Dáil debates

Wednesday, 12 June 2024

Ceisteanna - Questions

Departmental Programmes

1:20 pm

Photo of Christopher O'SullivanChristopher O'Sullivan (Cork South West, Fianna Fail)
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17. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the national reform programme 2024 published by his Department on 10 May last. [23896/24]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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18. To ask the Taoiseach to report on the recently published national reform programme 2024. [23996/24]

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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19. To ask the Taoiseach to report on the recently published national reform programme 2024. [23999/24]

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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20. To ask the Taoiseach to report on the recently published national reform programme 2024. [24001/24]

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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21. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the national reform programme 2024 published by his Department on 10 May 2024. [25389/24]

Photo of Cian O'CallaghanCian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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22. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the national reform programme 2024 published by his Department on 10 May 2024. [25444/24]

Photo of Cormac DevlinCormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I ask Members to note the remaining time for this slot. We have a little more than 13 minutes. I ask them to keep to a minute apiece to give time to the Taoiseach to respond.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 17 to 22, inclusive, together.

Ireland submitted its 2024 national reform programme, NRP, to the European Commission on 30 April. The NRP was subsequently also laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas and published. The NRP is an element of the European semester, the annual cycle of economic and social policy co-ordination among EU member states. As part of the semester, Ireland, along with other member states, has been required to prepare and submit an NRP to the European Commission each year.

The NRP provides an overview of economic reforms and policy actions under way in Ireland, including responses to country-specific recommendations received from the Commission. Since 2022, the NRP also reports on implementation of the recovery and resilience facility, RFF. Thematic issues addressed in Ireland’s 2024 NRP include climate action and the environment; housing; the digital transition; supporting participation in the labour market; supporting enterprise; promoting balanced, fair and inclusive development; and planning for the future and long-term fiscal sustainability. Development of the NRP was co-ordinated by the Department of the Taoiseach, with input from relevant Departments and agencies. It drew on Government strategies such as the national development plan, Housing for All, and the climate action plan. During the NRP's preparation, stakeholders were also invited to make submissions.

In April this year, reforms to the EU economic governance framework came into force. The reforms aim to strengthen debt sustainability and enhance sustainable and inclusive economic growth through investment and reform. Under the new framework, Ireland will need to commit to a five-year plan setting out a path for net expenditure and including information on investments and reforms relating to the European semester and the EU’s common priorities. As part of the new framework, Ireland will be required to submit an annual progress report, which will in effect replace the current NRP process. As such, this year’s NRP is the last that Ireland will be required to submit.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Among other things, the NRP addresses the housing crisis and challenges relating to housing. I again draw the Taoiseach's attention to a particular aspect of the housing crisis, namely people who are working, earning money, paying tax and contributing to our society who find themselves driven over the thresholds for social housing. Those thresholds are so low those people are losing their ten or 15 years on the housing list. When they start earning a few quid over the threshold, those years are all gone.

However, because their earnings are just over the threshold, they are not enough to pay the rents out there or even to access some of the cost-rental programmes, if they could get a cost-rental property. We have to do something. I have highlighted the case of a woman and her husband who were on HAP and are facing homelessness. If they end up homeless, they will lose even their entitlement to HAP. That makes no sense. If you are in a council house, which people should have, you do not lose it if you earn more. Rather, your rent is adjusted. However, ironically, if you end up homeless, you lose everything. You are completely trapped. We have to do something about this. It is just not fair. It is punishing people who are working, contributing and trying to make an effort. The thresholds themselves are a problem. There are issues with the income thresholds for some of the cost-rental developments. You can be eligible on one ground but not eligible because your income is too low for the rents, even if you can get a cost-rental property. This issue has to be addressed for working people.

1:30 pm

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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Also on the issue of housing, I am not sure if the Taoiseach saw it but there was a Central Bank report yesterday that projected that more than one quarter of Dublin office space could be vacant over the next two years. This is a potential game-changer as regards the housing crisis. The accommodation in question is a significant untapped resource. Total office space in Dublin was estimated at 3.9 million sq. m back in 2020. A quarter of that is enough space for more than 20,000 apartments in Dublin. We know it can be done. It is being done in a certain way now in that office buildings are being repurposed for accommodation for international protection applicants. It is obviously quite overcrowded and not suitable for people to live in for the long term but it shows that commercial buildings can be converted for residential use. If we had a left government that was willing, we could take these vacant office buildings into public ownership and convert them into social and affordable housing.

It also makes sense from a climate perspective. Emissions from converting existing built buildings into housing will be much lower than those from building housing from scratch. Offices also tend to be in much more central locations with good access to transport and so on rather than in the greenfield locations used for new housing estates. Instead of chasing refugees up and down the canal, the Taoiseach should use some of that energy of his to go after vacant offices around the city to use them for housing.

Photo of Cormac DevlinCormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I know we are dealing with questions to the Taoiseach but Deputy Barry, who is next, might inform the House what happened to his finger. That is a pretty big bandage he is sporting. I know postering is dangerous but-----

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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Do I get an extra 30 seconds to explain? All I will say is that you should be very careful when dealing with sash windows. The Irish Examiner reviewed the Cork city north-west ward on May 31 and included in its report the line "Big issues also include housing and rents, and - surprisingly in a modern city - delivery of clean tap water." It certainly proved to be an issue in the election. It came up at door after door. There was the man who had to lift his ten-year-old boy up to the sink to wash him with bottled water because he could not let him use the shower. There was the woman who said her water supply was so dirty and so discoloured that she would not give it to her dog and was now buying bottled water for one husband, three kids and one family dog. On 15 April, nearly two full months ago, the Tánaiste told Uisce Éireann he wanted to see a timeline for sorting this issue out. To my knowledge, no such timeline has been announced. Perhaps it is time for the Taoiseach to travel to Cork to meet Uisce Éireann because this cannot keep going the way it is going.

Photo of Ruairí Ó MurchúRuairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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We all welcome the Narrow Water bridge project. We need to ensure it is built on time and on budget. I know Antóin Watters and Fiona Mhic Conchoille would also be very supportive of that. We have to prepare in every way to lessen the impact of the Border. We have to prepare for the eventual stage of there being no Border, which would deal with an awful lot of issues. I was at an event with Dundalk Chamber of Commerce earlier. It was a breakfast briefing session on tax implications for cross-Border workers and employers. Rose Tierney, the tax consultant, spoke at it. It covered issues related to remote working, which is not entirely possible for cross-Border workers unless their employers are willing to operate a dual system, setting themselves up in this jurisdiction for tax purposes, which is not always possible. There are very significant issues in respect of social insurance, benefits, pension lump sums, redundancy payments and many other issues. Now that we have the Northern Executive up and running, there should be Government engagement with the latter, particularly with the Minister for Finance, Caoimhe Archibald, and Minister for the Economy, Conor Murphy. After the election in Britain, more engagement on some sort of bilateral agreement to deal with these particular issues may be possible. They are absolutely vital, particularly for those who live in the Border area.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I will start with that point. I will certainly ensure there is continued engagement with the Northern Ireland Executive. Members of our Government have already had bilateral meetings with the Ministers, Conor Murphy and Caoimhe Archibald. We will continue that engagement.

We also want to see the Narrow Water bridge come in on time and on budget. Louth County Council is overseeing that process. I particularly commend the chief executive, who has put her shoulder to the wheel over a very long period to deliver this project. I look forward to seeing it finally delivered.

On the clean water issue, which Deputy Barry raises with me on a very regular basis, the points he makes are real, valid and worrying for people. I will personally ask Uisce Éireann's chief executive for a timeline in that regard and will personally come back to the Deputy on the matter. I can only imagine the frustration of his constituents in the situations he has outlined. Arising from our previous engagements in the House, I have raised the matter but I will personally ask for a timeline and seek an update from the Tánaiste before coming back to the Deputy.

To respond to Deputy Murphy, I have not yet read the Central Bank report on the issue of vacant office space but I will now that he has brought it to my attention. We are in the business of trying to see how vacant office space can be repurposed for IPAS and the likes, where appropriate. There are some examples of that already. I will be very clear on the position on tents. The only rationale behind our removal of tents - I do not like using that phrase and should perhaps say "removing people from tents" - is to move them to safer accommodation with better sanitation and humanitarian situations than they are now encountering.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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They were moved yesterday with nowhere to go.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I have checked that out and have been informed that is not the case. I am continuing to seek full information. I also had a multiagency meeting on the issue yesterday and my understanding is that there is currently a small amount of spare capacity in some of the facilities. To be very honest, the big thing we are working on in the short term is bringing a State-owned site that has been much discussed into use. At that site, we will be able to provide a decent form of shelter and sanitation while moving towards the comprehensive accommodation strategy the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, is working on. The point the Deputy makes about what to do with much of the vacant office space that may build up around our city is valid. I will give the matter some consideration.

To respond to Deputy Boyd Barrett's question on thresholds, I make the point that we recently reviewed and increased the thresholds, although that has not necessarily addressed the issues he is raising. We do not need poverty traps whereby people are doing their best to get by and find that, by doing that, they fall out. I will talk to the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, again to see if there is any ability to further increase the thresholds and what his plans are in that regard.