Seanad debates
Thursday, 26 June 2008
Order of Business
10:30 am
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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There are storm clouds behind the Leader.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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We have some back-up material if anyone steps out of order.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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The Order of Business is No. 1, motion re the Employment Equality Act 1998 (Section 12)(Church of Ireland College of Education) Order 2008, back from committee, to be taken without debate at the conclusion of the Order of Business; No. 2, motion re the Planning and Development Regulations 2008, back from committee, to be taken without debate at the conclusion of No. 1; No. 3, motion re the Planning and Development (Amendment) Regulations 2008 from the Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Government, to be referred to committee without debate at the conclusion of No. 2; No. 4, statements on the Abbey Theatre move, to be taken at the conclusion of No. 3 and to conclude within 60 minutes, during which spokespersons may speak for eight minutes and other Senators for six minutes, and on which Senators may share time with the agreement of the House; and No. 5, Prison Development (Confirmation of Resolutions) Bill 2008 — All Stages, to be taken at the conclusion of No. 4.
Paschal Donohoe (Fine Gael)
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One year ago our party and the Government laid out competing visions for what should happen with the economy and the future of the country. On Tuesday, 1 May 2007 the then Minister for Finance and now Taoiseach, Deputy Brian Cowen, stated in reference to the plans Fine Gael had for the future of the economy and our intentions had we formed a Government that he intended to burn us slowly on a barbecue.
My question for the Leader is, who is taking the heat now? Given where we now stand, and the statement made by the Taoiseach last night on the need for painful corrective economic action, it is clear who is not taking the heat at the moment. It is not the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Mary Coughlan, who is paid per week what many would aspire to earn in a month. It is not the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, who upon attaining one of the most important and prestigious offices of the State is now lamenting his misfortune at getting there.
In the absence of a clear vision and statement from the Government on the state of the economy and, more importantly, a clear and detailed plan regarding what will happen, we are now operating in a vacuum. We hear rumours and leaks regarding what will happen on vital projects which will make a difference to the futures of the people we seek to represent.
I raise two issues which serve as examples of such hearsay. There was a statement in a newspaper today referring to the metro north project. The article appears with a quote from an unnamed source stating metro north will be cancelled and, in any case, is seen as something of a luxury in the first place and will be the first to go. The project referred to is currently the largest infrastructural project in Europe, yet there is a quote in the public domain referring to it as a luxury.
The second point is that the project, which is of vast scope and size, is currently in the final throes of a tendering process. The Government is leading that process to try to get the best value for money. What is the status of the project? In light of leaks of this nature, how can we be sure that the Government is confident that it has the ability to deliver the project well?
The second example I wish to give relates to the issue of public private partnership housing projects throughout Dublin, which I have raised in the House previously. The Leader has great experience and knowledge of many of the areas in which the projects are to be located. Perhaps he is able to appreciate the need to deliver these projects with real immediacy. When I was talking this morning to the leader of one of these regeneration projects, he told me that he knows of people who have had to eat their dinner off their laps for many years because the units they are living in are so small and in such poor condition.
The people associated with the projects have taken the hard decision to engage in community consultation. They are trying to create a vision of how their communities can become better places in which to live. A month has passed since it was announced that the leading tenderer for these projects might not be able to deliver them. The communities in question are no clearer on what is happening. The Government needs to step in and say what is going to happen.
Some people say that economics is the science of allocating scarce resources between competing demands. I suggest that politics is the art of doing that. My party has made it clear many times this week that the Leader of the House and his Government colleagues need to recognise what is happening to the economy. The Government should publish a detailed plan outlining what it intends to do about these problems. In the absence of such a statement, a vacuum develops in which leaks and rumours can thrive. Those who are most in need of leadership from the Government are those who are suffering most.
Joe O'Toole (Independent)
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I raised yesterday the whole question of where the economy is going. I called on the Taoiseach to make a statement on the matter. I am glad he made a few points last night. They will be of some assistance as we try to do what needs to be done. I welcome his comments to the business leaders of Ireland, some of whom earn over €1 million a year. He suggested that the lectures they have been giving to the rest of us about the need to take pay cuts represent a good example of how not to make progress.
I found it difficult to accept the remarks made by IBEC yesterday, in the absence of an examination by that organisation of what its members are paying themselves. It is not fair to try to pass all the pain to the other side of that table. We need all the economic indicators to be outlined clearly. We need to know where we stand and the scale of the problem. We need to be told what the Government's objectives are. We can then tell people what we are trying to achieve in terms of interest rates, economic growth and inflation. In such circumstances, it will be possible to get agreement on what needs to be done. If people succeed in meeting certain objectives, we will be able to share the benefits which will accrue. We will need to focus on people on lower wages, particularly the minimum wage. I am glad the Taoiseach mentioned such people. He was right to emphasise that the most vulnerable people in society have to be looked after.
Senator Donohoe was equally right to argue strongly that we should not write off projects under the national development plan on the basis of their scale. If they are necessary, they are necessary. Other projects, such as the programme of investment in computerisation in the education system, have stopped. We cannot allow infrastructural deficits to develop. I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on the matter. As Senator MacSharry said some weeks ago, if the Seanad can help in any way to make this process work, that should be facilitated. People from all sides should be encouraged to make points like those which have been made by Senator Donohoe today and Senator Fitzgerald yesterday. People on the Government side have also made worthwhile contributions. We should hear what needs to be said and engage on such issues. We need to force people to make their arguments stand up. We should look at possible solutions. If we can be of any assistance in that way, we are prepared to be helpful. If we cannot be helpful, we will walk away from it and let them do it across the road.
I wish to raise an issue I have been highlighting here for four or five years, with very little progress. I refer to sole traders who employ their spouses on a full-time basis. The workers in question pay PRSI at the A rate, but they are not entitled to many important PRSI benefits, such as the contributory old age pension. This problem affects those who are working for all sorts of sole traders, such as farmers and accountants. It is wrong. I would like a case to be taken at EU level. It has been suggested that the system operates in this way because we cannot be sure that one is telling the truth when one says that one's wife is working for one. It should be possible to check whether a person's spouse is really working for that person. If the work is genuinely being done, the person who is doing it surely should be entitled to the same employment rights as a person who does not happen to be married to the sole trader for whom he or she works.
This issue needs to be dealt with. The IFA has raised it on a number of occasions. I would like all politicians to consider it. I have raised this matter today in the context of the launch of a document yesterday by the Minister for Social and Family Affairs. While the document gives more information in this regard, it does not come close to offering a solution.
Dominic Hannigan (Labour)
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I am pleased the Minister for Transport is meeting his Northern counterpart today to discuss the mutual recognition of driving bans imposed in the North and the South. It is good to hear that they are close to agreement on the matter. I would like to highlight the related issue of the mutual recognition of penalty points. I understand that the two Ministers are some way apart on that matter. As someone who regularly travels on the M1 between Dublin and Belfast, I am reminded on a daily basis that the mutual recognition of penalty points would increase safety on our roads. I encourage the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, to do all he can to find a way forward on this issue.
As someone who has strong links with Cork, I was concerned to read in this morning's Irish Examiner about toxic waste issues in the county. My father was one of the last people to be born on the island of Haulbowline, so I am familiar with that area. The newspaper report indicates that up to 500,000 tonnes of toxic cancer-causing waste are on the island. This is a cause of real concern to the people of places like Cobh and Ringaskiddy. Residents have joined Navy officials in expressing concern about the matter. The Deputy Leader of the House has been campaigning for a clear-up to be undertaken on the island. It is particularly worrying that his party colleague, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, has sanctioned the cover-up of the waste. We need a clean-up, rather than a cover-up. I ask the Leader to invite the Minister, Deputy Gormley, to come to the House to make an immediate statement to allay the fears of the people of Cork.
Dominic Hannigan (Labour)
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The imminent publication of the national broadband strategy is eagerly awaited. We need universal broadband access if we are to shield ourselves from the storm outside. We also need to invest in education. I was disappointed to read this morning that our schools have just one computer for every ten children. It was worse to read about the age of the computers in question. Some 20% of the computers in our schools are over six years of age. We continue to expect our children to use clapped-out equipment even though the Leinster House computer policy document, a copy of which I have in my hand, states that computers are deemed to be worthless after four years. How can we expect our young people to lead the world in the future if they are not being given the learning tools they need? I would like the Minister to come to the House to update Senators on the information technology strategy for schools that is being pursued under the national development plan.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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I will now call those Senators I missed yesterday.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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I join Senator Hannigan in asking the Leader to bring the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to the House next Tuesday, as a matter of urgency, to debate the 500,000 tonnes of toxic waste in Cork about which we learned this morning. This is a matter of some concern to people in Haulbowline, Cobh and the areas surrounding the Great Island of Cork.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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We need a major debate on the matter, particularly as Cork Harbour is the pharmaceutical capital of Ireland. Have the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and the Minister, Deputy Gormley, been involved in a cover-up? For how long have they been aware of this problem? What have they done about it? Like Senator Hannigan, I believe we need a big clean-up and an investigation.
I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on the role of the Health Service Executive in light of this morning's report that there has been an increase of 14% in the number of staff in our amalgamated health service. The Leader is a man of great experience and immense knowledge. Can he explain to me and to the people how we have gone, following an increase of 18,421 administrative and management staff, to 106,272 employed in administration? There is an increase from 16,137 at the end of 2004 to 18,042 now. Can the Leader explain how an amalgamated health service that has seen an exponential growth in middle and senior management is now operating a pay freeze and cutting recruitment in front-line services? I would like to hear his response.
Nicky McFadden (Fine Gael)
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I join my colleagues, Senators Hannigan and Buttimer, in condemning the terrible situation in Cork Harbour and, like them, I request the Minister to come to the House. I attended a graduation ceremony in the National Maritime College last week and it is a fine establishment. I am aware of the huge catchment area which has 20,000 people living and working between Ringaskiddy and Cobh. It is a scandal to have toxic waste lying there, possibly harming the health of all those people.
Yesterday I wished to speak about addiction and those who are addicted to gambling. The Irish Times covered this subject comprehensively yesterday and I applaud it for doing so. I ask the Leader to organise an urgent debate with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Dermot Ahern, who is on the record as saying that he intends to liberalise our gambling laws, especially those concerning casinos. This would create a new form of legislation with regard to this serious issue in our country.
I am not a killjoy and I know that many people can gamble in moderation and enjoy it. As a nation, however, we are in denial regarding the considerable problem of gambling addiction and the heartache it causes. We do not even have a psychiatrist in this country who has expertise in this area.
Nicky McFadden (Fine Gael)
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That is a terrible indictment of this country. I am concerned about on-line gambling. The national lottery proposes to go on-line and sell tickets that way which I find to be a worrying trend. I will not say whether I am for that or against it but I believe we must have an informed debate in this House. That is what this forum is about — to debate all such issues. We have a fantastic horse breeding industry in Ireland. The ideal is to benefit from the benefits that industry brings and ensure we clamp down on the thugs.
While I was on holiday last year I was in a massive casino. It is a terrible sight to see elderly people stooped over slot machines, putting in their money and afraid to go to the toilet or to eat in case the machine paid.
Nicky McFadden (Fine Gael)
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I do not want to see that in our country. I ask that we have this urgent debate.
Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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On Tuesday there were three shootings on the streets of Dublin. Statistics show that many such crimes are carried out by people on bail. We had a referendum on bail laws. I wonder if that achieved what was intended. If not, why not? What action are we to take as legislators to ensure we get what that referendum was intended to produce?
Gangland figures in prison are orchestrating crime. A large number of mobile phones have been found in our prisons. This should be monitored regularly because we cannot have such ganglords managing crime from prison. That is the last thing this country needs now. One would think that when such criminals are in prison, that should be the end of it during their period of detention. That does not seem to be the case, however, because they are still operating.
I did not contribute to the debate yesterday although I wished to speak on the Bank of Ireland situation. For that bank to reduce staff stock issue from 6% to 3% is a most provocative and unacceptable act. It does not surprise me that staff are considering strike action as a result of that move by the bank. We should condemn the Bank of Ireland for this act and ask it to reverse its decision as a matter of urgency. It is not in the interest of its staff, of good industrial relations or of the community as a whole.
11:00 am
Pearse Doherty (Sinn Fein)
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I wish to echo a call I made last week, a call made by many Senators in previous weeks and in recent days, to have a debate on the economy. I especially call on the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Coughlan, to come to the House and speak about the current job losses taking place across the State. Members of Opposition parties, including myself, have pointed out repeatedly that this was going to happen. The Government dug its head into the sand and told us there was nothing to worry about.
Yesterday we had to sit here and listen to lectures from the Government benches telling us we must do the patriotic thing in terms of the economy. My party and I have no problem doing that. However, I ask those who call on the Opposition in this way to define what the patriotic thing is in terms of the economy, considering that this Government has presided over substantial wealth over the past decade. We can see the ways in which it has squandered it.
When I consider patriotism, I think of one of the most important documents in Ireland, the Proclamation of the Irish Republic in 1916 and what the men and women signed up to at that time. The Proclamation mentioned equal rights and opportunities, cherishing all the children equally and pursuing the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and all its parts. That is what patriotism is. The Irish economy, steered by this Government over the past ten years, has failed on those three counts. The Government has enriched those who were rich and has widened the gap between the wealthy and the poorest in the State. Infrastructure is crumbling and there is no broadband. All these problems exist and we will highlight them in a future debate.
I have called many times for a debate in this House on education. It is fitting that we should have a debate before the summer recess with the new Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, on the needs of education in this State. We see the Minister participating in the biggest cutbacks in education since the 1980s. The fact that one third of our 4,000 schools is on the schools building programme list and that the Minister has not announced such a list since the beginning of this year is appalling. Schools throughout the length and breadth of this State were promised and have received tenders——
Pearse Doherty (Sinn Fein)
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There are schools where windows are nailed shut, where rodents are taking over——
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should keep that for the debate.
Pearse Doherty (Sinn Fein)
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I appeal to the Leader to understand the severity of the situation and to ask the Minister for Education and Science to come to the House——
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator has asked the Leader for a debate and we will wait for his reply.
Pearse Doherty (Sinn Fein)
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On a separate matter, we all know that to have a strong economy we need a skilled workforce. Unfortunately, we have a downturn in the construction industry which has been highlighted. What is happening now is that those who are losing their jobs in that industry, who wish to go back to reskilling and avail of the back to education allowance, cannot do so because they must be unemployed for six months to qualify for that grant. I ask the Leader, in the light of the considerable job losses in low-skilled industries, particularly manufacturing and the construction industry, to invite the Minister for Education and Science to the House to deal with this loophole and permit those who wish to reskill to be able to avail of the back to education allowance.
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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We need a debate on the economy but it needs to be well argued and constructive. There is no doubt issues arise but it amazes me when people talk about cutbacks in education given that education expenditure increased threefold to fourfold within the past decade.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Walsh without interruption. He did not interrupt any speaker.
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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I was at a meeting in my local hospital last week in respect of which vested interests argued the case on specific issues. There were consultants, in both private and public practice, who are probably earning €500,000 per year. If circumstances are as they portray them, how come there were 60,000 people working in the health service in 1997, with an overall budget of €3.5 billion, while there are 120,000 staff this year, with a budget of €15 billion?
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The Senator should ask the former Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Micheál Martin.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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Senator Walsh's party has been in Government for the past ten years.
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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Serious issues arise regarding value for money and productivity in the public service.
Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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I keep raising these issues and hope they will comprise an important focus of our debate on the economy.
Will the Leader arrange a debate on speed limits at an early date? The roll-out of the speed cameras is moving ahead. If, when this is complete, we have not reviewed the illogical speed limits that apply in many parts of the country, there will be widespread disaffection among motorists regarding the implementation of the policy. We want a climate of compliance that ensures motorists will remain within speed limits.
I travel on a greatly improved road network, including motorways and a very high-quality dual carriageway. The high-quality dual carriageway is up to motorway standard but the 100 km/h speed limit that applied on the ordinary winding single carriageway that existed before it was constructed has not been changed. This is ludicrous. We are spending considerable amounts of capital and this is partly so the driving public, particularly commercial motorists, can benefit. Thus, we can become more competitive economically. It is an essential part of improving the economy in any case. I would like the Minister for Transport to be invited to the House to answer questions on this issue.
Seven or eight years ago, I was told by the then chief executive of the National Roads Authority that this matter would be dealt with very speedily in respect of the Arklow bypass. The authority has very highly paid executives who should be turning their attention to such issues, which are very easily resolved. Addressing them would assist in the overall development of the economy on foot of the considerable investment made under the national development plan. We want to benefit from the investment and want people to be sensible and intelligent in doing so.
Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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Given that today is International Day against Torture, will the Leader facilitate a debate in the House on the use of extraordinary rendition and the role of Shannon Airport in this appalling practice? Amnesty International is holding a special event today in Buswells Hotel, to which colleagues would all have been invited, at which a number of Irish actors will be reading from a book entitled "Poems from Guantánamo: The Detainees Speak", which contains poems written by inmates in Guantanamo Bay. This is an important event that will highlight the practice of extraordinary rendition. Amnesty International is calling on Senators and Deputies to participate in the formation of an interparliamentary group on rendition that would take up the issue and lobby the Government.
It is appropriate to debate this issue given that we heard this morning that the US Department of Homeland Security has, in an extraordinary move, requested permission to have a base at Shannon Airport for compiling data on persons on Irish private airplanes in the jurisdiction of Ireland. It is requesting unprecedented access and we should not give it. It is important that we debate this matter before the recess.
The Amnesty International event is at 11.30 a.m. in Buswells Hotel. On the way there, colleagues might consider dropping in to another event, which is being hosted by the All Party Oireachtas Interest Group on Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights, Population and Development. The event deals with population, reproductive health, environment and the millennium develop goals. It is an important event at which experts will be present to brief colleagues on the links between population growth and the fulfilment of the millennium develop goals. I would like a debate on this, if not before the recess, certainly early in the autumn. Irish development aid has an important role to play in the achievement of the millennium development goals worldwide. We need to consider the issue of population growth very seriously and determine how best we can meet the goals and facilitate reproductive rights in the developing world, particularly those of women.
Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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I call for a debate in the House and a national debate over the coming months on funding for third level education. In Ireland there is no shortage of rhetoric about the knowledge society and our aspiration to be world class. The reality, unfortunately, falls well short of the rhetoric. By most indicators, our universities are significantly constrained by comparison with leading international institutions.
On a per-student basis, real funding has been reduced by one third over the past ten years. In addition, very little money is available for the maintenance and upgrading of the physical infrastructure for third level institutions. All of this is unsustainable if there is a real objective to be world class.
Investment in education is not a tap that can be turned on or off as circumstances require. Failure to invest now will disadvantage an entire generation of people in the future.
Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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The strategy of the Government is to have a knowledge-based economy as well as an education system with a bright future. We need to devise a strategy of diverse funding and alternatives to public funding. We need to make private funding not just an idea but a reality if we want future generations educated in our world-class system.
One of the most critical questions concerns how we will compete internationally. Our aspiration is to have 70% of the second level cohort entering third level education. At present, only 60% are doing so. Some 40% of young people cannot afford to participate in third level education.
Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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They are dropping out at second level.
Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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They are paying the taxes that are paying for the 60% who participate. The system is socially unjust. I call for a serious national debate on how universities will be funded. The cream and the intellectuals of this country will want to go to Cambridge, Yale or Harvard if we do not invest in our third level sector. I thank the Cathaoirleach for his patience.
Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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I want to be associated with all the remarks on the urgent need for a debate on schools and ICT. The Taoiseach has always said he is committed to the national development plan and the roll-out of infrastructure. Critical infrastructure is being lost to schools. The Taoiseach promised us a soft landing but we now realise it was a joke. Where is his commitment to the national development plan if he can be seen to allow Batt O'Keeffe to pull information and communications technology from schools? My main reason for speaking today is a matter of national significance pertaining to public health.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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In respect of Ministers, the Senator should not use their Christian names or surnames without giving them their full title.
Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Gabh mo leithscéal. I apologise. I referred to the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, whose presence is required in the House.
My main reason for speaking today is a matter of national significance pertaining to public health. I ask the Leader to use his good offices to intervene with the Minister for Health and Children and establish urgently what is happening regarding the BCG immunisation programme for sixth class pupils nationwide. Although schools will close tomorrow, I have received calls from hundreds of children across the city and county of Galway who have not received the BCG vaccine. As the Leader is aware, tuberculosis is on the increase. However, people from Lisheenkyle national school, to name a single example, have told me in recent weeks that it has not received the BCG for three years in a row, and I have checked this out with the Health Service Executive. Something unusual is happening in this regard. Having researched the issue, I am aware there has been a shortage of the vaccine but the parents involved are very worried. I am unsure whether this is a national problem but it certainly is a problem in Galway city and county. I ask the Leader to revert with an answer by next week because I must acquire this information. How will children gain access to the BCG vaccine? As I learned this morning that this could take 15 months, it is a serious issue.
Ivor Callely (Fianna Fail)
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As today is International Day against Torture, I acknowledge and pay tribute to all those who work in this area and who highlight human rights violations. Equally, I pay tribute to a former Member of this House, Dr. Maurice Manning, who heads the Irish Human Rights Commission, together with his team. The commission has done Trojan work during its first ten years. I wish its staff, as well as everyone else who works in this area, continued success and good wishes on this special day.
I listened with interest to a number of Members who spoke in respect of a debate on the economy. I look forward to such a debate taking place. There appears to be a certain focus on industry leaders and their pay and salary scales are being cherry-picked. I recognise, appreciate and welcome those who have taken great risks and who have placed their families at great risk. They took financial risks and helped fuel the economy. Moreover, they generated wealth and contributed to the redistribution of that wealth. I would like to think that recognition will be given to such people during the debate on the economy.
Members received something of a lecture today from the Sinn Féin Member, Senator Doherty, on the squandering by Fianna Fáil of the country's money and wealth in recent years and on its failure to cherish the family or the children. If any political party is responsible for not cherishing the family or the child, it is not on this side of the House. Speaking on International Day against Torture, other people in this House, who are neither on this side of the House nor in the main Opposition parties, have questions to answer in that regard.
Ivor Callely (Fianna Fail)
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Without getting carried away, a debate took place on the economy before the previous general election and one leader was seen to have failed to have any economic policies, namely, Senator Doherty's leader.
Ivor Callely (Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Leader to obtain for me information relating to the National Treatment Purchase Fund. It is a tremendous scheme from which great numbers of people have benefited. However, some regions have not been able to tap into it.
Ivor Callely (Fianna Fail)
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While Members may know the reasons, one must try to find a solution to them. However, the problem must be outlined clearly.
Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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I request a debate on the provisions of the Government's proposed civil partnership Bill because I believe Members should discuss the Bill before it comes to the House to be considered. Even after my short time in the Seanad thus far, I have learned that by the time a Bill comes to the House, it has been pretty much done and dusted and matters have been put to bed. However, I am concerned about the serious unfairness and inequality the Government seems willing to countenance because of lazy thinking in the Bill's preparation. I heard Senator Hannigan's comments in this regard yesterday and while I respect his point of view, I am concerned by the lazy thinking, which may have been exacerbated by a certain dose of political correctness.
It seems that in the name of equality, the Government now proposes to introduce four categories of people that I can think of. The first two categories are married couples and same-sex couples, who will enjoy a range of rights. The third category is that of cohabiting couples, who will enjoy fewer rights despite the possibility that among some cohabiting couples, one party may wish to marry while the other does not. Bottom of the pile will come those who are not necessarily romantically involved but are mutually dependent and who have made sacrifices for each other. I refer to the carer who has lived for years and looked out for a loved one who may not be a blood relative but who will be obliged to pay a tax on anything he or she might inherit. It appears, to paraphrase the former Senator Martin Mansergh, who now is a Member of the other House, that the State has been rushing back into the bedroom in this regard and appears to be about to perpetrate massive inequality. Is this how we will cherish the children of the nation equally? It is time for a debate and such issues must be considered in a cool-headed way that does not give into vested interests as a prime reason but seeks to do justice on behalf of all the citizens of the nation equally. I hope such a debate will be facilitated soon.
In addition, I was glad yesterday to hear Members on all sides of the House worrying and talking about excessive regulation from Europe. We may be on the point of having a new and fresh debate about our relationship with Europe and I hope the two-hour debate held on the Lisbon treaty last week will not be the end of the matter. I heard the points made by Senator Alan Kelly of the Labour Party. He appears to seek a protocol on jam jars and labelling and listening to Senator O'Donovan——
Dominic Hannigan (Labour)
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That is incorrect. Senator Kelly said the opposite.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The eurosceptic is coming out in the Senator.
Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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I referred to a protocol that would exclude us from excessive regulation.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The eurosceptic is coming out in the Senator.
Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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Senator O'Donovan appears to be worried about eggs.
Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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He may wish to break free from the yoke of Europe completely, if Members will pardon the pun. I hope we will not do so because we need Europe and need to be good Europeans. I also hope, however, we now will have the courage to have a debate in this House.
Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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I am finishing now. There should be a debate in this House about exactly what measures we must agree with our European partners in order that Ireland can be fully integrated in Europe but also with the independence it needs to guarantee equality of life for its citizens and the right to determine certain matters which it regards to be issues for itself.
John Gerard Hanafin (Fianna Fail)
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While I would be slow to suggest regulation, I ask the Leader to write to the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food because a pressing need has arisen in respect of bio-fuels, requesting that the food part of the bio-fuel crop should be preserved and that the plant extract should be used for bio-fuel. Ireland produces absolute surpluses, as do other countries, such as America, where 30% of its productive area is being used for bio-fuels at present to produce 3% of its energy needs. At a time of world food shortages and high commodity prices in food, it is time to regulate the area in order that the food component of the bio-fuel crop is preserved and the plant extract is used for bio-fuels. This is a simple request on which Ireland could lead the world as a food-producing nation.
Eugene Regan (Fine Gael)
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The penny seems to have dropped with the Taoiseach regarding the economy. One reads of corrective action now being taken. In managing the economy, those responsible must understand it and must have experience of managing an economy in different economic circumstances. However, the Government only has experience of managing the boom. It even has failed at that, to judge from the evidence of €10 billion wasted on such projects as decentralisation and infrastructure.
John Ellis (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should specify where it was wasted.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The Government could not spend matches.
John Ellis (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator should list the projects on which it was wasted.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Regan, without interruption. There already have been calls for a debate on financial matters, so I ask the Senator to brief. I also hope to get two or three more speakers in.
Eugene Regan (Fine Gael)
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I have only started, but I will be brief. I appreciate we will be having a debate on the issue, but I would like to make a point to the Leader about the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the Minister for Finance. Where is their experience of managing an economy in difficult economic circumstances? Do these people have qualifications in economics? Do they have experience in business, banking, finance or commerce?
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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We had a fellow here in the 1980s who had all that.
Eugene Regan (Fine Gael)
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How can we have confidence in the Taoiseach or his Minister for Finance to manage the recession if they have failed to manage the boom? There is a contrast between the current Government and those of Garret FitzGerald, Alan Dukes and John Bruton, who had the qualifications and the experience of managing an economy in the kind of circumstances which exist today.
Eugene Regan (Fine Gael)
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This Government has a lack of experience and qualifications and has a very poor track record over the past ten years. How can we have confidence that it will manage the economy in this recession?
Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator is taking poetic licence with the economy and those who run it.
Feargal Quinn (Independent)
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I ask the Leader to consider having a debate on Northern Ireland. When I planned to raise this the other day, I was going to say it would be a good time to talk about the positive things because the killing has finished. Unfortunately, we all saw what happened two days ago when a young man was killed, reportedly by the INLA. I only hope that does not bring us back to the terrible years of all those killings.
I wanted a debate on Northern Ireland so we could talk about the positive things that have occurred. I read today that penalties for driving offences will be co-ordinated between Britain and Ireland, and between North and South as well. There have been benefits in food safety, with the holding of an all-Ireland forum in that area, as well as in tourism. There are so many win-win situations that it is worthwhile considering such a debate. In the past, we tried to get an agreement on penalty points, but that has not occurred yet. Those of us who know County Louth well can see the Northern cars increase their speed as they cross the Border because there is no danger of obtaining penalty points in the South. I would love to see a debate on Northern Ireland. It should be a positive debate, in spite of the killing that took place the other day.
Paudie Coffey (Fine Gael)
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I listened with interest to the views of Senators on the economy and the challenges that lie ahead. It is important we can express our views. I know the Leader takes those views on board and it is important we are constructive in our debate on the economy. Our track record on this side of the House attests to that. We have always been constructive in protecting the economy and we have stood by the State on economic issues.
We are now facing challenges in climate change, given the demanding targets we have set ourselves for the next ten years. We need to debate those targets and the impact they will have on our economy. Three areas that contribute to greenhouse gas emissions in this country are transport, agriculture and industry. We need to get down to the fine detail on what impact emission reductions will have on those three areas. Senator Donohoe already mentioned the metro north project. If that is to go down the tubes, it will have an impact on how we are going to achieve our greenhouse emissions. We will continue to have high emissions from oil-burning vehicles.
The economy is heavily dependent on agriculture, which has huge potential for growth due to food security issues. Our agricultural sector contributes more than 20% of our total greenhouse gas emissions. We cannot put our agricultural sector at a disadvantage if we are to cut our emissions in this area because the EU depends on our food produce. Greenhouse gas emissions from the agricultural sector across the EU are only 9% of the total amount, which is not too large. I would hate to see the agricultural sector in Ireland under threat owing to these targets. That is the type of detail we need to discuss in any debate on our economy. Food security is a significant issue, so we must also take that into account.
The Taoiseach heads up the Cabinet committee on climate change, so it would be interesting to hear the detail of the negotiations of Irish team, be they carbon credits or greenhouse gas emissions. I hope the impact on our economy will be taken into account in any debate on this issue.
Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
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I would like the Leader to arrange a debate on the funding of local authorities and the proposed Green Paper on those authorities. The majority of local authorities are cash strapped, so there is an urgent need for a debate. In the aftermath of the Lisbon treaty, will there be 13 seats or 12 seats at stake in the next European elections?
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Senators Donohoe, O'Toole, Doherty, Walsh, Regan and Coffey all called for a debate on the economy. I have already said that we will have a lengthy debate on this issue before the summer recess. The OECD report will be discussed in the House next Wednesday at 3 p.m. There is no difficulty in giving as much time as is required to discuss this issue before the summer recess and to let the Government hear the views of the Senators. Some very experienced Senators played a major role in forming the national understanding 21 years ago. The challenge over the summer will be getting a new agreement, and the two most important words are stability and certainty. That is where we need to go over the next three to five years. I wish everyone well in their task of getting Ireland out of this global downturn.
There is much frustration in the House as Senators from all sides want to see something that will give us hope for the future. The Government is awaiting the figures for the first six months which will be published later this week. They cannot be good, but we have been here before and have presided over a great change in our country. We have seen substantial spending on roads, education and health and we know that we cannot continue if the money is not coming in.
I will not score points because I am too long in the House to know that those who made a contribution——
Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Sounds like a bumpy ride ahead.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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He is in trouble. The Leader is in denial.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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I will say this. I congratulate the Irish people for their foresight and wisdom in returning a Government that delivered to them when it was in power.
Nicky McFadden (Fine Gael)
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What would it be like if there was a general election in the morning?
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Imagine what it was like in this House when interest rates were at 17%, inflation at 15%, 50,000 people a year were emigrating——
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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It was the Leader's Government. He can bring in Ray MacSharry. He did not offer many criticisms back then.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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——and the national debt doubled between 1983 and 1987.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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He did not have many criticisms then.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Buttimer should allow the Leader to reply.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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We can go back to 1977 and Jack Lynch.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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The Senator will recall reading about VAT on shoes when he was going to school.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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On the Order of Business now, please.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance cannot agree this morning on what to do.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Buttimer, please refrain and allow the Leader to respond to the Order of Business.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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The former Senator Dino Cregan, a very responsible, decent and honourable Member of this House for many years, who played a major role in having Senator Buttimer elected here, would have heard from his generation when Fine Gael reduced the old age pension by 25% when in power at one time. So we do not want to change——-
Paschal Donohoe (Fine Gael)
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That is right, look into the past. See how the Leader's Government handles things.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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I just want to give the House the benefit of being fair to all sides.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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We do not want history lessons, either.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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If they are going to give it, they must also learn how to take it.
Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael)
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We shall give it all right, do not worry, and we can take it, no bother.
Paudie Coffey (Fine Gael)
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We can take it, but we can give it, too.
Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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Will the Leader please deal with the economy?
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Donohoe, who is very level headed, listens to the Leader when he asks serious questions, and I compliment him on that. I know he has a great future and I look forward to serving very many years with the Senator in the House. I hope some of his colleagues take example from his sense of responsibility, and how he conducts himself here.
As regards Senators calling for a debate on housing, I am pleased to say there will be a special debate in the House with the new Minister of State with responsibility for housing, Deputy Michael Finneran, on Tuesday week, 8 July. This is a very important issue for discussion and I am responding to the requests made of me in this area.
Senator O'Toole dealt with the question of sole traders, including people who are employed and married to traders. This is an important issue, particularly as regards everyone in a family making a contribution towards keeping the business going. I fully agree with the sentiments expressed by the Senator and we should make every effort to have this included in our pre-budget submission in September or October, when we come back for the autumn session.
Senator Hannigan pointed out that the Minister for Transport was meeting his counterpart in Northern Ireland and we want to wish him well. The Minister, like the Senator, comes from the royal county. We certainly wish the Minister well in his deliberations there today.
Senator Buttimer expressed his great concern as regards the toxic waste in Cork. This is a serious issue and we support the call of all Senators on the Minister to hear what can be done. I shall endeavour to have this further clarified in the House before the summer recess. As regards the points made on the importance of broadband in schools and the entire roll-out strategy, this is one of the greatest challenges facing the country and none of us is satisfied with the progress to date. That is to put the position on the record and I have no difficulty in trying to have this debated also. Time will be of the essence, however, because there are so many serious issues to be addressed, such as the economy and the fishing industry, which must be discussed in the House. I now have a timeframe for the housing debate, and I also want to inform the House that we shall have statements on Zimbabwe in the Seanad next week. Many people are seriously concerned about this, but I do not want to say too much because the election is taking place there today.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Senators will have an opportunity to express their views next week on the serious difficulty in Africa. Senator Buttimer outlined startling figures regarding the HSE, given this modern age of computerisation. We shall have another debate on the HSE as soon as possible. Senator McFadden called for a debate on gambling addiction and the changes that are being contemplated by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform as regards the gambling laws. This is a timely call and I have no difficulty in arranging for such a debate to take place.
With regard to matters that are relatively important but which we will not have time to slot into the diary for the next two weeks, perhaps those parties with access to Private Members' time might include some of them under that slot.
Senator Cummins called for a debate on crime, particularly in relation to experiences in recent days. I support the Senator in his call, and compliment him on highlighting the big challenge to society. I also want to compliment the Garda Síochána on what it is doing to enhance, help and assist society in this regard. Senator Cummins has been very strong and forceful in this area as well. We shall have the debate on crime very soon, if at all possible.
On the issues highlighted by Senator Cummins regarding the Bank of Ireland, I hope all sides can reach a successful conclusion. Consultation and negotiation has got to be the order of the day and strike action should not be contemplated, if at all possible. I wish the hard working and dedicated staff, which the bank has had down through the years, well in bringing this to a successful conclusion.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Doherty highlighted a very important issue as regards reskilling and upskilling. A few weeks ago I made known my views to the House on the challenges facing FÁS. If there is a six months delay before a person can qualify for a back to education allowance, this should be examined immediately, as should the 75%-25% funding. It should be 100% funding because if companies have their backs to the wall in terms of keeping their businesses going, they certainly need all the assistance they can get. If FÁS has got a significant allocation for retraining and upskilling between now and 2020, now is the time to make some of it available. In my little village, Castlepollard, almost 600 people are now unemployed, which is a serious statistic in north west Meath, where there is very little happening as regards jobs. As Senator McFadden knows, we used to have Bord na Móna, the ESB and many great employers, but they are no longer there. Everyone needs to play his or her part. The need for reskilling and retraining must be considered as a matter of urgency, as was pointed out to the House this morning. I urge Senators to make this part of the discussion on the economy next week to ascertain if matters can be changed without further delay.
Senator Walsh referred to the national development plan and spoke about the need for national speed limits to be updated. The National Roads Authority is responsible for this and it is not a major job. Once the cameras come into operation, if everyone is seen to be playing his or her part, I am sure motorists will be only too willing to do likewise. Having 40 mph speed limits on a dual carriageway is unacceptable. In some places the speed limit is 30 mph, or just under 40 kph. This is unacceptable, since a dual carriage should have a 100 kph limit, and then everyone can play his or her part in complying with the speed limits.
As today is International Day against Torture, Senators Callely and Bacik called for a debate on rendition. I can agree to that as well as to setting aside time for a debate on overseas development aid. Senator Mary White outlined to the House in some detail her serious concerns about funding for third level education. It is time for this to be reviewed, particularly in areas where jobs are to be found, such as science. Ireland must be made more attractive for the brains of Europe to be educated here and to hold on to their intellectual property rights.
Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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The Government is not committed to such a project because it is cutting ICT funding for schools.
Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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The Government is simply not committed to that.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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We are the envy of Europe in job creation.
Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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The Government is not committed because it is cutting ICT in schools.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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Senator Healy Eames, please allow the Leader without interruption.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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A Chathaoirligh, if I have to name someone in the House, I will. We have asked Senators to understand when they ask a question, we must respond. As former Chairman of the committee on enterprise and small business, I had the experience of travelling practically the world. I am giving the House the benefit of that experience.
To me, the greatest transformation in technology is the Blackberry device. It was created by two young people in Waterloo University, 25 miles outside of Toronto. They, in turn, have established a campus which offers the intellectual property rights in perpetuity to the innovators and creators of new technologies. It has the highest success rate in America and Canada——
Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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We want Irish people to do that.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Senator to resume her seat.
Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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——we are having a denial of the current economic situation.
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Senator to resume her seat and allow the Leader to reply on the Order of Business.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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If we can have that success and have Ireland as the base for intellectual property rights to be retained by the institutes of technology. These institutes, such as those in Letterkenny, Carlow, Athlone and Sligo, have been the bedrock of educating the poor man's child and providing the opportunity for third level education which most of us never had.
Fidelma Healy Eames (Fine Gael)
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The Leader has my full support on that.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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On a point of information to the House, Senators may not interrupt the Leader in his responses on the Order of Business.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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It has not been known before. It crept in during the last Seanad and was certainly not there before that.
Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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The Leader should tell that to his constituency colleague.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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I believe there is a tremendous window of opportunity in the technology sector which Enterprise Ireland supports. We should explore the possibility of following the same course with intellectual property rights as Waterloo University for institutes of technology in the whole island of Ireland.
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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I commend Senator Mary White on bringing this to the attention of the House.
I agree with Senator Healy Eames that the BCG vaccine is a serious matter and I will take it up with the Minister for Health and Children after the Order of Business. I will return to the Senator when I hear further on it.
Senator Callely called for a debate on the National Treatment Purchase Fund. I have no difficulty in facilitating the Senator's request in this.
Senator Mullen called for a debate on civil partnership. I have no difficulty in having time set aside for this. The Senator could ask Senator O'Toole to take it on the Independents' Private Members' time before the recess.
Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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I do not have that option. Would Fianna Fáil oblige me by bringing it forward?
Donie Cassidy (Fianna Fail)
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Fianna Fáil has Private Members' business in the final week but I do not know which grouping has it next week.
Senator Hanafin made a good suggestion for a debate on bio-fuels and the opportunities for alternative energy supplies. With the agreement of the Whips, Fianna Fáil could have this debate in its Private Members' time in the final sitting week before the summer recess.
Senator Quinn called for a debate on Northern Ireland which I will try to facilitate at the earliest possible time.
Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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On a point of order, I also asked for a debate on Europe. Can that provide for?
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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A point of order can only be made on a procedural matter.
Paschal Donohoe (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Leader for responding to our request for a debate on the economy. He said the debate would take place next Wednesday and would be on the recent OECD report.
Paschal Donohoe (Fine Gael)
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Next Wednesday the Government will publish the Exchequer returns.
Paschal Donohoe (Fine Gael)
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I suggest next Wednesday's debate centres on the Government's view on the economy as opposed that of the OECD.
Rónán Mullen (Independent)
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What about the debate on Europe I requested?
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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No, I am dealing with the Order of Business.
Dominic Hannigan (Labour)
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Will the Leader confirm the Seanad will not be moving this year?
Pat Moylan (Fianna Fail)
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My understanding is that the Seanad will not be moving this year. I will have an official statement on the matter for every Member as quickly as possible.
Dominic Hannigan (Labour)
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So we are safe physically for the next year. It will not fall down on us.