Dáil debates

Wednesday, 12 June 2024

1:10 pm

Photo of Ruairí Ó MurchúRuairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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9. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on any recent discussions he has had with other world leaders in connection with the conflict in the Middle East. [23652/24]

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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10. To ask the Taoiseach to report on his recent phone conversation with the Israeli President. [23879/24]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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11. To ask the Taoiseach to report on his recent phone conversation with the Israeli President. [23882/24]

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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12. To ask the Taoiseach to report on his recent phone conversation with the Israeli President. [23885/24]

Photo of Seán HaugheySeán Haughey (Dublin Bay North, Fianna Fail)
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13. To ask the Taoiseach to report on his recent phone conversation with the Israeli President. [24764/24]

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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14. To ask the Taoiseach to report on his recent phone conversation with the Israeli President. [25301/24]

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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15. To ask the Taoiseach to report on his recent phone conversation with the Israeli President. [25388/24]

Photo of Seán HaugheySeán Haughey (Dublin Bay North, Fianna Fail)
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16. To ask the Taoiseach to report on his recent phone conversation with the President of Türkiye. [25606/24]

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 9 to 16, inclusive, together.

I reported to the Dáil on 22 May regarding my recent discussions with international leaders on the situation in the Middle East. Since then, I have had calls with President Abbas of Palestine, with the Prime Minister of Pakistan, Mr. Shehbaz Sharif, and with President Erdogan of Türkiye, following our recognition of the State of Palestine.

In my call with President Abbas, I informed him of the Government's decision to recognise the State of Palestine to keep the hopes of a two-state peace solution between Israel and Palestine alive. President Abbas, in thanking Ireland and the Irish people for that decision, told me that the decision was a beacon of hope to the Palestinian people and he thanked Ireland, Spain and Norway. He also underlined his position and that of the Palestinian Authority that Israel has the right to exist in peace and security with its neighbours. We also spoke about the need for a lasting ceasefire and an end to the unfolding humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza.

In our call on 24 May, Pakistani Prime Minister Sharif welcomed Ireland's decision to recognise the State of Palestine. We also discussed the devastating situation in Gaza. We also exchanged views on bilateral relations and other global issues, including the situation in Ukraine and the forthcoming summit in Switzerland on peace in Ukraine.

I also discussed the situation in Gaza with Turkish President Erdogan, as well as the wider implications of the conflict for the Middle Eastern region. President Erdogan again thanked Ireland for its recognition of the State of Palestine, which he stated was important for providing momentum towards a two-state solution. We also discussed and reviewed Irish-Turkish bilateral relations.

I held a call with the President of Israel on 17 May. During my call with the President, I set out Ireland's position on the war in Gaza. I told the President that we expected to see an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and an urgent and massively scaled-up distribution of humanitarian aid. I also highlighted our deep concern about the ongoing humanitarian catastrophe. President Herzog conveyed Israel's concerns about Irish plans to recognise the State of Palestine.

Photo of Ruairí Ó MurchúRuairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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This House has heard previously that Israel behaves as it does because history has taught it that it can act with absolute impunity. For more than 76 years, it has displaced, occupied, annexed, imprisoned and murdered men, women and children, individually and by the dozens, hundreds, thousands and now tens of thousands.

It is welcome that Ireland formally recognised the State of Palestine earlier this month alongside other states. I understand in advance of that, on a phone call with the Israeli President, the Taoiseach expressed concern about the potential for catastrophe in Rafah. Israel does what it does because it feels that it can act with impunity. When the Taoiseach expressed concern about a potential catastrophe arising from the actions of the Israeli Government and its military, what did the Taoiseach tell him would be the consequences of his Government willingly bringing about that catastrophe?

We know what needs to be done as regards divestment. As I said previously, whether it is through my party's Bill or another means, we need to go further. We know the issues there are with the EU-Israel Association Agreement but we need to see movement beyond what has happened.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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This evening, Mothers Against Genocide will hold a protest outside Government Buildings. I am sure they would be glad if the Taoiseach went out to talk to them. The particular focus of their protest this evening is these enormous dumb bombs that are being used by Israel in Gaza to blow the place to bits and have been provided by the United States. The protest will highlight the outrageous complicity of western Governments with the Israeli military machine that is committing genocide and using weapons utterly indiscriminately. Tonight's protest will seek to highlight how if a similar bomb was used on Kildare Street, it would blow the whole of Kildare Street and the Houses of the Oireachtas away and people would be hit with fragments of that bomb as far away as Grafton Street.

What it also highlights is a more general involvement, including on the part of this Government, where we continue to do business with a state that is committing these crimes. I have been reading reports recently about the fact that we have purchased millions of euro worth of drones, and provide money for the maintenance of these drones, and other military equipment from Elbit Systems and Aeronautics Defense Systems, both of which are Israeli companies deeply implicated in the military hardware used to kill Palestinians.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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I ask the Taoiseach to condemn in the strongest possible terms the massacre and slaughter of civilians at the Nuseirat refugee camp in Gaza. Under the guise of rescuing hostages, of whom four were rescued but another three killed, almost 300 people were killed. It seems clear that war crimes were committed here, including the war crime of perfidy. Soldiers hiding in a supposedly humanitarian truck is obviously a war crime precisely because it places other humanitarian aid workers in danger as it gives rise to the thought that they could be forces from an opposing side.

The UN special rapporteur of the occupied Palestinian territories said Israeli forces were, "perfidiously hiding in an aid truck", and "This is 'humanitarian camouflage' at another level." It appears that US forces were directly involved with the IDF, which reported that "the US hostage cell played a decisive role in freeing the hostages". It appears at least likely that this port, supposedly built to bring humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza, was used in some way in this massacre. It needs to be condemned in the strongest possible terms.

Photo of Cormac DevlinCormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Haughey has two questions in this grouping. Will he take them together?

Photo of Seán HaugheySeán Haughey (Dublin Bay North, Fianna Fail)
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Yes. According to the Gaza Health Ministry, more than 37,100 Palestinians have been killed since the beginning of the war between Israel and Hamas on 7 October. On that day, 1,200 Israelis were killed in the Hamas attacks. Meanwhile the Israeli offensive on Gaza continues unabated. The Israeli operation in the past few days to free four of the hostages resulted in the death and injury of hundreds of Palestinians, including many women and children.

Ireland was one of the first countries in the EU to call for a humanitarian ceasefire to stop the madness. As we know, the US Administration has brought forward a three-phase ceasefire plan and this has now been adopted by the UN Security Council. What is the Taoiseach's understanding of this ceasefire plan? What is the Irish position in this regard? Are Israel and Hamas likely to support it? Are there grounds for hope that this terrible war is coming to an end?

My second question relates to the phone conversation with President Erdogan of Türkiye. The European Commission published a joint communication on the current position concerning EU-Türkiye relations last November. Certainly, it is in the interests of the EU to have good relations with Türkiye, particularly as regards migration, for example.

During the Taoiseach's phone conversation, did he get the impression that Türkiye is serious about its EU application and is making the necessary reforms? President Erdoğan is a populist leader and has good relations with Russia. Where stands Türkiye's application to join the EU at this stage?

1:20 pm

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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On 22 May, the Geneva International Peace Research Institute filed a complaint at the International Criminal Court against Ursula von der Leyen for complicity in war crimes and crimes against humanity. The complaint read:

Reasonable grounds exist to believe that the unconditional support of the President of the European Commission to Israel – ... economic, diplomatic and political – has enabled war crimes and the ongoing genocide in Gaza.

Ursula von der Leyen is currently the nominee of the European People's Party, EPP, for leadership of the new European Commission. Fine Gael is part of the EPP. Its new MEPs will all have a vote in this matter. Is the Taoiseach comfortable seeing Fine Gael's new MEPs lining up to vote for a woman who the International Criminal Court is now being asked to investigate for war crimes?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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We have to be very careful about that presentation by the Deputy. Somebody asking somebody to investigate somebody for something is a bit of a stretch. The President of the European Commission is not in any way, shape or form what the Deputy portrayed at all. It is important that we share the process with people in the country because there was a lot of misinformation around it during the European elections. The process for electing a President of the European Commission is as follows. The European Council will nominate a name to the European Parliament. I am a member of the European Council, which will nominate a person. We will begin our discussions on that in the coming days. It probably will not conclude until the end of the month or thereabouts. The name of the nominee will then go to the European Parliament, where there is then a ballot in favour or against the candidates based on their credentials. That is the process. The role of an MEP only begins when the member states of the European Union, through the European Council, agree on a name to put forward. That is the first thing.

President von der Leyen was put forward as the lead candidate for the party that has won the most votes and seats in the European Parliament. Democracy does matter. Often, our citizens feel there is democratic deficit between institutions. President von der Leyen was put forward as the lead candidate, not just in Ireland. I am not talking about Ireland specifically; right across the European Union the EPP won the most seats in the European Parliament. That is where the situation currently stands. The process is that the European Council will now consider what are called the top posts, or the four jobs, which are the foreign representative, the President of the Commission, the President of the Parliament and the President of the Council. A variety of institutions will consider those posts in the days and weeks ahead.

I read a statement to the House and spoke to the President of Israel after that. We had a firm conversation where we shared our views. We obviously have a very different view from Israel's. I conveyed very clearly the Irish view. I made the point that Israel isolating itself from the world is not a good position for Israel to be in. It is not a good position at all. We need to see a ceasefire. To the specific question on where the ceasefire plan stands, which was raised by a few Deputies, there are reasons for optimism. I note the comments of Hamas today and the work of the Egyptian Government that is going on in that regard. The Government, the Tánaiste and I have called for an acceptance of that ceasefire. We did that because while there is no such thing as a perfect plan, this plan stops the violence, killing and war crimes. It allows a situation where process and dialogue can be brought about. That is the way conflict is resolved.

On Deputy Murphy's point, I condemn what he outlined the strongest possible terms, as any right-thinking person might. I want to see all the hostages released unconditionally, as I presume everyone in the House does. Everybody wants to see the hostages released unconditionally but the constant targeting of civilians, including children, is utterly horrific. There has to be accountability for any potential war crimes that have been committed. It is not for me, on the floor of the Dáil, to decide who has or has not committed a war crime. The structures to do that are clear and are there through the International Court of Justice. Ireland fully supports the work of the court. The most important thing that should happen now is a cessation of the violence. This has to include an immediate ceasefire, unhindered and unimpeded access to humanitarian aid and the unconditional release of all the hostages. I met the soon-to-be Palestinian ambassador last week. It was the first time a Palestinian ambassador had been in the Taoiseach's office, which, again, is a statement on what recognition means. She outlined to me in the most horrifying terms the scale of the humanitarian catastrophe. The world does not yet fully comprehend, despite what we see on our TV screens, how horrific the humanitarian situation is.

On my conversation with the President of Türkiye, I believe he and his Government want to see closer relations with the European Union. As the Deputy rightly said, any membership of the European Union has to be based on criteria. That involves countries undertaking a programme of reform. Where it stands now is with the April conclusions of the European Council, where we agreed to ask teams to engage with and recommence discussions with Türkiye. That is an important step. Türkiye has played an important role in grain agreements and so on to keep food supplies flowing through Ukraine. It is absolutely in the European Union's interest to have a good close relationship with Türkiye. If a country wishes to become a member of the European Union, it involves that country carrying out significant reforms. However, my conversation with President Erdoğan was largely around the situation in the Middle East.