Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Question 34: To ask the Minister for Social Protection the action he is taking to assist persons who are over indebted and need help and advice in coping with debt problems; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21936/10]

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The Money Advice and Budgeting Service, MABS, assists people who are over-indebted and need help and advice in coping with debt problems.

There are 52 independent MABS companies operating the money advice and budgeting services from 65 locations throughout the country, with national support provided by the MABS NDL. In addition, the MABS national telephone helpline is available from 9 a.m. to 8 p.m., Monday to Friday, and the MABS website can be accessed 24 hours a day at www.mabs.ie. Last year an additional 19 money advisers were recruited by MABS between September and December, bringing the number of MABS staff to over 270. The additional advisers have been appointed to MABS companies throughout the country.

The money adviser works out a budget and negotiates on behalf of the client with all creditors, including financial institutions and sub-prime lenders, to secure better terms for the client in managing the repayment of their debts. Where required by the client, the money adviser can assist with setting up a special account with a local credit union into which the client lodges an agreed amount of money regularly and from which each month the money adviser makes the repayments to the creditors on behalf of the client.

It is important that people coping with debt difficulties take early action and approach MABS for help and guidance. This can be the first positive step for people in addressing debt difficulties. I am satisfied that the Money Advice and Budgeting Service is providing a high quality service to assist people in overcoming their indebtedness and managing their finances.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The Minister's answer worries me if he thinks that MABS is the only solution to the debt crisis. It is part of the answer but it is not the whole solution. The Government has done nothing in terms of enforcing debt procedures, regulating debt collection and providing any sort of new system of personal insolvency.

Has he any idea how many mortgage advice cases the 52 independent MABS companies have dealt with and what the success rate has been? There are almost 30,000 people in arrears and 250,000 in negative equity. What caseload is MABS carrying? What is the average waiting time for a face-to-face appointment with MABS?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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That is a detailed question arising from a general question.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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It was the Minister's reply, not my question, that concentrated on MABS.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Enright asked the average waiting time.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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For a face-to-face meeting.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I understand the average waiting time is four weeks. Meetings are priortised and if there is a need for a more urgent appointment that is also considered.

There are protocols agreed with the Irish Banking Federation. It agreed to approach debt problems experienced by the clients. The objective is to agree affordable sustainable repayment plans for people with debt problems. It includes a commitment that no legal action will be taken as long as there is compliance by the client with an agreed repayment plan, which is mutually acceptable, affordable and sustainable. This is being monitored to see how well it is working.

There is then the issue of those who are not covered by the Irish Bank Federation.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Exactly.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I understand that there are discussions taking place to try to extend the protocol to other major groups such as credit unions and utilities and that they are also discussing this issue with one of the sub-prime lenders.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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There is a lack of urgency in this regard. Arrears are growing by the day. People are getting farther and farther into debt and the response is not dealing with it.

The Department has a role here in terms of mortgage interest supplement. There is a review that has been ongoing since I came into this position opposite the then Minister for Social and Family Affairs. We are spending €70 million on this. Effectively, the Department is handing this cheque to the financial institutions. They are now telling customers to seek a mortgage interest supplement and then they will re-negotiate. When will the review on mortgage interest supplements be completed? Approximately one third of cases are being refused. We do not have definite figures from the Minister. We need the review so that we can have a real discussion on how this operates and link that in to the overall debt issue. When will we see that review?

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I agree that the review needs to be brought to a conclusion. I would also bring to Deputy Enright's attention the Cooney committee, the special committee set up to look urgently at the question of indebtedness.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I met with that committee. I am aware of it.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I met with Mr. Cooney also and my Department is part of it. My understanding is the committee is to report next month.

I agree that this is probably one of the most urgent issues that I must deal with as Minister. The Deputy can rest assured that since I came into the Department, I have put a great deal of time, effort and emphasis on the need to move forward with viable proposals to deal with all of these issues.

Looking at the statistics, a large number of the clients of MABS are in rented accommodation. These are not all mortgage holders.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Only a small number of those with a mortgage problem are going to MABS.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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That is correct.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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They do not feel they are able to get all the advice they need because MABS is not resourced to give them that extra sort of advice.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I fully agree there is need for urgent proposals on how we deal with debt problems. One of my big concerns is that often I find where there are mortgage problems there are a great many other debt problems on top of them and dealing with the mortgage in isolation is not the solution. Having spoken to many of the people involved in MABS as I go around the country, they also bring that to my attention, that it is a complex problem and we must come up with a comprehensive solution to deal with debt problems and as far as possible, through agreements, protocols and new systems, to avoid it going to litigation.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Ceist a 35.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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When will we see action on that?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Ceist a 35 in ainm on Teachta cheanna.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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We are not far from agreeing.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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My hope is that we will get this report quickly-----

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Ceist a 35 in ainm an Teachta cheanna, Deputy Enright.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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-----and then we can act on it quickly. I agree on the urgency, and particularly that it is important to protect people's houses.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Ceist a 35, le do thoil.