Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Independent)
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Question 28: To ask the Minister for Defence the way it is intended to achieve the administrative efficiencies of €21million in full as contained in the Budget 2011 proposals; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [47261/10]

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Question 69: To ask the Minister for Defence the basis on which he proposes to have administrative efficiencies in his Department leading to savings of €3 million in 2011 and €21 million in a full year; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [47360/10]

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 71: To ask the Minister for Defence if he will make a statement on his Department's estimate for 2011 [47258/10]

Tony Killeen (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 28, 69 and 71 together.

In common with all areas of the public service, the Department of Defence and the Defence Forces will operate with reduced funding for 2011. The gross Estimate for Department of Defence and Army pensions combined in 2011 is €933 million, an overall reduction of 4% on the 2010 Estimate. Defence spending at €725 million, including capital, will be reduced by €30 million or 4% on the 2010 Estimate. The provision for Army pensions for 2011 is €208 million, which is, of course, non-discretionary expenditure.

It should be noted that a very significant proportion of defence spending is accounted for by pay and allowances. The bulk of the non-pay element is spent on items such as fuel and utility costs and the maintenance and replacement of essential stores and equipment.

The expenditure reductions in 2011 will be achieved mainly through the reduction in the cost of participation in overseas missions, in addition to savings delivered through the postponement of expenditure on equipment and capital works across the Defence Forces. The 2011 capital Estimate of €12 million reflects a 25% reduction on the 2010 provision. Capital spending will focus on building works to improve the accommodation and facilities of the Defence Forces.

While there have been reductions in the overall defence budget, steady investment since 2000 means that the Defence Forces are well placed to address the challenges for 2011.

The administrative efficiencies of €3 million in 2011 will be achieved chiefly through reduced employee numbers and related costs. The full year yield of €21 million on administrative efficiencies referred to in budget 2011 relates primarily to payroll savings across the Vote that will accumulate by 2014.

Expenditure in every area of Defence Forces activity is being critically appraised. The priority now and into the future is to maintain the capability of the Defence Forces to deliver effective services across all the roles assigned by Government.

Brian O'Shea (Waterford, Labour)
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The four year plan states that the defence area will contribute savings of €106 million by 2014. One of the issues mentioned is a reduction in the number of civilian employees attached to military installations. What exactly does that mean and what type of numbers may be involved? It obviously indicates that the duties carried out by civilians previously will now be carried out by military personnel, against the backdrop of a decrease in the number of officers and enlisted personnel in the Defence Forces. Are we in danger of reaching a level where the Defence Forces would no longer be a credible organisation fit for purpose?

Tony Killeen (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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As to the latter concern, I have no worries in that regard. I am absolutely certain that the Defence Forces will be fit for purpose, and that has been proven. Of all Departments, the Department of Defence and the Defence Forces have most successfully addressed downsizing, while improving quality of service simultaneously, to an extraordinary extent. This is testimony to the professionalism and commitment of all those in the Defence Forces, their representative associations and the Department of Defence.

I am absolutely confident that the challenges in the period 2011-14 can be addressed successfully. The framework to address them will need to be sketched during 2011, in my view. For 2011 everything has been sorted out as regards the matters we discussed earlier, overseas service and so forth, and we are fortunate to have very good equipment, to the highest standard, and most of it very new. Therefore there are no requirements in that regard either this year or next, and indeed very limited ones for 2013-14 in that regard, too. Fortunately, the stores are full to an extent which means there is no challenge in that regard in the short to medium term. It is as well to bear in mind that the Defence Forces and indeed, the Department, are very well positioned.

On the specific question about civilian personnel, that is something which will have to be considered in the context of the framework of options. There will not be compulsory redundancy and in the event that vacancies arise specific decisions will have to be made to ensure that whatever challenges they may pose are addressed.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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The Minister said the full-year yield of €21 million on administrative efficiencies relates to payroll savings, and that will accumulate by 2014. Does that mean it will be €21 million in the full year, 2014, or will it accumulate between now and 2014? Could the Minister say what this actually means per annum between now and 2014?

Also, he talks about reduced personnel numbers. Is that primarily civilian personnel or does it refer to further reductions in military personnel?

Tony Killeen (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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It is mainly on the civilian employee side. I understand there are considerable opportunities available in that area, but the framework will have to be discussed with the stakeholders. It would be very unwise and unhelpful for a Minister or anybody else to lay out a narrow construct as regards what should be achieved over the period. Yesterday, I engaged with the two representative organisations and there are a whole lot of other players in this area that have an input to all of this. I do not believe any Department has achieved as much as the Department of Defence and the Defence Forces over recent years. They are very well placed to deal with these challenges and very well equipped, which can be an enormous cost.

There is an ongoing cost, for example the purchase of the two ships, that is factored into the accounts and safely dealt with. There is a White Paper process and in the context of that some work has to be done on the four year element. To embark on the ten year White Paper process without taking account of the parameters of the 2011-14 element would seem to me to be ill-advised. That may delay the White Paper process somewhat, although my hope is that it can be accommodated within it. The ultimate point lies in deciding what is required of the Defence Forces by the Government and the State. That will be set out to a considerable extent in a White Paper. It is a very big and important job that is gradually coming to be better understood, and this, in a sense has to be the defining centre of how one operates all that flows from that.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is very clever in that he has avoided my question. Is the €21 million in respect of 2014 or is to be accumulated between now and 2014? Perhaps the Minister will also provide a breakdown of the overall figure for each year between now and 2014.

Tony Killeen (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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It is stated in the reply that administrative efficiencies of €3 million in 2011 will be achieved through reduced employee numbers. The four year yield of €21 million on administrative efficiencies relates primarily to payroll savings across the Vote. They are accumulated and not defined and would be likely to arise more or less in proportion across the four year period. The figure will be €3 million in 2011 and so on and so forth, accumulating to €21 million.