Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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68. To ask the Minister for Environment, Community and Local Government the extent to which it is proposed to reduce the numbers on local authority housing lists by way of a public capital programme, excluding voluntary agencies, on an annual basis over the next five years; if it is expected that new measures are likely to be taken in order to make a serious impact on the large numbers of local authority housing applicants currently dependent on private rental accommodation, with support to the extent of €450 million per annum from the Department of Social Protection; if further cognisance is taken of a further 20,000 families not on the local authority housing lists but dependent on unsupported private rental accommodation in a rapidly escalating rental market; if a full review will be undertaken of the policies pursued previously leading to this crisis situation in order to set in train an appropriate response; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25428/14]

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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70. To ask the Minister for Environment, Community and Local Government the extent to which adequate existing housing stock has been identified throughout the country in areas most affected by the severe housing crisis with a view in the short term to meeting the most immediate needs by way of a public housing programme; if further consideration can or has been given to the need to build up a land bank to meet the future housing needs of those already on the local authority housing lists and those likely to come on to such lists for a variety of reasons; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25427/14]

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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75. To ask the Minister for Environment, Community and Local Government the total estimated number of social houses due to be constructed under the Governments Construction 2020 plans; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25367/14]

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The purpose of my questions is to ascertain the extent to which short, medium and long-term plans for social and affordable housing can be identified and produced. I commend the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, on the way she has been dealing with the housing emergency which she inherited at a time when few resources were available. I am anxious that cognisance be taken of the supports available from the Department of Social Protection, which will diminish in time with the increase in social and affordable housing.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 68, 70 and 75 together.

On 14 May 2014, the Government published Construction 2020: A Strategy for a Renewed Construction Sector. Action 1 of the strategy provides that a national framework for housing supply is to be established on a statutory footing with an annual national statement of projected housing supply and demand published every June. I have asked the Housing Agency to take the lead in implementing this action.

The proper management of all State land is critical and, accordingly, both lands that have been transferred to the Housing Agency and local authority held lands suitable for development will be the first sites considered in any future targeted social housing building programme. My Department’s annual housing land availability survey gathers information from local authorities to inform the publication of the amount of zoned residential land in their areas that is currently serviced. It is currently estimated that there is in excess of 25,000 hectares of undeveloped residentially zoned land nationally, which equates to a capacity for over 500,000 new homes based on a national average of 20 units per hectare. This capacity is considered sufficient to meet the housing requirements nationally for in excess of the next ten years.  In line with the commitments under the Construction 2020 strategy, a housing supply co-ordination task force for Dublin has been established with an immediate focus on addressing supply related issues.

Under action 8 of Construction 2020, a social housing strategy is to be published by quarter 3 of 2014. To assist in the development of the social housing strategy, the Housing Agency has invited submissions by 31 July 2014. This invitation for submissions is available at the following website: .

Action 9 of Construction 2020 provides that a review of Part V of the Planning and Development Acts, which, inter alia, deals with affordable housing and social housing gain from private development, will be completed by the end of quarter two of 2014. It is anticipated that any legislative changes required on foot of the review will be incorporated into the general scheme of a planning Bill which is currently in preparation.

I am acutely conscious of the difficulties caused by rising rents and of the problem of sourcing suitable accommodation, especially in Dublin and other urban centres, with growing evidence of increasing rents affecting more vulnerable tenants, such as those in receipt of rent supplement. I have asked the Private Residential Tenancies Board, PRTB, to carry out a focused piece of research that will explore options to address the difficulties being experienced in segments of the private rented sector and report to me with policy recommendations in the coming weeks. On 30 April 2014, the Government approved the publication of the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2014, which, when enacted, will provide for the introduction of the new housing assistance payment, HAP, scheme. HAP will provide a new framework for the provision of rental assistance and will, in as much as it can, facilitate the removal of existing barriers to employment by allowing HAP recipients to remain in the scheme if they gain full-time employment.

I expect the final output across all social housing programmes for 2014 to be in the region of 6,000 new housing units. The number and method of delivery of social housing units in future years is determined in the course of the annual Estimates process and will be informed by the social housing strategy currently in preparation. It will set out clear objectives for delivery over the next five years.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for her reply. The projected 6,000 new units per year are welcome but that is approximately 50% of what is required if serious inroads are to be made on local authority waiting lists over the next five to six years. To what extent has the precise number of required social and affordable houses been identified, given that approximately 90,000 people are already on various local authority housing lists? There are at least another 20,000 vulnerable people in private rented accommodation. These people are working but are not in receipt of rent support so they may find themselves in a very challenging position as time moves on. Will the Minister of State identify a precise number of houses to meet the medium-term challenge?

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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I thank Deputy Durkan for his comments. The Housing Agency produced some fairly specific figures recently on projected needs over the next number of years. As I stated, work is also being done on what can be done for people in private rented accommodation and particularly the lower end of that sector. We know the number of people are on various schemes and systems, as well as the waiting lists, so we know what are the needs. Our difficulty is funding the supply. I mentioned to Deputy Stanley the various ways in which we want to construct houses for people, and we will have to try to be more imaginative in this respect than we have been in the past as we cannot significantly increase capital budgets for the State because of restrictions. We are using every possible method and we are open to any suggestions as well.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I share the concerns of Deputy Durkan, a Government party Member, who is exasperated and at a loss in trying to find out the exact housing allocations necessary for this problem and the plans for them to be delivered. I also echo the concerns of Deputy Stanley when he spoke about County Laois, and the issue is no different in Offaly and many other counties throughout the country. The problem is even greater in Dublin.

Since the Government took office, we have had a 2011 housing strategy and we were told there would be a social dividend from NAMA. We have also had the Construction 2020 plan and a housing Bill to be finished later today which, as somebody noted in last week's debate, contains no houses but rather deals with housing supports. That is instead of addressing housing needs. As I indicated last week, there is a sleight of hand with regard to waiting list figures, with people coming off a list if they get a short-term solution to a long-term problem.

The Minister of State has reiterated the big issue of funding time and again.

The Minister of State's line Minister has not been successful in sourcing adequate funding to address this problem in a meaningful way. It is not just a problem, it is a total crisis. If funding could be derived from the National Pensions Reserve Fund to fund the establishment of Irish Water and all that is associated with it, surely the Cabinet could make an effort to find funding from a similar source to address this issue, which must be addressed, taken seriously and dealt with.

The platitudes can stop. I spoke to housing agencies only this morning, for example, Alone, which works with the elderly in Dublin. It was consulted on a Friday about making a submission on policy and had a weekend in which to write a submission. There will be a housing summit later this week and we have no idea of its format. Maybe the Minister of State will enlighten us about its process.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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The housing summit will be held on Friday and is very much concerned with looking for proposals and ideas. I am sure the Deputy will have an opportunity to feed into that. The strategic investment bank will be able to lend to builders. We have set it up. I could refer to history although I really do not want to do that but the Deputy raised the issue of funding. He knows very well that the absence of capital investment in housing, not just in the past three years but prior to that, under the Fianna Fáil-led Government, was due to the constrictions on capital which were part of the agreement with the European Commission.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State should not rise me.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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That is a fact. Very few social houses were built at a time when there was a huge amount of construction going on-----

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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If the Minister of State wants to make a comparison, she should compare like with like.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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-----in what are now unfinished housing estates in various parts of the country.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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We had that battle before the last election.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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If the Deputy is going to criticise us for not having capital to spend on housing, I am going to tell him why that is.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am criticising the Minister of State for not sourcing it.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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We have commenced mainstream construction but the quickest way to provide houses this year and next is to address the empty, boarded-up local authority houses. That is why we have directed a significant sum for this year and next year to those, which will bring more than 1,700 units back into use. Then we will start construction. As soon as we can get funding, we will construct more. We could not do it up to now because we were constrained.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I cannot but be moved by the comments from the Opposition given recent history because the whole social housing problem that arises now is due to the failure over a 15 year period to have any proper housing strategy. That is what the present Government inherited. The Minister of State could be forthright, admit that and say it to the public because we will not do anything meaningful about this issue unless and until we devise a system that will deal with it.

The National Treasury Management Agency (Amendment) Bill, passed last week, might be used as a vehicle to try to ensure funding is made available, because funding is obviously a problem, for the direct construction of affordable and local authority housing in the old-fashioned sense. At present there is no competition between those in private rented accommodation, the investors who own that accommodation and the rest of the community. There is nobody to provide an alternative in that sector. It is completely controlled by the markets, the banking sector and the rising rents. Those people are in a very difficult situation.

Would it be possible to pursue vigorously the use of the National Treasury Management Agency, NTMA, to ensure that funds are made available?

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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We have commenced that discussion and will continue it in conjunction with my Government colleagues. The strategic investment bank will be able to lend to builders, there is extant planning permission for a large number of units throughout the country but particularly in the greater Dublin area, including County Kildare, I hope.

We want to see the construction industry up and running. Part V should have delivered a lot of units during the building boom as well but it did not. It delivered a very small percentage of units in comparison with the number built.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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Wexford County Council applied for funding of €733,000 this year to return units to people for housing but was granted only one third of that sum. Given that this is one of the cheaper ways to create housing, will the Minister of State explain why she did not give the council the rest of the money?

I want to highlight something Michael Taft, research officer at the UNITE union, brought forward lately when he wrote on UNITE's website:

It states:

If by this time next year if [sic] there are people still homeless, it’s because the Government made a policy choice. €7 billion is being spent [this year] on paying down debt ... It comes from the Government’s considerable cash balances. At the end of 2013, the Government held €18.5 billion in cash. This is made up of money that has already been borrowed and revenue from bank investments ... The Government is taking the €7 billion and paying down Government debt to lower the debt/GDP ratio ... So let’s take half of that money the Government is using to pay down debt - €3.5 billion – and use it to build social houses, house the homeless and put some people back to work ... The €3.5 billion would build approximately 20,000 social houses ... The impact on employment would be considerable. 35,000 direct jobs would be created – that is, jobs on site. NERI estimates further job creation given the impact on downstream sectors (building supplies, transport) and the additional demand injected into the economy.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, United Left)
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I was going to put the same question to the Minister of State. Why did the Government choose to pay down €7 billion of the debt? Why was some of that money not used to build social housing? Has the Government been in contact with the European Investment Bank about the €500 million that could be accessed there? Is it thinking about using money to buy properties, apartments or houses? That would allow people to move into accommodation immediately and meet some of the need that exists. Families are finding themselves out on the streets every single day of the week. There is a concern that the long-term homeless could be left behind because of the focus on trying to get families into homes. They have spent years waiting and campaigning for a roof over their heads. They have produced many brilliant programmes and magazines over the years. I would like to hear what the Minister of State has to say about these matters.

Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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I would like to refer briefly to the whole housing issue. The figures that have been given by the Minister of State with regard to new builds are tiny. They are a drop in the ocean. In the case of in County Laois, the figure will be six in 2014 and 2015. The money that is being provided is welcome. I think a figure of €70,000 has been mentioned with regard to County Laois. This shows the number of voids in the county is quite small, which is a good thing. Something more substantial is needed in this context. I suggest that the Minister of State will have to look off the balance sheet. Along with other Deputies on this side of the House, I have suggested some methods of trying to raise money off the balance sheet and start a major social housing programme. We are facing something like what we faced in the 1950s and the 1930s. There are huge problems out there. I do not think the scale of this massive problem has been absorbed by the Government. I accept that the problem was already there when the Government came into power, but it has grown since then. There is always a problem with a shortage of social housing, but there is an absolute crisis at the moment. It has to be dealt with by the Government. It cannot be left to the voluntary agencies, which are building up huge stocks of housing. I do not have a problem with the voluntary agencies per se. I want the problem to be solved. The Government is brewing up a problem down the line. Neither the local authority nor the Government at national level has control over the housing stock. They do not have the title deeds of the houses. This is a huge problem that is brewing up in the housing sector. It would not exist if the Government or the local authority had the title deeds, or if the tenant purchased the house and wound up with the title deeds permanently. The Minister of State needs to watch that and be careful as she moves forward.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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One of the criteria that apply when the voluntary agencies receive funding is that the housing has to be provided for social housing use. In addition, they are not for profit. Therefore, those houses are there for social housing purposes.

Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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The Government has very little control over them.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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I would like to respond to the general issue about paying the banks that was raised by a few people. Unfortunately, there was such a thing as the bank guarantee and there was such a thing as the troika agreement. We were constrained by those matters. I do not want to go back over that again.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Government has the banking inquiry for that.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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That is one of the reasons we have not been able to spend a whole lot of capital State money on house construction.

Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)
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The money to which we refer is separate from the troika money.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, United Left)
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We are talking about the €18.5 billion in cash.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour)
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I repeat that the strategic investment bank, which was raised by somebody, will be lending to builders to build houses. We have applied for €100 million from the European Investment Bank, about which Deputy Joan Collins asked. We expect to get an answer in the late summer.

The funding will mainly go towards refurbishing local authority flats in the cities. Should we be successful in securing that funding, as we hope to be, it will involve a significant number of units.

Regarding the purchase of accommodation, I recently gave funding for the purchase of houses for people with special needs, physical disability and so on. With regard to homelessness, we have an implementation plan in place. Deputy Joan Collins raised the situation of those persons whom one might call the more traditional homeless. Their needs are central to our implementation planning. We are pursuing a housing-led approach to move them out of temporary hostel-type accommodation as soon as possible and into supported housing.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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As Deputy Mary Lou McDonald is not in the Chamber to table Question No. 69, we will proceed to the next question.