Joe O'Toole (Independent)

I raised yesterday the whole question of where the economy is going. I called on the Taoiseach to make a statement on the matter. I am glad he made a few points last night. They will be of some assistance as we try to do what needs to be done. I welcome his comments to the business leaders of Ireland, some of whom earn over €1 million a year. He suggested that the lectures they have been giving to the rest of us about the need to take pay cuts represent a good example of how not to make progress.

I found it difficult to accept the remarks made by IBEC yesterday, in the absence of an examination by that organisation of what its members are paying themselves. It is not fair to try to pass all the pain to the other side of that table. We need all the economic indicators to be outlined clearly. We need to know where we stand and the scale of the problem. We need to be told what the Government's objectives are. We can then tell people what we are trying to achieve in terms of interest rates, economic growth and inflation. In such circumstances, it will be possible to get agreement on what needs to be done. If people succeed in meeting certain objectives, we will be able to share the benefits which will accrue. We will need to focus on people on lower wages, particularly the minimum wage. I am glad the Taoiseach mentioned such people. He was right to emphasise that the most vulnerable people in society have to be looked after.

Senator Donohoe was equally right to argue strongly that we should not write off projects under the national development plan on the basis of their scale. If they are necessary, they are necessary. Other projects, such as the programme of investment in computerisation in the education system, have stopped. We cannot allow infrastructural deficits to develop. I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on the matter. As Senator MacSharry said some weeks ago, if the Seanad can help in any way to make this process work, that should be facilitated. People from all sides should be encouraged to make points like those which have been made by Senator Donohoe today and Senator Fitzgerald yesterday. People on the Government side have also made worthwhile contributions. We should hear what needs to be said and engage on such issues. We need to force people to make their arguments stand up. We should look at possible solutions. If we can be of any assistance in that way, we are prepared to be helpful. If we cannot be helpful, we will walk away from it and let them do it across the road.

I wish to raise an issue I have been highlighting here for four or five years, with very little progress. I refer to sole traders who employ their spouses on a full-time basis. The workers in question pay PRSI at the A rate, but they are not entitled to many important PRSI benefits, such as the contributory old age pension. This problem affects those who are working for all sorts of sole traders, such as farmers and accountants. It is wrong. I would like a case to be taken at EU level. It has been suggested that the system operates in this way because we cannot be sure that one is telling the truth when one says that one's wife is working for one. It should be possible to check whether a person's spouse is really working for that person. If the work is genuinely being done, the person who is doing it surely should be entitled to the same employment rights as a person who does not happen to be married to the sole trader for whom he or she works.

This issue needs to be dealt with. The IFA has raised it on a number of occasions. I would like all politicians to consider it. I have raised this matter today in the context of the launch of a document yesterday by the Minister for Social and Family Affairs. While the document gives more information in this regard, it does not come close to offering a solution.