Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 80: To ask the Minister for Finance if he will review public private partnerships as a method of financing public projects; and if he will support a full review of the use of PPPs by the Comptroller and Auditor General. [21934/08]

Brian Lenihan Jnr (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Government remains committed to the use of the public private partnership process as a viable Government option for appropriate projects within the overall parameters set out for public investment in infrastructure and public services.

PPP procurement is one option to be used alongside traditional approaches for the delivery of public investment projects. In choosing to adopt the PPP approach for a particular project Departments and agencies must assess, in conjunction with their advisors, the optimum model to use in the prevailing circumstances. There is a wide variety of possible PPP models provided for in legislation and elaborated on in central guidance issued by my Department. Within these models the form of the arrangement entered into would be specific to each project.

The approach offers several advantages which I outlined in an earlier answer. A summary list of PPP projects is available on the public private partnership website — www.ppp.gov.ie. This list includes 73 projects each of which has an estimated capital value over €20 million, which Departments and agencies advise have reached various stages of the PPP appraisal and procurement process. A total of 13 projects are operational and 15 are in construction. In addition, the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government advises there are over 100 projects in the local government sector with a capital value of less than €20 million that are progressing as PPPs.

For specific projects, the Department has the same role in public private partnership projects as it does in capital investment projects generally. Based on Government policy, the Department of Finance sets the overall capital investment framework and the basic principles to be observed for the appraisal, assessment, procurement and evaluation of projects. Individual Ministers are responsible for the projects and programme in their areas, within that overall framework.

Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I agree with the earlier comment from the Acting Chairman that a full debate on this issue is appropriate, but I will not attempt to have such a debate during Oral Questions. Is the Minister confident that public private partnerships represent value for money for taxpayers, especially given the contracting public finances? Will the Minister support a review of PPPs by the Comptroller and Auditor General? I accept the Minister said in his reply that the Government remains committed to PPPs. It is possible to take this view while at the same time support a review of the process, whatever models are employed, to ensure that such models are effective. Does the Minister for Finance agree that under the current public private partnership arrangements, it appears the private sector incurs a low risk?

Brian Lenihan Jnr (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Comptroller and Auditor General spoke to the Committee of Public Accounts on this matter on 17 April and he emphasised that it is not the case that PPPs are good and traditional procurement is bad, or vice versa, rather that certain situations are more suitable to a PPP solution. The Comptroller and Auditor General also noted that there are many different types of PPP and he specifically drew attention to the expertise of the National Development Finance Agency as crucial in that regard and I agree with his view. There are certain projects which are appropriate for the PPP model.

Regarding the relative allocation of risk and whether such arrangements represent value for money, I accept such projects are value for money in certain circumstances as the Comptroller and Auditor General recognised, for the many reasons I have set out in my earlier reply.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I know the Minister for Finance is eager to see the delivery of the NDP in full, in budget and on time. Does the Minister believe the €2.2 billion allocation for public private partnership projects for 2009 will be delivered in budget and on time? Does the Minister share the view of the Comptroller and Auditor General that there needs to be more transparency in this process, especially for the House which is ultimately responsible for the guardianship of public money?

Brian Lenihan Jnr (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I have no difficulty subject to the necessary caution that sensitive commercial information cannot always be disclosed in the House, which is one of the difficulties in ensuring full accountability in this area. I accept there is a difficulty here. However, the envisaged investments through PPPs next year are important. One of the advantages of the PPP arrangement is the rigorous assessment process which the State agency involved conducts in regard to the PPP. This often leads to considerable delays at the beginning of the PPP.

Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Are we on schedule to deliver €2.2 billion next year?

Brian Lenihan Jnr (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am reluctant to sign off in blood on an item I have not yet examined. However, I am not aware of any circumstances which would prevent it.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Minister for Finance said in response to the earlier question on PPPs and Dublin City Council and McNamara Construction's pulling out of several projects, that only one of those was the subject of a tight legal framework. I understood that at least two of those projects had been subject to contractual commitments——

Seán Ardagh (Dublin South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is too late to raise this matter now.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is important that the Minister for Finance clarify this matter.

Seán Ardagh (Dublin South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is not possible as we are out of time. We are moving onto question No. 81 and we will try to finish before 3.45 p.m.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Is the Minister saying——

Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Am I not entitled to ask a supplementary question?

Seán Ardagh (Dublin South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

No, it was not a priority question and the Deputy has had his say.

Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Can I even ask a brief supplementary question?

Seán Ardagh (Dublin South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

No, not even a brief supplementary question.

Brian Lenihan Jnr (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I would like to assist the Deputy, but I must observe the rules of the House.

Seán Ardagh (Dublin South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We are moving on to an interesting question.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I understood the Chair was not entitled to a personal opinion.

Seán Ardagh (Dublin South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

This Chairman is.