Dáil debates

Tuesday, 16 May 2017

Ceisteanna - Questions

Taoiseach's Meetings and Engagements

4:10 pm

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his summit meeting with the Dutch and Danish Prime Ministers; and the agreements and proposals made for future engagements. [21873/17]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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2. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his engagement with the Prime Ministers of the Netherlands and Denmark on 21 April 2017. [21876/17]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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3. To ask the Taoiseach if he has had any engagement with the President of the French Republic, Mr. Emmanuel Macron, since his recent election. [22965/17]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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4. To ask the Taoiseach if he has spoken to President Emmanuel Macron since his election. [23331/17]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 4, inclusive, together.

I travelled to The Hague on 21 April 2017 for a meeting with the Dutch Prime Minister, Mr. Mark Rutte, and the Danish Prime Minister, Mr. Lars Løkke Rasmussen. Our discussions were largely focused on Brexit, but we also touched briefly on EU-US relations. The meeting took place in the context of the Government's ongoing programme of strategic engagement on Brexit and was the latest in a series of meetings with my EU counterparts. I also met recently my counterparts in Germany, Belgium, Poland and Spain and the Presidents of the EU institutions and the head of the Brexit task force who was in Dublin last week. I have written to congratulate Mr. Emmanuel Macron on his election as President of the Republic of France.

The meeting in The Hague provided an opportunity to share our views on the issues arising from Brexit ahead of the adoption of the European Union's negotiating guidelines by the European Council on 9 April. Ireland has much in common with the Netherlands and Denmark, not just in terms of geographic proximity and strong trade and export relations with the United Kingdom but also in terms of shared perspectives on the importance of a liberal EU trade policy. Although Ireland, the Netherlands and Denmark are more likely than other partners to be negatively affected by the United Kingdom's decision to leave the European Union, we agreed on the importance of maintaining the EU27 unity that has marked our approach until now. I also took the opportunity at the meeting, as I do in all my bilateral engagements, to explain in some detail our unique concerns arising from Brexit, including protecting the peace process, avoiding a hard border and maintaining the common travel area with the United Kingdom. I outlined the particular implications for Ireland, North and South, and also described recent political developments in Northern Ireland. I am pleased that Ireland's unique concerns have been fully reflected in the guidelines that outline the European Union's approach to the withdrawal negotiations.

In this context, I am very grateful for the understanding and support of my Dutch and Danish counterparts, and all of my EU counterparts, as we progress work on these important and sensitive issues. It will be important to continue working with like-minded partners such as The Netherlands and Denmark and in the future to proactively defend our shared perspectives in the face of new voting majorities in the European Union. In the months and years ahead we are determined to protect and advance our interests, both within and through the European Union on the wider global stage.

4:20 pm

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We touched on this issue during statements on Brexit last week and the week before. It is clear to all of us in this House that with Britain leaving the European Union we need to forge deeper and new alliances, particularly with the small member states that share our view of the European Union. I warmly welcome the Taoiseach's contacts with the Dutch, the Danes, the Croatians and others and hope they will continue. In respect of his communication with Mr. Macron, subsequent to his election, which forms part of these questions and given Ireland's view of the next phase of EU developments, what is or will be the Taoiseach's view when he meets or speaks to him of his proposal that within the Eurozone there should be a Eurozone parliament, budget and finance Minister? This is the proposal he presented to the Chancellor, Dr. Merkel, in Berlin yesterday. Mr. Macron seems to be embarking on a two-tier Europe that would move the Eurozone closer towards federated states, with other member states being in a secondary position. He would have allies in holding that view.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for his comment on continuing connections with small states which is very important. The Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade with responsibility for European Affairs, Deputy Dara Murphy, has on several occasions been to all member states, particularly the small member states because of the implications of Brexit. As Deputy Brendan Howlin is aware, most of the economic reports indicate that the countries most adversely affected would be Ireland, The Netherlands and Denmark. I have already had a meeting with Prime Minister Michel of Belgium and we want to keep these contacts alive. I wrote to President Macron following his election and said we would be most affected by a hard Brexit and that we would appreciate and count on France's continued support in addressing the unique challenges we faced. I made the point that Ireland and France had always had a very warm relationship. France is a big buyer of food, services and so on from Ireland and we want to maintain that position. I do not favour having a federal Europe. Given how near the European Union has been to collapse in the recent period, the electorates in The Netherlands and France and in Austria with the election of its President appear to be refocusing on Europe. I see the same happening in the latest results in Germany which is moving towards a pro-European party. The Germans will make their choice in federal elections in September and I expect the Chancellor, Dr. Merkel, to be returned again. Given that there will more than likely be a very strong alliance between Germany and France and, as Deputy Brendan Howlin is aware, that the real reason for setting up the European Economic Community was to prevent the historic difficulties between France and Germany, it is important from the European Union point of view that there be strong countries which work with small countries for everybody's benefit.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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What is the Taoiseach's view of the Macron doctrine?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He made his comments in Germany. The Chancellor said some of these things could be considered, but we have always taken the view, as the Deputy did when he was President of the Council, that whatever views are put forward, Ireland is quite prepared to consider and talk about these things. However, we have very clear lines that we do not cross. On his first visit to Berlin as the new President, Mr. Macron set out several issues. We should wait and see how they are presented in more detail and then talk about them. We saw this happen before with the common consolidated corporate tax base and transaction taxes. Ireland has always had the capacity to say let us see what is on the line and talk about it. we then find out that other countries have similar views, for or against. That is how it works. I have never favoured having a federal Union.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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In the course of giving his report on his engagement with the Prime Ministers of The Netherlands and Denmark the Taoiseach said he had told them that all of Ireland's concerns were contained in the negotiating guidelines. That brings us to the essential flaw in the Government's position. The Dáil supports special status for the North within the European Union, but that is not within the negotiating guidelines. A majority of Members of the Legislative Assembly, MLAs, in the North support that position, but that is not within the guidelines. The people of the North voted to remain within the European Union, but that is not within the guidelines. I believe - the Taoiseach may agree - that one of the big concerns for us all is the likely impact of Brexit on the Good Friday Agreement. The British Government continues to make it clear that it will cut all ties with the European Court and the European Convention on Human Rights which are essential to the Good Friday Agreement. Last Friday the former British Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair, warned of the dire consequences of Brexit and acknowledged that the best way to deal with the North was to treat it as a special case. He also said, however, or is reported to have said that he thought the Good Friday Agreement would have to be amended. I suspect he may have misspoken. I certainly hope he did. Opening that Pandora's box would risk undermining the entire Agreement. Will the Taoiseach agree with me that there should be no tinkering with the Good Friday Agreement?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do actually. The Good Friday Agreement predates the decision on Brexit by 19 years and we have been very much at pains to point out that the Brexit referendum result does not influence, tinker with, or change the Good Friday Agreement in any way. As the two Governments are co-guarantors of the Agreement, we want it to be implemented in full. Protecting the gains of the peace process in Northern Ireland is one of the Government's front-line priorities in dealing with the impact of Brexit. That hard won peace which was founded on the Good Friday Agreement cannot be compromised. The Government will continue to ensure the EU-UK negotiations will take full account of the all-island issues and Northern Ireland, including ensuring the Good Friday Agreement is fully respected and upheld and that an open border is maintained. That is our position. I agree that the Good Friday Agreement is an internationally binding agreement which was brought together after many years of troubles. Those who put it together were visionary in the way they set it out. It was not written to be influenced by Brexit and the Brexit referendum result does not impact on it. We have maintained that separation very clearly in our discussions at European level.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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While Ireland is the member state most affected by Brexit, others have very real concerns. I know from my own discussions with the leaders of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe, ALDE, in The Netherlands and Denmark that they are supportive of Ireland's position and remain so, but they also expect us to understand their concerns.

They are supportive of Ireland's situation and remain so. They also expect, of course, that we would understand their particular concerns. It was a very worthwhile engagement by the Taoiseach with the Prime Ministers of both countries.

I do not know whether the Taoiseach is aware of today's ruling from the European Court of Justice in regard to the free trade deal with Singapore. It is quite interesting because it essentially means that any proper trade deal with the United Kingdom will have to be ratified by the parliaments of every member state, and maybe the regional parliaments as well, because the free trade agreement with Singapore cannot be agreed by the EU as an entity in itself. Rather, it must go back to the parliaments in member states. That relates to the jurisdiction of the investor class or the resolution of disputes, as well as non-directive foreign investment. It means we will have to get to specifics sooner rather than later and move away from the generalities on which we have been focused thus far.

I do not know whether the Taoiseach read Sunday's interview with Secretary David Davis. He raised a lot of red flags. First, he said the status of an EU citizen in the UK should be left until later in the process. He raised the possibility that such citizens would not have their current rights protected, which almost guarantees a veto at Council level. Second, he said that discussions on the Irish Border would have to wait until the new trade agreement is defined. This poses an enormous problem for us and dramatically increases the uncertainty.

Given all of this, can the Taoiseach outline very specifically the timetable and the process by which Ireland will table its proposals for how cross-Border relations will be handled? We know Ireland is a priority, but what does this mean in practice and how does it reconcile with what Secretary Davis has said?

4:30 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I did not hear the remarks of Secretary Davis. I note the judgment of the European Court of Justice today in respect of Singapore. That means that the EU-Singapore free trade agreement is a mixed agreement and there are elements which are of national competence and require national ratification. The same applies to the CETA agreement with Canada, which is a mixed agreement and will require national ratification in due course. In that case, we favour provisional ratification in order to ensure the deal works which is the best way of demonstrating the practical benefits for consumers and SMEs.

Deputy Martin is correct when he said we have to have the details sooner. It means that all parliaments will have to have international trade committees so that they are not left without adequate information as negotiations on trade deals proceed. This matter has been raised in the House. Deputies have said they do not know what is in an agreement, despite the fact that the information might be on a website or have been published in book form. Such agreements can be very complicated, as the Deputy knows. If there has to be ratification by all of the parliaments, that will probably delay the process but may have a benefit in that parliaments would be informed on a rolling basis of what is being discussed so that their international free trade committees or whatever else would be very well-informed about the process.

We have dealt in considerable detail with our counterparts in London and Belfast in respect of the Border issues. Deputy Martin is aware that the three issues are the Border, modalities and liabilities about whatever contractual obligations the United Kingdom has from joining the European Union and rights and reciprocal rights for people who live in European countries. Since 1922, we have dealt on a bilateral basis with Britain via the common travel area, which does not involve just travel but also residency, the right to work and social protection and benefits. The British Government has agreed with what we have said, namely that there is no return to the Border of the past.

We still do not know what the future structure of trade will be or what is being proposed by the United Kingdom with the European Union. That is where the complexities will lie. We will not get to that issue until there is substantial progress on the first three priorities I outlined. We have a political imprimaturin respect of the Border. It is how we make that work after that which is the issue. There must be no return to what was there before. How can we do that when we still do not know whether there will be tariffs or a collapse at the end of 2019, which I hope there will not be, when the first phase of the withdrawal has finished?