on No. 1, motion re Council framework decision on combating terrorism.
Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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We object to the Order of Business.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business has been agreed.
Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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I raised a point of order before the Order of Business was agreed.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator intervened after the Order of Business was agreed.
Eugene Regan (Fine Gael)
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A dispute has arisen on the Order of Business.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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On No. 1, I call the Leader to move the motion.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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I move:
That Seanad Éireann approves the exercise by the State of the option or discretion provided by Article 1.11 of the Treaty of Amsterdam to take part in the adoption of the following proposed measure:
a proposal for a Council Framework Decision amending Framework Decision 2002/475/JHA on combating terrorism
a copy of which measure was laid before Seanad Éireann on the 20th day of November 2008.
The Dail Divided:
For the motion: 23 (Dan Boyle, Martin Brady, Larry Butler, Ivor Callely, Ciarán Cannon, John Carty, Donie Cassidy, Maria Corrigan, Mark Daly, Déirdre de Búrca, John Ellis, John Gerard Hanafin, Cecilia Keaveney, Terry Leyden, Marc MacSharry, Brian Ó Domhnaill, Labhrás Ó Murchú, Fiona O'Malley, Ann Ormonde, Kieran Phelan, Jim Walsh, Mary White, Diarmuid Wilson)
Against the motion: 19 (Ivana Bacik, Paul Bradford, Jerry Buttimer, Paul Coghlan, Maurice Cummins, Dominic Hannigan, Fidelma Healy Eames, Alan Kelly, Nicky McFadden, Rónán Mullen, David Norris, Joe O'Toole, John Paul Phelan, Feargal Quinn, Eugene Regan, Shane Ross, Brendan Ryan, Liam Twomey, Alex White)
Tellers: Tá, Senators Déirdre de Búrca and Diarmuid Wilson; Níl, Senators Maurice Cummins and John Paul Phelan.
Question declared carried.
Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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On a point of clarification, we are not against the motion per se, but rather against it not being allowed to be discussed. That was our reason for calling for a division.
David Norris