Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Question 37: To ask the Minister for Education and Science if he will offer first refusal to the further education sector, including the vocational education committees and the institutes of technology, to provide the 51,000 training places for the unemployed announced recently by the Minister for Enterprise Trade and Employment; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12335/09]

Seán Haughey (Dublin North Central, Fianna Fail)
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There are no plans to alter the present arrangements in regard to the provision of education and training courses for recently unemployed workers.

FÁS, in addition to its own delivery of courses, already contracts with other education and training providers for the provision of relevant courses. It should be noted that the additional places referred to by the Deputy are being provided by FÁS from within existing resources.

It is open to vocational education committees and the institutes of technology to bid for the provision of appropriate courses. At present, VECs already provide courses on behalf of FÁS under the one step up initiative. Examples include the skills for work programme delivered under the workplace basic education fund which provides education and training in basic skills at FETAC level 3. VECs also provide courses for participants in FÁS-run community education schemes under the return to education programme. In addition, VECs provide courses under the learning at work and competency development programmes.

In particular, the Department of Education and Science participates in the upskilling co-ordination group chaired by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and comprising representatives of key training providers including FÁS, Skillnets, Engineers Ireland, the county enterprise boards, the VECs, the institutes of technology and the Higher Education Authority. The purpose of the group is to discuss any issues concerning the provision of training that arise among the State's key training providers. It aims to improve interagency co-operation, facilitate the exchange of information on operational and policy aspects and the avoidance of duplication. It also aims to ensure that the impact realised from the State's investment in education and training is maximised.

In the broader context, the Department of Education and Science liaises with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment with a view to improving the co-ordination of our efforts and facilitating better co-operation and collaboration at local and regional level among the relevant education and training providers. All of these organisations are working together at both national and local level to ensure that both the education and training sectors respond in an optimal way to the difficult situation we currently face.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I thank the Minister of State for his reply but remind him that since the last general election, 200,000 extra people have gone on the live register, some for the first time. What he describes is business as usual when we, effectively, had full employment. If FÁS has the capacity for an extra 51,000, then there is something seriously wrong with the organisation. We know from the quality of some of the back to work courses it offered in the past that they are substandard to meet the needs of the type of people who have been high flyers with SR Technics or elsewhere and who want to go to an institute of technology to get computer skills or otherwise.

The 51,000 places will, I estimate, cost of the order of an extra €70 million. If the figure is of that magnitude, will the Minister of State make a clear commitment to this House that he will not assign it to FÁS to subcontract out to somebody else, including many private contractors whose quality is dubious, but to the institutes of technology and other bodies under his remit in education to provide new types of courses for recently unemployed people who do not want to do the traditional back to work courses which will not meet their needs?

Seán Haughey (Dublin North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I accept what the Deputy said about the challenges we face at this time because of the rise in unemployment. Further and higher education have a role to play as do FÁS and the training agencies generally.

The 51,000 places announced by FÁS are part of the overall provision of 79,000 places provided by FÁS training services. This has come about in the main due to a change in the model of training provision internally in FÁS which has resulted in maximising existing resources and methodologies to deliver an increased volume of service to the number of people announced.

These challenges in the provision of further education and training and higher education generally are recognised by the Department of Education and Science. As I said, it is open to vocational education committees and the institutes of technology to bid for the provision of appropriate courses. There is a tendering process in place. At the end of the day, a tendering process gets value for money, of which we must be conscious.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I thought that when the Minister of State was appointed to the two Departments that his primary responsibility would be to cement the bridge between the Departments of Education and Science and Enterprise, Trade and Employment. Part of the task at this moment of crisis is to capture as many resources as possible for the control of the education system. FÁS simply cannot do this job, and I have been there. Anybody in FÁS who is telling the Minister of State otherwise is telling the same kind of stories we got from FÁS which led to recent upheavals in that organisation.

There is under-capacity in the institutes of technology for courses which people recently unemployed want to attend. They do not want to go on a back to work course but want to upskill their IT skills in places of education like the institutes of technology. The fact the institutes of technology are free to bid means they are closed out. That is Civil Service speak for saying they did not win the contract.

The Minister of State should assign half the 51,0000 places to the education sector without subcontracting and half to FÁS and let them compete with each other. Let us see what the market says and to which the unemployed people sign up. I wager that they will go to the institutes of technology long before they go to——

Seán Haughey (Dublin North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am responsible for the co-ordination of programme implementation across the Departments of Education and Science and Enterprise, Trade and Employment with the aim of progressing the lifelong learning agenda. In that regard, I ensured delivery to the target groups of relevant programmes across the two Departments and their relevant agencies and offices, including FÁS. That was a mouthful. I accept my responsibilities.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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The Minister of State did not write his script.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
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Can the Minister of State run that by us again? We missed it.

Seán Haughey (Dublin North Central, Fianna Fail)
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My role is to co-ordinate between the two Departments for the first time, in a very significant way, the provision of education and training. I believe we are making progress in that regard through the upskilling co-ordination group, which meets several times a year. I believe, because of the scarce resources which we are experiencing at the present time that we are, slowly but surely, getting efficiency in the delivery of education and training programmes, the elimination of duplication and so forth.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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There are 200,000 extra people, some of whom have never been on the dole before.

Seán Haughey (Dublin North Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is recognised by the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Mary Coughlan and by myself, as a Minister of State at the Departments of Education and Enterprise, Trade and Employment with special responsibility for lifelong learning. We are constantly reviewing the situation, with a view to coming forward with new initiatives and, generally speaking, to try and get the best value for the scarce resources we have.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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The Minister of State will not get it from FÁS.