Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I welcome the European Commissioner for Education, Culture, Youth and Sport, Mr. Tibor Navracsics. The joint committee has been involved in a series of engagements in considering the White Paper on the future of Europe and the issue more widely. The Commissioner's input is timely especially as it comes relatively soon after the Gothenburg social summit. Members of the committee will be interested in his plans to extend the very successful Erasmus programme.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official, either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. However, if they are directed by it to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person or an entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

I welcome the Commissioner and invite him to make his opening statement.

Dr. Tibor Navracsics:

I thank the Chairman and the honourable Members of the Oireachtas. I am very honoured to speak to the committee which I congratulate on its deep engagement on the future of Europe. I understand it has carried out extensive public consultation on this important topic and look forward to hearing some of its insights during our discussion.

Education and culture are high on the political agenda in the European Union. At the recent social summit in Gothenburg, Sweden, Europe’s political leaders held an exchange of views on education and culture. I am proud that the debate built on an ambitious vision set out by the European Commission. In our policy document, our communication on Strengthening European Identity through Education and Culture, we set out our ambition for a Europe capable of harnessing the full potential of education and culture, to build resilience, promote social fairness and active citizenship and strengthen European identity in all its diversity. We want to work towards a Europe where learning, studying and conducting research will not be blocked by borders, where skilled and independent citizens will find or create fulfilling jobs, contribute to growth and innovation and feel empowered to shape communities and where people will share a strong sense of European identity and feel connected to our common cultural heritage.

What does this mean in practice? The communication calls for a European education area enabling the mutual recognition of higher education and school-leaving diplomas and study periods abroad. It suggests we improve co-operation between universities and the mobility of students with the support of an EU student card. It proposes steps to help member states boost the levels of skills, including basic skills, language skills and digital and entrepreneurial skills, as well as transversal skills and competences, and to promote lifelong learning. All of this, whether it is mobility and recognition, skills development or support for teachers and educators, needs to be based on solid funding. Hence, the communication recognises that to reach these goals, the future Erasmus+ programme will need to be substantially bigger than the current one. It also reaffirms the European Union’s commitment to safeguarding our common values and cultural heritage with continued support for the cultural and creative sectors. We want to develop a strong European agenda for culture to help us to uphold European identity and diversity. All children and young people should have the opportunity to realise their full potential and positively contribute to society. However, the reality shows that the talents of millions of young people are lost each year. Poorer students are three times more likely to be low performers than their wealthier peers. We all need to do more to overcome these challenges and the European Union is willing to play its part. I am pleased to announce that I will be hosting the first European education summit in Brussels on 25 January 2018 to follow up on the ambitions we have set out. The summit will bring together Ministers, academics, stakeholders and civil society representatives in order to work towards a high-level political consensus on tackling inequality in and through education. We must join forces to address underachievement in basic skills, to make education systems more inclusive and ensure they will benefit from smart investment. We must develop a clear picture of what skills are needed for the decades to come.

I count on the active participation of Irish authorities and Ireland has plenty of experiences to share. In the past decade this country has undertaken unprecedented national efforts to modernise its education sector, despite going through a very difficult period. During the recent economic crisis and the subsequent structural adjustment it sheltered education from major and far-reaching fiscal consolidation measures. Ireland has also greatly improved in providing basic skills and combating early school leaving and inequalities, as well as in promoting participation in pre-school education. It is one of the leading countries in Europe in tertiary attainment and has put forward a set of fairly ambitious goals for the future. It is investing in education with a new impetus in terms of public spending in the sector and a very promising 2018 budget for education and training. It also intends to focus more on educational infrastructure and higher capital expenditure, in particular with a view to attracting talent from elsewhere in Europe and the rest of the world. However, a number of challenges remain. They include the inclusion of disadvantaged students, the affordability of and access to child care, the long-term financial sustainability of third level education and the ongoing reform of the further education and training sector. The European Commission stands ready to help Irish authorities in their efforts to make Ireland's education system one of the best in Europe.

In the field of youth the European Commission is preparing a review of the EU youth strategy, the framework for youth policy co-operation. The proposals we will outline before the summer will be based on young people's and youth stakeholders' input, as well as on the evaluation of the current strategy. One priority is already clear for me: we need to reach out to many more young people to make sure our youth will have opportunities to engage and be heard in the democratic process, no matter where they are or what their background is.

Another youth-related matter that has been high on our agenda this year is the European Solidarity Corps. Since its launch, more than 43,000 young people have registered, showing their enthusiasm for solidarity and a willingness to volunteer or work to support others. I expect the corps to get its own legal basis and budget next year following the agreement of the Council of Ministers and the European Parliament.

Throughout 2017 we celebrated the 30th anniversary of Erasmus, a unique programme which has given 9 million people, among them tens of thousands of Irish people, the opportunity to study, train, teach and volunteer abroad, providing them with the skills and outlook needed to thrive in life. With more than 900 events and a huge involvement in social media and the press, the campaign reached more than 90 million European citizens, well beyond those already benefiting from the programme. This year was also an opportunity to take stock and develop a common vision for the future of the programme. My priority is to reach out to many more people from a wider range of backgrounds. I also want to strengthen the mobility of school pupils, for example. As I said at the beginning, if the future Erasmus+ is going to support our political objectives effectively, it will need to be beefed up. The President of the European Commission, Mr. Jean-Claude Juncker, and the President of the European Parliament, Mr. Antonio Tajani, have called for a substantial budget increase to make sure the future programme will be nine times more ambitious. During the final EU-level event of the 30th anniversary campaign in Brussels the Erasmus+ generation declaration was presented. The declaration contains 30 recommendations from the community of those who have benefited from the programme on how to make Erasmus+ a bigger programme, with a bigger impact on the future of Europe.

In the area of sport we focus on promoting physical activity and grassroots sport. The third edition of the European Week of Sport which took place in September attracted 12 million participants. With its first edition having taken place only three years ago, I am pleased to see how much the idea has spread and how fast it has been adopted by member states and the sport family. This year, together with my fellow Commissioners Phil Hogan who is in charge of agriculture and Vytenis Andriukaitis who is responsible for health, I launched a new initiative to promote healthy lifestyles across policy areas such as sport, education, food marketing, innovation and research. Sport is very much about joy and physical well-being, but it also has a bigger role because it helps to build communities.

It is something I saw in Ireland first-hand when I met with leaders of the GAA in Croke Park and attended an All-Ireland hurling final just over two years ago. To highlight the role of sport in communities, I launched the #BeInclusive EU sport awards which recognises organisations using sport to increase social inclusion for disadvantaged groups. I was honoured to hand out the first awards at the end of November.

We have just launched the European year of cultural heritage. I want to place children and young people at the heart of this initiative. By encouraging them to discover and engage with Europe’s cultural heritage through a wide range of activities and programmes we can enable them to become guardians of our cultural heritage and to use it to build the Europe of tomorrow. That is why the educational value of cultural heritage will be emphasised throughout the year. The European year of cultural heritage is not a Brussels event, far from it. We want people to explore and connect with heritage close to where they are. That is why we will see a series of initiatives and events at European, national, regional and local levels. At national level, the year is managed by national co-ordinators appointed by all 28 member states and I am pleased to say Ireland is enthusiastically represented by the Heritage Council. I heard quite a bit about what is planned in Ireland throughout the year. This morning, I attended the Creative Ireland forum where I launched the European year of cultural heritage in this country. I trust that Ireland will make a success of the year.

Deep structural changes are affecting our societies and economies at a time when many people also cope with the breakdown of social connections and families. The policy fields I am responsible for, education, culture, youth and sport, have a crucial role in creating the resilience we need to overcome these challenges. They can empower people, enabling them to lead independent, fulfilling lives and build inclusive, fair societies. It is therefore heartening to see these policy areas at the top of Europe's political agenda. Let us work together to ensure they stay there.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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I welcome the Commissioner. I am sorry he is here when there is legislation going through the House and various committees are sitting, which means attendance is a bit low.

I congratulate the Commissioner on the 30 years of the Erasmus programme. It has been a wonderful programme. The Commissioner pointed out that in Ireland our students have benefited well from it. It is a tremendous programme but, as it moves forward, I would like to see it expand into the areas of apprenticeship in addition to academic study. We have to offer those seeking technical skills the opportunity to study abroad and learn the language of the country they are working in. I would like to see more work done on that. Coming from a teaching background, one of the things I feel is vitally important is that a teacher of language should actually train for a period in the country of the language they hope to teach. For example, one should train for a year in France if one wants to teach French or in Germany if one wants to teach German. I would like to see an Erasmus programme that extends to those who deliver academic programmes whether at primary, second or third level. I would like to see an opportunity for that. Perhaps a teacher who goes to France for a year to work and teach French in France could be replaced by a French teacher coming to Ireland to work and teach English in an Irish school. We need to look at that. One of the concerns we have as a result of Brexit is that there are almost 1.8 million people in the northern part of the country who have an entitlement to carry an Irish passport and as such are entitled to full European citizenship. In the event of Brexit being completed, access to Erasmus for those people will become an extremely important issue. While they will technically be in a third country, they are separated from their country of choice by geography. We must maintain access to Erasmus programmes for Irish passport carriers living and working or studying in the North of Ireland because by right they are Irish citizens.

Dr. Navracsics has responsibility for the area of education. I have become increasingly concerned in recent years by the level of focus on statistics. Statistics are useful for establishing whether a programme has been successful or unsuccessful. I worked in further education and I came through second-chance education, having returned to college in my late 30s. One of the things that concerns me is that when I returned to college in my 30s, the focus was on getting me in and getting me settled. Nobody ever questioned whether I would take an examination or not. The focus was on getting adults back engaging in the system. I became a teacher when I qualified and over the 25 years I was teaching the focus shifted to verifiable statistical information, for example, how many students started the course, how many modules they took and how many modules they passed. The success or failure of the programme was based on statistics. Whether we like it or not, for some people who return to education surviving the year in the system is sufficient. We must go back and look at the social side of education as well as the statistical side. I would like the Commissioner to try to put some money or grant aid aside to get away from the statistics and look at community based education or education for the sake of learning rather than education for the sake of examination qualifications.

The Commissioner mentioned the area of sport in his presentation. Sport and sporting activity is extremely important. There was a study carried out by some students from Kinsale Community School on the availability of sporting facilities in the country which showed the east-west divide in Ireland is stark. A school in the eastern half of the country is likely to have its own gymnasium and other sporting facilities. However, the further west one goes, the likelihood of finding these facilities in abundance is limited unless the school is a very new school or the parents have funded a gymnasium. Let us face it, gymnasiums are not high on the list for parents when it comes to education. They would rather put the money into other parts of education. This might sound like the pot calling the kettle black because I am a rather large man but one of the problems we have in Europe is the growing rates of obesity. Unless we get our children involved in sporting activities at a very young age the problem will be exacerbated over time. Perhaps through the good offices of the Commissioner, we could look at how we could assist countries that have limited access to sporting facilities to start developing them within their regions.

I am delighted to see that culture has not been left out of the event and that the Commissioner's focus is not on the big ticket events but on small towns and villages where everybody can get involved. We had a tremendous year in 2016 where every town, village and townland in the country became involved in the remembrance of the revolution. We are now coming into 2018 which is the centenary of women getting the vote. That will be a major cultural issue for Ireland and something to be celebrated. One hopes it will be celebrated in every village and townland in the country. Any assistance the Commissioner can give in that area would be very welcome.

I thank the Commissioner for taking the time to come here. It is always good to get Commissioners over from Europe to know they are alive and well.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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Before we proceed to our next speaker I welcome Deputy Fiona O'Loughlin, Chair of the Joint Committee on Education and Skills, to the meeting today. The next speaker is Deputy Cullinane.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the European Commissioner and wish him well for his stay and his travels.

First, will the European Commissioner explain how, in his area of responsibility, he will be able to protect citizens who live in the North in a post-Brexit scenario where the North will be taken out of the European Union against the wishes of the people who live there? If there is Brexit and the North is outside the European Union, there will be hundreds of thousands of Irish citizens who hold Irish passports and, by virtue of that, are European citizens but who, regrettably, will live outside the territory of the European Union. Their rights must be vindicated. In his area of competence, with education being the main area, how will Mr. Navracsics ensure that their rights will be respected fully and that there will be no loss of rights for those people?

In his speech the European Commissioner spoke about wanting to develop a strong European agenda for culture to help us uphold European identity and diversity. That is very important, and protecting diversity and identity becomes even more important in the context of Brexit and a rise of the far right in some parts of Europe. The Brexit talks are moving into the second phase and there will now be substantial talks on a potential free trade agreement between Britain and the European Union. Is it possible to have a free trade agreement between Britain and the European Union that would allow for the free movement of goods and services but would curtail the movement of people? If one wishes to have free movement of goods and services there must be free movement of people. I expect that will be a thorny issue in the negotiations, given that it was a big issue in the referendum in Britain. It was hyped up by some far right politicians in Britain but it was an issue. If one wishes to protect the rights of citizens and people's identity as well as ensuring diversity, the free movement of people is important, especially in countries with which we have free trade agreements which resemble the customs union and Single Market, if that is what emerges.

I wish to contest one part of the European Commissioner's statement. He said that during the most recent economic crisis education was sheltered from major and far-reaching fiscal consolidation measures in this State. That is not quite true. I will forward to him information on the difference between what was invested in education before the crash and what was invested in it after the crash. He will see the substantial difference. He might also be aware that third level fees were increased substantially on two occasions due to the economic crash. Unfortunately, education was not protected as much as the European Commissioner might have been informed it was. I make that point to provide information and clarity.

We are discussing the future of Europe. While education is the remit of the European Commissioner I wish to refer to some aspects of the broader issues of reform of the European Union. There has been a clash at the heart of the European project for many years, probably since its inception, between those who want what could be argued to be a more federal Europe or united states of Europe and those who want a more democratic and social Europe. I am on the side of those who want a more democratic and social Europe. Mr. Martin Schulz recently said he wants greater and deeper integration, a more federal Europe. He is entitled to his opinion. All opinions can be sincerely held and people are entitled to state their positions, but can Mr. Navracsics share his personal view on that debate and clash? Does he agree that many Europeans are worried and concerned about a European federal super state? Would he agree that this was, in part, one of the drivers of Brexit and that if we wish to ensure the integrity of the European project we must be careful to be in tune at all times with what the people want, not what politicians who might operate in silos or bubbles in Europe or people in the Commission might see as being in the best interests of European citizens? We must listen to people's voices on what they want. What is the European Commissioner's view on that?

With regard to the European Commissioner's area of education, if I am arguing for a more social Europe it means I am seeking a stronger focus on citizens' rights and investment in public services, which would include the rights of citizens in education. In what areas would Mr. Navracsics seek improvement? He spoke about an increase in his overall budget for education, which would be welcome. However, in terms of the rights of citizens across Europe and in the context of reforming Europe, and these hearings are about reforming Europe and the future of Europe, what would be his vision for education and its place within a reformed European Union project, whatever the nature of that reform?

Fiona O'Loughlin (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the European Commissioner and the officials. We had an opportunity to meet briefly earlier. Mr. Navracsics mentioned the European Week of Sport. I attended the signing of the first European Week of Sport with the partners on behalf of Special Olympics Europe Eurasia. I am still a volunteer with that organisation and the organisation was delighted to participate in the first European Week of Sport and on subsequent occasions. I offer my congratulations on that. It is always good to see horizons being pushed out on so many different levels.

I wish to make some comments in the context of my role as chairman of the committee on education and skills. Our thinking is very much in line with the European Commissioner's in terms of the work programme and some of the reports we have produced. The Education and Training Monitor from the European Commission has been very helpful in focusing our minds. One of the areas mentioned, and it was mentioned in the European Commissioner's opening address, is the value of alternative pathways and vocational routes. Our committee held a hearing on apprenticeships earlier this year and we sent our findings to the Minister. We hope they will be taken on board. One of the main reasons for having that meeting and developing the report is that we feel there is a view that attendance at university is almost obligatory to succeed and to have a successful career. Apprenticeships are often seen as the poor relation to university courses. We must do what we can to develop a parity of esteem in that regard. Only two weeks ago our committee dealt with the legislation to provide for technological universities in Ireland, to ensure our institutes of technology would have parity of esteem and be able to attract funding and the students they require. That is very important. In fact, there was a non-partisan approach by all members of the committee to progress that Bill. The recognition of its importance meant there was a willingness to consider alternative views and to progress the legislation as quickly as possible.

The committee also met the Irish team that competed in WorldSkills Abu Dhabi 2017. Its members won seven medallions for excellence. I and the committee members were very impressed by the calibre of the Irish delegation and its exceptional achievements on the world stage. However, there is no national stage or competition in Ireland.

That is somewhat lacking. The Commissioner may be familiar with the young scientist and technology exhibition held in Ireland every January which has been an incredible success. It has opened up science to students. I have suggested a similar event be run to showcase the importance of apprenticeships and skills training as an alternative to university courses. I am interested in hearing his views on that matter. In his opening contribution he referred to students developing resilience, which is hugely important. We made a report to the Minister with 20 recommendations related to positive mental health in education at primary, second and third level and to non-formal and informal education. It is of crucial importance to all of us.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I am sorry., but I have to step out to deal with a situation. The Vice Chairman will take over in my absence.

Fiona O'Loughlin (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy David Cullinane mentioned the impact of Brexit. The Commissioner plans to host a European education summit, which is welcome, to improve co-operation in providing for the mobility of students. The implications of Brexit are a major concern for us. Some 12,000 Irish students are studying in Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Last week's news was positive in having a softer Brexit than anticipated, but it is still a major concern. Our universities are under a great deal of pressure and the Central Applications Office process would have to change completely if we had to absorb another 12,000 students, apart from the need from a European perspective to give students, lecturers and so on the mobility to study or work abroad.

The basic skills of Irish students in maths and science are high according to the Education and Training Monitor and relatively unaffected by socioeconomic background, which is positive, but there is a risk that other subjects such as the humanities may suffer as a result of the emphasis placed on maths and science. That debate has started strongly in the past 12 months and I am interested in hearing the Commissioner's views on it.

Ireland compares well in meeting education targets for early school leaving rates. However, there are still many inequalities in participation and access. That is a key problem for us at every level. It has been suggested limiting the number of students who participate in tertiary education is a failing and needs to be addressed. Does the Commissioner agree that this causes a points race and that there is an an over-emphasis on academic achievement? There is a risk that other parts of a student's development such as resilience are being ignored. Sometimes students accept courses to which they may not be entirely suited, but they are more desirable to do because they require higher points. That can contribute to a higher dropout rate.

I thank the Commissioner. It is a pleasure to meet and engage with him.

Terry Leyden (Fianna Fail)
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I share in the Chairman's welcome to the Commissioner. I am impressed by his worthwhile publication to mark 30 years of the Erasmus programme. My daughter, Orla, studied in Urbino in Italy where she met her husband. I am now a proud grandfather of Donata Maria Leyden Roberto. Erasmus is one of the best ever European programmes, aside from agricultural policy. Is it correct that in the Brexit discussions the United Kingdom is keen to continue its participation in the ERASMUS programme? I would be disappointed if it left the programme because it has been a success for the country.

Dr. Tibor Navracsics:

I thank members for their questions. I will deal with similar questions in thematic groups.

I will address first the role of skills in education, apprenticeship programmes and the mobility of apprentices because clearly that is one of the lines we would like to follow in the future. It is obvious from the statistical data that we have to do more to make the education systems more skills oriented and transform them from being the traditionally one-sided knowledge oriented system into a more practical and skills oriented system, while availing of all of the opportunities and other forms of education to reach that goal. That is why we encourage member states to enrich their forms of education in lifelong learning and provide for greater investment in informal and non-formal education and use all of these opportunities to promote social inclusion. In our experience education is one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful, policy tools for social inclusion. That is why we have chosen the accessibility of education systems as a main topic for this year's Education and Training Monitor. There is a direct correlation between life opportunities and access to education systems. That means, from the point of view of the cohesion of future societies, accessibility of education systems can be an important societal factor. That is why we support projects to make cross-border apprenticeship and apprenticeship mobility programmes more common.

The European Solidarity Corps, ESC, was launched a year ago. Volunteering is a well known aspect of the corps. We have 43,000 applicants for it, most of whom are interested in volunteering schemes which are a successor to the European voluntary service programme. However, at the same time, we are working on the apprenticeship and occupation-led elements of the ESC which will offer new opportunities for cross-border apprenticeship programmes. It is a work in progress, but I hope that in the near future we can launch the first apprenticeship programmes and projects under the framework of the ESC. However, there are existing opportunities for cross-border apprenticeship activities within the Erasmus programme. There is an opportunity to establish apprenticeship consortia among companies through public private partnerships comprising public authorities and private companies.

They, too, can have cross-border apprenticeship programmes. International companies have a huge advantage in this area in that they can organise cross-border apprenticeship programmes within the framework of a company. We would like to develop the apprenticeship programmes of Erasmus+ in the future. Thus far, we have run programmes with 600,000 apprentices, which is quite large number, but we are still in the initial phase of cross-border activities in apprenticeship programmes. I agree that if we want to harness the potential of competitiveness of European economies we must put more emphasis on cross-border apprenticeship programmes because they equip people with not only relevant technical skills but language skills, which is important from the point of view of the Single Market.

On Brexit, there is a lot of uncertainty about the post-Brexit environment but as far as I know the education, research and innovation family in the United Kingdom is committed to retaining these programmes. It depends on the official position of the UK delegation and the EU delegation in the negotiations. I will do everything to protect the interests of young people with Irish passports or citizenship either side of the Border who wish to be participate in Erasmus+ programmes. I cannot imagine any scenario which would exclude Irish citizens from Erasmus+ irrespective of where they live. This programme is linked to citizenship, not location. I would like to protect all the achievements of the Erasmus programmes but, again, this is dependent on the position taken by the delegations. I agree that we must emphasis the social profile of education. The dominant position is to look at education performance exclusively through data and statistics, including through the Programme for International Student Assessment, PISA, and the Education and Training Monitor. We tried to soften the statistical side of measuring education and performance through the Education and Training Monitor and making accessibility a factor. The accessibility of our education system cannot be expressed by figures alone. However, there is another danger because statistical based data can indicate a very technocratic profile of education. If one travels too far from the soft side, the result can be a subjective evaluation of the educational systems, which is very difficult even at European level because, while we are above national front-lines, we all have our national affiliations. For example, I am Hungarian and I am more biased to central European countries. I am more sensitive to their problems and Ireland would be more sensitive to the Irish problem, Brexit and so on. We have to find a good compromise between these two points of the evaluation and we are working on that.

Again, there is a strong correlation between the quality and level of education and the level of competitiveness of the future societies. The higher the quality and level of education today the higher will be our level of competitiveness tomorrow. There is general consensus among Education Ministers on the Education Council that education is the most important issue in the world. It is good that we have that strong consensus and we are all friends but equally important is that we convince Finance Ministers and Prime Ministers that education is the most important issue. This is the most important thing we can do today for tomorrow. If we want to tackle future unemployment and the issues of future competitiveness, social cohesion, solidarity and so on we must invest more in education and strive to raise the level of tertiary education and early school-leaving. We have to do our best to strengthen the social profile of the education institutions because that is the best way to tackle future challenges of these societies. I believe Ireland is on the right path. I accept that there are difficulties and problems but I know from my comprehensive knowledge of education policy in Europe that there is no member state without problems in education. Education is probably the biggest issue in every EU member state but in the rankings of the education systems Ireland performs very well. It is important to bear that in mind. I appreciate Ireland's efforts and its results in this area.

On sport, we have to do more in the area of grassroots sports. It is for this reason I opened the sports chapters of Erasmus+ exclusively to grassroots sports. I believe grassroots sports has a social function. It is not only about leisure time activities and wellbeing, it is about community, friendship and human relations. I would like to support and fund grassroots sports activities further in the future because the health and the core of the wellbeing of contemporary societies are at local level. If our local communities are powerful and strong, based on solidarity, we will have no problems at regional or national levels, or at European level. I would like to increase funding to grassroots sports activities to help them in social inclusion and to help them build sport facilities and make them more accessible. We can do more in rural development policy and regional development policy to help local communities to build their sports facilities to serve the interests of the local communities.

On the European Year of Cultural Heritage, this is not a Brussels exercise. We will hold few flagship events in Brussels but those events will serve local communities.

For instance, we are going to have a conference of the European capitals of culture and a workshop of the owners of the European heritage label. The topic of those events will be the ways in which we can best serve the interests of local communities. The only sustainable European scenario is a bottom-up European scenario. There is no top-down scenario which will be successful. European institutions simply cannot force their image or their plans on local communities. Just the opposite; we must invent our Europe at local level. We have to build up the European community from below. We have to base our future European community on the diversity of the local communities, and the European Year of Culture and Heritage is just the first step in this journey and in this enterprise.

John Dolan (Independent)
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I should say by way of introduction, that as a member of the Seanad, I am not a member of any political party. I was elected as an independent Senator on the issue of disability inclusion, and it is on that issue that I wish to focus. We have a saying in Irish, and I am sure the Commissioner will tell me the equivalent saying in Hungarian; "Tosach maith, leath na hoibre." A good start is half the work. Education is a cornerstone, and the Commissioner has recognised that in what he has said.

I apologise for not being here at the start of this meeting. I was at a meeting of the Committee for Transport, Tourism and Sport which was looking at accessible transport for people with disabilities. I met with the cabinet of the Commissioner for Transport last week, so there is a European angle to these issues as well. Transport can facilitate participation in education, as well as in cultural activities, sport and other activities.

My apologies for not being here, but I have read the Commission's opening statement. The committee will let me be tetchy or touchy by saying I do not see the word "disability" used once in it. Mr. Navracsics spoke about disadvantaged students. The witnesses might respond that the inclusion of people with disabilities is implied, that the EU has ratified the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, which is certainly a very significant thing, and that there is a European Union disability strategy. I would still make the point that mentioning people with disabilities is critical. The President of the European Parliament, Mr. Antonio Tajani, along with the president of the European Disability Forum, Mr. Yannis Vardakastanis, opened a European Parliament of Persons with Disabilities in the European Parliament last Wednesday, as Mr. Navracsics will be aware. Some 750 people with disabilities from right across the Union were present. I was honoured to lead an Irish delegation of 11 people.

Mr. Navracsics' brief includes education and culture. In a word, my big issue is changing culture. One example is the tendency to presume that things are okay for disabled people, or, when a disability issue is raised, for people to say that they have never thought about it. In this domain it is important to very specifically reference the 80 million Europeans with disabilities, a number which is heading towards 100 million. They are not all in the first flush of life. Within that group, a minority are children and young people going to school. We want them to take part in Erasmus Plus. We want them to be jetting around Europe, and, along with their able-bodied peers, to come home talking about the time they had and the possibilities before them.

Mr. Navracsics's statement says that he is pleased to announce that he will be hosting the first European Education Summit in Brussels. I hope that that becomes an opportunity to underline this issue. The statement talks about working towards a high-level political consensus on tackling inequality through education. People with disabilities need access to education. Everybody does, but it is life and death to them.

Mr. Navracsics has graciously said that Ireland has plenty of experience to share, and it is a fair point. Over the past decade this country has undertaken unprecedented national efforts to modernise its education sector, despite the difficulties we have had. We have done more than modernise it. We actually did away with the notion that children with disabilities would be educated in separate special schools. That is not just modernising, it is changing culture and changing thinking. It is now accepted that all children will go to regular local schools with their brothers and sisters, and we will bring whatever supports are needed in around them. Of course there are there issues with getting that right and moving it on, and we need to deal with those. Ireland does have a story to tell about how it has made these changes. The world has not collapsed in Ireland as a result.

We now come to a different challenge, one which needs to be thought about sooner rather than later. Following education is the issue of employment. That needs to be thought about when education is being changed. The White Paper on the Future of Europe sets out five options. In this country, several civil society organisations and a coalition including Social Justice Ireland would say that it needs a sixth one, a sustainable Europe for its citizens, in order to copper-fasten sustainability and social involvement.

I am looking for thoughtfulness and reassurances. I suppose I am playing on the word "culture". There is a cultural shift needed. I routinely travel from east to west and from north to south and I see that there are many Europes in Europe. I think the witnesses understand what I mean. There are many challenges. Ireland is not in the worst position by far. However, as a disabled person, I do not have an Irish perspective as opposed to a Hungarian one or Romanian one. I have a sense of the needs of all disabled people, and that is I suggest is important to bring into this.

Seán Haughey (Dublin Bay North, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Commissioner for his presence here this afternoon, and for outlining his vision of education from a European perspective. I observed Mr. Navracsics's presence in the plenary session a short time ago, when he listened to some of the debate regarding the European Council meeting taking place tomorrow and on Friday. I think he got a flavour of the Irish concerns around Brexit. In a previous life I was Minister of State with responsibility for Lifelong Learning, Youth Work and School Transport at the then Department of Education and Science. It was a very rewarding position. I have attended meetings of the Council of Ministers, the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization, UNESCO, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, OECD, and so forth. The reason the position was very rewarding is that I got to meet individuals who had prospered from participation in further education and training or lifelong learning. I saw how the individual flourished, and how they then made a contribution to their family, their community, their society and indeed to the economy as a whole.

Senator Dolan mentioned the issue of disability. I wish to mention the issue of adult literacy, bringing our discussion right back to basics. I am of the view that many people are still excluded from fully participating in society because of inadequate literacy skills, including computer literacy. These people are becoming more and more excluded from playing a full role in our society and participating in the digital economy. I assume this is a priority for the European Commission, but I must ask Mr. Navracsics how are we doing across the EU with regard to adult literacy. I believe many people are feeling more and more socially excluded because of their lack of basic skills. Bringing our concern right back to basics, I would like to think that this has to be a priority as well. I hope that the European Union is improving as a whole in that regard.

I thank Deputy Haughey. Before I call on Commissioner Navracsics, I wish to thank Senator Leyden for his valuable help. I now ask the Commissioner to give his overview and concluding remarks please.

Dr. Tibor Navracsics:

I agree with the committee on the role of people and our responsibility in education policy to those who have special needs or disabilities. I took part in several workshops and conferences in the European Parliament talking about opportunities for people with disabilities in ERASMUS. It is a difficult issue because they need something special and ERASMUS Plus is a big one-fit-for-all project. However, we have almost 600 participants with special needs and disabilities from Ireland in ERASMUS. It is not a big number but it is a good start.

We have to make the whole system more sensitive to individual needs. One of the avenues of thinking about the future of ERASMUS is making it more sensitive in that direction by combining it with travel opportunities, creating more opportunities for accessibility and to open the traditional modes of mobility to people with disability. However, that is in the future unfortunately. The Irish cultural shift has been mentioned, but there are many member states where this shift has not been made. In Hungary, there are serious government efforts to introduce integrated schools and make them universal. However, the general pattern is still specialised schools in towns, smaller settlements and villages because of tradition and bad responses. It is difficult to understand. The Spanish model is one of the most successful, with really integrated schools. I do not know the committee's opinion on that.

John Dolan (Independent)
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I am more familiar with the very strong system in Portugal which has changed its laws and closed down specialised schools.

Dr. Tibor Navracsics:

I see, it must be similar to the Spanish model of integrated schools. There is a Spanish NGO for blind people called the Organización Nacional de Ciegos de Españoles, ONCE. It has a very solid economic foundation because it is responsible for lottery games. That is a good solution, but it is a unique position.

John Dolan (Independent)
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Yes it is.

Dr. Tibor Navracsics:

It does a lot for the emancipation of people with disabilities. I am absolutely committed to this cause and helping in these activities.

Adult literacy is one of my favourite subjects. I usually raise it when we talk about digital skills, which is one of the eternal topics of discussion about future skills and opportunities. However, while we emphasise the importance of digital skills, we must not forget traditional literacy skills. One fifth of European citizens have serious problems with reading and one quarter with numeracy. We are progressing very fast to the digital world, but we are neglecting the fundamentals of those contemporary skills. What we can do is keep an eye on these traditional skills and raise these issues regularly because it is not only a problem of competitiveness but one of social inclusion. We urge the member states to take care of those skills as well and not to neglect the traditional aspects of education.

Lifelong learning can of course help in tackling these problems. However, we have to reform the structures of our member states for lifelong learning as well. It is too institutionally orientated and sometimes too rigid. Unfortunately, lifelong learning is not very attractive for adults seeking reintegration into education. We have to do much more in the future in that respect. I thank the committee.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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On behalf of the members, I thank the Commissioner very much for his time and engagement. It has been very beneficial as part of the programme that we are trying to engage in, including Brexit, the future of Europe and its evolution. We thank the Commissioner for his excellent work.

I wish everyone a very happy and holy Christmas and every good luck and happiness in 2018.