Dáil debates

Tuesday, 7 March 2017

Ceisteanna - Questions

Departmental Staff Data

3:55 pm

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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3. To ask the Taoiseach the number of whole-time and part-time civil servants who were working in his Department on 22 February 2017. [10023/17]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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4. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on current staffing levels in his Department; and if he envisages changes in view of the upcoming Article 50 negotiations. [11421/17]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 and 4 together.

On 22 February 2017, there were 197 civil servants, established and unestablished, working in my Department. One hundred and seventy-three were working full-time and 24 were working part-time. This equates to a whole-time equivalent of 189.2 civil servants working in my Department.

I have restructured my Department to ensure Brexit is treated as a crucial cross-cutting issue, including by creating a newly amalgamated international, EU and Northern Ireland division, under a new second Secretary General. In addition, my Department is in the process of recruiting additional staff. Among the business areas that will benefit from the additional resourcing are the international, EU and Northern Ireland division and the economic division. This is to ensure an effective, whole-of-government response to Brexit.

While responsibility for the strategic oversight for Brexit rests in my Department and preparations are co-ordinated through the dedicated Cabinet committee that I chair, it is worth emphasising that this is an all-of-government issue and each Minister has an important role to play. Since the UK referendum, the EU policy role of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has been strengthened, as have the roles of other key Departments and agencies at home and abroad. Each Department has developed a thorough analysis of the critical issues that need to be addressed in its sectors.

The 27 Heads of State and Government will meet shortly after Article 50 has been triggered to agree and adopt guidelines defining the framework for the negotiations. The General Affairs Council, GAC, including Ministers from the 27 member states, will then adopt more detailed negotiating directives and will authorise the opening of the negotiations. The European Council will discuss the negotiations on a regular basis and will update the guidelines and directives as required.

The European Commission will lead the technical negotiations on behalf of the Union. Its team will be led by Mr. Michel Barnier, as head of the Commission's task force on Brexit, and it will include a representative of the rotating Presidency of the Council. Progress will be monitored and guidance will be given to the Commission, by a dedicated working party involving all member states, which in turn will report to COREPER, the committee of permanent representatives or ambassadors to the European Union, which, of course, includes Ireland's permanent representative to the European Union. It is expected that the working party will meet at least once a week. The negotiations will, therefore, be under the overall strategic and political guidance of the European Council and the General Affairs Council – representing the member states - and will be scrutinised in great detail at senior official and ambassadorial levels. We will pursue our national interests and priorities fully within this framework.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Along with many other Members, the Taoiseach and I have been involved with a number of EU Presidencies. The Taoiseach will recall that in the year and a half in the run-up to a Presidency, enormously detailed arrangements were made right across the Government and within the structures of government. A particular feature was the employment of special staff.

Among the special staff who will be required to deal with Brexit will be those with experience of trade negotiations and also, I would imagine, lawyers with experience of trade legislation and possibly trade negotiations, in addition to lawyers with experience of the technical complexities of current and likely EU structures. Has the Taoiseach attempted to recruit additional experts?

With regard to Presidencies, I believe the Taoiseach will agree that there are fine members of the diplomatic service in the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. I recollect that where very significant people with significant sets of skills in that Department or others were about to retire or had recently retired, they were in many cases brought back on temporary contracts for the purpose of beefing up the Irish team.

Has any consideration been given to doing that in the context of the challenges that undoubtedly face us with Brexit?

4:05 pm

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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An bhfuil an Taoiseach sásta go bhfuil go leor ó thaobh foirne de le déileáil leis na ceisteanna móra agus go bhfuil an saineolas sa Roinn maidir le Brexit, na gnéithe difriúla a bhaineann leis agus na hathraithe difriúla a bheidh i gceist? Mar shampla, beidh torthaí as cuimse maidir le poist agus slite beatha do saoránaigh ar an dá thaobh den Teorainn. Tá mé ag tagairt, mar shampla, do na mílte fheirmeoir beaga a mbíonn ag taisteal timpeall na Teorann, iad siúd atá gafa i dtionscal maidir le bainne ina measc. Téann 600,000 lítear bainne trasna na Teorann gach bliain. Déantar táirgeadh air sa Stát seo chun púdar bainne a dhéanamh roimh é a easpórtáil. Caithfidh an Taoiseach smaoineamh a dhéanamh ar na rialacha agus na táillí a bheadh i gceist air sin de réir chóras an WTO – 45% a mbeadh i gceist. Beidh teip iomlán ar an tionscal bainne ach go háirithe más rud é go ngearrfaí an táille sin air.

An bhfuil na saineolaithe ag an Taoiseach chun déileáil leis na féidearthachtaí ar fad de thairbhe Brexit? An bhfuil sé ag déileáil leis sin?

Deir an Taoiseach nach mbeidh Teorainn chrua ann. Cad faoin scéal atá sna meáin le déanaí go bhfuil lucht custam ag taisteal timpeall na Teorann ag lorg suímh nua chun botháin custam a thógaint? An bhfuil an scéal sin fíor nó an bhfuil sé ag tarlúint?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Is cuimhin liom go maith nuair a thosaigh an Taoiseach amach ina phost in 2011 go raibh sé ag gearráin maidir leis an méid státseirbhísigh a bhí i Roinn an Taoisigh, go háirithe roimh a era féin. Tá fhios agam nach raibh mórán ann sa ghearrán sin ach cleasaíocht polaitíochta, mar is eol dó. Ní Roinn ollmhór atá sa Roinn. Dúirt an Taoiseach go raibh 197 fostaí ann. Tháinig cuid státseirbhísigh ó Roinn Gnóthaí Eachtracha agus Trádála chuig Roinn an Taoisigh. D’fhill roinnt daoibh ar an Roinn Gnóthaí Eachtracha agus Trádála. I gcomhthéacs Brexit agus an t-idirbheartaíocht a bheidh ann, i mo thuairim tá géarghá ann níos mó státseirbhísigh a mhealladh chuig Roinn an Taoisigh, go háirithe daoine le scileanna speisialta. Tá fhios againn go mbeadh idirbheartaíocht tábhacht ó thaobh cúrsaí trádála de. Tá dainséar ann nach bhfuil an expertise agus daoine le saineolas speisialta a bhaineann leis an gceist sin ann faoi láthair.

Tá cinneadh déanta ag an Taoiseach go mbeidh a Roinn freagrach as idirbheartaíocht maidir le Brexit agus go mbeidh an Roinn sin an ceann is tábhachtaí ó thaobh Brexit. Níl aon Aire speisialta ann agus ní bheidh. Is é Brexit and dúshlán is mó atá ann don tír le fada an lá. Tá muid buartha nach bhfuil dóthain státseirbhísigh ann maidir le Brexit. Tá gá ann i bhfad níos mó a dhéanamh agus struchtúr níos láidre a chur i bhfeidhm ionas go mbeidh muid réidh agus cumasach ó thaobh na hidirbheartaíochta.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Tá cúig nóiméad fágtha agus tá ceithre go leith nóiméad ag an Taoiseach. Ina dhiaidh sin ní bheidh ach leath nóiméad fágtha. Mar sin, is é seo an freagra deireanach ón Taoiseach.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Burton raised a valid question about the position that always applied in the case of the EU Presidency, and the troika that was lined up with the incumbent, the previous holder and the state due to hold it. In the first half of 2013, when we held the Presidency, there was a massive response from the public service to deal with that in very difficult circumstances and to put together a budget of €960 billion. The position is that as Article 50 is due to be triggered in a short while we will ensure we get whatever extra staff that will be required. At present, the European affairs section has the necessary skills for dealing with this. The officials who work there have experience and expertise in European and foreign affairs, bolstered by the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade and the Minister of State with responsibility for European affairs, who attends the General Affairs Council, GAC, on a regular basis, in terms of knowing what is happening in this regard. With regard to academic qualifications, a number of that team have graduate and postgraduate qualifications in areas that are of direct relevance to this work, such as a master's degree in European interdisciplinary studies from the College of Europe, a master's degree in human rights and democratisation, a master's degree in economic policy studies and a BA in European studies. In respect of international relations, a number of the team have graduate and postgraduate qualifications in areas that are of direct relevance. These include a degree in international development and food policy, a PhD in political science, a master's degree in economic science in policy analysis and degrees in economics, history and politics, which include modules on international relations.

In respect of data protection, which is such a big issue at present, there is significant experience of working on projects in economic and enterprise development, European affairs and social policy both within the Department and with other public and private sector organisations. The members of the team have developed a strong understanding and knowledge of data protection related issues through a combination of on-the-job learning, attending a wide range of seminars and so forth. In terms of academic qualifications, team members have graduate and postgraduate qualifications in areas of direct relevance, such as a master's degree in European economic and public affairs, a diploma in applied European law and a doctorate in governance.

The corporate affairs division is responsible for finance, ICT, human resources and corporate governance. Their qualifications include third level qualifications such as MSc in computer science, MBS in change management and organisational studies, postgraduate diploma in public management, BComm specialising in human resources and diploma in human resource management, as well as accounting technician and financial management qualifications. These staff continue to develop their skills by engaging in online research.

Once Article 50 is triggered, if we need extra specialist staff we will get them. We will keep Members informed. As I said, Deputy Howlin and Deputy Martin have been given briefings and reports have been produced online. When Article 50 is triggered the Government will respond, through all the background work that has been done, to the detail of what will be contained in the letter from the Prime Minister.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Does the Taoiseach have a date for that yet?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There is no date yet. It was expected to be around 9 March but the vote in the House of Lords might have put paid to that for a while. When it is triggered the Government will respond directly and in far greater detail, because then we will know with clarity what the British Government is seeking.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Taoiseach did not mention a barrister, solicitor, a chartered accountant or a management accountant.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I did.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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In particular, the Taoiseach did not mention any trade lawyers. The EU has 7,000 trade lawyers. Do we have any?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am quite sure we have. I mentioned some of the qualifications and expertise that are available. When Article 50 is triggered, we will get whatever expertise is required. We cannot afford not to.