Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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There are seven Deputies listed in regard to this matter. The Deputies have one minute each and will be called in the order in which they presented.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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A status red severe weather warning speaks for itself. Red is the highest alert and it is a warning to workers to stay safe, not to make unnecessary journeys and not to go to work unless it is safe to do so. The problem is that during the time of the red alert far too many workers were unable to heed the warnings given by An Taoiseach and those in authority because their employers instructed them to turn up for work. Some workers received messages telling them not to arrive too late for work, others travelled to work only to be sent home, many were under threat of having a day's pay docked if they did not turn up for work and for the vast majority of workers, particularly in the private sector, the days lost are to be taken from their annual leave allocation. For many people, particularly those in low paid jobs, this is very difficult because it means they will not be able to take leave they had planned to take at a later stage.

Long before the recent weather event, Sinn Féin moved a Bill that would address this issue. We want this Bill to be supported by Government. What practical measures will the Government take to ensure that we do not have these types of situations again? While most employers are reasonable and flexible, some have shown themselves not to be so. It is not good enough for the Taoiseach, when pressed on this issue, to say it is a personal matter for employers. It is not a personal matter. It is about the safety of workers. We must ensure that the safety of workers is front and centre. What does the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, and the Government propose to do on this issue?

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I want to speak about the areas in respect of which the Government has outsourced or privatised services, namely, health care provision and other social services and particularly about St. John of God in the north east. The other day, workers at St. John of God received a letter from their employer stating that those who were unable to attend work during the adverse weather event will not be paid. It also states that adverse weather warnings are now the norm and they cannot be treated differently from past weather events. This organisation is not only funded through the HSE, but it is State funded. Why are workers in this organisation not being afforded the same rights as others who work in the health care provision sector?

Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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We need to put in place a strategic plan to ensure everybody is assisted. In an article posted last weekend, a psychiatric nurse said that psychiatric nurses were bottom of the pile as they struggled to get lifts to work from emergency personnel. She also said: "For some unfortunate reason people must think mental health goes away when the snow comes. Or, maybe we are not seen as "real nurses"." Further on in the article she states: "These are the kind of nurses you are losing to other countries." Yellow, orange and red alerts aside, we need a plan to assist everybody such that no one is left limbo. People must know that if they cannot get to work, they will be protected.

In regard to the rural areas, surely when we experience these weather events the councils could contract farmers, who are the heartbeat of local communities, to assist them. I could go on about livestock, grants for sheds that have fallen down and so on. We need a strategic plan.

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister will be aware of the Trojan work done by many workers during this particular weather event. Many people turned up for work only to find themselves trapped there and unable to get home. Those who were trapped in their homes and unable to get to work are now being told that they are going to be out of pocket as a result. Some of these people are working for the State, indirectly. Many of them are working for agencies of which the Government has stated it is not the direct employer. The reality is that these people are employed by the Government indirectly, and they are now in a very shaky situation with regard to their pay.

At times like this, everyone pulls together. We depend on the goodwill of people and on people supporting each other. Earlier speakers referred to Meitheal, whereby everyone comes together to help each other. That is very relevant. It is exactly what happens in many parts of the country when people are under huge pressure. At the same time, we need a plan in place to ensure that people, particularly those working in essential services, know where they stand because right now they do not.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister for Health was quick to tweet a message which contradicted the message given by the head of HR in the health service, namely, that anyone who could not get to work or whose workplace was closed would receive emergency leave with pay. This put at ease the minds of a lot of health care workers, many of whom stayed in hotels, away from their families during a severe weather emergency. Today, workers in Our Lady's Hospice and Care Services, who provide palliative care and are at the front line of care delivery in this State but who could not get to their workplace during the storm, have been told that the time is to be taken from their annual leave. Families are already crippled with child care costs and high rents. They cannot afford to lose a day's pay. They deserve a modicum of respect. They deserve to be treated decently and not given mixed messages. The message that must go out from Government is that all workers, regardless of grade, group and so on, must be treated decently. The Government needs to acknowledge that it did not send out that message.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I pay tribute to the staff of the key agencies who responded to the recent storm and the extraordinary circumstances in which they did so. While essential workers in those agencies, some of whom are volunteers, were required and provision was made for them, there were many people who were forced to go to work who are not essential workers. Many of them were asked by their employers, some of whom are paid directly or indirectly by the State and in other cases by private business, to turn up for work during severe weather alerts and that is not good enough. Workers need to know where they stand. The Taoiseach's reference earlier to flexibility seems to imply and infer that there was an understanding that those workers, if their employers so wished, could ignore the red weather alert. That is not good enough. Workers need clarity and this should be provided for legislatively.

Maurice Quinlivan (Limerick City, Sinn Fein)
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I commend the emergency services on the fantastic work they did over the past few days, in particular Limerick County Council and Novas Initiatives who housed 78 people in emergency temporary beds over the past couple of nights.

The Government's response has been messy in some areas, in particular in regard to its announcement regarding the fuel allowance.

Under pressure from the Opposition, including Sinn Féin, the Government changed its mind and decided to give an extra week's payment. That was obviously done on the hoof because payments were not ready in all instances when people went to collect them. Indeed, some people have not yet got their payments.

Workers and businesses did not know where they stood when the red weather warning was issued. In the aftermath of the last extreme weather event, Storm Ophelia, Sinn Féin proposed legislation that would clarify the position but unfortunately the Government kept its head in the sand and refused to deal with it. Some businesses and farmers will find themselves in severe financial difficulty as a result of the damage and losses to their businesses and I ask the Minister to outline the measures that are planned to deal with this.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I will begin by paying tribute to the great work of the national emergency co-ordination group, the local councils, volunteers, the emergency services and all of those who went to work in very difficult circumstances to ensure that essential services were provided.

As Deputies will be aware, during the course of the recent extreme weather event the country experienced, a status red alert warning was issued by Met Éireann. Red alerts are rare and serious occurrences and they should not be taken lightly. The notice that was provided in the lead-up to the recent extreme weather event provided some time to allow businesses to put in place plans to deal with the situation. Throughout this recent event, the Government strongly encouraged businesses to pay careful attention to the information and updates that were issued from the Government’s national emergency co-ordination group following the severe weather warnings from Met Éireann.

The most important issue for Government, citizens and employers is that of safety. This is the paramount and overriding concern for everyone. In the context of a red weather alert, businesses were asked to carefully assess whether, given the constraints on public transport and the deteriorating snow conditions, it was possible or necessary for them to open. They were asked to examine alternatives to accommodate workers such as working from home where that proved feasible and practical, agreeing to work back working time lost and so forth. In such situations however, the Government cannot give blanket advice to all businesses given that some companies are engaged in essential services such as power generation, services to vulnerable people and so on. Ultimately, businesses have to make their own individual decisions based on their duty of care to their staff. I was encouraged to note that industry representative organisations, including IBEC and ISME, encouraged businesses they represent to show flexibility with workers and emphasised the need to be vigilant as regards safety for workers.

In general, under employment law there is no statutory obligation on an employer to pay an employee where that employee cannot attend for work. Payment of wages in situations where an employee is unable to attend work due to severe weather conditions is primarily a contractual matter between employers and employees. Many employers will have absence management policies in place to deal with such circumstances. Employers may have included policies and procedures in their contracts of employment to cover severe weather events to provide for certain flexibilities, for example, to allow the taking of annual leave, the possibility to work from home where feasible and practical or to work back the hours or days lost and so forth. I would always encourage employers to engage constructively with their employees in these kinds of situations, bearing in mind that safety is paramount.

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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I remind all Deputies that they have one minute each to respond. Deputy Cullinane is first.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister's speech today is an absolute joke of a response to what is a very serious issue. I am really angered by her response because essentially what she, the Taoiseach and the Government are doing is outsourcing what should be the first priority for all of us in this State, namely, the protection of workers, to employers. The Minister said that the Government cannot give blanket advice to all businesses and went on to talk about those who provide emergency services. Of course exceptions have to be made for such categories of workers but those who work in non-emergency services were being told, in some cases, to come to work and they do not have the luxury of avoiding their employers, as the Minister well knows. The Minister also said that ultimately, businesses must make their own individual decisions. No business should be allowed to make an individual decision that puts its staff at risk but many did. The Minister went on to say that there is no statutory obligation under employment law on an employer to pay an employee. Of course there is not; that is what happens in Fine Gael land, where employers do not have to provide for their workers. This response is an absolute joke. The Government cannot outsource this to the private sector and to employers any more.

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Go raibh maith agat.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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The Government must do its job and make sure that in future when these situations arise, workers are given respect and have the support of the law of the land-----

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy, please.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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-----and are not left to the mercy of some unscrupulous employers in this State-----

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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The time of the Deputy's colleagues will be taken up-----

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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-----who did not give workers the support they needed in these difficult times.

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Cullinane is depriving Deputy Munster.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I refer again to the St. John of God workers, who are dedicated health care professionals. They could not physically get to work during the recent adverse weather. Had they attempted to get to work, they would have been putting their own lives and limbs at risk. The St. John of God service is wholly funded by the State through the HSE. Why will the Government not afford the same protections to those workers? Will the Government introduce legislation to ensure that those workers engaged in private health care service provision are given the same protection as those in the public sector? Will the Government commit to doing that?

Pat Buckley (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister said in her statement that red alerts are rare but if they are so rare, surely we have enough time to plan properly. My mum is 72 years old and is a home helper. She did not know what to do over the weekend but she knew that she had to get to the house to help the family. We did not have a structure in place and were putting people of all ages under pressure to turn up to work for State bodies when the State itself had issued a red alert. On the one hand, we were telling people to stay at home but on the other hand, we were telling them to go to work if necessary. That is criminal.

We are playing with peoples' lives because the Government would not be able to organise the proverbial session in the distillery. The Government must get things right and get a grip on this or people will die when we get the next red warning.

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister said in her statement that during the recent red alert, businesses were asked, in the context of the constraints on public transport, to consider whether people should be asked to go to work but the difficulty was that many businesses insisted that people go to work. People have contacted me who were told to be sure to get to work but when they arrived there were very few customers and then they had no way of getting home. There were no taxis available and no way for them to get home. A young woman who works in a city centre restaurant left work at 1 a.m. on Saturday. There were no taxis or regular buses running but the airport bus was running from the city centre. She got on the bus, paid €7 and asked the driver to drop her off near her home which was on the route to the airport. The driver said "No", that the bus was travelling non-stop to the airport. She told him it was an emergency and pleaded with him but he told her that he could not stop to let her off. She had to get off the bus and walk almost two and a half miles to her home. That is the kind of problem that arose because no instruction was given, not only in terms of people getting to work but also in terms of getting people who were at work home again.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister said that the Government asked employers nicely but that did not work. The Taoiseach, during many photo opportunities where he read out the weather forecast and so forth, told people to stay at home for their own health and safety. However, many people cannot afford to take a day off work. What is the Minister's advice to them? How do they pay their bills? What are they supposed to do? Do they listen to the Taoiseach or do they look after the bottom line and their own bread and butter? Is the Government going to lift a finger to help them or is it going to just rely on the kindness of employers? As someone who represented workers for more than a decade, I can assure the Minister that the Government cannot rely on the kindness of employers.

We now have two grades of workers in the health service - those who have the protection of the Minister, Deputy Harris, and those who are denied it. That is not acceptable. Surely people should be observing the advice and should be able to stay at home and safeguard their own health, safety and welfare. They should not have to worry about having their wages docked.

Maurice Quinlivan (Limerick City, Sinn Fein)
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Hear, hear.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The question is what measures the Government will put in place to ensure workers are protected if a status red alert is issued. Essentially, the answer given by the Minister was a statement of the legal situation, the existing responsibilities of employers and so on. It did not really address the issue. Clear advice was offered by Met Éireann and those who are responsible for monitoring the weather, namely, that it was not safe to be out of doors or travelling and that we should not put ourselves at risk. However, contrary to this advice some employees outside of essential services were forced to go into work, directly or indirectly, even by the State itself.

The question, quite clearly, is what measures the Government is going to take. Red alerts are rare but they are likely to become more common. We have a Bill and a proposal. It may not be perfect in the eyes of the Minister but it is a proposal. There is currently no proposal from Government on the table as to how to address this contradiction, which I think the Government does need to address.

Maurice Quinlivan (Limerick City, Sinn Fein)
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There is nothing in the Minister's response for workers. Our proposal was designed to try to get some protection for workers when there is a red alert in place. During the severe weather event in Limerick, a number of people contacted me. One man in particular was on the north side of Limerick and had to go to his job in Kerry. Obviously, it was very dangerous for him to go down there on the roads. The warning was out and the Taoiseach had told people not to go out, but his employer was insisting he go to work. In Storm Ophelia, tragically, a number of people lost their lives going out on the roads during the red alert. Severe weather phenomena do not occur often, so when they do happen people are rightly concerned and need guidance on what to do. The Government needs to work better with the Opposition when we have solutions and ideas and not constantly dismiss them and only change its mind if the immediate circumstances forces it to do so. I hope the Government will now support the Bill from Deputies Adams, Munster and Cullinane and make sure there is some protection for workers and that we have clarity when red alerts are in place so workers will know what they need to do.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The vast majority of employers are actually very decent people and they do look after their workers. Government always encourages employers to take a long-term view of the working relationship, recognising that demonstrating concern for the welfare of employees and treating employees fairly translates into a better working environment to the benefit of both staff and employer. As somebody who worked as an employee all of my life before I came into the Dáil, I fully understand the concerns of employees but I have to say that normally if there is give and take one gets back three and four times if one treats one's employees with respect and consideration in difficult circumstances. We had very difficult circumstances-----

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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What has any of that got to do with the issue that we raised? It is pure and utter waffle. It is an insult to those of us who put down this Topical Issue.

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister without interruption. The Deputy might not like the response but I have no control over that.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Thank you, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle. The Government would also encourage employers and employees to seek to resolve any issues in this regard at the level of the employment. Where issues cannot be resolved locally, it is open to an employee to make a complaint to the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, under either the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997 or the Payment of Wages Act 1991.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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They should clog up the Workplace Relations Commission because the Government will not do its job. This is an "Alice in Wonderland" speech we are getting. It is ridiculous.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The WRC is an office of my Department and includes very useful information on its website aimed at employers and employees alike to cover extreme weather situations such as the recent events. The information on the WRC website is available at www.workplacerelations.ie. Where the employer and employee are agreeable, the commission may seek to resolve the matter by means of mediation.

Imelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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What about the workers at the State-funded St. John of God's?

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister without interruption.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Otherwise the complaints can be investigated by an adjudication officer of the WRC. It is important to note that every case is fact specific. The Government's role is to give the greatest level of clarity to employers as to the threats posed and the actions they should take themselves. I believe that over the last week this advice was clear and unambiguous and thankfully nobody lost their lives. The final decision must be left to employers themselves who know their own business best-----

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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Yes, they know their own business best. They put their business first. The Minister has let the cat out of the bag. It is not the workers but the business.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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-----and who in the vast majority of instances will make the best decisions in the interests of their staff, customers and public safety.