David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the European Commissioner and wish him well for his stay and his travels.

First, will the European Commissioner explain how, in his area of responsibility, he will be able to protect citizens who live in the North in a post-Brexit scenario where the North will be taken out of the European Union against the wishes of the people who live there? If there is Brexit and the North is outside the European Union, there will be hundreds of thousands of Irish citizens who hold Irish passports and, by virtue of that, are European citizens but who, regrettably, will live outside the territory of the European Union. Their rights must be vindicated. In his area of competence, with education being the main area, how will Mr. Navracsics ensure that their rights will be respected fully and that there will be no loss of rights for those people?

In his speech the European Commissioner spoke about wanting to develop a strong European agenda for culture to help us uphold European identity and diversity. That is very important, and protecting diversity and identity becomes even more important in the context of Brexit and a rise of the far right in some parts of Europe. The Brexit talks are moving into the second phase and there will now be substantial talks on a potential free trade agreement between Britain and the European Union. Is it possible to have a free trade agreement between Britain and the European Union that would allow for the free movement of goods and services but would curtail the movement of people? If one wishes to have free movement of goods and services there must be free movement of people. I expect that will be a thorny issue in the negotiations, given that it was a big issue in the referendum in Britain. It was hyped up by some far right politicians in Britain but it was an issue. If one wishes to protect the rights of citizens and people's identity as well as ensuring diversity, the free movement of people is important, especially in countries with which we have free trade agreements which resemble the customs union and Single Market, if that is what emerges.

I wish to contest one part of the European Commissioner's statement. He said that during the most recent economic crisis education was sheltered from major and far-reaching fiscal consolidation measures in this State. That is not quite true. I will forward to him information on the difference between what was invested in education before the crash and what was invested in it after the crash. He will see the substantial difference. He might also be aware that third level fees were increased substantially on two occasions due to the economic crash. Unfortunately, education was not protected as much as the European Commissioner might have been informed it was. I make that point to provide information and clarity.

We are discussing the future of Europe. While education is the remit of the European Commissioner I wish to refer to some aspects of the broader issues of reform of the European Union. There has been a clash at the heart of the European project for many years, probably since its inception, between those who want what could be argued to be a more federal Europe or united states of Europe and those who want a more democratic and social Europe. I am on the side of those who want a more democratic and social Europe. Mr. Martin Schulz recently said he wants greater and deeper integration, a more federal Europe. He is entitled to his opinion. All opinions can be sincerely held and people are entitled to state their positions, but can Mr. Navracsics share his personal view on that debate and clash? Does he agree that many Europeans are worried and concerned about a European federal super state? Would he agree that this was, in part, one of the drivers of Brexit and that if we wish to ensure the integrity of the European project we must be careful to be in tune at all times with what the people want, not what politicians who might operate in silos or bubbles in Europe or people in the Commission might see as being in the best interests of European citizens? We must listen to people's voices on what they want. What is the European Commissioner's view on that?

With regard to the European Commissioner's area of education, if I am arguing for a more social Europe it means I am seeking a stronger focus on citizens' rights and investment in public services, which would include the rights of citizens in education. In what areas would Mr. Navracsics seek improvement? He spoke about an increase in his overall budget for education, which would be welcome. However, in terms of the rights of citizens across Europe and in the context of reforming Europe, and these hearings are about reforming Europe and the future of Europe, what would be his vision for education and its place within a reformed European Union project, whatever the nature of that reform?