Dáil debates
Wednesday, 12 June 2024
Ceisteanna - Questions
Cabinet Committees
12:50 pm
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Northern Ireland will meet next. [23663/24]
Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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2. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Northern Ireland will meet next. [23694/24]
Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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3. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Northern Ireland will meet next. [23878/24]
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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4. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Northern Ireland will meet next. [23881/24]
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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5. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Northern Ireland will meet next. [23884/24]
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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6. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Northern Ireland will meet next. [24765/24]
Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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7. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Northern Ireland will meet next. [24766/24]
Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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8. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on Northern Ireland will meet next. [25387/24]
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 8, inclusive, together.
The Cabinet committee on Northern Ireland was created on 10 April 2024 and will oversee implementation of programme for Government commitments and ongoing developments related to Northern Ireland. Its membership comprises me as Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence, and the Ministers for the Environment, Climate and Communications and Transport, Justice, Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform, Finance, and Agriculture, Food and the Marine. Other Ministers and Ministers of State will be invited to participate as required. It is expected to meet during the coming weeks. Issues related to Northern Ireland are also discussed at Cabinet and in bilateral meetings I regularly have. As I previously updated the House, on my visit to Belfast on 3 May I met the First Minister and deputy First Minister, the Speaker of the Assembly and the leaders of the Alliance Party, the SDLP and the UUP. I look forward to meeting the First Minister and deputy First Minister again at the British-Irish Council summit in the Isle of Man on 20 and 21 June. Following the plenary meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council on 8 April, a series of 12 ministerial sectoral meetings are in the process of being held before the summer recess.
Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The island of Ireland is faced with an ecological crisis and potential catastrophe in Lough Neagh and its surrounding waterways. This was particularly evident when the green algae bloom on the lough was especially pronounced during the summer months last year. It is clear that the entire ecosystem of Lough Neagh faces a serious ecological crisis. This is a crisis and challenge for the entire island and it deserves a response on an all-Ireland basis. Long-term implications for biodiversity, public health and the sustainability of our freshwater fishing industry are now in evidence in and around the wider hinterland of Lough Neagh. As we face the warmer months, we are likely to see an escalation of this ecological crisis affecting Lough Neagh and its surrounding waterways. An urgent strategy to address the challenges in the lough and its surrounding waterways is required.
This is clearly an issue of concern, not just in the immediate environs of Lough Neagh or the North, but for the whole island of Ireland, and therefore demands a joint and co-ordinated response by the two Administrations, North and South. The critical condition of Lough Neagh must be addressed as an all-Ireland priority. In this context, has this been addressed up to now in the work of the Cabinet committee? If so, what action will develop from any discussions that have taken place? If not, will this crisis be part of the agenda for future meetings?
Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. He will recall that at our British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly meeting in his county, a call was made, particularly by British parliamentarians, for better engagement by their own Government with the Irish Government, be it at the British-Irish Council or the British–Irish Intergovernmental Conference. We hope that, in future, the British Prime Minister and senior ministers will be regular attendees and participants at those crucial bilateral meetings where, over the years, successive taoisigh, tánaistí and ministers for foreign affairs have always participated. No doubt the Taoiseach will meet the British Prime Minister shortly after 4 July, whoever holds that office. I appeal to the Taoiseach, in his first engagement with the Prime Minister, to refer again to the legacy issue. As we know, the British Tory Government put this deplorable legacy Act through Parliament. It is perpetrator-centred instead of victim-centred. I am thinking of the lack of co-operation by successive British Governments with regard to giving access to files and papers pertaining to the Dublin-Monaghan bombings.
I am also thinking of the lack of adequate response by the authorities in Northern Ireland with regard to investigations into the Belturbet bombing of 1972 when two young teenagers were killed. The Taoiseach and his predecessors would have heard me speak often on these very important issues in the House. I appeal to him to ensure that in his first engagement with the British Prime Minister, the legacy Act is discussed. Thankfully, the British Labour Party has committed to repealing the Act. The fight for truth and justice must continue. One way of continuing that is for the British Government to repeal that deplorable legislation through which it has dismissed the victims and their families and is ensuring that perpetrators of the most vile crimes - perpetrators from the British state forces and those from paramilitary organisations - will literally be able to give themselves immunity from the most serious of crimes.
1:00 pm
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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This morning, I was talking to People Before Profit MLA, Mr. Gerry Carroll, about his involvement in supporting and standing with junior doctors who have been on the picket lines in a series of walkouts in the North over the failure to get decent pay and decent conditions. It is a very familiar story of the junior doctors saying they are not valued, they are working ridiculous hours and their pay has not kept pace with inflation. Many of them are just choosing to leave and go and work elsewhere, where pay and conditions are better. Interestingly, he also reported that, as confirmed by the audit committee, in the past five years €2 billion was sent back to the Tory Government for unspent capital payments. It is pretty ironic that €2 billion was sent back to the Tory Government when it cannot pay the junior doctors who actually keep the health service going. It is pretty outrageous.
I would like to hear whether the Taoiseach has any message to those junior doctors, because we support them. They are absolutely right. If we want a health service that functions in the North, we need to pay junior doctors properly and give them decent conditions. However, it is also maybe something we should think about down here. Last week, I met a junior doctor who is working here and who is homeless - actually homeless. I could not believe it. We have to address the situation of workers like junior doctors in the health service if they are forced to go out and strike, as they are in the North or, indeed, are suffering homelessness, as some are down here, incredibly.
Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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I, too, wish to raise the issue of Lough Neagh. People will remember the horrific scenes they saw last year with the toxic algae on the lake, mirrored to a slightly lesser degree in many other lakes right across this island, North and South. We know it is not a North-only issue. We know it is not an issue that respects any border. We know also from this morning's EPA report that water quality is not getting any better in the South. On some measures, it is getting worse. The quality of water has improved in 187 water bodies but has declined in 232 others. As the director of the EPA's office of evidence and assessment, Dr. Eimear Cotter, said, "having clean water is not an optional extra." It is not something that is nice to have; it is absolutely a vital public good. We need to do everything we can to protect what we have and then drive on with further improvements in water quality. We know what the problem is. We know what we have to do, which is to move away from an industrial model of agriculture with an over-reliance on artificial fertilisers. We also need to invest in proper sewage and water treatment facilities. Are these issues the Taoiseach has discussed with his Northern counterparts?
Cathal Crowe (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The enactment of Rishi Sunak's Rwanda Bill has put huge pressure on counties in the Border area. It has added to fear and anxiety for the migrant community. Many in Britain are seeing that migrating to Northern Ireland may now be their best option. This has manifested itself in many pressures here in the South.
Perhaps one manifestation of the problems we have seen in the past 48 hours has been at Phoenix House, which is a very large building in Shannon in County Clare housing 200 refugees. On Monday, letters were issued to all Ukrainian war refugees there to say they need to be out in two weeks and will be moved to Lisdoonvarna. Most of these people are working in factories and companies in Shannon. They have kids enrolled in schools. This is devastating. Instead of a community saying it does not want them, we actually have a community inundating Councillor David Griffin and I with messages saying these people work in the community, their children are being schooled in local schools and the community wants to keep them there. We have trade unions, locals and activists all telling us it is illogical to take them out of Phoenix House in Shannon and move them 60 km up the road. May I add that when they do move 60 km up the road, with them goes the employment. They will be on social welfare at that point because they will be in Lisdoonvarna, where there is no centre of employment. Can the Taoiseach please put eyes on this? Can he and the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, please intervene in this? It makes sense to keep them in Phoenix House rather than moving children, women and families 60 km up the road and discommoding them entirely. The community is very much speaking in unison to Councillor David Griffin and I on this matter.
Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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I want to send my support to junior doctors in Northern Ireland who are once again taking strike action this month. Their pay has, in effect, been cut by 30% over the past 15 years. The junior doctors strike is about pay, but it is about more than pay. It is about defence of the National Health Service. Low pay is combining with understaffing and underfunding to force many skilled staff to emigrate or leave the profession. I hope the upcoming UK general election can become a key focal point for industrial and political action, linking strike action by junior doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers with community campaigns to defend GP and mental health services in a movement to save the National Health Service.
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I will start with Deputy Ó Murchú. I thank him for raising the issue of Lough Neagh. Before we talk about cross-Border shared island and all-island units, I was delighted to be in Omeath at a project that I know the Deputy and John O'Dowd, Minister for Infrastructure of the Northern Ireland Executive, visited recently. I believe the Narrow Water bridge project is going to be transformational for the north east of the island. I am really looking forward to seeing that under way.
The Deputy quite rightly raised the issue of Lough Neagh, as did Deputy Paul Murphy and, yes, I have discussed this with the First Minister and deputy First Minister. It was also discussed at the most recent North-South Ministerial Council, which I attended as a Minister rather than as Taoiseach, and we did ask that Departments on both parts of the island would work together in this regard. I agree it is an environmental catastrophe we are seeing at Lough Neagh. As Deputy Murphy said, it is one that does not respect any border. We have asked. The First Minister, the deputy First Minister and I did speak about it when I was last in Stormont. I expect that we will get an update from our respective officials. What we are trying to look at here is whether there are areas of co-operation and collaboration we can do around this, but also more broadly around environmental matters. It simply makes sense to be working together on these issues. I note the EPA report published this morning. I heard the director of the EPA on morning radio. This is a very serious situation. The Government shares the disappointment and concern of the EPA in that regard. As Deputy Murphy said, we can point to areas where progress has been made, but there are more areas where progress has not been made and things have gotten worse. I acknowledge that. The Deputy did not mention the word "derogation", but I do not think it is a matter of choosing between improving the water quality and keeping our derogation. It is possible to do both, but we will need to keep the derogation and show we are making progress on water quality. That progress needs to be made, and that needs to happen much more quickly. Deputy Murphy referred to fertiliser and the likes. We have seen a 30% reduction in the use of chemical fertiliser over the past two years by Irish agriculture and we need to see that trend continue.
I thank Deputy Brendan Smith for raising BIPA. I very much enjoyed the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly being in County Wicklow. We were delighted to host it. I thank him for his leadership of it, along with Karen Bradley. Of course, I am not interfering in the British election at all. Regardless of the outcome of the British election, I look forward to meeting the British Prime Minister in July. I will be attending the European Political Community meeting there anyway and I hope to have an opportunity to meet whoever is the British Prime Minister. I would also hope to have an early bilateral meeting with the British Prime Minister post the general election. Of course, in any engagements I have, I will be making the points that Deputy Smith made in terms of our eagerness to continue at a senior level close political engagement with our nearest neighbours and how important that is for the future prosperity and well-being of both our islands and our peoples. The view of the Irish Government is very well-known with regard to the legacy Act.
We pulled all the normal levers, went through all the normal processes and, unfortunately, with a heavy heart, found ourselves having to lodge an interstate case against the United Kingdom with the European Court of Human Rights on 17 January. The deadline for intervention as a third party in this case expired on 2 May. A relatively large number of intended third parties have sought leave to intervene in the case and the court's decision is now awaited in that regard. The court will consult with the parties in due course with a view to fixing the procedures and the court will consider the admissibility of the Government's application in the first instance. Our view on the legacy Act is clear, consistent and in line with the views of all parties in Northern Ireland, who also oppose this Act for many of the reasons that Deputy Brendan Smith outlined.
I will not comment on industrial action. It probably strays well beyond the question. I note that there is industrial action. I note it is very important that people all look after their workforce but it is a matter outside my remit as Taoiseach in this jurisdiction.
On Deputy Cathal Crowe's point around Phoenix House, I will raise that with the Minister for integration. I need to be honest with people that as we are seeing the number of Ukrainian people in State accommodation reduce, we are reducing our footprint in terms of the amount of accommodation that we are leasing because there is a significant cost to the taxpayer here. I will raise this issue specifically, and the concerns raised to the Deputy Crowe and Councillor Griffin with regard to Phoenix House as well.
1:10 pm
Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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What of the junior doctors?
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I said I do not think I can address that.
Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach addressed that point. It was one line and the Deputy missed it.
Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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On the junior doctors, for clarity, I said that while it is important we all support people working in our public health service, it is not appropriate for me to comment specifically on industrial action. I would not appreciate it if people in other Executives commented on industrial relations matters in this jurisdiction.