Dáil debates

Wednesday, 11 February 2009

Ceisteanna—Questions

Freedom of Information.

11:00 am

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach the number of freedom of information requests received by his Department during November 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [44686/08]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach the number of freedom of information requests which were processed by his Department during 2008; the number which have been acceded to; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [46572/08]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach the number of freedom of information applications received in his Department during 2008; the way these figures compare with the same period in each year since 2002; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1005/09]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 7: To ask the Taoiseach the number of freedom of information requests received by his Department in 2008 and the same figure for 2003; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1780/09]

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 4 to 7, inclusive, together.

Ten freedom of information requests were received in the Department of the Taoiseach in November 2008. The number of requests received in 2008 as a whole was 83, 64 of which were granted or part granted and ten of which were withdrawn. There were no records in respect of six requests. In the other three cases, the records sought were exempt from release. The table that follows this reply sets out the other figures requested by the Deputies. All freedom of information applications received by the Department of the Taoiseach are processed by statutorily designated officials in accordance with the Freedom of Information Acts 1997 and 2003. In accordance with the Acts, I have no role in processing individual applications.

Year2002200320042005200620072008
Totals1461424561547183

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I would like to make two comments. When certain activities in FÁS were being investigated recently, the members of the Committee of Public Accounts obtained more relevant information from the individual freedom of information requests they submitted than from the documentation the semi-State body in question furnished to the committee. In other words, less information was supplied on foot of requests from the committee to the agency than was obtained on foot of the freedom of information requests submitted by the members of the committee. Perhaps that justifies the existence of the freedom of information system. As the overseer of that system, the Taoiseach should ensure that State bodies provide the fullest possible information when freedom of information requests are made.

In response to a previous question, the Taoiseach told me that 10,704 freedom of information requests were made to the Office of the Information Commissioner in 2007. That figure represented a reduction of 42% since 2003. The number of requests submitted to the Department of the Taoiseach decreased by 50% over the same time, from 142 in 2003 to 71 in 2007. I do not think people have stopped making requests because they have got all the information they want. The Tenth Report by the Minister for Finance on Freedom of Information, which was published on 28 October 2008, highlighted the shortfalls in the freedom of information system's fee structure. The Information Commission has pointed out that Ireland is one of only two of eight comparable jurisdictions to charge people to make freedom of information appeals. Ontario charges €16 for an appeal, but Ireland charges €150. When the Taoiseach was the Minister for Finance, he dismissed the Information Commissioner's call for a decrease in the fees imposed in respect of freedom of information requests and appeals. The commissioner has described the fees as being part of a "culture of secrecy".

At a time when everybody is demanding transparency and accountability, does the Taoiseach, who has said we should have fair play, have any plans to reconsider the Information Commissioner's request for a review of the fee structure? Fine Gael has proposed that a flat fee of €10 should be imposed in respect of requests, reviews and appeals. We have suggested that appeal fees should be refunded if appeals are successful. Does the Taoiseach think the Government could give its consent to such a change? If a person's appeal to the appeals commissioner is granted, surely the appeal fee should be refunded in recognition of that, or as a consequence of it. Would the Taoiseach agree to that?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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As I have indicated previously, questions about possible changes to the Freedom of Information Acts, whether by means of an extension to the principal Act or the revision of fees, should properly be addressed to the Minister for Finance.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Ceann Comhairle is an advocate of fairness and transparency. He is doing a great job around the country.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am only pointing out what is the position.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I often hear the Ceann Comhairle quite rightly telling pupils from all parts of the country that we want openness and transparency.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is right. That involves the right question being asked of the right man.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Thank you.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The ongoing process of extending the Freedom of Information Acts to public bodies is being undertaken by the Department of Finance. As Minister for Finance, I oversaw the biggest ever extension of the scope of the Freedom of Information Acts, to a further 137 bodies, in 2006. More than 520 bodies are now covered by the freedom of information regime. Just 67 bodies were covered when the original Freedom of Information Act came into operation ten years ago. I do not think anyone can question our commitment to wider transparency and accountability. The Department of Finance is making arrangements to extend the scope of the freedom of information scheme to a further group of bodies, including the Law Reform Commission, which is the only body under the aegis of the Department of the Taoiseach that has yet to be included in the scheme. I expect the Minister for Finance to make an announcement in this regard in due course.

I understand there are no plans to review the freedom of information fee structure, which is a matter for the Minister for Finance in the first instance. The current structure, which was introduced in 2003, provides that a fee of €15 is imposed when a freedom of information request is made. I contend that the fee is modest when compared with the estimated average administrative cost of processing a freedom of information request, which is €485. I remind the House that almost 11,000 such requests were made in 2007. I do not believe anybody would argue that the fee is unreasonable, or that it discourages people from making responsible freedom of information requests. It is important to point out that no charge is imposed in respect of the time that is taken to examine the records sought with a view to determining whether they may be released. Equally, no charge is imposed in respect of access to personal information. The fees charged under the freedom of information scheme have not increased since they were introduced in July 2003.

Deputy Kenny referred in particular to the fees that are charged when appeals are made. I remind him that it costs €75 for an internal appeal and €150 for an appeal to the Office of the Information Commissioner. Significant reductions may be availed of by medical card holders, who are asked to pay fees of €25 and €50, respectively, for appeals in each category. Appeals concerning personal information are entirely exempt from the fee structure. The making of appeals to the Information Commissioner is a quasi-judicial process. It can take many months to complete the process, as it can entail a considerable amount of work. The fee that is charged in such circumstances is a fair reflection of the nature of the appeal process and the costs and time involved. It is important to note that a person who submits an appeal to the Information Commissioner may receive a preliminary decision, which gives a good indication of the likely final decision. Such a person can withdraw his or her appeal and obtain a full refund of fees even at that late stage in the process. I understand that 30% of appeals made to the Office of the Information Commissioner are withdrawn. The appeal fee is returned in such cases.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The last time the House discussed this matter on Question Time, I asked the Taoiseach about the Information Commissioner's decision, which was made on foot of a freedom of information request, to release documents that were used during Cabinet discussions on Ireland's greenhouse gas emissions. The Taoiseach told me on that occasion, in October 2008, that it was intended to appeal the decision in line with advice that had been received from the Attorney General. Can the Taoiseach tell the House if the decision in question has been appealed? If so, at what stage is the appeal?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I do not know. I will have to check it out. Does the matter in question relate to the Department of the Taoiseach?

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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When I asked the Taoiseach about this matter on 21 October 2008, I note the record states that the Information Commission had recently made a decision that documents relating to the Cabinet's consideration of Ireland's greenhouse gas emissions should be released. The Freedom of Information Commissioner considered that European Union access to information rules and regulations, including access to environmental information, required that it should be released. The Taoiseach told me at the time that following consultation with the Attorney General's office it had been decided that an appeal should be taken in that case. If he does not know the answer to that question now, I am sure he will communicate it to me in due course.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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In light of the scandals in Irish banking and in FÁS referred to earlier and, all too sadly, many others that have come to light in recent times, will the Taoiseach reconsider his position, when Minister for Finance, on the recommendation of the Information Commissioner not to continue to charge fees for FOI requests and appeals? In the context of all that has taken place, does he consider it is appropriate to revisit the Information Commissioner's recommendation and to set aside fees to strengthen scrutiny across the broad? Does he accept it is the absence of scrutiny that has given rise to much of what we have witnessed and learned, including this morning and sadly, into the future?

Does the Taoiseach also accept that, aside from FOI legislation and the bodies to which it applies, there is a good argument for him to consider a parallel process that would apply to the corporate sector in order that a light can be shone on the conduct, management and standards applying within it in context of the abject failure of the Office of the Financial Regulator to properly give oversight and scrutiny to that sector? Is there now a case for the Taoiseach to consider a further measure that would apply not only to public bodies but to the corporate sector to try to offset the serious lack of confidence and strong distrust within Irish society in regard to that sector?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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In my previous reply to Deputy Kenny on the fees structure I made the point that it is in no way the deterrent some contend it is for the use of Freedom of Information for the purpose of obtaining information. The fees structure is very reasonable in the circumstances, given the nature of the work that is undertaken and the fact that the fee does not even come close to the cost of such information being gathered and collated. In all the circumstances, particularly the full exemption for personal information, the fees structure ensures that presumably, only responsible FOI requests would be pursued rather than people seeking information for the sake of it, putting the system to the trouble of responding only to have it forgotten, with the result that it would not be put to any great public effect.

Regarding the question of the regulatory situation in financial services and banking, all of that is now being considered and reviewed in the European context as well as domestically. We will work with colleagues to examine if the EU-wide regulatory regime is sufficient to meet the new circumstances in which we now find ourselves as a result of the fracture that has taken place in the financial services industry arising from the level of financial innovation that was being conducted, the number of off-balance sheet instruments that were being used and the leveraging of banking assets for the purpose of providing credit, which has led to a crisis of confidence in terms of credit being less available and the banking system being under stress worldwide. Domestically, the Minister for Finance will examine what arrangements he considers should now be proposed to the Government for consideration in respect of new regulatory arrangements that will ensure public confidence can be applied to the oversight and supervision of the financial services industry in Ireland.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. Will he accept it is unfortunate that the argument of vexatious FOIs is used to scuttle any reconsideration of the Information Commissioner's recommendation to abolish fees? In that context, is there not a mechanism that could be introduced for an independent determination as to vexatious as against sincere and serious FOIs? Does he not consider that the Information Commissioner's recommendation in this regard still has merit? By contrast with other jurisdictions, the punitive costs involved in the appeals process here constitutes a serious disincentive. Surely that merits reconsideration in the context of all that we have spoken about.

Will the Taoiseach indicate what recommendations, arising out of the experience of the inadequacy of the Financial Regulator, he and his Government are presenting in the European context for broader consideration and application? I hope this will be done at the earliest possible time.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I do not accept that the fees structure is punitive. The Deputy does not seem to have any evidence to suggest it is punitive. As I said, the fee for medical card holders is €35 and €50. This is in regard to quasi-judicial procedures. One could not go into a court with a lawyer and expect to get anything done for €20 or €50. Having regard to the amount of time being applied to provide this information, the appeal mechanism of the Information Commissioner and the fact that it takes months to address issues, to suggest that the fees structure is a deterrent or a disincentive is not borne out by the facts. Perhaps it has helped in reducing the number of vexatious Freedom of Information requests being submitted. If there is no fees structure in place, one would make it up as one goes along and keep the whole system going trying to collect information simply because somebody seems to want it rather than it being sought for any obvious effect. We must be sensible about this. I believe the balance is very well struck.

On the question of co-ordination and the question of to what extent EU-wide regulatory rules can be applied, that matter is being discussed by ECOFIN and Finance Ministers on an ongoing basis, as are proposals by the Commission, in which Commissioner McCreevy is involved. It is a question of waiting to see what emerges from that, but there is no doubt there is a broader context than simply our own regulatory context — there is a wider issue that must be addressed. This is an international industry and there is a strong movement of capital all over the world. We must have some rules and regulations by which people need to work to ensure there is greater transparency and understanding of what is going on.