Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Crime and the fear of crime is a matter of great concern to communities all over our State. There are victims of crime, unfortunately, all over our State. We should not see this as a rural versus urban issue. We do have a serious issue with rural crime. I represent an urban constituency, however, as do many people here, and I assure the Deputy that the threat of and fear of crime is as worrisome in west Dublin as in west Tipperary. It is wrong, therefore, to characterise this issue in the context of a rural versus urban divide that does not exist when it comes to crime. Sadly, crime levels are actually higher in urban areas than they are in rural areas.

Turning to what is being done, the Government is investing in An Garda Síochána. Garda numbers have now increased to 14,000 and that is the highest overall total for a long time. We have also extended the operation of armed support units, ASUs, across all six Garda regions and have increased the budget of An Garda Síochána to €1.7 billion. That is the highest Garda budget ever. We are also implementing the recommendations of the O'Toole Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland to ensure that we have a more modern and fit-for-purpose police service. That implementation is co-ordinated by my Department and is under way and on track.

Turning to the matter of legal aid, the cost of that programme is very high. I agree with the Deputy on that point. We have to find a correct balance in this area. On one hand, we need to protect the taxpayer from facing very high costs and having to pay very high legal fees for others while on the other hand, we also need to have a justice system that ensures that people have representation in court and get a fair trial. We have seen instances in other countries where there have been court cases and criminal cases which have been very much stacked against the accused. We must bear in mind that everyone in a democracy is innocent until proven guilty. I do not know if the Deputy has seen the film "If Beale Street Could Talk", but it gives an example of what happens in other countries where there is inequality in the courts and the accused is not given proper legal representation or is represented by a public defender, who may be somebody on a low salary or not of the same standard as the prosecution. In a democracy and in a free country, the right to a fair trial is really important and that is not something I would want us to give up. We could in particular see vulnerable people and communities and minority communities ending up getting an unfair outcome from courts if the system was stacked up against them. I know it is a complicated area but it is an area where we need to tread carefully. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty and everyone is entitled to fair representation in court.

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