Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Question 51: To ask the Minister for Transport if he will ensure that the financial envelope for metro north is sufficient to allow the line to be kept underground through Ballymun and for an acceptable station design at DCU to ensure that the project does not negatively impact on local residents, local traffic movements and the local environment. [12973/07]

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Transport 21 includes budget provision for the implementation of metro north from the city centre to Swords via Dublin Airport, to be completed by the end of 2012. The Railway Procurement Agency completed a comprehensive and inclusive public consultation on route options for metro north last year and announced its selected route in October.

Work is under way by the RPA on the complex task of designing the detailed route and the stations that will be served. This includes engaging with stakeholders on the best design solution for Ballymun. A surface station can be provided which is safe, accessible and avoids severance. I also understand the RPA has met interested parties regarding the station design at DCU and that a programme to facilitate further consultation on their concerns has been arranged.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Will the Minister explain how he can propose a surface metro line through a large town such as Ballymun, which has been recently regenerated, without creating severance? When I asked the same question of the Minister at the Joint Committee on Transport he did not seem to be aware that a surface design would entail high protective walls on either side.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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It will not. The Deputy has made that up, as usual.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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I am a bit more in touch than the Minister with the details of what is proposed, having discussed the matter with the RPA on a number of occasions.

The Minister made a number of recent claims. He said the Red Cow roundabout coped well, but this issue is completely different. A new bridge was built at the Red Cow roundabout and grade separation took place, but in Ballymun the metro will be built on the surface with walls on either side. Two lanes of traffic will be lost and the main traffic artery will be reduced to one lane. That will be bad enough but with traffic feeding into Ballymun Road from east and west it simply cannot work.

The Minister also referred to the modelling work that had been done, but that work has not been agreed with the traffic department of Dublin City Council or the regeneration company, and much of it seems to be pie in the sky. What is the difference in cost between putting the Ballymun metro underground and putting it on the surface? It seems to boil down to cost, but the surface option is not acceptable to residents living in Glasnevin and Ballymun. We will not settle for a cheap metro solution when the Minister is prepared to spend millions of euro keeping the metro underground everywhere else. Does the Minister accept the strongly held view of the public in that regard, in view of the hugely detrimental effect it will have on regeneration in Ballymun, local traffic movement and the local environment?

A cheap option also seems to be proposed for DCU station in the form of an open underground station running within feet of people's gable walls. Is he prepared to ask the RPA to revisit that decision?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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All the Deputy's assertions are utterly wrong. No walls are to be built in Ballymun. Metro systems throughout the world run on a part-underground and part-overground basis. The Luas works exceptionally well in Dublin and there is absolutely no need for an underground line. The Deputy's suggestion that walls are to be built on the main street in Ballymun is utter rubbish.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The RPA has shown diagrams of protective walls. Is the Minister not aware of that?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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It has no basis in fact. The Deputy has highly politicised the situation in Ballymun. If I lived there I would much prefer an on-street solution to the solution the Deputy proposes.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Has the Minister seen the drawings?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is incorrect to say we are foisting cheap options on Ballymun while doing otherwise elsewhere. The metro can and should be built. We have agreed the route selection and that it should go through Ballymun. The only issue raised with me at the outset was the proposal for the line to run on stilts. That was unacceptable to people in Ballymun so it was reviewed and abandoned in favour of the streetscape design, of which I thought everybody was in favour.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Nobody was in favour of it.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy now wants it to go underground. The extra cost would be a minimum of €250 million, just for the Ballymun section, which is a very significant amount. The RPA has assured me that such a cost is unwarranted and that there is every possibility of reconfiguring traffic in Ballymun. There will be no difficulty in so doing and it will have little or no effect on the metro's journey times from Swords to the city. In any event, were the metro to run through an underground section, it would slow down substantially.

As the Deputy is aware, the matter is still under consideration. While I am aware of the views expressed, unfortunately, no rational arguments remain in this debate. The argument is being presented in terms of other locations receiving something better than Ballymun. It is most unfortunate that someone should present what will be a fantastic state-of-the-art facility in such terms. Effectively, metro west will run over ground for its entire length. I do not understand the Deputy's motivation in suggesting there is something different about the treatment of Ballymun as this is utterly incorrect.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Metro north will be a Luas.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Metro north will constitute a major investment. I have seen metro systems operate worldwide and while some run overground and some run underground, others run partially overground and partially underground. There is no prescriptive method for labelling one project as being different to another.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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With walls.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The fundamental difference between Luas and a metro is that capacity will be much greater on metro north. Moreover, speeds will be far higher on the metro and the metro will be able to deliver far greater numbers of people than the Luas. The RPA is engaged both at DCU and with the people of Ballymun on that basis. I wish to see a resolution of this issue as quickly as possible in order that the project may proceed.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The Minister is either badly briefed or is trying to mislead the House deliberately. Is he aware the RPA is and has been for some time showing diagrams of the on-surface design with high protective walls? Is he aware the RPA has cited a figure of between €150 million and €200 million as being the difference? Why did the RPA engage in highly elaborate public consultation with four design options if the decision had been made already? Was this simply a charade?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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At-grade running will not result in severance of the main street in Ballymun or in significantly longer or less reliable journey times. Moreover, at-grade running will not mean greater congestion——

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The Minister should answer the question instead of simply reading from a statement.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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——at the junction between Balbutcher Lane, Shangan Road and Ballymun Road.

According to the notes I have to hand from the RPA, the answer to all the Deputy's questions is "No". To all of the arguments——

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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I asked whether the Minister has seen the diagrams. Has he done so?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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——put forward by the Deputy, which are spurious——

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Does the Minister know what he is talking about?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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A number of issues are under discussion within Ballymun on which the RPA has given an inordinate amount of time to the Deputy and others in trying to find a resolution. However, the Deputy has a fixed position and has presented it in a manner that suggests that not putting the metro north underground at Ballymun constitutes foisting a lesser facility on it.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Exactly.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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That is utter nonsense.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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That is the case. Has the Minister seen the diagrams? Does he know what he is talking about?

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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We must proceed to Question No. 52.