Dáil debates
Wednesday, 7 November 2012
Order of Business
11:00 am
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is proposed to take No. 16a, motion re membership of committee; No. 16b, Animal Health and Welfare Bill 2012 Seanad - financial resolution; and No. 21, Personal Insolvency Bill 2012 - Report and Final Stages (resumed). It is proposed,notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. tonight and adjourn not later than 10 p.m.; Nos. 16a and 16b shall be decided without debate; and in the event a division is in progress at the time fixed for taking Private Members’ business, which shall be No. 72 – motion re pensions and retirement lump sums (resumed), Standing Order 121(3) shall not apply and Private Members’ business shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 90 minutes.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are three proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Nos. 16a and 16b agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Private Members' business agreed to? Agreed.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am sure the Taoiseach will agree that the media play a critical role in our democracy, that a plurality of media is essential, that there must be diverse articulation of opinion across the board and that an over-concentration of media ownership in a democracy is potentially very harmful. Will the Taoiseach say when he expects the promised Consumer and Competition Bill to be published? Can he confirm that there appears to be some rowing back from the media dimension of that Bill, as I have read recently, and that there will not now be legislation dealing with media plurality and media ownership? It is not on the A, B or C list of proposed legislation.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I agree that the media are critical in how they present the issues of the day. Objectivity, clarity and truth are very important. However, I see many stories being spun in particular ways and I have no control over that. This matter is obviously important for every person in the country. The Consumer and Competition Bill will be published in this session-----
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Media mergers legislation?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is an element of the Bill that the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, will pilot through the House. The Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources also has a role in respect of the Bill.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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We are going to the polls on Saturday to vote in the referendum on children's rights. Many citizens are very concerned about a number of matters. One of them is the family law courts and the lack of transparency and oversight in respect of their proceedings. When is it proposed to bring forward the Courts Bill? It would have been preferable to have had that legislation or the heads of that Bill published in advance of the referendum.
The second proposed legislative measure relates to the rights of adoptive people, the Adoption (Tracing and Information) Bill. Again, this matter is of enormous concern to adoptive people who feel their rights have been ignored for many years. Finally, one of the many vexed legacy issues arising from the historical mistreatment of children by this State is the issue of illegal adoptions. I understand the Minister has not yet met with the persons concerned. Can the Taoiseach indicate when that meeting might happen?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should only ask about legislation.
Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Can the Taoiseach give an indication as to what the State response will be? I raise these issues because there are people who legitimately wish to underpin the rights of children but who have huge concerns in respect of the operation of the family law courts, the area of adoption and tracing and the continuing failure of the State to deal with illegal adoptions in the past.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Minister for Children and Youth Affairs has already met with the Adoption Rights Alliance and other associations, and is in active discussions with them. The Adoption (Tracing and Information) Bill will be published early in the new year.
The Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Alan Shatter, is working actively on the issue of transparency in the courts, which has been raised by him over many years, with particular reference to the in camera rule and the difference between privacy and secrecy. We expect that Bill to be published within a few weeks. It is an important Bill.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Workers and Unemployed Action Group)
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A section of the programme for Government deals with the reform of third level education, but the first attempt at this has been a disaster. There are huge waiting lists and backlogs for approval of student grants. This has led to a situation where students are being threatened with their back-to-education allowance being cut off and with not being allowed to use information technology, IT, services in third level colleges. Will the Taoiseach allocate time for a full debate on the ridiculous situation that has arisen as a result of the centralisation of third level education grants?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That matter can be dealt with in a Topical Issues debate. If the Deputy submits a Topical Issues matter, I will consider it.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Workers and Unemployed Action Group)
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The matter is covered in the programme for Government. The Taoiseach must be aware of the difficulties that have arisen and he could surely allow a discussion on it in the House.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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You can have a debate on it, but not on the Order of Business.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Workers and Unemployed Action Group)
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Will the Taoiseach allocate time for a debate on it?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Ask your Whip. The Whips can discuss it at their meeting.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Workers and Unemployed Action Group)
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It is effectively the Government Whip who decides.
Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The proposed Health Information Bill is intended to provide a legislative framework for the better governance of health information. Is the Taoiseach aware that strong rumours are circulating in the disability sector about proposed cuts of between 8% and 10% over the next couple of weeks and that transport and respite care will be directly affected by this? With regard to yesterday's decision, €26 million was wasted on the Mater Hospital site. That money could have been used to fund disability services.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We could have used the €3 billion for the promissory note each year for the next ten years for many things too. The Deputy asked about strong rumours. I have no interest in rumours or speculation. That is a matter for Government decision, and the Government will make that decision in time for the budget in December. Anything else the Deputy hears is merely speculation or rumour, be it strong or weak, and I have no interest in that.
Patrick Nulty (Dublin West, Labour)
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Shortly after taking office the Government established a commission to examine the implications of the European Court of Human Rights decision on the A, B and C cases. There have been delays in the publication of that special working group's report. Will it be published before Christmas and will it be debated in the House during this session? Does the Government intend to bring forward legislation to give effect to the X case judgment of 1992?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is there promised legislation on this?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Minister and the Government set up an expert group to deal with the judgment in the A, B and C cases. That report has to be presented to the Minister for Health. When the Minister considers the report he will bring it to the Government and there will be an opportunity for a debate. The remit of the expert group was to present a range of options arising from the judgment in the A, B and C cases.
11:10 am
Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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In reply to Deputy Martin, the Taoiseach confirmed he expects to see the consumer and competition Bill this session.
Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach mentioned that the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, is piloting the Bill through the House but that there would be a role for the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte. Media ownership goes to the heart of our democracy and perhaps the Taoiseach can give us an indication of the role of the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte.
When will the Government publish the legislation providing for a national DNA database?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That will happen in this session. When the Bill is published, the responsibilities of the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources and the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation will be laid out.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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The national children's hospital is a flagship proposal that everyone welcomes and endorses. Will legislation be required to stop the unsightly leaks from Cabinet involving the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, and the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, briefing anyone who will listen that they opposed-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Kelleher should hold on a second. He knows he is out of order and does not need me to tell him. The issue can be raised by way of parliamentary question.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Can Deputy Kelleher say that with a straight face?
Ray Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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What legislation does this concern?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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No laughing.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Kelleher did well yesterday.
Ray Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I will put a word in with Trim drama group, which is looking for an actor.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Kelleher should resume his seat. He knows he is out of order. We are not playing games. I call Deputy Durkan.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is undermining credibility.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Kelleher knows as well as I do that he is out of order, having spent years on the Government benches. I ask Deputy Kelleher to resume his seat.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is like being attacked by dead sheep.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask Deputy Kelleher to behave himself.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The friendly societies and industrial and provident societies (miscellaneous provisions) Bill has been promised for good reason. Have the heads of the Bill been discussed in Cabinet and to what extent has progress been achieved?
On a related matter, considerable concern has been expressed by many charities and I am uncertain whether they will come within the remit of the Bill. Many legitimate charities are concerned about the need to update legislation with regard to charities. Will it be taken with this Bill or will a separate Bill be introduced?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The heads of the Bill were cleared last June and it will be next year before it is published. Deputy Kelleher welcomes the clarity and decisiveness of the Government in making the decision to build the national paediatric hospital on the site at St. James's Hospital, which-----
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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And the dissenting voices in Cabinet.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----puts an end to all the speculation. As many people have said, let us get on with it and build it in the interests of all of the children of our country.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach should keep Joan onside; the Tánaiste has not done so.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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What about the charities Bill?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will revert to Deputy Durkan with the details on that Bill.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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On promised legislation, I am sure the Taoiseach is aware a gagging order has been placed on rank and file gardaí with regard to speaking about the closure of rural Garda stations. With regard to the criminal justice (victims rights) Bill, to strengthen the rights of victims of crime, there will be more victims of crime if our rural Garda stations close. What does the Taoiseach have to say about the gagging order on members of the Garda Síochána?
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach cannot say anything on the Order of Business, whatever about anywhere else.
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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I am sure he has a view on the matter.
Brendan Griffin (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Michael Healy-Rae and others stayed quiet for 14 years. Were they gagged as well?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I can confirm there was no gagging order. Deputy Michael Healy-Rae is vocal in carrying messages and he does it regularly. We do not yet have a date for the criminal justice (victims rights) Bill.
Brendan Griffin (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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I previously raised the issue of the Construction Contracts Bill, as have other Deputies. I raised it in the context of a major dispute on the N86, Tralee to Dingle road, where people who worked on the road are not being paid even though it is being financed by State finance.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank Deputy Griffin. That is a separate issue and Deputy Griffin should ask about the legislation.
Brendan Griffin (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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I repeat my call for the Bill to be prioritised because it is important-----
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
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Deputy Griffin is repeating my comment, which I made yesterday.
Brendan Griffin (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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I made it the week before, Deputy Michael Healy-Rae. I am always a step ahead. In the context of the roads (amendment) Bill, it is important provision is made for all workers on State jobs, particularly those funded by the NRA, that-----
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a topic for a parliamentary question.
Brendan Griffin (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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-----those working on the project should be covered for payment. No worker on a State job, funded by bodies such as the NRA, should go unpaid for the work done.
Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is grand. Deputy Griffin can table a parliamentary question.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Construction Contracts Bill is awaiting Committee Stage in the Dáil and a great amount of work has been done on it. The roads (amendment) Bill will be taken next year.
Ray Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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When will the education (admission to school) Bill be published, to ensure the process of enrolling by schools is more open, equitable and consistent? It is in connection with Trim being one of the pilot scheme areas for the patronage of school survey and Educate Together. There is confusion about the issue.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The heads of the education (admission to school) Bill are being prepared so it will be next year before it is published.
Jonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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When will the Criminal Justice (Spent Convictions) Bill be in the Chamber for discussion?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It will be taken in the new year. It is before the Seanad, awaiting Committee Stage.