Dáil debates

Tuesday, 16 May 2017

4:50 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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9. To ask the Taoiseach if he has made particular suggestions to the EU Council on the way the Government views the manner in which the EU should reform in the short, medium and long term. [21844/17]

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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10. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the EU 27 Council meeting on 29 April 2017. [21871/17]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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11. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the meeting of European Union Heads of State and Government held on 29 April 2017. [21877/17]

Photo of Seán HaugheySeán Haughey (Dublin Bay North, Fianna Fail)
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12. To ask the Taoiseach when the next EU Council meeting will take place. [23278/17]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 9 to 12, inclusive, together.

As I outlined last week in my statement to the House, I attended the meeting of the European Council on 29 April. This was the first meeting since Prime Minister May formally notified the European Union of the UK's intention to leave, thereby triggering Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union, and it was, therefore, a meeting of the 27 remaining member states.

We adopted the EU negotiating guidelines, and had a broad-ranging discussion about the process ahead. Presidents Tusk and Juncker also outlined the process and timelines around the relocation of the two EU agencies currently located in the UK.

I was pleased with the outcome of the meeting, including the overall EU approach to the withdrawal negotiations, and the acknowledgement of the need to address Ireland's unique concerns, as set out in the guidelines. I was also very pleased with the declaration which was agreed by the European Council, which provides reassurance that no provision of the Good Friday Agreement, including the provision relating to unity, will be undermined by the UK departure from the EU.

It was by no means a given that Ireland’s position would be seen as a priority for the negotiations but, thanks to our strategic, persistent and patient work, and the understanding and support of our European partners, Ireland's specific concerns were fully acknowledged in the guidelines. Supporting and protecting the achievements, benefits and commitments of the peace process; avoiding a hard border; and protecting the common travel area will now be addressed as priorities in the exit negotiations.

There was no discussion about the future of the EU at this April meeting of the European Council, but it has been considered and discussed at a number of meetings, including informal meetings of the European Council in Bratislava, in Brussels, in Malta and in Rome. In my discussions at these meetings, in my bilateral engagements with EU counterparts, and here in the House, I have consistently emphasised the need for the EU to focus on delivering for its citizens in areas where it can add real value. I have cautioned against pursuing deeper integration at this time and have instead recommended that we focus on where the EU is most effective, for example, in relation to the Single Market, the digital single market, jobs, growth and investment.

I did not have any bilateral meetings at the European Council on 29 April, although I did of course engage with my counterparts at the meeting and informally on the margins.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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We have only seven minutes left. Is it agreed that Deputies ask questions and give the Taoiseach an opportunity to answer? Agreed.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is because some of the replies have been very lengthy. This is part of the problem today I have noticed.

What the Taoiseach has said essentially is he does not have any proposal for reform of the European Union. He has not tabled any and he does not believe essentially there is any need for reform, other than to make the existing treaties work. The substantial majority of the Irish people would have welcomed the election of President Macron. One part of this is that he defeated the anti-European Union and nationalist agendas of the extreme left and the extreme right. He was unapologetically pro-European Union, which is a lesson to be learned, and it worked. His election is an opportunity for moving ahead with some reforms of the European Union, and Deputy Howlin mentioned some of this earlier. It may have to be done in parallel with the Brexit negotiations. Essentially Europe has to be made more relevant to the citizen, but that will require some reforms.

President Macron and Chancellor Merkel yesterday seemed to indicate the possibility of future treaty changes in the years ahead. This is very important for Ireland because, in our view, there is no realistic way to achieve special status for Northern Ireland and the Border region without some form of treaty change. In the Government document on Brexit, the point about our national interest in a strong European Union is repeated, but it is accompanied by no new ideas for strengthening the European Union, and that is required because the lesson from Brexit and other elections is a significant proportion of people are becoming disconnected from the European Union. Has the Taoiseach made any proposals, and I take it from his reply that he has not, concerning treaty changes? Has he conducted any analysis of what the current treaties allow and what they exclude in terms of a final Brexit deal? I have been pursuing this for some time. Will the Taoiseach explain why so far, nothing has been published on the constraints which may be imposed by limiting a deal to the current EU legal order and legislation? The deal has to be limited to the current EU legal order and legislation. What does this mean in constraint terms?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Whatever the attitudes of Ireland to treaty change, and I will be interested to hear the Taoiseach's view on it, I presume he has not offered any proposals that would lead to the requirement for another EU referendum in this jurisdiction. It is clear the new French President has gone to Germany to reform a Franco-German axis to bring about fundamental change in the structure of the European Union but most especially in the eurozone. I am concerned, because the Franco-German axis has always been the driver for real change, that there would be an agenda now for a two-tier Europe and that there would be new eurozone parliament, finance minister and bespoke budget, and other, non-eurozone, member states would be in a secondary position. We need to have detailed proposals and plans on all this because one of the things in the past that has concerned Irish citizens is that matters have been foisted upon them at the end and they have said "No" to that sort of suggestion. My judgment is what it is needed now is a refocusing on a social Europe, which identifies the needs of citizens, and on European solidarity, rather than any fundamental political restructuring of the Union.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I am sure the Taoiseach has been briefed on the remarks at the weekend by David Davis, MP, the British Minister with responsibility for negotiating Brexit. He said that Britain would not accept any rulings of the European Court of Justice.

He dismissed the Irish Government role in the EU Council's negotiating sequence as laid out in the Brexit guidelines and by Michel Barnier last week in the Oireachtas. He made it clear that he does not accept that the first items to be resolved are the Border and the divorce Bill for Britain. He described the sequencing for the negotiations as "wholly illogical and wrong", and he predicted the row of the summer if the EU persisted with addressing the Border and the divorce Bill first. He was especially disparaging towards any suggestion that a deal on the Border could be agreed before the issue of the Single Market, the customs union and a future free trade deal between the EU and Britain. The Taoiseach often says in response to questions that it is difficult to know how things will work out, that we do not know what the British will do and so on. This is their chief negotiating Minister. He has set out his position. It is not a new position. Will the Taoiseach set out the Government's response to these remarks?

5:00 pm

Photo of Seán HaugheySeán Haughey (Dublin Bay North, Fianna Fail)
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All of us who share European values welcome the election of Emmanuel Macron as President of the French Republic. He is a voice for tolerance in these difficult times. President Macron met with the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, yesterday. The Franco-German relationship is very much back on track and at the centre of Europe in the context of the discussion we are having now about the future of Europe. As Deputy Howlin said, there is talk by President Macron of reform of the eurozone. Following that summit yesterday I heard words such as "further integration", "federalism" and so on. That would be of concern to Irish citizens in particular who see the European Union as a partnership of member states. There is a possibility again of a multi-speed, in or out or first or second class citizens Europe. I asked the Taoiseach about that previously and he said that we have a multi-speed Europe currently, with some countries opting in and others opting out on various provisions, the eurozone and so forth but we need to be very cautious about this development. There is a new dynamic at the centre of the European Union now and Ireland needs to know where it stands in that regard.

There is also a discussion on treaty change. Any treaty change needs to be clearly thought out and debated with the Irish people because it will involve a referendum. However, if it comes to that would the Taoiseach agree that the Irish situation in regard to Brexit can be discussed in the context of treaty change if that is what transpires in due course?

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach is almost out of time so I will allow him two minutes.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We have been consistent on that. The European agenda should not stop with Brexit. It has to go beyond that and the completion of the digital Single Market, capital markets and the EMU, is the agenda for the creation of millions of jobs both in Europe and beyond. That agenda is in place and has been followed, although not to completion because it contains a number of challenges that need to be dealt with. We participate very strongly on that and as the Deputy knows, the last Eurobarometer poll showed that 88% of Irish people supported the concept of European membership and Ireland continuing to be a member of the European Union. That is where we stay.

I was glad to see the election of a French President who is clearly very much in favour of the continuation of the European Union because if that election had gone wrong and Marine Le Pen had been elected as President, withdrawing from the euro and from the European Union and dealing with the closing of borders would have created a fundamental collapse of the European Union itself.

There is a retrenchment here in terms of what the European Union actually means now and I have to say that for the first time since I began to attend European Council meetings, and the first meeting was in Malta, people began to realise just what was at stake. Do they want to hold on to a European Union and a Single Market or do they not? The point made by Mr. Barnier last week was that it comes to a point where people begin to say, "You have got 400 million or 500 million in a Single Market, freedom of movement of people, capital, services and all of that and do you want to throw it away for the sake of hundreds of thousands of jobs in small businesses?" Obviously, that is not the case.

We are very strongly in favour of the European Union and no other country, with respect to them, has the same solidarity as we have here because as the Leas Cheann-Comhairle will recall, in the middle of the recession we had to have a referendum on the fiscal stability treaty, which Deputy Howlin raised last week in terms of the fiscal rules. The people here could have given the Government a real kicking at the time but they decided that their place was with the euro, the eurozone and the European Union and they voted 60-40 in favour of that. Nobody here is in favour of treaties but sometimes if sovereignty is transferred in part to the European Union the Attorney General of the day makes a recommendation on whether a referendum is required.

Mr. Barnier pointed out last week that if we have a situation where Britain withdraws from the Union and there is a €12 billion hole in the budget every year, the countries that are paying do not want to pay any more while the countries that are receiving do not want to receive any less, so what do we do? Do we force countries to pay more or do we force countries to cut programmes? We can imagine what could happen in a country like Ireland with the CAP and all the different schemes available for farmers, from the uplands down to the lowlands and the tillage schemes.

I agree with Deputy Howlin because I believe there will be more emphasis on social Europe in the time ahead but we cannot have these ghettos or banlieuesin Paris and other places where people are left for 20 years without engagement from Government or Government listening to them. We cannot expect model citizens to come out of these areas at all times. That is where the difference of opinion, be it religious, political or whatever, arises. It is where people get driven right and left because of fear, frustration and vexation. I believe Governments will start to listen now to all the voices, discordant and otherwise, and deal with these issues.

Deputy Haughey raised the Franco-German relationship. I believe that will be very strong. Clearly, two big countries with big economies will get their way in the vast majority of cases and therefore relationships between small countries and the likes of France and Germany will be of particular importance. It was always my view that the European Union thrived when big countries worked with small countries in the interests of everybody. If we are all equal as citizens in the European Union and if everybody is to have the same opportunity, small countries need that opportunity. Deputy Haughey is right that there will be a cementing of that relationship and in that sense we will have to face change, but we should face it with courage. It does not always mean that there will be treaties but we should never be afraid to talk about the issues on the table because we might find we have many allies in small countries who would say this would not be in anybody's interest.