Seanad debates

Thursday, 17 October 2002

10:30 am

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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I call the Leader to move No. 1 and Nos. 2 to 13, inclusive, will be taken at the same time for the purposes of debate.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I move:

(1)(a) That a Select Committee consisting of 4 members of Seanad Éireann shall be appointed to be joined with a Select Committee of Dáil Éireann to form the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business to consider–

(i) such public affairs administered by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment as it may select, including, in respect of Government policy, bodies under the aegis of that Department;

(ii) such matters of policy for which the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment is officially responsible as it may select;

(iii) such related policy issues as it may select concerning bodies which are partly or wholly funded by the State or which are established or appointed by Members of the Government or by the Oireachtas;

(iv) such Statutory Instruments made by the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas as it may select;

(v) such proposals for EU legislation and related policy issues as may be referred to it from time to time, in accordance with Standing Order 65(4);

(vi) the strategy statement laid before each House of the Oireachtas by the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment pursuant to section 5(2) of the Public Service Management Act, 1997, and the Joint Committee shall be so authorised for the purposes of section 10 of that Act;

(vii) such annual reports or annual reports and accounts, required by law and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas, of bodies specified in paragraphs 1(a)(i) and (iii), and the overall operational results, statements of strategy and corporate plans of these bodies, as it may select,

Provided that the Joint Committee shall not, at any time, consider any matter relating to such a body which is, which has been, or which is, at that time, proposed to be considered by the Committee of Public Accounts pursuant to the Orders of Reference of that Committee and/or the Comptroller and Auditor General (Amendment) Act, 1993;

Provided further that the Joint Committee shall refrain from inquiring into in public session, or publishing confidential information regarding, any such matter if so requested either by the body concerned or by the Minister for Enterprise Trade and Employment; and

(viii) such other matters as may be jointly referred to it from time to time by both Houses of the Oireachtas, and shall report thereon to both Houses of the Oireachtas.

(b) The quorum of the Joint Committee shall be five, of whom at least one shall be a member of Dáil Éireann and one a member of Seanad Éireann.

(c) The Joint Committee shall have the powers defined in Standing Order 65(1) to (9) inclusive.

(2) The Chairman of the Joint Committee shall be a member of Dáil Éireann.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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Are we having a debate on these motions?

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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If the House wishes to have a debate on the motions, the debate would be limited to contributions of six minutes from spokespersons from each group. I understand this could be put with the Order of Business but if the House wishes to have a debate we can do so. We are taking them all together.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Independent)
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Is the Leader saying one person from each group can speak for six minutes and that is it?

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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That is what I am proposing. If the House decides otherwise that is all right.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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There are not that many people who want to speak on this but there is an issue here. It is not the subject matter but a technical issue. If it is agreeable I suggest speakers get six minutes.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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We all recognise that it is vitally important when we establish these committees that they are established with people who want to make them work, who attend meetings regularly and who contribute to the committees. In recent years we have seen an enormous amount of work processed by some committees while some committees have not done a lot of work.

There is a problem in relation to the numbers proposed by the Dáil – as Senator O'Toole said, we are left with a situation where there is a difficulty in filling places. The selection of four Senators will leave a problem, as I understand the Government will have two automatic places and the Opposition will have two. The Fine Gael group has 15 Senators and there are 13 committees proposed. As we are entitled to one place as of right on committees, two of our Members will not be members of any committee. That is a difficulty for us, as in some areas of responsibility two Departments have been brought together and our spokespersons in those areas may not automatically be members of a committee because we have only one place as of right. That is our difficulty with this. Each Fine Gael Senator cannot automatically be a member of a committee. If the Government wants to give us places we will accept them, but that is not likely to happen.

On the general point of whether it is good business for this to arrive on the Order Paper without a full and frank discussion beforehand, I agree with Senator O'Toole. There should have been a debate prior to this, possibly at the Committee on Procedures and Privileges, which would have allowed all the groups to make a contribution before this formulation was produced on the Order Paper. The current formula of four Members creates difficulties not just for the Labour and Independent benches but for us. Some form of negotiation should take place now so that all Members who wish to make a contribution can do so.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the establishment of the committees. I note the reduction in membership from five to four and from 15 to 11. I do not know the rationale for this change but I believe there are far too many joint committees. I attended these committees when I was a Minister and I am aware that it is sometimes very difficult to achieve a quorum. Many committees have been delayed or cancelled because of the lack of a quorum. If every Member of this House could be on just one committee, that would be quite adequate. Each person could then work diligently on the committee and attend all the meetings. There is an abundance of committees. I suggest that arrangements be made for substitution.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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For the information of the House, there is a substitution arrangement.

Photo of Terry LeydenTerry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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As you know, a Chathaoirligh, I am new to this House. I have just returned after nine and a half years in the wilderness and I am acquainting myself with all the details. I believe a substitution arrangement would be quite adequate. It is sometimes difficult to arrange a quorum for committee meetings. There are great demands on the time of both Deputies and Senators and it is quite enough to be at the plenary sessions of this House or the other House. In the circumstances, I suggest that membership of one committee per Member would be quite adequate. The substitution arrangement could be used where Members have an interest in a certain area.

The leader of the Fine Gael group in this House should be quite happy with the number of committees. I am sure he will have enough Members to attend the committees, which is the most important point.

I agree with Senator Quinn's suggestion for a debate in the House on the annual reports of State organisations and subsidiary organisations. These may be debated in committee but as the Leader said it is a separate issue when it comes to retrospective discussion. The report on fluoridation deals with a subject of enormous importance for the health and well-being of the Irish people. This issue must be debated and discussed and decisions need to be taken. The jury is out. I am delighted that Senator Quinn has made that suggestion.

The committee system is very worthwhile but it requires dedicated attendance by Members. I urge Members who are selected for committees to make an effort to attend all the sittings.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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I remind Members that this is purely a technical discussion and issues need to be examined. There is a double fault line. I will speak about the positive aspects first. The proposal for substitution originated in this House and it has worked very well. The committees now match up with a Government Department and that has been evolving—

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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Or two Departments.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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—yes, or two Departments. There is a clear line of responsibility and the names of the committees make it far easier for Members to understand which Minister will be dealing with each committee.

I now come to the down side. This may not be a popular opinion but for those of us who are responsible for ensuring a quorum at committees it is a bigger problem to get people to attend committee meetings than it is to get them appointed to committees. I am a person who had to do that job time and again. It is nobody's fault. People join committees with the best will in the world to attend the meetings. Attendance is very important. I can see that there may have been a good reason why the number for a quorum was reduced.

I agree with Senator Hayes that some people will not sit on some of the core committees and that is not good for Parliament. It is not the intention on this side of the House to slow down or cramp the development of these committees. However, I wish to single out the foreign affairs committee. Every week in this House the Order Paper will have an item on foreign affairs relating to Iraq, the Middle East or Asia. In the last Seanad on both sides of the House there were experts with an abiding interest in some part of the world. Many Senators are highly informed and have a lot to offer on the subject. The foreign affairs committee is an example of a committee which could do with more members. The one size fits all approach is completely wrong.

I do not wish to block this motion today but I ask the Leader or a committee of the House or the Committee on Procedure and Privileges to talk to the Members of the other House. It is a certainty about the Dáil that in terms of looking after its own business, it needs minding. They cannot be let out on their own and that is the truth. I can guarantee that this was done by a committee clerk somewhere. I will stake my reputation on it. I am long enough around the Houses to know how these things happen. It was the Members of the other House who allowed the post office to be closed. They were the people who allowed themselves to be restricted in the number of visitors they could bring in at any one time, simply because the Superintendent of the day stepped into the Committee on Procedure and Privileges and put it in at the bottom of the agenda under Any Other Business. These things happen unnoticed.

In order to solve all our difficulties I suggest we get agreement in principle that not all committees need to be restricted to eleven plus four and that a number of committees should be of the larger size, 16 plus six or whatever number it was previously, to allow for participation by additional Members.

It is not my intention to table an amendment but I believe it would make sense that the foreign affairs or European affairs committees should be extended in size to allow a more comprehensive contribution. It is a fair and appropriate way to resolve a technical difficulty and I ask for the support of all sides of the House.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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I call Senator Dardis.

Derek McDowell (Labour)
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May I contribute now?

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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No. The Senator is next after Senator Dardis.

John Dardis (Progressive Democrats)
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This is not the first time I find myself in agreement with Senator O'Toole.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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The voice of sanity.

John Dardis (Progressive Democrats)
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There are several issues to do with the manner in which committees are formed. In the case of joint committees which are made up of Members from both Houses then there has to be some overall co-ordination. It is a different matter when it is a select committee of this House. It is then totally within the reserve of this House and it should be dealt with solely by this House.

I do not think it is possible to have one for everyone in the audience, so to speak. It is not the correct approach. It creates difficulties for smaller parties. In the last Seanad I was on the Committee on Procedure and Privileges, the Committee on Finance and the Public Service, the joint committee on SMI, the All-Party Committee on the Constitution and the committee on Members' interests.

Photo of Joe O'TooleJoe O'Toole (Independent)
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The Senator was lucky. Some of us were not allowed.

John Dardis (Progressive Democrats)
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I do not wish to re-open that debate. I remember that the All-Party Committee on the Constitution had hearings on the question of abortion which went on for a long time. Senator O'Toole and I were involved in a sub-committee of the finance and the public service committee which dealt with ethics and the whole question of the Blue Book. It was an onerous commitment. It has been my experience that the enthusiasm of Members to be on committees is matched only by their reluctance to attend when the committees meet. We need to be careful about wanting to be on committees since there is an attendant obligation to attend meetings. That is not to say there should not be substitutes. People can be unavailable for good reasons and substitutes should be provided for.

We regulate our own affairs but in the case of joint committees, it is appropriate that the other House has an input and there must be a rational way to deal with that. It is necessary that there should be enough committees for the various Departments because the committee work of the other House is increasingly being done in select committee. That is a good way to do it because such work is done much better in that smaller and more intimate environment. That has to be taken into account and is one of the reasons each Department needs a select committee of the other House to deal with Committee Stages of Bills.

Derek McDowell (Labour)
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I echo what others have said but would like to take it a little further. It seems the order handed down to us does not, effectively, recognise the position and the role of Senators on the committees. It is right that the number of Deputies on legislative committees should be fixed; to reflect the balance in the other House, that must be the case. Senators attend merely to make an input, to discuss, to debate and to hold to account chief executives of State bodies and others. They do not have a role in terms of legislation so it does not matter whether there are four or six Senators on a committee. During my time in these Houses I have not been at a committee meeting at which there were too many Members so as to make it unwieldy. That does not happen.

We all know there are some committees which are more attractive and interesting than others. Senator Ross whispered in my ear a few moments ago that, apparently, it will be necessary for us to decide whether he or I should be on the finance committee. This is an appalling vista. I am sure the Cathaoirleach will appreciate that we represent totally different viewpoints and the committee would benefit from having both viewpoints represented on it. It could not be said Senator Ross represents the Labour group or that I would look to represent his viewpoint.

Given the number of committees, there should be flexibility not in terms of the number of Deputies – there are legislative reasons that should be fixed – but in terms of Senators so that the number might range from four to six or seven, which would in no way inhibit the workings of the committee.

Photo of Labhrás Ó MurchúLabhrás Ó Murchú (Fianna Fail)
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Tá suim agam sa chóras aistriúcháin a bhí ag na coistí mar is cuimhin liom go dtí seo go raibh deacrachtaí teichniúla ann, go mór mór sa choiste a bhíonn ag plé cúrsaí Gaeltachta, cúrsaí cultúir, cúrsaí ealaíona agus cúrsaí Gaeilge. Bheadh daoine ann agus bheadh leisce orthu Gaeilge a labhairt toisc go mbeadh daoine i lathair nach raibh cumas na Gaeilge acu agus ní bheadh córas aistriúcháin ar fáil. Tá súil agam go mbeidh córas aistriúcháin ann agus go mbeidh sé éifeachtach. Tá sé thar a bheith deacair cúrsaí Gaeltachta a phlé gan bheith in ann na cúrsaí sin a phlé as Gaeilge.

I am interested in the translation service because we have had a lot of technical difficulties there. When dealing with cultural matters and matters relating to the Irish language and the Gaeltacht, many Members would wish to speak in Irish but would be a bit reluctant to do so because others might not be able to follow the debate. I hope that problem will be corrected in the coming session.

Michael Finucane (Fine Gael)
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When I was assistant Government Whip I, along with an America intern, conducted an analysis of different committees, particularly attendance at committees. It was a revelation in regard to Members who did and did not attend. As Senator Leyden said, there are too many committees. In many cases, Members attend committee meetings in the hope of getting a certain amount of publicity but the interest of the media in the majority of committees is none existent.

I was Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts and there was interest in that committee because it dealt with reports of the Comptroller and Auditor General which quite often dealt with contentious issues. Of course, the media were in attendance because they thought the subjects would be stimulating for their readership. Lack of publicity is a great deterrent to many people who do not attend committee meetings. It is not a problem of too many Members but of a lack of Members, in many cases. The reason Members attended the Committee of Public Accounts was because of a rota system whereby two Members would lead off every week on a specific issue. Those two Members would stay until the end of the meeting to ask the pertinent questions. There is no similar rota in the committee system.

Despite the voluminous legislation passing through committees, such as the Competition Bill, and the amount of time spent at a committee by Opposition Members, there would be nothing in the media, either on television or in the newspapers. It is probably heartrending for Members who put in the maximum effort, and it happens to Ministers as well. There is no publicity. That is one of the greatest problems of the multiplicity of committees. If we had fewer committees, there were be greater quality in regard to contributions. We have erred on the side of quantity rather than quality.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Even in that short space of time, the debate has been useful. To pick up on Senator Finucane's point which echoed remarks by Senator Leyden, there can be two points of view, that is, that there are too many committees all chasing different issues without any resultant outcome or that there should be a smaller number of committees which would tackle serious issues. I notice that on Channel 4 and on the BBC news every evening, particularly on "Newsnight", the reports of the committees of the Houses of Parliament in the UK are given considerable coverage and are taken seriously. One may note that later on, the UK Government has a change of policy on an issue based on a report from a committee. We are coming later to the committee system. I remember when I first became a Member of the other House, Deputy John Bruton was in charge of setting up committees. He did a good job and got money for them from the then Government.

There remains, as Senator Finucane said, a stubborn resistance to dealing with the issues covered by the committees on a daily basis. That leads to a sense of despair among Member attending as to whether it is worthwhile doing so. Senator Brian Hayes said there were not enough Members and that was followed on by Senator Dardis and Senator McDowell—

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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On a point of information, I made the point that we had a particular problem because some of the committees have amalgamated and key spokespersons cannot—

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I understand that. Senator O'Toole said committees should be looked at individually. There is a separation between joint committees and select committees. I had experience of spending long hours at the transport committee and it was only when a "sexy" topic came up, such as the mini-CTC, that anybody turned up to report on it, yet the other work done by Members went unremarked on. I suggest a sub-committee of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges so Members may discuss this matter. We would, however, need to hold it immediately because these motions have passed through the other Houses without debate.

Senator O'Toole said he saw the hand of civil servants in this. I understand there were contacts with the director of committees who was doing his job – making recommendations. Matters were not just accepted and there was much consultation with the Whips Office in the other House. What came out of that was based on joint experiences.

Senator Dardis made one point that is true. Many times at the committee of which I was a member we had to ring the bells to get a quorum and committee members to attend to conduct business. I am not blaming them because they may have had to participate in a vote in this House, for example, or were engaged elsewhere, but it was a factor. Frequently we had to ring the bells to get a quorum and frequently could not find enough members to begin. Committees are very useful when properly conducted and properly peopled. I, therefore, propose that we have a meeting of the sub-committee of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges immediately to consider the matter.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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And that Nos. 1 to 13, inclusive, be left on the Order Paper.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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The Dáil will decide these matters next week.

(Interruptions.)

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I understand the committees will be formed and members nominated early next week, perhaps on Tuesday.

Derek McDowell (Labour)
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Will the Leader not go back and say to the Government Whip the Seanad would like an input—

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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Let us do it today, let us have our meeting, but that is up to the Cathaoirleach.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Fine Gael)
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While I understand the necessity to establish the committees – there is nothing to stop the select committees of the House being established – would it not be more appropriate to leave Nos. 1 to 13, inclusive, on the Order Paper until the Committee on Procedure and Privileges has met so as to inform the plenary session as to the outcome, if any, of our deliberations?

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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As I understand it, the chairmen, whips and members of the committees have been nominated and will be announced very early next week. As we can bleat away and do not want to be left out of the equation, I suggest we have a meeting immediately.

Derek McDowell (Labour)
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In effect, that means that if we agree to a system, we are stuck with it. I am not looking to be obstructive, but if possible, it would be better for us to delay until we next meet, until after we have had a meeting of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges in the meantime and tried to secure agreement from the Government Chief Whip to change the representation of the Seanad on the joint committees.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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They will be announced early next week. We can either sit here and bleat or be part of it.

John Dardis (Progressive Democrats)
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Perhaps we are entering into the realms of conversation rather than debate. The most appropriate thing to do would be to form the committees. If the number increases from four to five, then the extra members can be added by way of resolution.

Rory Kiely (Fianna Fail)
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That is what I suggested.

Question put and agreed to.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I move:

(1) (a) That a Select Committee consisting of 4 members of Seanad Éireann shall be appointed to be joined with a Select Committee of Dáil Éireann to form the Joint Committee on Transport to consider–

(i) such public affairs administered by the Department of Transport as it may select, including, in respect of Government policy, bodies under the aegis of that Department;

(ii) such matters of policy for which the Minister for Transport is officially responsible as it may select;

(iii) such related policy issues as it may select concerning bodies which are partly or wholly funded by the State or which are established or appointed by Members of the Government or by the Oireachtas;

(iv) such Statutory Instruments made by the Minister for Transport and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas as it may select;

(v) such proposals for EU legislation and related policy issues as may be referred to it from time to time, in accordance with Standing Order 65(4);

(vi) the strategy statement laid before each House of the Oireachtas by the Minister for Transport pursuant to section 5(2) of the Public Service Management Act, 1997, and the Joint Committee shall be so authorised for the purposes of section 10 of that Act;

(vii) such annual reports or annual reports and accounts, required by law and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas, of bodies specified in paragraphs 1(a)(i) and (iii), and the overall operational results, statements of strategy and corporate plans of these bodies, as it may select;

Provided that the Joint Committee shall not, at any time, consider any matter relating to such a body which is, which has been, or which is, at that time, proposed to be considered by the Committee of Public Accounts pursuant to the Orders of Reference of that Committee and/or the Comptroller and Auditor General (Amendment) Act, 1993;

Provided further that the Joint Committee shall refrain from inquiring into in public session, or publishing confidential information regarding, any such matter if so requested either by the body concerned or by the Minister for Transport;

(viii) such other matters as may be jointly referred to it from time to time by both Houses of the Oireachtas,

and shall report thereon to both Houses of the Oireachtas.

(b) The quorum of the Joint Committee shall be five, of whom at least one shall be a member of Dáil Éireann and one a member of Seanad Éireann.

(c) The Joint Committee shall have the powers defined in Standing Order 65(1) to (9) inclusive.

(2) The Chairman of the Joint Committee shall be a member of Dáil Éireann.

Question put and agreed to.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I move:

(1) (a) That a Select Committee consisting of 4 members of Seanad Éireann shall be appointed to be joined with a Select Committee of Dáil Éireann to form the Joint Committee on Communications, Marine and Natural Resources to consider—

(i) such public affairs administered by the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources as it may select, including, in respect of Government policy, bodies under the aegis of that Department;

(ii) such matters of policy for which the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources is officially responsible as it may select;

(iii) such related policy issues as it may select concerning bodies which are partly or wholly funded by the State or which are established or appointed by Members of the Government or by the Oireachtas;

(iv) such Statutory Instruments made by the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas as it may select;

(v) such proposals for EU legislation and related policy issues as may be referred to it from time to time, in accordance with Standing Order 65(4);

(vi) the strategy statement laid before each House of the Oireachtas by the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources pursuant to section 5(2) of the Public Service Management Act, 1997, and the Joint Committee shall be so authorised for the purposes of section 10 of that Act;

(vii) such annual reports or annual reports and accounts, required by law and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas, of bodies specified in paragraphs 1(a)(i) and (iii), and the overall operational results, statements of strategy and corporate plans of these bodies, as it may select;

Provided that the Joint Committee shall not, at any time, consider any matter relating to such a body which is, which has been, or which is, at that time, proposed to be considered by the Committee of Public Accounts pursuant to the Orders of Reference of that Committee and/or the Comptroller and Auditor General (Amendment) Act, 1993;

Provided further that the Joint Committee shall refrain from inquiring into in public session, or publishing confidential information regarding, any such matter if so requested either by the body concerned or by the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources;

(viii) such other matters as may be jointly referred to it from time to time by both Houses of the Oireachtas,

and shall report thereon to both Houses of the Oireachtas.

(b) The quorum of the Joint Committee shall be five, of whom at least one shall be a member of Dáil Éireann and one a member of Seanad Éireann.

(c) The Joint Committee shall have the powers defined in Standing Order 65(1) to (9) inclusive.

(2) The Chairman of the Joint Committee shall be a member of Dáil Éireann.

Question put and agreed to.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I move:

(1) (a) That a Select Committee consisting of 4 members of Seanad Éireann shall be appointed to be joined with a Select Committee of Dáil Éireann to form the Joint Committee on the Environment and Local Government to consider–

(i) such public affairs administered by the Department of the Environment and Local Government as it may select, including, in respect of Government policy, bodies under the aegis of that Department;

(ii) such matters of policy for which the Minister for the Environment and Local Government is officially responsible as it may select;

(iii) such related policy issues as it may select concerning bodies which are partly or wholly funded by the State or which are established or appointed by Members of the Government or by the Oireachtas;

(iv) such Statutory Instruments made by the Minister for the Environment and Local Government and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas as it may select;

(v) such proposals for EU legislation and related policy issues as may be referred to it from time to time, in accordance with Standing Order 65(4);

(vi) the strategy statement laid before each House of the Oireachtas by the Minister for the Environment and Local Government pursuant to section 5(2) of the Public Service Management Act, 1997, and the Joint Committee shall be so authorised for the purposes of section 10 of that Act;

(vii) such annual reports or annual reports and accounts, required by law and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas, of bodies specified in paragraphs 1(a)(i) and (iii), and the overall operational results, statements of strategy and corporate plans of these bodies, as it may select;

Provided that the Joint Committee shall not, at any time, consider any matter relating to such a body which is, which has been, or which is, at that time, proposed to be considered by the Committee of Public Accounts pursuant to the Orders of Reference of that Committee and/or the Comptroller and Auditor General (Amendment) Act, 1993;

Provided further that the Joint Committee shall refrain from inquiring into in public session, or publishing confidential information regarding, any such matter if so requested either by the body concerned or by the Minister for the Environment and Local Government;

(viii) such other matters as may be jointly referred to it from time to time by both Houses of the Oireachtas,

and shall report thereon to both Houses of the Oireachtas.

(b) The quorum of the Joint Committee shall be five, of whom at least one shall be a member of Dáil Éireann and one a member of Seanad Éireann.

(c) The Joint Committee shall have the powers defined in Standing Order 65(1) to (9) inclusive.

(2) The Chairman of the Joint Committee shall be a member of Dáil Éireann.

Question put and agreed to.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I move:

(1) (a) That a Select Committee consisting of 4 members of Seanad Éireann shall be appointed to be joined with a Select Committee of Dáil Éireann to form the Joint Committee on Agriculture and Food to consider –

(i) such public affairs administered by the Department of Agriculture and Food as it may select, including, in respect of Government policy, bodies under the aegis of that Department;

(ii) such matters of policy for which the Minister for Agriculture and Food is officially responsible as it may select;

(iii) such related policy issues as it may select concerning bodies which are partly or wholly funded by the State or which are established or appointed by Members of the Government or by the Oireachtas;

(iv) such Statutory Instruments made by the Minister for Agriculture and Food and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas as it may select;

(v) such proposals for EU legislation and related policy issues as may be referred to it from time to time, in accordance with Standing Order 65(4);

(vi) the strategy statement laid before each House of the Oireachtas by the Minister for Agriculture and Food pursuant to section 5(2) of the Public Service Management Act, 1997, and the Joint Committee shall be so authorised for the purposes of section 10 of that Act;

(vii) such annual reports or annual reports and accounts, required by law and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas, of bodies specified in paragraphs 1(a)(i) and (iii), and the overall operational results, statements of strategy and corporate plans of these bodies, as it may select;

Provided that the Joint Committee shall not, at any time, consider any matter relating to such a body which is, which has been, or which is, at that time, proposed to be considered by the Committee of Public Accounts pursuant to the Orders of Reference of that Committee and/or the Comptroller and Auditor General (Amendment) Act, 1993;

Provided further that the Joint Committee shall refrain from inquiring into in public session, or publishing confidential information regarding, any such matter if so requested either by the body concerned or by the Minister for Agriculture and Food; and

(viii) such other matters as may be jointly referred to it from time to time by both Houses of the Oireachtas.

and shall report thereon to both Houses of the Oireachtas.

(b) The quorum of the Joint Committee shall be five, of whom at least one shall be a member of Dáil Éireann and one a member of Seanad Éireann.

(c) The Joint Committee shall have the powers defined in Standing Order 65(1) to (9) inclusive.

(2) The Chairman of the Joint Committee shall be a member of Dáil Éireann.

Question put and agreed to.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I move:

(1) (a) That a Select Committee consisting of 4 members of Seanad Éireann shall be appointed to be joined with a Select Committee of Dáil Éireann to form the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service to consider—

(i) such public affairs administered by the Department of the Taoiseach and the Department of Finance as it may select, including, in respect of Government policy, bodies under the aegis of those Departments;

(ii) such matters of policy for which the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance is officially responsible as it may select;

(iii) such related policy issues as it may select concerning bodies which are partly or wholly funded by the State or which are established or appointed by Members of the Government or by the Oireachtas;

(iv) such Statutory Instruments made by the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas as it may select;

(v) such proposals for EU legislation and related policy issues as may be referred to it from time to time, in accordance with Standing Order 65(4);

(vi) the strategy statement laid before each House of the Oireachtas by the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance pursuant to section 5(2) of the Public Service Management Act, 1997, and the Joint Committee shall be so authorised for the purposes of section 10 of that Act;

(vii) such annual reports or annual reports and accounts, required by law and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas, of bodies specified in paragraphs 1(a)(i) and (iii), and the overall operational results, statements of strategy and corporate plans of these bodies, as it may select;

Provided that the Joint Committee shall not, at any time, consider any matter relating to such a body which is, which has been, or which is, at that time, proposed to be considered by the Committee of Public Accounts pursuant to the Orders of Reference of that Committee and/or the Comptroller and Auditor General (Amendment) Act, 1993;

Provided further that the Joint Committee shall refrain from inquiring into in public session, or publishing confidential information regarding, any such matter if so requested either by the body concerned or by the Taoiseach or the Minister for Finance; and

(viii) such other matters as may be jointly referred to it from time to time by both Houses of the Oireachtas.

and shall report thereon to both Houses of the Oireachtas.

(b) The quorum of the Joint Committee shall be five, of whom at least one shall be a member of Dáil Éireann and one a member of Seanad Éireann.

(c) The Joint Committee shall have the powers defined in Standing Order 65(1) to (9) inclusive.

The Chairman of the Joint Committee shall be a member of Dáil Éireann.

Question put and agreed to.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I move:

(1) (a) That a Select Committee consisting of 4 members of Seanad Éireann shall be appointed to be joined with a Select Committee of Dáil Éireann to form the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs to consider–

(i) such public affairs administered by the Department of Foreign Affairs as it may select, including, in respect of Government policy, bodies under the aegis of that Department;

(ii) such matters of policy for which the Minister for Foreign Affairs is officially responsible as it may select;

(iii) such related policy issues as it may select concerning bodies which are partly or wholly funded by the State or which are established or appointed by Members of the Government or by the Oireachtas;

(iv) such Statutory Instruments made by the Minister for Foreign Affairs and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas as it may select;

(v) such proposals for EU legislation and related policy issues as may be referred to it from time to time, in accordance with Standing Order 65(4);

(vi) the strategy statement laid before each House of the Oireachtas by the Minister for Foreign Affairs pursuant to section 5(2) of the Public Service Management Act, 1997, and the Joint Committee shall be so authorised for the purposes of section 10 of that Act;

(vii) such annual reports or annual reports and accounts, required by law and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas, of bodies specified in paragraphs 1(a)(i) and (iii), and the overall operational results, statements of strategy and corporate plans of these bodies, as it may select;

Provided that the Joint Committee shall not, at any time, consider any matter relating to such a body which is, which has been, or which is, at that time, proposed to be considered by the Committee of Public Accounts pursuant to the Orders of Reference of that Committee and/or the Comptroller and Auditor General (Amendment) Act, 1993;

Provided further that the Joint Committee shall refrain from inquiring into in public session, or publishing confidential information regarding, any such matter if so requested either by the body concerned or by the Minister for Foreign Affairs;

(viii) such aspects of Ireland's international relations as it may select; and

(ix) such other matters as may be jointly referred to it from time to time by both Houses of the Oireachtas.

and shall report thereon to both Houses of the Oireachtas.

Provided that any consideration by the Joint Committee, or a sub-committee, of security issues relating to Northern Ireland shall be in private session and the provisions of Standing Order 81 shall apply.

(b) The quorum of the Joint Committee shall be five, of whom at least one shall be a member of Dáil Éireann and one a member of Seanad Éireann.

(c) The Joint Committee shall have the powers defined in Standing Order 65(1) to (9) inclusive.

(d) The following persons may attend meetings of the Joint Committee and of its sub-committees and may take part in proceedings without having a right to vote or to move motions and amendments:

(i) Members of the European Parliament elected from constituencies in Ireland (including Northern Ireland);

(ii) members of the Irish delegation to the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe; and

(iii) at the invitation of the Joint Committee or of a sub-Committee, as appropriate, other Members of the European Parliament.

(2) The Chairman of the Joint Committee shall be a member of Dáil Éireann.

Question put and agreed to.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I move:

(1) (a) That a Select Committee consisting of 4 members of Seanad Éireann shall be appointed to be joined with a Select Committee of Dáil Éireann to form the Joint Committee on Education and Science to consider—

(i) such public affairs administered by the Department of Education and Science as it may select, including, in respect of Government policy, bodies under the aegis of that Department;

(ii) such matters of policy for which the Minister for Education and Science is officially responsible as it may select;

(iii) such related policy issues as it may select concerning bodies which are partly or wholly funded by the State or which are established or appointed by Members of the Government or by the Oireachtas;

(iv) such Statutory Instruments made by the Minister for Education and Science and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas as it may select;

(v) such proposals for EU legislation and related policy issues as may be referred to it from time to time, in accordance with Standing Order 65(4);

(vi) the strategy statement laid before each House of the Oireachtas by the Minister for Education and Science pursuant to section 5(2) of the Public Service Management Act, 1997, and the Joint Committee shall be so authorised for the purposes of section 10 of that Act;

(vii) such annual reports or annual reports and accounts, required by law and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas, of bodies specified in paragraphs 1(a)(i) and (iii), and the overall operational results, statements of strategy and corporate plans of these bodies, as it may select;

Provided that the Joint Committee shall not, at any time, consider any matter relating to such a body which is, which has been, or which is, at that time, proposed to be considered by the Committee of Public Accounts pursuant to the Orders of Reference of that Committee and/or the Comptroller and Auditor General (Amendment) Act, 1993;

Provided further that the Joint Committee shall refrain from inquiring into in public session, or publishing confidential information regarding, any such matter if so requested either by the body concerned or by the Minister for Education and Science;

(viii) such other matters as may be jointly referred to it from time to time by both Houses of the Oireachtas,

and shall report thereon to both Houses of the Oireachtas,

(b) The quorum of the Joint Committee shall be five, of whom at least one shall be a member of Dáil Éireann and one a member of Seanad Éireann.

(c) The Joint Committee shall have the powers defined in Standing Order 65(1) to (9) inclusive.

(2) The Chairman of the Joint Committee shall be a member of Dáil Éireann.

Question put and agreed to.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I move:

(1) (a) That a Select Committee consisting of 4 members of Seanad Éireann shall be appointed to be joined with a Select Committee of Dáil Éireann to form the Joint Committee on Social and Family Affairs to consider–

(i) such public affairs administered by the Department of Social and Family Affairs as it may select, including, in respect of Government policy, bodies under the aegis of that Department;

(ii) such matters of policy for which the Minister for Social and Family Affairs is officially responsible as it may select;

(iii) such related policy issues as it may select concerning bodies which are partly or wholly funded by the State or which are established or appointed by Members of the Government or by the Oireachtas;

(iv) such Statutory Instruments made by the Minister for Social and Family Affairs and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas as it may select;

(v) such proposals for EU legislation and related policy issues as may be referred to it from time to time, in accordance with Standing Order 65(4);

(vi) the strategy statement laid before each House of the Oireachtas by the Minister for Social and Family Affairs pursuant to section 5(2) of the Public Service Management Act, 1997, and the Joint Committee shall be so authorised for the purposes of section 10 of that Act;

(vii) such annual reports or annual reports and accounts, required by law and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas, of bodies specified in paragraphs 1(a)(i) and (iii), and the overall operational results, statements of strategy and corporate plans of these bodies, as it may select;

Provided that the Joint Committee shall not, at any time, consider any matter relating to such a body which is, which has been, or which is, at that time, proposed to be considered by the Committee of Public Accounts pursuant to the Orders of Reference of that Committee and/or the Comptroller and Auditor General (Amendment) Act, 1993;

Provided further that the Joint Committee shall refrain from inquiring into in public session, or publishing confidential information regarding, any such matter if so requested either by the body concerned or by the Minister for Social and Family Affairs; and

(viii) such other matters as may be jointly referred to it from time to time by both Houses of the Oireachtas,

and shall report thereon to both Houses of the Oireachtas.

(b) The quorum of the Joint Committee shall be five, of whom at least one shall be a member of Dáil Éireann and one a member of Seanad Éireann.

(c) The Joint Committee shall have the powers defined in Standing Order 65(1) to (9) inclusive,

(2) The Chairman of the Joint Committee shall be a member of Dáil Éireann.

Question put and agreed to.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I move:

(1) (a) That a Select Committee consisting of 4 members of Seanad Éireann shall be appointed to be joined with a Select Committee of Dáil Éireann to form the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights to consider–

(i) such public affairs administered by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Department of Defence as it may select, including, in respect of Government policy, bodies under the aegis of those Departments;

(ii) such matters of policy for which the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Minister for Defence are officially responsible as it may select;

(iii) such related policy issues as it may select concerning bodies which are partly or wholly funded by the State or which are established or appointed by Members of the Government or by the Oireachtas;

(iv) such Statutory Instruments made by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Minister for Defence and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas as it may select;

(v) such proposals for EU legislation and related policy issues as may be referred to it from time to time, in accordance with Standing Order 65(4);

(vi) the strategy statement laid before each House of the Oireachtas by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Minister for Defence, pursuant to section 5(2) of the Public Service Management Act, 1997, and the Joint Committee shall be so authorised for the purposes of section 10 of that Act;

(vii) such annual reports or annual reports and accounts, required by law and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas, of bodies specified in paragraphs 1(a)(i) and (iii), and the overall operational results, statements of strategy and corporate plans of these bodies, as it may select;

Provided that the Joint Committee shall not, at any time, consider any matter relating to such a body which is, which has been, or which is, at that time, proposed to be considered by the Committee of Public Accounts pursuant to the Orders of Reference of that Committee and/or the Comptroller and Auditor General (Amendment) Act, 1993;

Provided further that the Joint Committee shall refrain from inquiring into in public session, or publishing confidential information regarding, any such matter it so requested either by the body concerned or by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform or the Minister for Defence;

(viii) such matters relating to women's rights generally, as it may select, and in this regard the Joint Committee shall be free to consider areas relating to any Government Department; and

(ix) such other matters as may be jointly referred to it from time to time by both Houses of the Oireachtas,

and shall report thereon to both Houses of the Oireachtas.

(b) The quorum of the Joint Committee shall be five, of whom at least one shall be a member of Dáil Éireann and one a member of Seanad Éireann.

(c) The Joint Committee shall have the powers defined in Standing Order 65(1) to (9) inclusive,

(2) The Chairman of the Joint Committee shall be a member of Dáil Éireann.

Question put and agreed to.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I move:

(1) (a) That a Select Committee consisting of 4 members of Seanad Éireann shall be appointed to be joined with a Select Committee of Dáil Éireann to form the Joint Committee on Health and Children to consider–

(i) such public affairs administered by the Department of Health and Children as it may select, including, in respect of Government policy, bodies under the aegis of that Department;

(ii) such matters of policy for which the Minister for Health and Children is officially responsible as it may select;

(iii) such related policy issues as it may select concerning bodies which are partly or wholly funded by the State or which are established or appointed by Members of the Government or by the Oireachtas;

(iv) such Statutory Instruments made by the Minister for Health and Children and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas as it may select;

(v) such proposals for EU legislation and related policy issues as may be referred to it from time to time, in accordance with Standing Order 65(4);

(vi) the strategy statement laid before each House of the Oireachtas by the Minister for Health and Children pursuant to section 5(2) of the Public Service Management Act, 1997, and the Joint Committee shall be so authorised for the purposes of section 10 of that Act;

(vii) such annual reports or annual reports and accounts, required by law and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas, of bodies specified in paragraphs 1(a)(i) and (iii), and the overall operational results, statements of strategy and corporate plans of these bodies, as it may select;

Provided that the Joint Committee shall not, at any time, consider any matter relating to such a body which is, which has been, or which is, at that time, proposed to be considered by the Committee of Public Accounts pursuant to the Orders of Reference of that Committee and/or the Comptroller and Auditor General (Amendment) Act, 1993;

Provided further that the Joint Committee shall refrain from inquiring into in public session, or publishing confidential information regarding, any such matter if so requested either by the body or by the Minister for Health and Children; and

(viii) such other matters as may be jointly referred to it from time to time by both Houses of the Oireachtas, and shall report thereon to both Houses of the Oireachtas.

(b) The quorum of the Joint Committee shall be five, of whom at least one shall be a member of Dáil Éireann and one a member of Seanad Éireann,

(c) The Joint Committee shall have the powers defined in Standing Order 65(1) to (9) inclusive,

(2) The Chairman of the Joint Committee shall be a member of Dáil Éireann.

Question put and agreed to.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I move:

(1) (a) That a Select Committee consisting of 4 members of Seanad Éireann shall be appointed to be joined with a Select Committee of Dáil Éireann to form the Joint Committee on Arts, Sport, Tourism, Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs to consider–

(i) such public affairs administered by the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism and the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs as it may select, including, in respect of Government policy, bodies under the aegis of those Departments;

(ii) such matters of policy for which the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism and the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs are officially responsible as it may select;

(iii) such related policy issues as it may select concerning bodies which are partly or wholly funded by the State or which are established or appointed by Members of the Government or by the Oireachtas;

(iv) such Statutory Instruments made by the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism and the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs and laid before Houses of the Oireachtas as it may select;

(v) such proposals for EU legislation and related policy issues as may be referred to it from time to time, in accordance with Standing Order 65(4);

(vi) the strategy statement laid before each House of the Oireachtas by the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism and the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs pursuant to section 5(2) of the Public Service Management Act, 1997, and the Joint Committee shall be so authorised for the purposes of section 10 of that Act;

(vii) such annual reports or annual reports and accounts, required by law and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas, of bodies specified in paragraphs 1(a)(i) and (iii), and the overall operational results, statements of strategy and corporate plans of these bodies, as it may select;

Provided that the Joint Committee shall not, at any time, consider any matter relating to such a body which is, which has been, or which is, at that time, proposed to be considered by the Committee of Public Accounts pursuant to the Orders of Reference of that Committee and/or the Comptroller and Auditor General (Amendment) Act, 1993;

Provided further that the Joint Committee shall refrain from inquiring into in public session, or publishing confidential information regarding, any such matter if so requested either by the body concerned or by the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism or the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs; and

(viii) such other matters as may be jointly referred to it from time to time by both Houses of the Oireachtas, and shall report thereon to both Houses of the Oireachtas.

(b) The quorum of the Joint Committee shall be five, of whom at least one shall be a member of Dáil Éireann and one a member of Seanad Éireann,

(c) The Joint Committee shall have the powers defined in Standing Order 65(1) to (9) inclusive.

(2) The Chairman of the Joint Committee shall be a member of Dáil Éireann.

Question put and agreed to.

Photo of Mary O'RourkeMary O'Rourke (Fianna Fail)
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I move:

(1) (a) That a Select Committee consisting of 4 members of Seanad Éireann shall be appointed to be joined with a Select Committee of Dáil Éireann to form the Joint Committee on European Affairs to –

(i) scrutinise, in the context of European Union issues and measures to be taken by the Council of Ministers of the European Union,

(I) any proposals under the Community treaties for legislation by the Council or the Council acting jointly with the European Parliament,

(II) any document which is published for submission to the European Council, the Council or the European Central Bank,

(III) any proposal for a common strategy, a joint action or a common position under Title V of the Treaty on European Union which is prepared for submission to the Council or to the European Council,

(IV) any proposal for a common position, framework decision, decision or a convention under Title VI of the Treaty on European Union which is prepared for submission to the Council,

(V) any document (not falling within (II), (III), or (IV) above) which is published by one Union institution for or with a view to submission to another Union institution and which does not relate exclusively to the consideration of any proposal for legislation, and

(VI) any other document relating to European Union matters deposited in both Houses of the Oireachtas by a member of the Government or Minister of State, as it may select;

(ii) consider such matters arising from Ireland's membership of the European Communities and its adherence to the Treaty on European Union, as it may select;

(iii) consider such –

(I) acts of the institutions of the European Communities,

(II) regulations under the European Communities Acts, 1972 to 1998,

(III) other instruments made under statute and necessitated by the obligations of membership of the European Communities,

as it may select;

(iv) consider such other matters as may be referred to it from time to time by both Houses of the Oireachtas; and

(v) represent both Houses of the Oireachtas at the Conference of European Affairs Committees (COSAC),

and shall report thereon to both Houses of the Oireachtas.

(b) The Joint Committee shall have:

(i) the powers defined in Standing Order 65 (1) to (9) inclusive;

(ii) the power to refer a proposal for EU legislation which has been considered by it (and which has been concluded to be of sufficient national importance to require further scrutiny) to a Joint Committee on which has been conferred the power defined in Standing Order 65(4) to consider such proposals; and

(iii) the power to request the presence of members of the Government (or Ministers of State nominated in their stead) (or, in the case of the European Council, the Taoiseach or Minister for Foreign Affairs) to attend before the Joint Committee and provide, in private session if so desired by the member of the Government or Minister of State, oral briefings in advance of Council meetings to enable the Joint Committee to make known its views.

(c) The following persons may attend meetings of the Joint Committee and of its Sub-Committees and may take part in proceedings without having a right to vote or to move motions and amendments:

(i) Members of the European Parliament elected from constituencies in Ireland (including Northern Ireland);

(ii) members of the Irish delegation to the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe; and

(iii) at the invitation of the Joint Committee or of a sub-Committee, as appropriate, other Members of the European Parliament.

(d) The quorum of the Joint Committee shall be five, of whom at least one shall be a member of Dáil Éireann and one a member of Seanad Éireann.

(2) The Chairman of the Joint Committee shall be a member of Dáil Éireann.

Question put and agreed to.