Dáil debates

Tuesday, 16 May 2017

Ceisteanna - Questions

Taoiseach's Meetings and Engagements

4:30 pm

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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5. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his conversation with the British Prime Minister, Ms Theresa May, on 18 April 2017 following her announcement of a general election. [21952/17]

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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6. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent engagements with the leaders of political parties in Northern Ireland on the formation of a new power sharing Executive. [22091/17]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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7. To ask the Taoiseach when he last spoke to Prime Minister May and the issues that were discussed; and if the Assembly formation in Northern Ireland was discussed. [22097/17]

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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8. To ask the Taoiseach when he last spoke to Prime Minister May; the issues that were discussed; and if the Assembly formation in Northern Ireland was discussed. [23020/17]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 5 to 8, inclusive, together. I spoke to Prime Minister May by phone on 18 April following the announcement of her plans to hold a general election in the UK. We discussed the upcoming Brexit negotiations and I reiterated our commitment to ensuring the best possible outcome for Ireland while negotiating as an integral part of the EU 27 team. We also discussed the need to recognise the close trading links between our intertwined economies and re-affirmed our commitment to an open Border and the retention of the common travel area.

We discussed the political situation in Northern Ireland and noted that the election would have a direct impact on the timing of the ongoing talks process. I expressed the hope that the talks could continue to a successful conclusion and I emphasised to the Prime Minister that a return to direct rule in Northern Ireland could not be contemplated.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Charles Flanagan, had a range of contacts with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and the political parties regarding the merits of continuing structured talks in the context of an election campaign. There was a widespread view that, given the demands and constraints of the election campaign, the best course was to pause the current talks until after the general election takes place on 8 June.

The new legislative deadline for forming the Executive is 29 June. There will, therefore, be sufficient opportunity after 8 June for talks to resume and for the parties, with the appropriate support and involvement of the two Governments, to re-engage on the urgent task of forming a new Executive and taking forward the implementation of outstanding commitments from previous agreements.

It is critically important to see devolved government restored and working effectively in the interests of the people of Northern Ireland, in particular in the context of Brexit. As a co-guarantor of the Good Friday Agreement, the Government is determined to uphold its principles and protect its institutions. We will continue to work to this end with the British Government to support and facilitate the parties in their efforts to reach agreement.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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If Members are amenable, we will take Deputies Adams and Howlin, followed by Deputies Martin and Burton. That might speed up the process.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the Taoiseach's assertion to the British Prime Minister that there should be no return to British direct rule in the North. He is very conscious of the reason why the political institutions fell. They fell on the back of the RHI scandal, an issue that, at the very least, is one of misgovernance. All of the others issues which have not been resolved have become part of the very necessary process of getting the institutions back in place. I look to the Government to assert its authority in this regard, in particular with the British Prime Minister.

The Taoiseach will also be aware that the families of 11 civilians killed by the British army in Ballymurphy 36 years ago had a significant breakthrough when they were told they would have a date for a full inquest in September. This brings us to the core of one of the issues that needs to be sorted out in terms of the institutions being put back in place. The Taoiseach has met these families and knows their stories. He has met victims of the IRA and loyalists acting in collusion with British state forces.

He knows that the commitments on legacy issues in the Stormont House and Fresh Start agreements are still not in place because the British Government refuses to act on its commitments. Tomorrow, we will have a reminder of this for the families of the 33 civilians and one unborn child who were killed in the Dublin-Monaghan bombings who will gather in Talbot Street to remember the victims.

Has this issue been raised by the Taoiseach? It is a matter between the two Governments. I have discussed this and our team has met the British 17 times about this issue, but the British Government refuses to act on its obligations. Can the Taoiseach give us assurances that he will do so and that those who have become victims or who were injured in the conflict will have whatever they want out of all of that in terms of justice and truth?

4:40 pm

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I am sure it is a disappointment to the Taoiseach that he is likely, which word I underscore, to leave office with a political vacuum in Northern Ireland on foot of the post-election failure to form an Executive. Efforts to form an Executive are now in abeyance until after the UK general election and a new deadline of 29 June, the fourth such deadline, has now been set. The Taoiseach has asserted that a return to direct rule cannot be contemplated, which sounds like the strong rhetoric that there cannot be a Border. That is well and good, but what does the Taoiseach see happening in the event that no Executive is formed on the expiration of the three-week gap following the conclusion of the UK general election and the reaching of the fourth and, we are told, final deadline for the formation of such an Executive? What is the position? Given the Taoiseach's assertion that direct rule cannot be contemplated, what, then, is contemplated?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In reply to Deputy Adams's opening question, I note that the date for the inquest in respect of the ten civilians killed in Ballymurphy is September of next year. I commend everyone who was so committed through their tragedy to seeing that a date would be fixed for the commencement of an inquest. The Dáil adopted an all-party motion in 2015 in support of the Ballymurphy families who continue to seek an effective inquiry into the incident in which those 11 people died. It is one of the 56 legacy inquest cases from the Troubles which are still waiting to proceed in Northern Ireland and the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Charles Flanagan, continues to raise the matter. I hope that in the new situation here and given the fact that we had Fresh Start in Stormont, I genuinely believe that contains the opportunity in its own way to deal with these legacy issues, sensitive and raw though they may be and will be when these things come to light. The timely holding of inquests is an effective part of the right to life as set out in Article 2 of the European Convention on Human Rights. At least, a commencement date has been fixed and is known, which is an important element.

In reply to Deputy Howlin, he knows what the options are. Either there is an election-----

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Another election.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----direct rule, or an Executive is formed. I hope the parties will now focus on the fact that they will be sitting down again a day or two after the result of a British general election in which it is estimated the Prime Minister will receive a very much enhanced majority over the one delivered in the last election. For that to happen, the parties have to want it to happen. That means, in particular, that the DUP and Sinn Féin must have a belief that they can put an Executive together. Of course, there are different political opinions and differences of emphasis in a whole range of areas, but that is no reason the parties cannot create an Executive to look at the question of distribution of finances for people to get on about their business. There is the whole issue of Brexit here, as well as those of the agrisector, trade unions and businesses. The people from Northern Ireland who voiced their opinions at the all-island civic forum on two occasions must be represented. They need an Executive to add to the voice of Government here in dealing with the outcome of Brexit when the negotiations start. I hope the two main parties will decide, irrespective of the differences they have, that it is imperative to put an Executive in place. I hope, and I have to believe, that will happen before the end of June.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In the past, Dublin and London have had a very close relationship and consulted actively with each other. Over time, personal relations have remained strong but the evidence of London consulting with Dublin has declined. The evidence of active engagement on Northern Ireland between the British Prime Minister and the Taoiseach has all but disappeared. Incredibly, it is nearly five months since the Executive collapsed, yet the Taoiseach and Prime Minister have failed to hold a single consultation with the parties. At a critical moment in the Brexit process, Northern Ireland has been without a voice at the table and has been pushed into an ongoing cycle of electioneering. The Taoiseach knows my view that the Executive was collapsed deliberately and that it should not have been. Brexit is far too serious an issue and it demanded a coherent voice from Northern Ireland, which it is not now getting.

As we heard last week, the European Union wants to listen, but Northern Ireland is saying nothing because the anti-Brexit majority in the assembly is not at work. Two months ago, the House was told that the re-establishment of the institutions was an urgent priority for the Taoiseach and the Prime Minister. Is a phone call of a couple of minutes duration real proof of that priority? Can the Taoiseach explain what is intended to ensure that this kind of drift ends quickly after the British general election? What efforts does the Taoiseach see being made to re-establish the Executive and, indeed, the assembly?

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Will provision be made for bilateral meetings between the UK and Ireland on those issues of greatest concern and greatest experience to both countries in the context of Brexit? I suspect Brexit will have a very significant influence on whether an Executive is put together in the North. As a result of the dangers the North faces in relation to it, it is difficult to imagine the parties will stand aside and refuse to be involved in an Executive.

I congratulate the Taoiseach on his involvement on organising Mr. Barnier's very welcome visit here last week. Notwithstanding his Gallic charm and the pains he took to point out that he will do the best he can, his best did not include any certainty on customs arrangements. Has the Taoiseach seen the recent publication by chartered accountants which referred to the preservation of the common transit area to enable goods to be shipped from Ireland to mainland Europe via the UK without customs penalties? There is a lot of detail on VAT. If we have to revert to free trade rules, the tariffs imposed could range from 2% up to 50%.

In terms of the North and various proposals on a separate strand that we in the Labour Party and others have made for the island of Ireland, where is it going to be at? Notwithstanding the fact that we are part of the EU 26, how is this going to happen without bilateral talks between the British and Irish, who actually understand this stuff in great detail?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Martin raised a very important point about the very good relations, with a few notable exceptions, between Ireland and Downing Street. Those have been very strong in the last number of years. I must note, also, that there is regular engagement at the very highest official level between here and Downing Street on all of these issues. I am sorry the Executive was collapsed and that a replacement was not created. Irrespective of how good or strong it was, it is better to have one than not. The only other options for the Secretary of State is to have more elections or to have direct rule.

The Executive is the best option of those. As I said to Deputy Howlin, if the DUP and Sinn Féin do not want to have an Executive then it cannot be formed. They have got to accept their political responsibility. They are elected to an Assembly, the purpose of which under the Good Friday Agreement is to have an Executive to direct affairs for Northern Ireland. As the Deputy knows, this means the North-South Ministerial Council, all of the different councils that can come from it, the issues that will arise because of cross-Border organisations and the administration that entails. Look at Brexit now. We will have to deal with the road to Derry and other cross-Border activities. The Government has opened a European Investment Bank office with a view to having major infrastructural projects which have streams of income to pay off those loans. That will involve, if we want to operate on a cross-Border basis, consultation with somebody. I would prefer to have an Executive of whatever shape or form that at least we could engage with properly and formally.

Deputy Martin raises a central issue here. The Executive is gone. It was collapsed and has not been restored. I hope in the two or three days after the British election that Deputy Adams will instruct his leader in the North, Ms O'Neill, and the DUP to get together, as these two parties are in a position to form an Executive in the interests of the peoples of Northern Ireland.

The answer to Deputy Burton's question is "Yes". We must have opportunities for engagement, as Deputy Martin pointed out, at official level but also at bilateral level. There will be issues that will have to be teased out, as the Deputy well knows from long experience. Ireland will be with the EU 26 in the formal negotiations being conducted by Michelle Barnier. In the course of the discussions there will, of course, be issues that arise that are best understood by the British and Irish because we have been dealing with them for very many years, and we will have to have the opportunity to engage bilaterally. Mr. Barnier will understand this as a complement or as a supplement to the formal negotiations he will lead on behalf of the European Union. The Deputy is right when she says there will be issues that will arise that may be specific and complicated and that will need to be teased out to arrive at a compromise between the Irish and English, so the answer to the question is "Yes".