Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Question 56: To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if he agrees with the statement by the Director of Public Prosecutions that a constitutional referendum should be held to reinstate the offence of statutory rape, which statement was originally made by him to the Joint Committee on Child Protection in 2006 and repeated by him on 27 June 2008 in a speech at UCC; and if the Government is committed to the holding of such a referendum. [27535/08]

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I am aware of the views of the Director of Public Prosecutions. There is little point in going back over old ground on the reasons for the 2006 Act but, in light of the decision of the Supreme Court in the CC case, the Government had a choice of either introducing emergency legislation that fully complied with that decision or doing nothing in the short term, which would have meant no offence of carnal knowledge of girls under 15 years of age.

The Joint Committee on the Constitutional Amendment on Children is examining the Twenty-eighth Amendment of the Constitution Bill, published in February 2007 by the Minister for Health and Children. It provided wording for inclusion in the Constitution on the rights of children which could be put to the people in a referendum. The wording included a provision that would allow the Oireachtas to pass laws providing for offences of absolute or strict liability committed against or in connection with children under 18 years of age. The committee is due to report to the Oireachtas by the end of November 2008. The Government will await the report of the joint committee. If one thing is clear from events of the past few years, this is not the type of decision that should be rushed. We do not intend to usurp the work of the committee nor to anticipate its report. However, we are in contact with the Attorney General on the options for legislation that might be available.

A referendum has by no means been ruled out. It is still a live option, but any decision to hold a referendum on the reintroduction of absolute liability would only be the beginning of a process. In a referendum, we would have to place before the people the general scheme of a Bill to give effect to what they would be asked to vote on. For example, the age below which absolute protection would apply, the age of consent, the question of sex amongst children of approximately the same age and the liability of persons in a position of authority or trust over the child would be among the issues that would have to be addressed in a general scheme. The people would have to know exactly what they were being asked to vote on. In addition, before asking the people to vote, the Government would like a broad level of agreement among the political parties on the wording of a constitutional amendment and the legislation following a "Yes" vote.

I am intent on fulfilling my duty to safeguard and increase the legal safeguards of all our citizens. Only yesterday, I met my colleagues in the European Union and we acknowledged that the protection of the rights and freedoms of our citizens is the first of the common values held by us as guardians within the Council. We agreed to make protecting children against crime, in particular crime of a sexual nature, an important objective.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Will the Minister confirm he is a member of the committee to which he referred? Does he agree a statutory rape law fulfils a vital role in the scheme of criminal law relating to sexual offences against children, as stated by the DPP? Does he acknowledge that the task of prosecuting in such cases in the absence of a statutory rape law is immensely more difficult? Will the Minister confirm that a referendum remains not an option to reintroduce absolute liability to protect children but Government policy that such a referendum will be held?

Will he acknowledge that the committee to which he referred can make absolutely no progress until all parties to it, including those in government, bring their suggestions and proposals to it as to the substantive legislation that should accompany any such referendum? Will he explain why almost two years since publication of the all-party committee report on child protection, which recommended that such legislation be prepared in draft form as a prerequisite to a referendum, the Government has been completely incapable of producing to the committee proposals of a substantive nature to enable it to make progress?

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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As I said when I attended a recent committee meeting, the Government's position is as it was prior to the establishment of the committee. I have attended committee meetings for only a number of weeks and the more I attend, the more I realise how complex are the issues, not only those of absolute and strict liability but also adoption and softer issues that are in the proposal to amend the Constitution.

With regard to the 2006 Act, the Government had the option of doing nothing and leaving an incredibly difficult situation or introducing a law, which it was always accepted would not be a long-term solution. That is why the Government moved to establish the most recent committee. Members on all sides of the House accept this is not an easy issue. As I stated to the committee, the Government could come in with proposals that would not necessarily be acceptable to Opposition Members. We want to achieve as much consensus as possible on this issue. While some people are of the opinion that a referendum is unnecessary, others are of a different opinion. This situation pertains in a number of parties. For example, members of the Deputy's party hold different opinions.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I want to allow Deputy Shatter to ask a brief supplementary question.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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We must achieve a strong balance between the maximum protection for children while providing people with fair trials.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Will the Minister confirm whether the Government is racked by confusion and indecision on this issue? Will he acknowledge that the child protection committee is not making progress because almost two years after the publication of its proposals to hold a referendum and to draft substantive legislation, the Government has not tabled any measure? Will he also acknowledge that achieving a consensus within a committee is impossible when the only substantive proposals before it have been made by Fine Gael and Sinn Féin? Will he explain to the House how the committee can, while waiting to deal with other issues another day, reach conclusions on the issue of providing an absolute zone of protection for children in the absence of the Government engaging in a discussion on the legislative basis and in circumstances in which the Government is apparently shifting its ground and is on the verge of determining not to hold a referendum?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Before I call on the Minister to respond, matters internal to a committee of the House are, according to Standing Orders and convention, not normally raised in this way.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Shatter stated that Fine Gael submitted——

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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My concern is that young girls at risk should be protected and that prevarication and pretence should be ended.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I do not want to be——

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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We want progress.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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This is an issue on which the House should not divide and for that reason, the Government has sought all-party agreement.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Government should table proposals, but it has none.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Shatter stated that Fine Gael, in his guise, tabled detailed proposals, but, with due respect, a two-page letter is hardly a detailed proposal.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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We have tabled substantive proposals and principles.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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It is more than the Government has done.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Allow the Minister to reply.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Government does not have one page of proposals or suggestions.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The committee has spent endless hours on this matter.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Minister will travel the route of diminishing work we have done, which the Government lacks the capacity to do.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I assure Deputy Shatter that it would be wrong of him to be confrontational regarding this issue. There should be no confrontation.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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It is an issue in respect of which there should be progress. A committee should not cover for inaction when young girls are at risk.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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We are trying to redress a situation that arose as a result of a Supreme Court decision in respect of a 1935 Act. Every Member is doing his or her level best to try to deal with this issue in a reasonable and rational way. To maintain that it can be decided on the back of a stamp would be wrong.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is prevaricating. The Government has done nothing since 2006.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Given the gambling issue as well as this one, should an all-party Government be formed?

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Rabbitte would give out to us were we to jack-boot stuffin.

Barry Andrews (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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He could be the Minister without a portfolio.