Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I support the Sinn Féin amendment to the Fianna Fáil motion, which is largely in line with my thinking on the issue. The Minister, Deputy Phil Hogan, admitted on television that some families will be paying up to €450 per year in water charges. With the Government adhering to its target of taking €500 million from this tax, it is inevitable that some people will be paying more than others. The Minister is coming back to rifle through the pockets of ordinary people who cannot see how they will pay this additional tax in their current circumstances. This is not about conservation; it is simply an austerity tax. If the Government really wanted to encourage water conservation, it would have put the €1 billion it is spending on meters and the €140 million it spent on consultants into fixing pipelines and preventing the loss of 40% of our expensively treated water into the ground.

I am delighted to see people coming out in housing estates in Cork and Dublin to protest against the installation and implementation of water metering. I fully support their action. These people are not fooled by the sham battle in which Fine Gael and the Labour Party engaged in recent weeks and all the talk of protecting vulnerable people, including the elderly and children. This is not about the protection of vulnerable people. It is about the protection of vulnerable election candidates on the doorsteps. After all, water charging is one of the issues most frequently raised by voters. The two-year review that has been indicated will see everybody paying much higher water charges thereafter.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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When the populations of the three Dublin local authority areas succeeded in forcing the Government of the day to abolish water charges in 1996, the then Minister for the Environment and now Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Brendan Howlin, introduced a new system of local authority funding. I have a copy of the KPMG report the Minister commissioned at that time, which stated that installing domestic water meters would be unproductive, inefficient and not worthwhile based on the revenue likely to be generated. Instead, the Minister proposed a mechanism whereby the rates support grant to local authorities was increased by allowing them to keep all of the proceeds of motor taxation. That taxation has increased four times since 1997. How dare the Minister, Deputy Phil Hogan, and his Government claim that Irish citizens do not pay for water? The current proposal has nothing to do with paying for water and is, in fact, simply another tollbooth on a necessary public service in order to pay the interest on a debt that was foisted on the shoulders of Irish citizens.

As Deputy Joan Collins observed, the sham row is over. The Government went into this looking to take €500 million out of the pockets of citizens and it has succeeded in that. If, as the Minister claims, some people will pay less, then we can be sure that some will pay more. I am shocked at how out of touch the Labour Party is on this issue, which really is saying something. The idea that obliging the working poor to pay more is somehow a thing to be lauded is amazing. Moreover, the notion that this is a conservation measure is a joke. Within a square kilometre of this House, we have a range of public buildings in which no rainwater is harvested. I doubt if a single kilometre of pipework has been fixed in the three years since the Minister came to power. It is sickening to note the Government's refusal yesterday to introduce a financial transactions tax - out of step with 11 other EU member states - which would have raised enough to negate the need for water charges.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The Minister, Deputy Phil Hogan, told an absolute falsehood on RTE television last night when he said that children, meaning those aged under 18, will have free water based on an allowance of 38,000 litres per year, or 104 litres per day. The Dublin region water supply project, which is sponsored by the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, has noted that 148 litres per person per day is the current average usage. Moreover, its projection is that with all meters and charging in place, the best possible reduction that can be achieved by 2030 - 16 years from now - would leave average usage at 130 litres per day. In other words, the supposedly free allowance for 18 years olds is 44 litres per day fewer than current usage and 26 litres per day fewer than the supposed average when the optimum saving is in place. A 16 or 17 year old does not need to wash less, drink less or use fewer sanitary facilities than a 21 year old. The Minister's blanket claim of free water for under 18s is a blatant falsehood concocted by Fine Gael and the Labour Party to save their skins in the local, European and by-elections in the face of public anger at another austerity tax.

In accordance with Standing Order 48 of the Dáil, I give way for the 30 seconds remaining to me to allow the Minister to clarify or withdraw that falsehood.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister is not obliged to respond and has indicated that he does not wish to do so.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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I am asking him to respond. I have allowed him time to tell the truth about the situation.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I do not have responsibility in this matter.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Will the Chair ask the Minister to respond?

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy has asked the Minister to respond and it is for the Minister to accept or reject the request. I call Deputy Seamus Healy.

Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Workers and Unemployed Action Group)
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It is time for some honesty in this debate. Fine Gael and the Labour Party are kicking the question of water charges down the road until after the local and European elections, with the decision to be made in August. On the basis of the interviews and statements made by the Minister yesterday, a household of two adults and two children will pay €360 per year, while a household of three adults will pay €586 per year. Households with more than one person are being penalised by this so-called Government. It is particularly shameful that the Tánaiste and leader of the Labour Party has agreed to these proposals. This is a man who built his career on opposition to water charges. The reality is that we are already paying for water, and these charges amount to double if not triple taxation. In addition to the so-called local property tax, we will now have a completely unfair and unjust water charging regime.

I have two questions for the Minister, which I expect him to deal with in his reply. Will households that are subject to boil water notices be exempt from water charges? Is the Minister listening to me?

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I am too long listening to the Deputy.

Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Workers and Unemployed Action Group)
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Will people obliged to boil water, such as those in Burncourt and Skeheenarinky in my constituency, be exempt from the charges? Second, will the thousands of families on the north side of Clonmel who have hard water and whose electrical goods are being damaged on a daily basis by limescale be exempt from the charges? I ask the Minister to respond to those two specific questions.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this important debate. I strongly oppose the introduction of water charges, which amount to a new tax on people who are already being hammered and who see 40% of their water supply going into the ground.

That is both an absolute disgrace and a completely inefficient use of the water system.

I am becoming somewhat fed up of the brass neck displayed by those in government who continually state that people must pay for water and that everyone must accept their political ideology. We are already paying for water through taxation. The Government should fix the leaks, create jobs, get on with it and stop pussyfooting around. When I buy a packet of cigarettes, 76% of the money I hand over goes in tax. Annually, this brings approximately €1.2 billion into the Exchequer. The figures I quote in this regard were provided by the Minister for Finance. It is because of the additional tax people are expected to pay that protests in respect of water charges are taking place in areas such as Raheny in my constituency. Water charges are being introduced at a time when hard-pressed taxpayers are already struggling. I am of the view that these charges are going to push many more people into poverty. They are being imposed against a backdrop of continuing job losses, falling incomes, tax increases and the introduction of other charges, including the property tax. The latter is being raided for the purpose of subventing Uisce Éireann.

I am calling for water charges to be scrapped, for the return of control of water services to democratically-elected local authorities, for the provision of a statutory binding commitment to the effect that water services will not be privatised, for the development of an all-Ireland strategy on water provision, for the establishment of a national water sector framework under which the operation of and capital investment in that sector might be governed and for investment in upgrading our aging and leaking water distribution system. I urge all Deputies to support this important motion and oppose water charges, which are nothing more than another tax on the hard-pressed people of this country. The latter are already being both hammered and crucified. What the Minister is doing is not good enough. He needs to up his game and withdraw these charges.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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What about the pooper scooper?

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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It is a dog's life.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Kevin Humphreys who, I understand, is sharing time with Deputies Connaughton and Heydon.

Kevin Humphreys (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I thank Deputy Finian McGrath for his contribution. Perhaps he might inform us whether the secret deal he concluded with Bertie Ahern included the fixing of water pipes in the Marino area. The Deputy refers to said deal on many occasions but he has failed to publish details of it. There is no record of the deal in the Taoiseach's office. If that which the Deputy says is factually correct-----

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I obtained €16.6 million for the orthopaedic hospital in Clontarf.

Kevin Humphreys (Dublin South East, Labour)
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-----perhaps he might, in the interests of openness and transparency, publish the details relating to the deal.

It has been stated on many occasions that a problem exists in the context of water infrastructure. The Dublin region is on a knife edge. It has no spare capacity and future growth is going to increase pressure on the system. Throughout the country up to 40% of water is being lost through leakages. In Dublin, the figure is 28%. A previous speaker referred to the fact that leaky pipes are not being replaced in certain areas which are not too far from this House. I welcome the fact that several kilometres of pipes in which leaks were found were replaced in recent years in the Dublin South-East constituency, particularly as this has given rise to an improvement in water pressure. Most of the water that is lost through leaks disappears as a result of faults in the connection between the main supply and people's houses. This is why I welcome the fact that from now on - and for the very first time - leaks in connections to private property will be fixed. This is extremely welcome because it will be both cost effective and will lead to money and water being saved.

We are investing - but not sufficiently - in water. With the establishment of Irish Water we will be able to double the annual investment in infrastructure. In the short term, we will be obliged to invest approximately €10 billion in the water system in order that we might ameliorate problems in Roscommon, where 19,000 boil notices have been issued to people, and Dublin, where in the past two years it was necessary for water rationing measures, which remained in place for up to six weeks, to be introduced on three occasions. It would be easy to present that down the road everything will be fine. However, we must plan now for the economic growth that will occur by 2020 and that will provide the jobs of tomorrow.

This is a complex issue. However, the Government has acted in order to ensure that every householder will receive a free allowance and that water charges will not apply to children and that older people living alone, those with large families or people with serious medical conditions will be protected. We recognise that families are hard pressed and that is why the Labour Party in government has fought for these measures. Holiday homes and properties that are not permanently occupied will be subject to a standing charge. This recognises the cost of providing the network infrastructure.

I take this opportunity to travel back in time to 2010. Unfortunately, Deputy Martin has left the Chamber but I am sure he would recall the national recovery plan which was agreed by Fianna Fáil and the Green Party and which incorporated the EU-IMF memorandum of understanding. Under this plan, those who were in government in 2010 mortgaged the country and committed their successors to introducing water charges by 2014. It is a bit rich for Eamon Ryan of the Green Party to state that when he signed the bailout agreement, he expected the Labour Party to veto water charges when it entered power. Mr. Ryan seems to have completely forgotten that the Green Party requested and secured the introduction of water charges in 2009 when it renegotiated its programme for Government with Fianna Fáil. What is clear is that both Fianna Fáil and the Green Party were in favour of water charges in 2009. They were so in favour of them that they made their introduction a condition of the EU-IMF bailout. It should not be forgotten that Eamon Ryan and Deputy Martin were both members of the Cabinet which signed off on the 2009 deal which led us into the bailout. When the current Administration took power, Fianna Fáil promised to provide responsible opposition. Now, however, it has returned to its usual trick of shouting loudest. The latter was probably prompted by the party's fear of Sinn Féin. If those in Fianna Fáil cannot even remember their policy on water charges, then it is easy to understand why they cannot recall who they asked to run for the party in Blackrock in the local elections. Perhaps Deputy Martin and Eamon Ryan should ask Mary Hanafin, who served in Cabinet with them, what was the previous Government's policy on water from 2009 onwards. Fianna Fáil does not want to allow any of its previous Cabinet Ministers back onto the pitch.

Deputy Michael McGrath has been a very good spokesperson on finance. When this Dáil first convened, he stated that his party would not engage in any tricks. I recall that he spoke in a very constructive fashion when the deal on the promissory notes was announced.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I apologise for interrupting but I am informed that this slot is actually being shared by six Deputies and that they will each have five minutes in which to make their contributions. Unfortunately, I have not been given the names of the other three speakers. Deputy Kevin Humphreys must conclude.

Kevin Humphreys (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Deputy Martin reminds me of the character of Bobby Ewing in the television programme "Dallas" who died at the end of one season and returned - in the shower - two series later. Everything in between was forgotten and dismissed as a dream. Deputy Martin appears to have forgotten everything his party did during 15 years in government.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy watches too much television.

Kevin Humphreys (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Far too much.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Martin is still alive but J.R. Ewing is dead.

Paul Connaughton (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate. The need to pay for water was always going to be seen a contentious issue. However, it was never previously seen as an issue in this country despite the fact that people in rural areas, particularly those who own farms and people in group water schemes, pay for their water. I am of the view that the real point has been missed during this debate. The nature of that point is that regardless of what the Government proposes, the Opposition will just say "No" to it. Those in Fianna Fáil set out what they had planned to do if they had been returned to Government in 2011. Other Members have indicated that they are completely against water charges but they have not outlined what they would do differently. The same people are also opposed to the property tax and to tax increases of any kind.

This matter relates to the need for major investment in our water services infrastructure. It has been stated that the money relating to what is being done at present should be used to fix leaky pipes and that this would solve all our problems. However, the latter would not give rise to the difficulties that exist across the entire country being resolved. Many counties have been obliged to issue boil notices in respect of water supplies. Those counties should be the subject of particular attention when Irish Water announces its investment programme.

A great deal has been stated in recent weeks with regard to how much people are going to be obliged to pay for water and in respect of those who are going to receive special dispensations. I welcome the fact that those with specific medical conditions and the elderly will be assisted in the context of paying their bills. However, the latter does not mean that the level of anxiety experienced by these individuals has been reduced to any great degree. It is important that we should make it easy for people to pay the charge.

The most important point in respect of this matter does not relate to what is going to happen now but rather to what will occur in the future. The majority of people do not have a difficulty in paying for water as long as they can see that there will be a positive outcome. It was in this context that much of the anger about Irish Water and the set-up costs relating to it arose. Perhaps this was a communications issue and the wrong words may have been used at the wrong time. People immediately became extremely angry when they heard about the millions of euro used to establish this State utility. Setting it up was never going to be easy, however, particularly when one considers the level of expertise that was going to be required. Such expertise is expensive.

What people now want to see is two things. First, they want the money put into Irish Water - taxpayers' money - to be put into proper infrastructure, not only now but for the next 20 years. Second, they want any money we invest in Irish Water now to actually save us money in the long run.

We should ensure one thing in particular since some people are rather angry about this issue. For the Government to get this right, Irish Water must be set up on a sound financial basis because if the State utility is to work, it must be resourced. If we are honest with ourselves, a decision such as this should have been made many years ago when there was far more disposable income to pay for it. The troika may have left the country, but some of the measures it proposed and that are widely used throughout Europe are being implemented. Anger comes from the fact that people have never had less disposable income. That is what angers them the most. These measures should have been brought forward 15 or 20 years ago when there was a greater ability to pay. We should be cognisant that this is why people are so upset. From meeting many people I understand they have major concerns about paying for water because this is something we have never done. It has been said we pay for it through income tax which is spent and prioritised ineffectively. For the first time, this will allow us to put a vast amount of money into water infrastructure, which is a welcome development.

The Government committed to getting the information out before the local elections. That has now taken place. Some detail remains to come from the bone and the regulator will have to do this. It is important that the regulator also examine the costs incurred in setting up Irish Water and ensure all of the money was spent correctly and that if any of it was not spent correctly, the bill will fall on Irish Water, not the taxpayer. Only then will people be able to see that the money invested in Irish Water is being well spent and will gives us the quality of water we need.

Those of us living in rural Ireland, especially in the constituency of Galway East, know all about this issue. We are looking for broadband and more power. Another thing institutions and companies are looking for is a proper water supply. We must get all three right. We are still way behind in certain parts of the country, but we are working towards getting this done.

I have no issue with paying for water. I realise this is a conservation measure as much as anything else, although some do not want to believe this. For it to work in the future, we must be able to show that the money being invested in Irish Water is being well spent, that as a result, the infrastructure is being upgraded and brought up to a proper standard and that, consequently, we will be in a better situation where jobs will be created, sustained and spatially spread throughout the country.

Eamonn Maloney (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I have learned one thing in this House in the introduction of any new charge, levy or tax, that is, it is always an issue of great contention. By people's nature, especially in a recession, it is difficult for them to invite it into their day-to-day living, especially for those who do not have the greatest of resources. People have a natural suspicion of any additional charge or tax. Others have alluded to this, but given the importance of a water supply, the issue should have been dealt with in better times. Like others on all sides of the House, I acknowledge this fact, but the reality is that it was not done.

As a member of a local authority in Dublin, I quickly came to the conclusion that the idea of having different local authorities providing water would not work. From my experience and speaking to people who worked in local authorities, I came to believe it was never the ideal solution in providing for all citizens of the State a proper drinking water system. I may be wrong about this, but, whatever its shortcomings, in principle, I agree with the idea of having a water authority because all citizens should have access to a proper drinking water supply.

There is more to the question than the simple matter of introducing a levy and charging people for water because it is so basic in our day-to-day living. It is a great resource, one many people on other continents cannot avail of and which costs them their lives. I am probably as guilty as anyone else in this regard, but perhaps traditionally we have taken it for granted that the rain falls from the sky into pipes and that when we turn on the tap, it flows, but that is not how it works. Turning rainwater into drinking water is an expensive process. Until recently, apart from the Brits, we were probably the only people who actually washed cars and pavements with drinking water. We buy high pressure hose appliances which can be seen in neighbourhoods and people wash their windows with drinking water. It is absolutely daft. If we are to find another way of managing the issues of a charge, conservation and the importance of water, some of the European models are the best ones to examine because the emphasis is placed on those who waste drinking water. They are the ones who pay for it and that is the view to which I subscribe.

I look forward to the Minister's water conservation plan because it is a strong element in how the public will view this measure. There will be teething problems. People have made arguments, some of them valid, although I do not agree with all of them, to the effect that we could set up a utility such as Irish water without spending money and that we know all about having a central authority for processing rainwater into drinking water. However, we do not because it has never been done before in the history of the State. This is the first time it is being done. There are problems with it and there will be problems as it moves along, but it is for people like us to tweak it and get the message across that wasting water is almost anti-social.

Since the system has been neglected for so long, we find ourselves in this awful position. Some will argue, probably rightly, that not enough money has been allocated following the Minister's announcement on repairing existing schemes, given the associated shortfall and the question of aged water systems. However, I welcome this measure and it must be taken. It will not solve all of the problems, but, as was said at the beginning of the programme, it is a matter of rolling it out properly for all citizens of the State.

I have never agreed with having a standing charge. There are a few exceptions, but I would seldom agree with having a standing charge because such a charge allows those who are better off to pay, while those who are not are put under stress. I welcome the change and the introduction of the associated allowances. We have some way to go, but I look forward to the Minister's water conservation plan.

Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
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I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak to this Private Members' motion. Several points on political expediency should be highlighted. True to the Taoiseach's commitment, we said we would outline the details of the average charge for water before the local and European elections and we have now done so. I greatly welcome this. If Members across the Chamber were in power, I imagine there would be far more sleight-of-hand, as we have seen in the past, in how they faced up to these matters. Before the last general election, we in Fine Gael were very open about the need for water charges and a local property tax and, knowing this, the people voted for us. I welcome the introduction of a free allowance of 30,000 litres per household and the additional allowance to cover normal water consumption for children under 18 years. Effectively, this means that water charges will not apply to children. The free first fix scheme announced for households, as well as the accelerated metering programme, are also welcome.

What we have is a history of vast under-investment. Fianna Fáil has placed this motion before the House, but the previous Government carries a great deal of culpability, given the years of under-investment in water services. Someone said to me recently that we had great motorways and roads and asked why the same investment had not been made in the water system. The comment was made that one could cut a ribbon when a road was opened and that everyone could see it, but if one were to pump all of the money into underground pipes, the political return would not be as much of a hit as those in Fianna Fáil would like. Therefore, it did not invest and we now have a litany of problems. There are problems in my constituency, Kildare South, as a result.

Kildare town still needs a network. I will lobby for that to be part of the Irish Water work programme. Osberstown has finally received €32 million - I thank the Minister for his investment - for its plant and network, but the Newbridge interceptor sewer also needs to be upgraded. The Ballitore treatment plant is close to my home. Last year, the Minister, Deputy Hogan, gave us €178,000 for a rising main from the new school in the small community of Crookstown, itself a €4 million investment by the Department of Education and Skills. That main links us to the Ballitore treatment plant, which needs significant investment and is not operational. In an estate in Millbrook, Timolin, raw sewage has been flowing out onto a footpath for years. Kildare County Council has spent a fortune in emergency measure funding to empty those tanks. That is dead money now. Following the announcement last week by the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, we received a slice of €10 million to address that problem.

We are firefighting, because these issues occur all over the country. We must tackle them by ensuring proper investment. The best way of doing so is to increase expenditure so we might invest in our infrastructure, which has been neglected for a long time.

I welcome the capping of charges for people with high water usage rates due to certain medical conditions. A constituent who is on home haemodialysis and uses up to 1,000 litres of water per week approached me. There are approximately 45 or 50 similar cases around the country. I do not doubt that the Minister will ensure adequate allowances are provided in such special cases. A constituent with prostate cancer who needs to bathe regularly also got in touch with me. We need to show flexibility and care in such circumstances.

As a farmer whose land gets water from Poulaphouca, I pay whenever my cattle drink water. I have been paying water bills to Kildare County Council for a number of years. Likewise the shops, pubs, restaurants and industry in my area. It is right and proper that everyone should share the burden of paying for what is an important resource for all of us.

I have raised a concern about Irish Water's establishment with the Minister a number of times. Kildare County Council has stopped processing taken-in-charge estates in the belief that the Irish Water legislation prevents it from doing so. I do not accept that the situation is so cut and dry. The protocols are due out shortly and I hope they arrive as quickly as possible, but I encourage the council to progress the taking in charge of estates. This is necessary.

Deputy Connaughton referred to power and water, our two most significant issues and the toughest that politics has had to address in recent months. Whenever a new manufacturer, pharmaceutical company or other industry is determining whether to set up in an area, it looks for water and power. We are addressing these infrastructural issues.

Alan Farrell (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the opportunity to address water charges and the greater issue of water supply. I will start by reading into the record, probably not for the first time in this debate, a document dated 10 October 2009, namely, Fianna Fáil's "Renewed Programme for Government". The Members opposite will remember this:

We will introduce charging for treated water use that is fair, significantly reduces waste and is easily applied. It will be based on a system where households are allocated a free basic allowance, with charging only for water use in excess of this allowance. In keeping with the allocation of greater responsibility to local government, Local Authorities will set their own rates for water use.

I have a further document belonging to Fianna Fáil from 1977, some 37 years ago and before my time or my dad's, in which it abolished local rates, ringing the death knell for the delivery of local services across our country.

Michael Moynihan (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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Some 75% was abolished by Fine Gael.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Moynihan should hold up his hand.

Alan Farrell (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Without funding, local authorities had no option but to put their resources into other areas, resulting in the complete abdication of responsibility by successive Governments for investing in water infrastructure or for even acknowledging there was a problem. It is laughable that the Members opposite sit and point fingers at the Minister, Deputy Hogan, when we are in this scenario because of their failed policies and their failure to provide basic investment for infrastructure that will be necessary if we are to deal with a growing population. The birth rate is the highest it has been in more than 30 years. I come from the fastest growing local authority area in Europe. Its average age is also the lowest in Europe. There has been a systemic failure by local government, through the funding provided by central government, to invest in water infrastructure.

Between 2004 and 2009, my local authority of Fingal County Council, with the little money it had, invested €10 million in 30 km of pipe replacements, including wooden pipes in the north of the county that had been there for God knows how many decades. Due to the requirement to replace pipes that are damaged or rendered beyond use because of their age, the council must replace an additional 300 km of pipes. Deputies can work out how long and how much this will take. In Dublin city, I understand that 800 km of pipes require replacing. For decades, we have needed to spend money on dealing with constant problems because of the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government's failure to address basic standards, for example, the use of asbestos pipes in certain instances and the installation of substandard facilities up to and including water treatment plants the length and breadth of the country.

It is laughable that the Members opposite have tabled this motion for nothing other than electoral purposes. Thirty-seven years on from the 1977 general election, electoral purposes are being placed ahead of the State's basic needs. That is a disgrace. Fianna Fáil's motion condemns the "cynical, politically motivated delay of information". What nonsense is Fianna Fáil talking? The Cabinet makes decisions on a weekly basis, just as Cabinets under Fianna Fáil's control did for 27 of the past 30 years. This has always been the case. We are in a coalition Government and it is clear that there will be different agendas at the Cabinet table. That is the cut and thrust of politics. Even if we are to believe that Fianna Fáil has been resurrected from the disgrace it brought upon itself in recent years, not for one second do people believe this nonsense. No one wants to pay water charges - of that I am certain - but we do not have a choice in the matter because of Fianna Fáil's decisions in 2010. In 2009, even before we entered into the financial programme of assistance, Fianna Fáil signed us up to water charges. Here we are with cynical electioneering for the purpose of garnering votes in the local and European elections.

Michelle Mulherin (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Amid all of the consternation around water charges and the establishment of Irish Water, I would like to take a step back. The regime for the delivery of water and sewerage infrastructure that existed heretofore under local authorities with direct funding from the Department did not benefit rural Ireland. During my time on Mayo County Council, the large population centres, such as those along the east coast, received water and sewerage schemes and, accordingly, State investment while country areas lost out on schemes. Those that were delivered arrived slowly because they were not commercially viable. In common with other rural county councils, Mayo County Council could not achieve a "polluter pays" contribution because we were operating on a low rates basis. Planning levies were also limited, unlike in larger areas that saw significant levels of development and growth.

Water infrastructure is vital for rural Ireland.

We rely on our tourism industry and much of our lands are environmentally sensitive, yet as we speak tonight - this has been going on for years - raw sewage is flowing into rivers, lakes and bays in my county and other rural counties. Some towns do not have any sewage treatment facilities and raw sewage is being pumped into special areas of conservation. For example, in the town of Belmullet, the Environmental Protection Agency discharge licence will expire in December 2015. Something must be done by that time. Currently, inadequately treated sewage is being pumped into the bay. This area is specially designated by a European Union directive for the protection of shellfish. If something is not done about that, who will be prosecuted and fined if there is a diminution of water quality in this area, which is an offence? Will it be Irish Water? That would cost the State more money, yet we would still not have a solution and new sewage treatment plants would not be built.

I have repeatedly made representations for other towns in my county such as Foxford, Charlestown and Killala. How can such towns and their businesses be sustained and allowed to grow? How can they attract inward investment when they cannot give an assurance of good water quality or supply? They need sewage or wastewater treatment plants yesterday.

Rural Ireland is at a total disadvantage even on the water supply side. Water pipes are so old in some towns that they have melted in the ground, to coin the phrase of the workmen who are out day and night repairing leaks. I have looked down some of these holes and one cannot even see a pipe. We need a plan for timely and systematic replacement of these pipes. That plan should have been produced yesterday, but it was not. That evidence proves the system is not working.

I want to acknowledge mains rehabilitation funding of over €4 million that is coming to my town of Ballina, which has the problem I describe. Every few days workmen are out on our main busy thoroughfare, the N26, fixing leaks, which stops traffic and affects businesses. Houses, businesses and companies do not have any water. This is modern Ireland.

East Mayo needs a regional water supply scheme to ensure water supply for towns such as Bunnyconnellan, Foxford, Swinford, Charlestown, Kilkenny and Knock, along with Balla and Kiltimagh - the list goes on. Those are only the towns identified as being urgent cases. The list has been available for years but nothing has been done.

We are now facing the publication by Irish Water of the two-year water investment plan. I very much welcome the additional €200 million that has been put into that fund to be spent on the infrastructure to which I refer. However, I hope it will be fair to rural Ireland because what has been going on to date has not been fair in that we do not have the infrastructure I have described. Many people have been patient with the changes, but we need to see equal treatment for the country, as much as for the city areas and the infrastructure, delivered in a timely manner. Irish Water should not make decisions based on return on investment, which more often than not will see rural areas lose out and the big urban centres gain. This will be the test for it, and I look forward to seeing a comprehensive plan that will address the problems in the area I represent.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Michael Kitt, who is sharing time with Deputies Moynihan, McConalogue, Kirk and Fleming.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the opportunity to support this motion proposed by Fianna Fáil yesterday evening. Irish Water got off to a very bad start in that we saw the proposals for a new layer of bureaucracy, particularly the amount of money paid to consultants, including the bonus payments mentioned, which would be funded by water charges on householders and businesses across the country. We were told by the Minister that the initial charge would be €240 per household and that there would not be a standing charge, but there is a major question mark about whether other payments will arise. There is no indication either of the way in which more than 1 million unmetered houses will be charged.

The Government has been committed to water charges for over three years and it is time to clarify the full cost to each householder. An overall clear plan is needed for upgrading the network. The issues of conservation and a regular safe supply of water are important. We should be assured of the supply. Business and industry need a consistent, high-quality supply for the creation of jobs and to attract new investment.

The water shortages in Dublin highlight the need for a regular safe supply of water. There has been talk of a 16% leakage rate in south Dublin, a 60% rate in Kerry and a rate of 40% nationally. That highlights the need for serious investment in the network and in the mains. Water services now cost €1.2 billion per annum, with €200 million provided by commercial water ratepayers. We need a full upgrade of the current system, following which we could have equity in water pricing.

Good work has been done on water supplies at local authority level but they have not been able to provide water to more isolated rural areas. There was an urgent need for a group water scheme movement, which is particularly strong in Galway. Committees have been set up in Galway, Mayo and other western counties to identify a supply of water, collect money and get grants from the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, sometimes from the European Union Regional Development Fund, to bring water to homes and farms. There was a charge for people who went out to do this work. They would sometimes try to get a supply from a local authority but more often they would have to go to an alternative supply such as a well or a river. These group schemes were set up and, in fairness to the former Minister, Noel Dempsey, he gave a 50,000-gallon subsidy towards these group schemes, which is something the previous Labour Party Minister forgot about when he abolished water charges.

We have had a domestic allowance and a subsidy to ensure equity with the public water schemes, but the issue of the unmetered houses has not been addressed. In the past there was pressure on group water schemes to have their schemes taken over, but with these new proposals on charges, water schemes will not be as keen to join a public scheme. These committees find it difficult to recruit new members, and we must remember there is a huge amount of voluntary work in the organisation and maintenance of group water schemes.

There are questions and uncertainty about the future. I saw an article in today's Metro Heraldnewspaper about what will happen in two years' time. Everybody is talking about what will happen in two years' time. The Minister talks about an average payment of €240 for two adults and two children. We have asked questions about households with a third child or an elderly person but have not got answers. Deputy Maloney was right when he referred to people washing cars with drinking water. What happened to the rainwater harvesting projects? Fianna Fáil put money into those projects in the past. The former Minister, John Gormley, with whom I was a Minister of State in the Department of the Environment, had a project in a school in Mayo and a farm in County Meath. These issues have not been developed.

I tabled questions to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government on meters and leaks, and one reply stated that where the leak has been identified as being within the boundary of the property under the 2007 Water Services Act, the repair of the leak has been and remains the responsibility of the individual householder.

Questions arose last night on a television programme about finding leaks, and it was interesting that the Minister's reply stated that where a leak is identified on the public water mains, the repairs are undertaken by the local authority acting as an agent of Irish Water. Local authorities that have lost many of their staff must now be agents for Irish Water. It is time we clarified some of these issues, including the question of the free fix, which was not answered last night on "Prime Time", and are given answers about what is happening.

Michael Moynihan (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate, and I commend Deputy Cowen on moving the motion. Historical references are made in every debate in the House. Deputy Farrell referred to a document from the 1977 election manifesto but he omitted to tell the House that 75% of the rates were abolished by the previous Government and that only 25% of the rates were abolished by the incoming Government. That has been overlooked by many commentators the length and breadth of the country.

I wish to raise a number of issues.

People are outraged at the amount of money spent on the establishment of the quango that is Irish Water. There is a huge amount of expertise within the local authorities in terms of water service provision and a great deal of work has been done by them down through the years to improve services and so on.

The previous speaker spoke about group water schemes and the huge amount of effort in this regard by local communities. I have been involved with many group water schemes in my area where the underground water supply is of poor quality and would require a huge amount of treatment to make it fit for human consumption. In other areas supply is limited because of difficulties in reaching high ground. People in these areas came together, submitted an application for a group water scheme to the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, in respect of which they received a grant per household. Following the initiative introduced by the previous Government some of these schemes also benefited from a top-up under CLÁR, which made what was an unaffordable scheme affordable to many communities in my area. The last water scheme put in place in County Cork was in the Lombardstown area, on which a huge amount of work was done. I compliment all those involved in that work. Many of these group water schemes do not know how they are fixed going forward. Some of these schemes, which are delivering water from the county council reservoirs to farms and homes, have not been taken in charge by the county council or Irish Water. This is creating major difficulties.

As I said earlier, people are concerned about the amount of money spent by Government on the establishment of Irish Water. In establishing this agency the Government is taking from local authorities a function for which they have been responsible since their foundation and have been executing well. Many previous speakers spoke of areas that do not have proper sewerage facilities. I compliment my predecessors in this House and on the county councils who worked diligently to ensure their communities were served by proper water and sewerage schemes. When I was elected to this House in 1997, only one village in north Cork did not have proper sewerage facilities. Thankfully, that was rectified soon afterwards.

Much work has been done and a great deal of expertise has been developed by the local authorities. There has been much commentary around the centralisation of the medical card system and the withdrawal of discretionary medical cards. Water is important for people on dialysis. A constituent of mine who has cancer is experiencing huge difficulties because of a leak in her water supply. These types of issues were dealt with compassionately by the local authorities. Giving responsibility for these issues to a giant quango will hurt people. It is time it was acknowledged that centralisation has a negative affect on rural communities. It is time to stop going this route.

Water charges were abolished in 1996 by a Fine Gael-Labour Party Government and are now being reintroduced by a Fine Gael-Labour Party Government. Many of the people who have come together and set up group water schemes do not now know where they stand. The vast amount of money wasted on setting up the giant quango that is Irish Water cannot be in any way deemed good for society or the country as a whole.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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I join with my colleagues in complimenting Deputy Barry Cowen on bringing this issue to the floor of the Dáil and, in particular, on holding the Government to account for how it has handled the issue of water charges not alone in the past couple of weeks but since it took office a little over three years ago. I am sure that like all of us the Minister of State, Deputy O'Dowd, has been out canvassing and will know first-hand what a big issue this is for households and families.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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People are giving out more about Fianna Fáil than anything else.

Charlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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The manner in which Fine Gael and the Labour Party have handled the management of this issue in the past couple of weeks has been a cause of great concern to families who are financially constrained in terms of their household budgets. As the Minister of State is aware, these families are living in fear of the imminent charge and how they are going to manage to pay it. The squabbles between Fine Gael and the Labour Party over the past couple of weeks in regard to how this money is to be taken from them has made this more difficult. The resolution is to take the same amount of money from families but in a different manner. What is being given to them in swings is being taken from them on the roundabout. This is the same type of approach taken by the Government to the recently introduced property tax.

The Labour Party now has the audacity to try to gain credit with the electorate by promising a 15% reduction in water charges if people vote for Labour councillors. On the one hand Labour supports Fine Gael in the introduction of water charges and on the other hand it is promising a reduction of 15% if its councillors are elected. The public is supposed to be grateful for this. However, the public knows well the value of these types of promises. What has been announced in the past few days is very much with the local elections in mind. Despite protestations to the contrary, the public knows that this is not where it ends and expects water charges to be increased further by this Government during the remainder of its term in office.

The introduction of water charges comes on the back of the most expensive establishment of a quango in the history of this State. Flying in the face of the bonfire of the quangos promised by the parties in government, we have seen €60 million of taxpayers' money spent on consultancy fees. Deputy Cowen tabled many parliamentary questions to the Minister seeking the amount spent on consultancy fees. While the Minister repeatedly refused to answer, he eventually had to come clean and admit the level of money sunk into this organisation while not 1% of the 40% leakage in our water network across the country has been repaired.

Rather than applying additional financial pressure on families across this country this Government should be seeking, by way of improving the network and addressing the need to supply more than 40% more water because of the leakage in the system, to ensure a reduction in the cost of water supply nationally. While I acknowledge we are in difficult times financially research has shown that investment in our public network would result in savings to the Exchequer. Despite the Government's statement that flat charges will not be introduced and that charges will be meter and usage-based, it now proposes to impose charges on everyone despite the fact meters have been installed in only one third of households across the State.

I commend the motion to the House. I reiterate again that this Government's mishandling of this issue is causing great difficulty for families across the country, which I am sure is what the Minister of State, Deputy O'Dowd, is hearing on the doorsteps daily.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the opportunity to contribute briefly to this important debate. When the legislation to establish Irish Water was brought before this House the amount of time allowed to debate it was truncated. The Private Members' motion provides Members on this side of the House with an opportunity to have an input into what is a fairly complex issue. There is nothing straightforward about introducing water charges given the range of needs and disparities in the population.

Consider, for instance, the issues of illness in a house, the number of adults in a house and the number of children. Those with distressed mortgages will have to pay water bills annually. It is important that we have an opportunity to tease out the provisions in the regulations catering for these categories.

Having spent some of my earlier political years helping to organise group water schemes in rural communities in my constituency and neighbouring constituencies, I realise the sorts of challenges that arise. In many instances in rural communities, people did not have access to public water and were depending on wells. In some cases, the water was polluted from some of the range of sources of pollution that featured in rural areas. On a practical level, I am reasonably familiar with the problems that exist.

There is one aspect of this debate that has been subject to quite limited focus. One should bear in mind the difference between the volume of domestic water used for consumption, as in water for drinking and making tea, and that used for sanitation, including showers and baths. I do not have the relevant statistics available but suspect the volume that could be sourced from rainwater is quite significant, both for individuals and communities. Giving a credit to households that are prepared to install water harvesting facilities should be considered. The facilities are on the market. They are relatively expensive and I suppose the economics are fairly marginal. However, considering our annual level of rainfall, I believe harnessing rainwater for showers, baths and toilets would be a very practical move on the part of the Minister and Minister of State.

If one calculated the huge volume of water used annually in all schools, from primary to third level, in my constituency, Louth, one would realise it is very significant. Will the planning regulations be adjusted to oblige designers of new schools to ensure water harvesting facilities are provided? The retrospective installation of water harvesting facilities would be very much worthwhile. When adjudicating in annual tidy towns competitions, should additional brownie points not be awarded to local committees that systematically encourage owners of community buildings and schools to install water harvesting facilities? If it is possible to organise water harvesting on a communal basis in estates with 20 to 40 houses, credits could be given to individual householders who participate in the scheme for a period of three to five years. Given that there is leakage of 40% in the water supply system, it would be worth considering my proposal.

Consider the exemption thresholds, including those that might apply where there is sickness in a household. Will there be flexibility for those with distressed mortgages? This seems an obvious question to ask.

Standing charges will not be part of the new provisions. We already have standard charges for commercial and agricultural users. Do they fall under the new regulations, or are they to be taken out of the system? I refer to individual farmers using water for dairying and stock and to commercial businesses. They are paying water charges and a standing charge. What will happen in their circumstances?

Deputy Michael McGrath referred last night to water of poor quality. This kind of water registers on the meter. How will it be catered for in the new system? These are the unanswered questions that underline the importance of having this debate.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am thankful for the opportunity to speak. I thank my colleague Deputy Barry Cowen for tabling this motion on behalf of Fianna Fáil. It is very timely as there are many issues pertaining to Irish Water that need to be discussed. They are being discussed on the doorsteps of the people, who see the meters being installed on their streets. Contractors are working in several areas around the country. This issue is now becoming a very lively, hot topic.

We should not be talking about water charges as the charge is, plainly and simply, a new water tax. There is no new service and no water of better quality will be provided. All that is happening is the installation of water meters to collect money. Over 1 million households will have no meters when the bills arrive. It is meaningless, therefore, to link metering to water quality, water supply and water conservation. The bills will arrive regardless of whether one has a meter. We are installing meters only to collect taxes.

The people know what happened with the local property tax. They were promised that it would be spent on local services by local authorities but the Government raided the kitty and took the money back in order to spend €180 million setting up the new super-quango that we call Irish Water. Some €85 million has been spent on consultants, PR and bonuses for staff, many of whom have transferred from full-time pensionable positions in local authorities. The way the Government has set about this reminds me of only one possible phenomenon , namely the way the private sector works when greed takes over. The Government is setting up an organisation that will be ripe for privatisation from the very beginning. It will have a customer base for a saleable product, as with Eircom and the mobile telephone companies. It will be asked how many customers there are and how much money can be extracted from them each year. It will be advocated that these figures should be calculated and that Irish Water should be sold. The Government is privatising Bord Gáis and has done a lot in this regard. It has privatised the customer base. As sure as night follows day, if Fine Gael remains in government it will privatise the water services, although I do not know whether it will be on a national or regional basis. I do not know whether the Government will follow its counterparts in England, the Tory party, with which it is associated, or whether it will operate on a national basis.

The issue of pricing is very serious. Everyone knows the charge of €240 is only the start and that it will double as time passes. Most people will see that the charge of €240 is only to get the foot in the door. The Government has very cleverly said the Commission for Energy Regulation will deal with pricing. However, it will be so restricted it will be almost like a puppet of the Minister. It will be told to the last penny what the average charge is to be and that if it does not come up with this it will have to go back to the drawing board. The Government will use the regulator as a way of saying charging has nothing to do with it. On the other hand, the Minister will be telling the regulator at every hand’s turn precisely what it should do. The regulator will be almost like a ventriloquist's dummy. The Government has undermined the regulator significantly. It will pretend the regulator is independent but it will be doing the Minister's bidding on every single occasion.

We noted the attitude of the Government last autumn when it voted down the proposals on freedom of information, including in respect of Irish Water. Under pressure from ourselves, it had to do a U-turn in this regard. In recent weeks, we brought in legislation to bring Irish Water under the remit of the Ombudsman but the Government has not agreed to that. I hope it will do a similar U-turn because, as matters stand, the people will have nowhere to go if they have complaints.

I have tabled parliamentary questions asking who looks after the consumer. The response is that it is the Commission for Energy Regulation. The regulator will not engage in personal disputes about the quality of water or water supplies cut off for a period. When will all the households that the Government says will be metered be metered?

On foot of the press release issued by the Government yesterday, a few issues need to be highlighted. When the public sees what was in the press release, it will have genuine cause for fear. The Government states the allowance for a standard house will be 30,000 litres, which is but 20% of what it states is the average volume that will be consumed per household, namely 140,000 l.

There is no free allowance. They are paying for 80% of it, but the Government is giving the impression to some people that they will have free water if they conserve it. They will not. They will be paying for 80% of everything that comes in their door, based on the Government figures.

Then the Government moves on to the issue of the allowance for children. However, the press release states that the allowance for each child under 18 is aligned to entitlement to child benefit. How long has the Government been telling us that child benefit cannot be touched? Now we have a situation in which child benefit is being linked to Irish Water and water bills - this is in the Government press release issued yesterday, in the last paragraph on page 2.

On page 3 of yesterday's press release, it is stated that Irish Water charges will have to take into account the quality of services provided and due regard will have to be had to these matters. What about the issue of limescale destroying household electric kettles and shower units and clogging up pipes? It is stated that these issues will be referred to the regulator. As the Minister of State knows, the CER has a zero role in regard to the quality of water. What is in this document is a fudge, a half-story, an untruth. The Minister of State and I know the EPA is the regulator when it comes to water quality, but there are two regulators for Irish Water, with the other regulator dealing with pricing. Is the EPA going to tell the CER that there is a poor-quality water service in a particular townland or street, and it will adjust its charges accordingly? There are two regulators and, ultimately, the Minister can tell the CER what to do with the price. Thankfully, the EPA is independent of the Minister and it will not take such nonsense from the Minister in terms of telling it how to do its job on a daily basis. Therefore, we will have the Minister and the energy regulator involved in setting the charges, whereas the EPA is the regulator for water quality. It is a recipe for disaster before this even starts, and the Government has not sorted that out.

I then look at question No. 11 regarding what happens people who do not pay their bills. The Government states that it will go to court and that the legislation will not allow water to be turned off. However, Irish Water is empowered by the legislation, which the Government rammed through here by guillotine without a proper vote before Christmas, to reduce water pressure in order to restrict water supply. It is time we knew what is going to happen to people in financial difficulty. Irish Water will give them a dribble of water that would fill an electric kettle so they will not die of dehydration, and that is what the Government will call a high-quality supply of water. I ask the EPA to adjudicate on whether that constitutes a water supply of proper quality. It should not be the energy regulator or Irish Water that determines that, and I hope others will deal with it.

One of the most alarming issues is mentioned in the next paragraph of the same question, No. 11, which states that the free allowance will be available only to households that pay their charges in a timely manner. As with Bord Gáis and Eircom at present, people get 14 days to pay their bills. If somebody has not paid their Irish Water bill within 14 days of receiving the bill, they will lose their free allowance - that is in the Government press release. Therefore, there is no free allowance for anyone in financial difficulty who is a day late in paying his or her bill, so the free allowance is optional, only received if the person pays. People will probably have to sign up for a direct debit to qualify for the free allowance. The Government is linking it to the prompt payment of bills, which is a disgrace.

The press release then refers to non-principal private residences and how the Government is going to separate people with holiday homes from people who have a second house that is rented out. The Minister of State has not explained that issue. However, we have learned two things. The Minister of State has linked the bill for Irish Water to children's allowance - it is in the Government's document - and he has said the free allowance is conditional on quick and up-front payment, probably by direct debit. This free allowance is a hoax and a cod. It is not available for everyone. For people with big families it is being linked to child benefit, and the Government will not give them their free allowance of any description if they do not pay. Shame on the Minister of State.

Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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I call the Minister of State, Deputy Fergus O'Dowd.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Thank you-----

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Answer first the falsehood that I pointed out to the Minister-----

Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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Order, Deputy Higgins. The Minister of State has the floor.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Chair for the opportunity to speak. I would like to address some of the issues raised and to mention that I have heard some very important points tonight, particularly from my colleague, Deputy Kirk. A number of constructive points have been made, all of which bear thinking about. This is the sort of debate we need in the context of how we can change things for the better.

Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Workers and Unemployed Action Group)
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We need answers.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I am sorry; I did not interrupt anybody.

Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State without interruption.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I am trying to concentrate on the very positive, constructive contributions made by Deputy Kirk and others on the other side of the House and to respond in like manner. There is now a great deal of clarity on the situation regarding domestic water charges. There has been a rigorous analysis of the funding model to ensure we have a system which is fair and efficient and provides an incentive for householders to use water resources efficiently. The details are true to the commitments made in our programme for Government, with the provision of a very generous free allowance for households. There will be no standing charge, which means that the system of charges will be purely based on usage above the free allowance, so people have it within their power to control the charges they have to pay. Households will, therefore, only pay for water use above 30,000 litres per annum. The level of free allowance will increase by an additional 38,000 litres for each child in the household, which, in essence, results in free water for children. I think that is-----

Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Workers and Unemployed Action Group)
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Nonsense.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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It does not. I have demonstrated already that that is not the case. It is not true.

Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State without interruption. Deputy Higgins, please take your seat.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I want my time back for that roar.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Will the Minister of State just answer the questions?

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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As I said, in essence, this results in free water for children. I believe these are very progressive and good rules, regulations and legislation which mean that children's consumption is actually free.

Extensive consideration has also been given to providing supports to vulnerable households. In this regard, the Government has agreed on additional affordability measures to assist pensioners, people with disabilities and carers who receive the household benefits package. This package, which currently provides assistance with ESB and gas bills as well as covering the full cost of a television licence, will now be extended to assist with water costs. The value of this additional benefit will be approximately €100 a year to each recipient. In addition to the free allowance and supports through the Department of Social Protection, the Government is also providing that charges for those with high water usage arising from a medical condition will be capped at an average charge. The details of this measure are being discussed with the Minister for Health.

The Government has also decided that provision should be made for circumstances in which the quality of the water service provided to customers is impaired or where services are reduced or impaired. Irish Water is making every effort to support households-----

Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Workers and Unemployed Action Group)
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What does that mean? Will families with hard water be exempted?

Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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I ask Deputy Healy to stop interrupting. The Minister of State has the floor.

Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Workers and Unemployed Action Group)
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He should answer the questions.

Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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I do not want to have to ask the Deputy to leave the Chamber. You had your opportunity. Please stop interrupting.

Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Workers and Unemployed Action Group)
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He knows the answers and he should give them now.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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This is a debate on a motion tabled by the Opposition, and the rules are as agreed by the Members of the House. Any questions that are asked in regard to other issues will be answered in due course by the process that we all agree on, which is called parliamentary questions. I suggest the Deputies table questions.

Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Workers and Unemployed Action Group)
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The Minister of State knows the answers to the questions and he should give them now.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Irish Water is also making every effort to support households in paying their bills and has announced that it will introduce a range of payment options for customers. These will include an easy payment option for customers who wish to make regular payments of not less than €10 per transaction.

Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Workers and Unemployed Action Group)
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Will families who are subject to a boil water notice have to pay this charge?

Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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I have already asked Deputy Healy to refrain from interrupting the Minister.

Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Workers and Unemployed Action Group)
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It is a reasonable question.

Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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I have asked you to refrain. Please listen to the instruction of the Chair. The Minister of State without interruption.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The Government is committed to ensuring that Irish Water serves the interests of all its customers. The regulator has been provided with statutory powers to act as the economic regulator. All of Irish Water's charges will be subject to regulatory approval and all the processes around that will be subject to approval. It is not what Irish Water wants to do; it is what the CER gives it the power to do and not to do. There is a big issue there which will be resolved independently if there are problems.

All of Uisce Éireann's charges will be subject to this approval. A policy direction will be issued to the regulator such that the decisions around the funding model will be built into the tariff structure. The regulator will undertake consultations in June 2014 before the tariffs are announced in August.

The Government has also made an announcement about the position of households without a meter when charges commence. We have announced that the charge will be assessed based primarily on occupancy and will be a close proxy to the actual meter charge. Moreover, where the household is subsequently metered, there will be a provision for rebates above a reasonable threshold if the usage has been assessed as too high.

The funding model announced by the Government is fair and has the interests of customers at heart. The average water charge will be €240, which compares very favourably with charges in the UK not to mention the charge in Northern Ireland which is, on average, €980 per household.

Paudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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I ask the Minister of State to conclude.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The introduction of water charges is a very important step in creating a sustainable water utility. We need to ensure that the water system can provide adequate security of supply for employment and our towns and cities and to promote economic development. The people of Ireland deserve first-class water services and this Government is ensuring they will be delivered.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy Calleary for moving this motion last night in my absence. Irrespective of what it might be and the scrutiny we might place on it, I thank the Government for eventually coming forward with a package despite the fact that it was dragged kicking and screaming before we could analyse this in the manner it deserves. I do not want to rehash or go into huge detail about the story that has been Irish Water since it was first announced in March 2012. This was a story that was clouded in secrecy where a concerted effort was made by the Government to withhold information about the mammoth costs associated with the setting up of Irish Water from this House by virtue of not answering parliamentary questions and, by association, withholding information from the public.

Despite Government assurances when it awarded Bord Gáis the contract, we learned in January 2014 that Bord Gáis did not have half the expertise at its disposal that it apparently stated it did have when it won the contract from Bord na Móna in the first instance. We know now that this misinformation cost the taxpayer €80 million. That was the cost associated with consultancy fees or as was explained to us thereafter, outside expertise. I understand that queries from many Members and most definitely those from the media are being farmed out to a public relations company for answering. We have obviously learned nothing since then if it is still paying huge rates for outside expertise in respect of simple questions.

That misinformation also cost the Government and Irish Water their credibility in respect of this project. It allowed us to shine a light on Irish Water and that light exposed the fact that Irish Water was growing and continues to grow into a super-sized, bonus-driven quango - a quango of a middle and high-ranking management tier that is newly created on top of existing personnel and expertise in local authorities. This is a quango that rushed to create its own corporate identity and has yet to identify a specific roadmap or plan having failed to publish, audit and identify how it would reduce leakage, for example, from 40% to 20%. We have no idea, as many Members said earlier.

This quango and Government were always solely interested in inflicting charges as soon as was practicably possible. The Government has form in the few short years it has been in office because it inflicted a household charge and a property tax without, as it said itself, a red cent being spent locally in the counties and local authorities from which it was taken despite a promise given in the past. We should not be surprised that it would put the cart before the horse in this area as well.

I have read the various reports outlining the details of yesterday's announcement. I have watched and listened attentively to Labour and Fine Gael representatives in the media and in this House seek to assure the public that the charges that are now being proposed are fair and reasonable. However, I have also listened to representatives from Irish Water and was particularly interested to hear them say that they will still get the full cost recovery from households. One of Irish Water's representatives stated categorically today that in the absence of a standing charge, Irish Water will make up the difference by virtue of raising the price of water per litre in order to compensate it for the loss it experienced when Labour challenged the Fine Gael Minister some weeks ago.

I have also been asking myself why the Government did not produce tables of different family types and different households, as it would in a budget, to show the public the effect of these proposed charges. In the absence of such tables, it seems that it is up to us in Opposition as usual to expose what is going on here. I will give the Minister of State some options and examples which I believe to be correct having listened to Irish Water today. If I am wrong, I want the Minister of State and the Government to correct it immediately so that the public has a better idea of what exactly it will cost them when these charges come through their doors next January. I will bring the Minister of State back three weeks ago when Fine Gael brought its memo to Cabinet. We were told that the charge would be €240 per average household, there would be a free allowance and there would be a €50 standing charge.

Let us analyse that. The CSO says that an average household is 2.7 occupants. The average use by any person is reckoned to be 55,000 l per year. So if one multiplies 2.7 by 55,000, that adds up to 148,500 l. We will permit a free allowance of 30,000 l considering that this was what the Government said yesterday and assuming that was what it was saying three weeks ago. That is 118,500 l used. Irish Water has its €50 standing charge off the top so let us divide 190 by 118,500 l. This gives one a cost per litre of €0.0016. That is the average. Let us look at the example of a household with parents and four children, one of whom is over 18. This is based on three weeks ago. Six times 55,000 litres is 330,000 l. The free allowance for the household of 30,000 l - that was what the Government said then - so 300,000 l are used by that household. If one uses the example I have just explained which is the per litre rate of €0.0016, the charge ends up being €480 per year. That is a long way from €240.

Let us fast forward to yesterday when Labour supposedly had its say. We all get together, find the reason to throw this at the wall and allow it to stick long enough to get us beyond 23 May and let the repercussions come thereafter if they wish but our candidates will not be sacrificed in the mean time. That is the message that had to be put out. Let us go back to the average people again - 2.7 occupants per household and 148,500 l less the free allowance per household of 30,000 l. Let us assume the 0.7 occupant is under 18, let us allow them to become one whole person rather than 0.7 of one and take away another 38,000 which the Government says is the free allowance for a child under 18. We have 88,500 l to be costed. Irish Water says it will get full cost recovery so it must up the rate per cent per litre. It comes out at 0.0027 cent per litre. Let us go back to the family of two plus four with one person over 18. A total of 330,000 l are used and the free allowance for the household is 30,000.

Let us have the Labour Party's sap. With three children under the age of 18 years, let us allow them 38,000 litres each. Great, it will do this. That is a total of 114,000 litres. That means only 196,000 litres will have to be charged for, but they will be charged for at 0.0027 cent per litre, which is equal to a figure of €527. That is the point Deputy Joe Higgins has been making all day, but nobody wants to listen to him or give him time for fear it might get out. The cat is out of the bag on this one.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Absolutely.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The claim that working families have been protected by maintaining the average bill is nothing short of dishonest. The entire repackaging of water charges is nothing more than a complex PR exercise to spare the blushes of the guys involved and to allow people to think Fine Gael is listening to its partner in government and that it will give it a break. What the Government has done is up the charges to be paid, not reduce them. Either the Minister of State will publish the cost per litre, tonight or before 23 May, in order that families will be able to see the real costs and charges or I and, I am sure, Deputy Joe Higgins and others will say that, as usual, the public has been sold a pup and a pig in a poke. It is a three-card trick. I commend the motion to the House.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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It is a total falsehood.