Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I remind members and those in the Visitors Gallery to ensure their mobile phones are switched off completely for the duration of the meeting because they cause interference with the recording equipment in committee rooms even in silent mode.

The main item on our agenda is the work of the Passport Office. I am delighted that we are joined by Mr. Joseph Nugent, director of passport services at the Passport Office, and his colleagues, Ms Fiona Penollar and Ms Siobhan Watters. We are fast approaching spring and people are beginning to think about their summer holidays. Those who intend to travel abroad obviously require passports and members will no doubt have experience of being approached by constituents at the last minute before their planned departure to seek assistance with problems they have encountered with their passport applications. As the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade discussed the Estimates for the Passport Office at last week's meeting of the Select Committee on Foreign Affairs, it is a subject with which we are familiar. We are aware of the pressure which the office faces during the summer period, when it has to process thousands of passports per week. We appeal to people to consider renewing their passports during January and February, which is a quiet time of the year. I commend the office on its new arrangement whereby appointments can be made to deal with non-emergency passport applications. That system is working very well for most people and we are not encountering as many problems as we did in the past. I compliment the staff of the office for the work they do.

The committee visited Balbriggan two years ago to see at first hand how the new passports are processed. A passport is a valuable document and it is complicated to produce. The passport has been improved with new painted pictures as a security measure. I am delighted that the passports include a picture of the world famous Cliffs of Moher.

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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Did the Chairman play a role in ensuring that happened?

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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It is good that our passports are becoming more secure so that we can catch up with fraudsters.

Mr. Joseph Nugent:

I thank the Chairman and members of the committee for the opportunity to discuss passport processing in Ireland. I am joined by my colleagues Fiona Penollar, who heads the Molesworth Street office, and Siobhan Watters, who also works in the Molesworth Street office.

The environment in which Irish passports issue has changed enormously over the past decade. In 1995 the passport service issued approximately 250,000 passports. This number doubled over the next five years to just over 500,000 and by a further 20% to 600,000 in 2010. In 2013, over 631,000 passports issued to Irish citizens around the world. The same period has witnessed major developments in the legislative landscape. The Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 2004 changed the nature of citizenship rights, while the Passport Act 2008 is the first primary legislation governing the issuance of Irish passports.

The period has also seen the proliferation in the use of passports over and above the travel document arena. The Irish passport has taken the position as the trusted national identity document and is used in all aspects of life, from school registration to matters of probate, and from access to bars to supporting applications to open bank accounts. As a result the passport service has had to balance measures to protect against identity theft and child abduction on one hand, with easy to use application procedures on the other.

The application processes have therefore been designed to protect our customers. At the same time the passport service has met the fiscal challenges of the period. Last year, in comparison to 2009, the passport service issued 60,000 more passports with over 10% fewer staff and a 90% lower overtime bill. I would like to publicly acknowledge today that this has been achieved by the dedication of my colleagues to deliver a first class service to Irish citizens.

I am also pleased to state that the international reputation of the Irish passport and issuance processes remains high. Ireland was recently ranked joint sixth of countries whose citizens are affected the least by visa restrictions. We probably all remember the long queues experienced by citizens at certain embassies in Dublin when visas were required. Visa-free travel is something we can never take for granted and something we must seek to protect for the sake of all Irish citizens.

Last year, the passport service was in the position to assist over 631,000 citizens in obtaining an Irish passport. As a result, the passport service is one of the biggest providers of public services across the Civil Service, and is certainly the largest direct contact point between the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and Irish citizens, most particularly the primary interaction between the State and Irish citizens resident off the island. More passports have issued in the last two years than at any other time in the history of the State.

The passport service is a demand-driven organisation with major seasonal variations. Almost 50% of all passport applications are received in the four months April to July. We seek to meet this seasonal demand through the recruitment of additional temporary staff, most taken from the live register. This year 160 temporary clerical officers will be engaged, with the first commencing work in a couple of weeks' time. Notwithstanding the best efforts to plan in advance for seasonal pressures, spikes in demand can still occur. Last year, May and July saw such spikes with approximately 10,000 additional applications received in each month over previous years. Inevitably this can result in some short delays in passport turnaround. As a result, we continue to advise that citizens apply well in advance of travel.

Almost 90% of all passport applications within the State are now made through the Passport Express service. This service is available at over 1,000 post offices around the country. From the start of July last year, it was decided that passport applications submitted through the ordinary post channel would no longer be accepted, with customers referred to the Passport Express service. This decision was made reflecting that over 90% of passport applications submitted through the ordinary post channel were either inaccurate or incomplete on arrival. In comparison, only 10% of Passport Express applications posed similar difficulties. Regarding applications from citizens resident overseas, approximately 40,000 passports are issued by the Irish Passport Office in London to citizens resident in the UK, with a further 40,000 passports issued by all other overseas missions. Over the past five years the highest issuing Irish missions have been New York, Canberra, San Francisco, Sydney and Pretoria. Ottawa is sixth on that list.

Almost 250,000 passports issued to minors last year. The changes in citizenship law resultant from the enactment of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 2004 have made the processing of these applications much more complicated in many cases. Furthermore, the legal obligations on the passport service to recognise the rights of all guardians is not often appreciated or understood by citizens. Last year we received on average two new parental objections to the issuance of a passport to a child per week. We are currently managing almost 2,500 open cases of parental objection.

The annualised cost of an Irish passport for an adult is €8. This fee has remained unchanged since 2009. The fee compares with approximately €8.60 in the UK, €8.15 in the USA, €8.55 in New Zealand, €11.50 in Canada, €8.80 in France and €8 in Germany. In June 2013 the Passport Office in Molesworth Street moved to a service whereby customers book, via a simple web based system, guaranteed time slots before travelling to the office. The Chairman mentioned this change. The public have responded very well to this new arrangement. Customers are now in and out having lodged their application in approximately ten minutes. The change has removed the necessity to queue for many hours, of unknown duration, and early in the morning outside, often in inclement weather. The introduction of this service has allowed the office to extended the public opening hours of the office from 9.30 a.m. to 4.30 p.m. to 9.00 a.m. to 5 p.m.

Priority in the system is given to those with urgent travel needs, travelling in three to ten days, with the majority of appointments available to those who fit into this category. Over 200 people per day availed of this service through the height of the summer in 2013. It is intended the service will operate in the Cork office later this year. The passport service continues to provide the service of turning around applications on the same day in cases where a passport is required for travel necessitated by an emergency such as the death or illness of a family member. However, at his appearance before the committee last week the Tánaiste invited members to consider and propose options whereby this service could extend to others who have found that their passport has expired and they must travel at very short notice.

We are committed to identifying a suitable option in this regard, but I would not like to underestimate the challenges to deliver on this commitment. On a number of days in summer 2012, over 600 people visited the Molesworth Street office looking for passports to travel at very short notice. Changes resultant from the introduction of the appointment service have already allowed 200 people per day to avail of this express arrangement. However, I am very conscious that there remains a gap in service provision and some people do find themselves in difficulty, needing a passport within hours. Extending the service must recognise the necessity to protect against identity theft and child abduction, including abduction by a parent, and must also maintain the integrity of the issuance process. It will be necessary to recognise the resource implications of any new proposals. Additionally, it is vital to find a mechanism whereby the applications of those who have applied in good time are not, as a consequence, delayed. I look forward to hearing the views from the committee in this regard.

A high point for the passport service in 2013 was the launch of a new passport book design with enhanced security features. The images used are representative of aspects of the Irish landscape and Irish culture. Over 100,000 of these new books are already in circulation and there has been a very warm reaction to the design, especially from Irish citizens resident overseas. The book was designed and produced in Ireland, won through a competitive tendering process by a consortium of Irish companies with design work delivered by a number of young Irish designers.

I have tried to cover some of the major issues for passport issuance in Ireland. I thank the Chairman and the committee for taking such an interest in passport issuance. The visit of the committee to the Balbriggan facility was very much appreciated. I welcome the opportunity to answer any questions you may have.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Nugent for his very informative presentation on how things have changed and improved so much in the Passport Office. When I first became a Deputy I went to the Passport Office. People were frustrated, and the staff were being abused. I felt sorry for the people behind the glass windows there because the arrangements were different then. It takes time to process a passport application, as Mr. Nugent said, particularly to prevent fraud and false identities. We thank Mr. Nugent for bringing in those new arrangements. Obviously they are working well. The passport service is still trying to deal with the situation where a person requires a non-emergency passport at short notice, particularly those going on holidays. We all have to come up with a solution there. If the passport service receives 600 such applications per day that is very difficult to deal with in peak season. I will take questions from members. Could members ask questions rather than make statements?

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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Could I start by not asking a question?

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Senator Walsh has started off well.

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome Mr. Nugent's submission. I have read it and it is very clear and paints a positive picture of the Passport Office, which I am glad to obtain because I have been a critic of it in the past, particularly of what went on at one stage during a campaign against Government policy. It is good to see what Mr. Nugent has here. I have some questions. First, I understand there was an operating surplus for 2012 of €6.55 million. Could Mr. Nugent tell us the total revenue and expenditure of the Passport Office? The cost of producing a passport is €52.64 and the average revenue is €63. That €63 struck me as low. Could Mr. Nugent explain it? There is an €80 fee for Passport Express, while other fees are €93. Maybe it is because 40% of applicants are children and there is a lower fee for them. Could Mr. Nugent clarify that?

My second question is on the numbers employed. Mr. Nugent said that in 1995 250,000 passports were issued, that doubled over the next five years and it is now 631,000. It seems high considering our population level. Maybe there was a rush and it is a blip, I do not know. Could Mr. Nugent tell us how the numbers went? He said he has 10% fewer staff in recent years. Could he please tell us the staff numbers between 1995, 2000 and the present, if he has that?

I appreciate that Mr. Nugent might not have that information today.

It is very interesting that the passport is now being used as a national identity. I was recently in a country where it was a prerequisite to present a passport in order to get a ballot paper when voting.

I welcome that overtime has been reduced by 90% since 2009 even though demand has increased. How was this achieved? Is it a product of better controls within the Passport Service? Is there a lesson there for the rest of the public service where there is an issue regarding the overall cost of overtime. Some people attribute it to a lack of good management within certain sectors. The overtime reduction is an indication that things may have significantly improved.

I welcome the flexibility the Passport Service has shown in dealing with demand by recruiting temporary staff. Has any consideration been given to contracting out the service particularly in the peak period leading up to the summer? If so what was the result of any assessment in that regard? Could any savings be effected by doing so?

Regarding passports for children, I note Mr. Nugent's comments on the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 2004. I fully appreciate the safeguards that are required. He said that it is more complicated as a result of the provisions of the Act, which might be necessary. From his experience, would Mr. Nugent like to see changes in any aspect of that legislation in order to simplify the passport application process without in any way diminishing the very safeguards that need to be in place in order to protect children? In replying, Mr. Nugent might outline what some of those safeguards are.

I join the Chairman in welcoming the guaranteed appointment times for people travelling to the Passport Office. It shows customer-service awareness on the office's part, which is good.

Regarding the backlog that builds up at certain times of the year, is there any advertising campaign in order to encourage people to spread their passport applications more evenly across the year. That would have the benefit of bringing in additional revenue from people who have not thought about getting a passport and might do so as a matter of practice. It might also even out the workload, which would benefit the Passport Service.

Mr. Nugent has invited us to give comments on the emergency passport facility, which is a very good facility. The Chairman has also commented on it. Apart from emergencies for bereavement or whatever, there are cases where a businessperson needs a passport urgently or perhaps a person might have flights booked and for whatever reason cannot find his or her passport. That was something one could tap into from the Oireachtas. On one occasion somebody rang me on a Saturday night and by 7 a.m. on Sunday that person had a passport, which was an exceptional service. In the past Oireachtas Members had access to fast-tracking in cases such as the one I mentioned, a facility which I believe no longer exists. That was changed a number of years ago and I believe it is a mistake. The public have a right to look to people, who are elected to Parliament, to resolve difficulties and we should have the capacity to do that.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the witnesses. Some of my questions may seem silly to the witnesses, but I am asking them because I do not know the system. In my first term as a Deputy, the system for Oireachtas Members was in place and it was helpful. One problem is that in the majority of cases people are coming to us as the last resort. They believe we have a magic phone number and can ring somebody to get it all sorted. As I am my party's foreign affairs spokesperson, they believe I have even more such phone numbers and that I have the ear of the Tánaiste, etc. It would be helpful if there was some sort of direct line or someone we could contact directly. While I accept it was abused in the past, it should be looked at again as part of this review.

People often ask Members to sign a passport application form. One of the stipulations is that it needs to be stamped. In some cases people do not need to stamp it, but in some cases people have rung back to say it was not legitimate because it was not stamped. I have also had this with MLAs in the North. As anybody could get a stamp made in this day and age, I wonder if it is really necessary. There is also a difficulty with the requirement to insert a telephone number. The best number on which to get me is my mobile phone number, which is probably true for the majority of people. I can insert the office number but I can only be contacted during office hours. In some cases officials have rung me back to say using a mobile number is not permissible.

People the North praise the Passport Express service, which I believe is available in 15 places in the North. However, there is no such service in Dungannon, which is a big town, and the people there would like to have it. Given that the Passport Service knows the areas where there is demand for passports, would it be possible to expand to other locations in the North.

Many people want to use the Irish form of their name and there seem to be difficulties with that in the North and also in the South. It is necessary to prove the applicant uses the Irish form of his or her name but there are difficulties in that regard. Historically in the North there would have been difficulties with people using the Irish form of the name. They would not have had it on other documentation, but perhaps for security reasons or colloquially they are known by such names. Perhaps Mr. Nugent might be able to address the matter.

Mr. Nugent has referred to people living outside Ireland in places such as London. However, for those living in Britain the further a person is from London the more difficult it is particularly in emergency situations. For those living in Liverpool, Birmingham or Scotland that contact is harder. Is there any equivalent to the passport express facility available in Britain or are there discussions on introducing such a facility?

Certain individuals may require a certified copy of a passport. I know of a person who was advised that only a solicitor could authorise a certified passport. He was told he could not get it from the Department directly because the Department was not in a position to declare it was a genuine document even though the document came directly from the Department. He had to get a solicitor to authorise it and go back to the Department, and it ended up costing him €120 for three copies. That may be somewhat unusual but it is still a problem.

There is difficulty in accessing services outside normal business hours, particularly at the weekends. In some cases Deputies might contact the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade number, particularly in emergency situations. Sometimes we find ourselves in a queue and there is no direct number. It is always at the wrong time - when people are off or on a bank holiday. Can anything be done in that regard?

Mr. Nugent spoke about the design of the passport, incorporating a quotation from James Orr, but there are no images from the North.

Why is the PPS number not on the passport? It is a person's identifier. Commentators say that whereas one's name is important to oneself, in the case of one's passport it is becoming less important than one's generic number, biometrics, etc. Could there be greater flexibility in that regard? This also refers to the Irish matters.

Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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I acknowledge the considerable progress that has been made, particularly with the Passport Express service.

I have one question. I must get a lesson from Senator Walsh as to how to go about this because he was more successful that I was. Somebody I knew had a passport stolen on a Saturday. It would have been on the system that the passport was not out of date and there would have been an immediate police report when it was discovered lost. The person was due to travel on the Monday and there was no accommodation forthcoming from the Passport Service. Mr. Nugent stated that there are 600 cases that do not come under emergencies and I wonder has he identified what some of those 600 are. I accept Deputy Crowe's point that there have been abuses by TDs in the past when there was a direct line, but there are genuine cases. The case I mentioned was one. The flight fare was lost, as was the hotel accommodation because it was too soon to get any sort of refund on it. It cost quite an amount. If there had been some way to have even paid a nominal fee to have got a passport quickly, in this case which I knew was genuine, where the passport was stolen and it was reported immediately, the details would have been there. I wonder how Mr. Nugent will look at those cases.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I will bring everybody in now because some of the questions are overlapping. It is much better in that Mr. Nugent will not have to answer questions twice.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the visitors for their presentations.

There has been a considerable improvement in the administration of passports over the past number of years. I note the demand is greater and it is where a member of the public finds himself or herself in an emergency that we must plan for to a greater extent that we have.

Occasionally, a constituent, when everything else is ready for the holiday, will seek assistance with a lost or out-of-date passport for their youngest child and will be asked why they did not think of that beforehand. That is not the issue. The issue is that it is not there now. That is how we must try to look at how to deal with it. Generally speaking, it has been possible to do a certain amount. There may be a case, as Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan mentioned, where it could be done better. That is not a criticism of the staff. It is a criticism of the system.

A couple of years ago, I had a situation where somebody arrived in this country to attend a funeral and their passport went out of date when they were here. They did not have time to do anything when they arrived. They had an Irish passport but they live in the United Kingdom. We tried everything and failed to get them a passport. They travelled over on the ferry and got the passport in the embassy in the United Kingdom in time for their flight which could not have been done otherwise. My point is it should be possible to unravel the wires to such an extent that it would be possible to meet the person's requirements. We did all that needed to be done in the case of an emergency and bereavement, and it did not happen. The system has improved since then and that is to be acknowledged.

Another matter I wanted to mention quickly is that of children's passports. This relates in most cases to immigrants or non-nationals. There are a quite a number of cases where the child has a passport and the parents do not and the determination of the parents' eligibility for naturalisation is still pending where the passports have been withdrawn. The grounds on which the passports are withdrawn are that the parent at the time of issue of the child's passport did not have an entitlement to residency in the State. The problem is that this causes confusion. The passport is already in place and it is there. I do not know why this still happens. There have been quite a number of such cases. I am not objecting to the granting of the passport to the children. The parents may have been here for ten years and for various reasons, they have not been naturalised. Ten years is a long time and one may have three or four children in that period. A number of the children in a family could have an Irish passport and the others not. That is the part that causes the problem for the parent, both from the point of view both of identification and from the point of view of travelling to see their grandparents, parents or whatever the case may be.

My last question is one I have raised previously. In a diplomatic passport, for some unknown reason the description of profession in all other cases is correct. If one is a Senator, it is clear enough, "Seanadóir". I am not sure whether they call one a Senator or Seanadóir in the English version. My point is that English, French and Irish are the three languages covered. In the Irish version, it states "Teachta Dála" or "Seanadóir". In the French version, it states the correct version, "Member of Parliament", "Senator", whatever the case may be. In the English version, as far as I can recall, it states "Teachta Dála" for a Deputy and, as far as I can recall, "Seanadóir" for a Senator - it is a while since I was in the Seanad. It certainly states, "Teachta Dála". I cannot understand how the English version should be, "Teachta Dála". It should be, "Member of Parliament", because the French version states, "Member of Parliament" - that is the translation. Either it is in French or it is not.

Dan Neville (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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Teachta Dála translated-----

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Mr. Nugent will answer that for Deputy Durkan.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is an issue. Nobody kicks up a row about it, but I cannot understand it. I have been inquiring about this for years. On one occasion somebody cynically asked was I wishing to change it, and "Yes" is the answer. If the professional description is in French as it should be and in Irish as it should be - I have a problem not with the Irish version but with the English version - why do we revert back to the Irish version in the English translation?

Dan Neville (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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It is Teachta Dála in the legislation.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Nobody calls one a Member of Parliament here-----

Dan Neville (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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Teachta Dála is not a Member of Parliament.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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-----they call one a Teachta Dála, TD. Okay, we will let-----

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Would the Chairman say that again?

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Nobody calls one a Member of Parliament; they call one a TD, Teachta Dála.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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If one were in an English-speaking country, such as Canada or Australia, they do not know what a Teachta Dála is.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Okay. We will see can we get an answer to that.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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We are well known but not that well known.

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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At the outset, I congratulate the office for doing an outstanding job.

I would rather see the empowerment of the citizens on how to get emergency passports than opening it up to politicians to have this exclusive right of access.

I am not good at mathematics but it strikes me, if my figures are correct, that if the Passport Service has issued 631,000 in the past year and these are of three, five or ten year duration, and if the Passport Service issued 631,000 the previous year, that comes to 1.263 million. If I included the previous year again, we would be up to nearly the number of the population. Surely everybody in Ireland does not possess a passport. For a country of 4.5 million, and, say, the few in Northern Ireland who would wish to carry an Irish passport as against a British passport, how could there be so many acquiring passports in one year? These seem remarkably large numbers.

My second question, and the route I want to go, may not be relevant to the Passport Service. It may be relevant to the Department of Justice and Equality, but Mr. Nugent might comment. We have been assaulted in verbal terms by politicians in Latvia who suggested that we were facilitating Latvian women in getting married here and obtaining Irish passports for in the main Pakistani partners, as against lovers, for the day. I understand from reading newspaper reports that there will be a revision of the methodology used for the recognition of marriages that are occurring, apparently, amongst other places, in embassies in Ireland, and the question of marriages of convenience for money or whatever.

On that issue, have the Latvians a case to be complaining about Ireland? Given the supremacy of the document and given that the Irish passport is the most valuable document any citizen can carry and the integrity of that person and the State is recognised in this piece of paper, can Mr. Nugent, as the head of the Passport Service, guarantee that there have been no further abuses or passports issued illegally to false claimants?

It seems that in the past our passport was easy to duplicate or obtain fraudulently in so far as the security services of Israel and the United States of America used forged Irish passports in carrying out assassinations on political opponents throughout the world. Can Mr. Nugent tell me now that our biometric system is almost incapable of being subject to forgery in so far as anything can be 100% foolproof?

This Government prides itself on having created 60,000 new citizens of the State in the past three years mainly comprising former immigrants or former refugees from 120 countries. Is Mr. Nugent happy that the systems are robust enough that those who are recognised for passport eligibility are fully vetted and is it the Garda National Immigration Bureau which ratifies the authenticity of a person of non-Irish nationality when he or she applies for a passport?

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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On a question Deputy Byrne asked, there is legislation on sham marriages being prepared by the Department of Social Protection and I am not sure the passport office has anything to do with that issue.

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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I appreciate that. I did qualify my question.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Mr. Nugent has heard questions from members on their concerns about, and compliments on, the Passport Office. I will hand over to him.

Mr. Joseph Nugent:

I might jump between some of the questions, if that is okay.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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That is fine. That is why I brought everybody in together.

Mr. Joseph Nugent:

I appreciate that.

Senator Walsh asked the total revenue for 2012. I do not have the figure to hand but I will revert with it in due course. As I stated, the average revenue received per passport in 2012 was €63. That has increased, from €59.85 in 2011, €54.65 in 2010 and €55.32 in 2009. There has been a gradual increase in the average revenue per book produced, but I will revert with the total figure.

As regards an explanation for the €63 figure, the Senator himself answered the question in that the balance between children's passports and adult passports, and other revenue, such as the additional charge for lodging an application at the counter, for example, emergency fees, have an impact on the total amount. However, it is primarily related to the balance and mix of adult and child passports in that area. That is why the figure is not on the higher side. I guess, if we are charging €26.50 for a child passport and €80 for an adult, one can see the numbers that are there. We issue, as I stated, approximately 0.25 million passports to children during the year and it is through that difference that the revenue figure occurs.

In terms of staffing levels in the period, in 2009 the total staffing complement of permanent staff was in the order of 340, with a further 140 temporary staff taken on at that time. Last year the figure of permanent staff had reduced, from those 340 to 280, and we would have taken on approximately 140 temporary staff as well. In essence, there was a reduction of 60 permanent staff members over that five-year period.

On achievement of overtime savings, we have streamlined a lot of the existing processes of passport issuance. A lot of time was taken up in dealing with large numbers appearing at the public counters. This is one example of how we addressed this. That, in itself, consumes a considerable amount of time. Equally, there was the level of rejection of applications through the ordinary post service where over 90% of such passport applications presented problems. By switching applicants into the more effective streamlined systems of Passport Express, we have managed to achieve efficiencies in that area.

We have also looked at streaming out and breaking out applications into what we call twin lanes. In essence, this is looking to see are there applications that can be approved more easily than some of the more complex applications and get large numbers of those, from a throughput point of view, and spend less time having to do it. There are efficiencies around our general processes and looking to see how the organisation is run.

Probably, the biggest significant change has been the use of the temporary staff for seasonal demand. Previously, much of the overtime would have been spent in dealing with the extreme peaks during the summer period. By taking on our temporary staff that little bit earlier, we have been in a position to achieve a greater level of understanding amongst the temporary staff and let them respond more during the summer peak. That, in itself, has generated enormous saving.

The reduction of the permanent staffing numbers reflects the approach we have taken to the way in which the staffing model of the organisation operates. Rather than having large numbers of staff who have less work to do during the winter months, it is much better to have them productive year round and then have more staff come in to supplement the temporary seasonal demand that is required.

Senator Walsh asked about contracting out the service during the summer peak. There are complexities involved, most particularly with the standards body in the area of passport issuance, the International Civil Aviation Organisation. It is their view, and their recommended best practice, that the State should retain under direct control, not contracted out, the entitlement processes. One can understand that, that the State has ownership of who, as Deputy Eric Byrne referred to it, has this important significant document of identity for the Irish State. There are limits to what can be achieved around that space but it is not something that we would dismiss out of hand. It is something we keep under review.

On amendments made to the Act in relation to children, Deputies Durkan and Eric Byrne referred to some of the complexities associated with this process. On the residency issue, the reckonable residency calculation is extremely complex and whereas that is not primarily an issue for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade - it is an issue for the Department of Justice and Equality - it nonetheless is the area that consumes a significant proportion of our time. The documentation requirements associated with establishing what is reckonable residency are not easy by any means. Deputy Durkan certainly has been in contact with the office around such problems that have emerged. Most particularly, one can get into situations where, as the Deputy referred, one has some children who are entitled to a passport and a brother or sister suddenly finds himself or herself that he or she is not by factor of birth. That will become less of an issue in the future but, particularly for those children who were born around the period associated with 2005, there are more of those anomalies that we see. Especially, as they become older and are getting into the space of travelling, it probably emerges more than might have been the case up to that point.

On a campaign of advertising, I am pleased to say that last weekend the passport service took a stand at Holiday World. It is the second year in a row that we have taken that. As a result of that campaign at the weekend, there are approximately 3,000 additional citizens who took the opportunity to register on our expiry reminder service. That is one small example of how advertising can have a positive impact for the organisation. I encourage members to refer to citizens who are in touch with them that we have a simple reminder service. It takes 30 seconds to register to remind yourself of when your passport is due to expire. It is a service well worth using.

Deputy Crowe raised a number of operational and logistical questions around the use of stamps, phones, etc. I take on board much of what he said. We need, as I stated in my opening remarks, to balance some of these demands that often are seen as not ideal against what we think are reasonable measures to protect against identity theft and fraud. I hear what he is saying about the stamp. It is something we have considered.

We are looking to see how we can overcome those issues. That is something we will take away and look at further. I agree that the concept of using a paper stamp in this day and age is far from the most secure method, but it is better than not having a stamp. That is all I would say for the moment.
Certainly the witnessing element that is required most particularly for those people who are not resident in the State is very different. Most people who apply for a passport are obviously applying within the State and their interaction is directly through the Garda Síochána. I thank the Garda Síochána for the work they do in providing that witnessing service. It is very important from our perspective. Clearly, outside the State there is a particular challenge, but we will see where we can go with that.
In relation to certainty, mobile phones are clearly a problem. The traditional view has been that by establishing a physical relationship with somebody's place through a landline telephone, one has a greater level of certainty that the person one is talking to on the telephone is who they say they are. Obviously, as time moves on, there are fewer fixed landlines in place and people rely far more on mobile phones. It is a problem we are aware of and I do not know if we have a particular answer to it.
The Deputy asked about the level of availability of the Passport Express service in Northern Ireland. I think there are about 15 post offices that provide the service. I accept there are a number of places where the service is not as available as it should be. Coincidentally, I am meeting with the Post Office in London next month to talk through some of the issues associated with the availability of that service to establish whether a greater use of the post office network, most particularly in England, Scotland and Wales, could be provided. At present, the service is available only in the main post office in Liverpool and Glasgow. Clearly, that is not the spread one would expect in a country of that size. I was speaking to Ms Assumpta Griffin, who runs our office in London, about this particular issue today and it is an issue we will take up with them.
The service was introduced at a particular point in time. It recognised the effect of the Anglo Irish Agreement and the importance of making passports more readily accessible, particularly in Northern Ireland. It was put in place at that point. It is timely to reassess how that service is operating to ascertain if we can achieve greater use of it, particularly in Britain. I am conscious that 40,000 applicants in England, Scotland and Wales apply for passports each year. To provide a service that is more accessible to those applicants would be in all our interests and it is certainly an issue we will be exploring further with the Post Office.
The Deputy asked about names in Irish. It is something that has caused concern for many people. I used to write back and say that our concern is not about the name that somebody uses; it is about the establishment of two identities. There have been many cases in which individuals have been using and seeking to use alternative names - I am not talking about Irish names per se.One may be trying to find an alternative name to establish a second identity for whatever purpose. In that context the Passport Act has set out the framework in which the name should be used. The Act provides that the name that appears on one's passport should either be the name on one's previous passport or the name used on one's birth certificate, whether that was in English or in Irish, but the idea of establishing the Irish form of one's name is not provided for specifically. It relates to the name with which one was registered or the name used on one's previous passport. However, people have a genuine and reasonable need to change those names on occasion. The Act makes provision for changes of name in relation to, for example, marriage. We look for usage of the name in some way. We accept completely that the usage of the name as Gaeilge in Northern Ireland is clearly a much more sensitive issue than elsewhere. Therefore, when we come across circumstances in which that arises we try to work with the applicant to see what can be done. There are alternative approaches we can take to assist in that regard. One way we have tried to resolve this matter is by providing people with the observation on page 3 of the passport to say something on the lines of "Known in English and in Irish as...".There is some work we can do to enable a person to establish the necessary proofs that the name he or she is using is valid and is not an attempt to set up a second identity. I would be more than happy to speak to the Deputy specifically about that issue. If there are individual issues or if there are MLAs who are coming across problems with that, it is something we would be more than willing to discuss further.
The Deputy talked about a certified copy of the passport. May I clarify whether the Deputy was talking about obtaining a certified copy of an Irish passport?

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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That is correct.

Mr. Joseph Nugent:

Yes, there are procedures and processes in place around that issue. It is a service that is provided. We see far more of that in our office in London than in Dublin. There are consular fees established for the purposes of certifying that. If there are specific problems associated with the process or in terms of availability of the service I would be more than happy to speak to the Deputy and see whether it is something we can readily overcome.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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Chairman, may I speak?

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Yes; go ahead.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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In the case with which I am familiar, the individual could not understand when he sought a certified copy why the official said the office could not certify that it was a genuine document. There is probably a legal reason for this. The individual had to go to a solicitor and fork out €50 and then get the certified copies.

Mr. Joseph Nugent:

Sure.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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It was an extra layer of bureaucracy.

Mr. Joseph Nugent:

As I said-----

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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It is probably just one example in a million.

Mr. Joseph Nugent:

It does surprise me. Maybe it was something that occurred at a weekend when there was not availability of access to our systems. I do not know. Certainly it is a service that is provided - I would not say on a daily basis, but is a usual and normal service that is provided. Again, if that type of situation occurs, please let us know because something may have fallen between stools.

Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan raised some questions around the issue of lost passports. There is no easy answer to this. I understand it is an area that concerns many citizens who seek to travel at short notice. It is when they do not have their passports that particular challenges are created. To put the issue in context, we receive reports of 30,000 lost or stolen passports per year, the vast majority of which are lost. If I do a maths exercise - it may not be as good as Deputy Eric Byrne's - that equates to roughly 120 passports per day. This is a big issue for Ireland as a society. I thank Deputy Eric Byrne for his comments on how important and how critical the document is. We need to get the message out to Irish citizens that a passport is not like a bus ticket or a plane ticket. This is a document that has a value over and above what one might automatically say. Therefore, the care we give to passports is critically important. The fact that there are losses of that scale suggests that we have not quite got into that. We are looking to see if there are things we can do around that. Considerable numbers of passports are handed in to us after music festivals. Following music festivals in Deputy Bernard Durkan's constituency area, to which people travel from all over the country, we might get a box of passports returned to us on a given weekend. I am sure they are not from Kildare. They are from people from all over the country. It reflects the fact that travelling around with a document that is as bulky as a passport book is in itself not ideal.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Young people do it on a Saturday night as well.

Mr. Joseph Nugent:

Young people do it on a Saturday night. That is the biggest problem with regard to this issue. Notwithstanding that, in the case of people who have lost passports and who seek to travel at short notice, it does not give us much time to verify a person's identity. That is the reason that although express services are provided, they are not provided for people who have lost passports. Such a system is not uncommon around the world. It is a question of balance between ensuring that fraudsters are not using the opportunity to steal somebody's identity and allowing people to travel in circumstances in which not a huge amount of time is available. The Tánaiste said last week that he wanted to seek ways in which we can expand the emergency service. We are committed to doing something about that. I have not worked out exactly how we will do it, but the Tánaiste, the Department and I have made a commitment that we will do something about this, and we will try to do something in advance of the summer peak. How expansive or extensive that service will be has to be measured against a range of conflicting priorities. We do not want to introduce a service that facilitates somebody in stealing another person's identity or equally provides somebody with an opportunity to abduct a child and take him or her outside the State.

I know they are extreme examples but they occur, unfortunately, and we need to protect against them. Equally, we do not want to discommode individuals who are in the system. It becomes a cycle if some are prioritised and others who are pushed back suddenly need to be brought further up the queue. We know there is a gap in that service and it is something we are committed to try to address.

I was interested in Deputy Durkan's comments concerning Teachta Dála. I did not know that and I will try to find out why that is the case.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I ask the Chairman to note that.

Mr. Joseph Nugent:

I suspect that it probably relates to the fact that the English version of the name in the Constitution is referred to as Teachta Dála. I hear what the Deputy is saying, however, and we will see if there is something we can do about that.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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In France, the description is of a Member of the House of Deputies or a Member of the Senate.

Mr. Joseph Nugent:

Yes.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The description in French in our passports is "Member of Parliament".

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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It only affects about 200 people so it is not a big issue.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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No. If one is going to French-speaking Quebec they know who we are all right but I have not been there.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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We might go there yet.

Mr. Joseph Nugent:

Deputy Byrne raised the question of the number of passports. In some ways it is a really interesting question. The average number of passports that have been issued over the past nine years has been in the order of 600,000. We have seen a gradual increase in that over the years. To answer Deputy Byrne's question in so far as I can, clearly we are not just talking about people who are resident in the State. We also have to factor in the 40,000 people who are resident in Northern Ireland, the 40,000 who applied through our office in London, and the 40,000 who applied through our embassies overseas. That is 120,000 out of the 630,000. If one considers that children are applying for three or five year passports, as the case may be, they are occurring more frequently than the standard adult passport. Lastly, if one factors in lost or stolen passports on top of that, it is roughly another 30,000. The last figure I saw for the number of live passports was a little less than 5 million. When one thinks of the population of Irish citizens around the world, that does not seem to be completely out of the ordinary. It reflects an increasing demand for individuals to change their passports as well. We have quite a number of repeat customers who, for whatever reason, seek to change their passports. I am tempted to tell a human story but that may be for another day.

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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Are they allowed to apply to change their passports?

Mr. Joseph Nugent:

Yes, absolutely. Let me tell the story. A sports personality who changed their hairstyle wanted a new passport to reflect the photograph. I can understand how somebody would want that because they do not necessarily feel they look like that when they present at border control. If people want to apply on a daily basis to renew their passport, they can.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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What is Mr. Nugent's definition of a change of hairstyle? Is it with a different colour, a pink tint?

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Durkan, please.

Mr. Joseph Nugent:

The foreign weddings issue is not an area with which I am sufficiently competent. The Chairman has referred the matter to the Department of Social Protection and the work of the General Register Office in that area. The Passport Act outlines the circumstances in which somebody can apply for a passport. It is primarily that they are an Irish citizen. We apply those laws rigorously to ensure only people who are Irish citizens can get an Irish passport. Without trying to pass the buck on this issue, it is not an area on which I feel I can talk with competence.

Deputy Byrne also referred to guarantees concerning false applicants, but I cannot provide such guarantees. However, a significant number of people try to get access to an Irish passport. The passport service does everything it can to put in place mechanisms to protect against false applications and theft. Unfortunately, however, there are individuals who have successfully obtained false Irish passports. This is a moving target for us and something we continue to work on vigorously to ensure we put in place reasonable systems for the majority of Irish citizens, while protecting their identities.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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To elaborate on that, how tamper-proof is the new passport that has been released, particularly the e-passport?

Mr. Joseph Nugent:

To take forgery, as opposed to false applications, the book is at the high end of passport security features. We have a range of security features that are not used by any other passports in use around the world at the moment. We are most definitely at the upper end of the security element. The process for forging the passport is much more difficult. The Deputy referred to some high profile instances of this internationally. The documents that were used were very old, going back three versions of that document for forging purposes. We have moved on considerably in that area.

The biometric element is the shape of a person's face and personal information which is protected using encryption and technology beyond my understanding. It is encrypted on the document itself. The range of physical security measures makes it difficult to photocopy or forge. I am happy to give a guarantee that, in so far as we can, we have moved the passport document into a different space.

We have some general leaflets which we used at the holiday world show. I will leave them with the committee to provide a sample or flavour of some of the images that would apply.

Deputy Crowe asked why there were no images on the book that are North of the Border. The issue for the Irish passport was more about citizenship and heritage rather than territorial issues. It definitely recognises that the right to an Irish passport does not stop at the Border. There are a number of images that reflect the all-Ireland dimension of the book itself. There is a map of Ireland prominently inside the front cover. It is there proudly to reflect that somebody who is an Irish citizen comes from this island. That was an important element for it. It also includes a range of other matters, including the text of Article 2 of the Constitution, which deals with a person's entitlement to Irish citizenship related to being part of the island of Ireland, and which is on the document itself. That appears both in Irish and English through the book. The crests of the four provinces appear inside the back cover. A range of river gods of Ireland are also referenced, including the Bann and the Lagan. There are a series of images that reflect that all-island dimension. Much of our cultural heritage is reflected in the book. The Deputy referred to the poetry of James Orr but, equally, there are cross-Border and all-island sports that are referenced such as Gaelic games and our musical heritage. We have moved the book into a place that tries to express that broad issue of entitlement.

I apologise if I have missed somebody's question, but I think I have answered most of them. I was asked why the PPS number is not included on the passport. I cannot remember who asked that question. The standard concerning the production of the passport book is laid down through international standards. Therefore, producing a person's PPS number on the book is a challenge. We have spoken to the Department of Social Protection about that issue and we will see if there are mechanisms to facilitate individuals in that regard. However, it is not something that can be done simply. The actual format and layout of the book is governed by international standards and we clearly want to ensure the Irish passport stays within those parameters.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I apologise that I had to slip out of the meeting earlier. I welcome our visitors and compliment Mr. Nugent on the significant progress that has been made in recent years. There has been a significant improvement in the service to the public.

On the issue of turning passport applications around quickly in emergencies such as bereavements or serious illness, would it be possible to extend that to people who need to travel urgently? I assume the office would hope to extend that facility at a future date.

There is an issue with the major spike in demand for applications during the two summer months. I presume one way of addressing this would be if a system were in place that would notify people in advance when their passport was due for renewal, in the same way a person gets notified about motor tax. Has that been covered?

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Yes, but there is no harm repeating it.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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There should be sporadic or continual reminders for people who intend to travel to the effect that they should look at their passport regularly in order that we avoid all the difficulties the office has been trying to come to terms with in recent years. Thankfully, the office seems to have a handle on them at the moment.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I will add one question. The work of the Passport Office with the Department of Justice and Equality and the associated link is important. Will the deputation comment on that?

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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One difficulty that used to arise involved people going to the local Garda station but the garda not recognising them. Is that it still a problem? There is a view that the garda will only know the person if he is a criminal. That is the answer most people give. Is that a difficulty? How can we address that?

There is an issue with photographs on passports. We have heard about people changing their hair. One reason for rejection which arose regularly was that a person's face was too near the lens. I have had cases in which the photographs were rejected. However, gardaí were passing them. I wonder about the training.

My last question is about forms. A person working in England lost her passport and sent the new application form home. The father went to the office but the form could not be processed because it was the wrong one. Is there any way of sorting that out? The difficulty was the girl in question could not come home to put the application through in Dublin because she did not have identification.

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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I touched on a point about the 60,000 new Irish. We have moved from a monocultural to a multicultural society in a short period and this has brought complexities such as the use of names by African, Arabian or Muslim people. We have always used the traditional Christian name and surname. Still to this day, many people think their first name is their Christian name, but if a person is a Muslim then he is not a Christian. How is the office managing that? It is not only a matter of the composition of the names because there are differences in the cultural application of a name in various nations. There is also the written format, which I imagine is completely alien to many of the staff at the Passport Office. How is the office managing the significant diversity of citizens from the wide and wonderful world?

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Byrne has prompted me to ask the first question, which relates to head scarves or the burqa. How does the office handle those situations?

Reference was made to the surplus that is being generated. The State does not have a great record of reducing prices. Invariably, we increase them. Is the approximate €10 difference between the €63 and €52-odd in the cost of producing passports a sustainable difference? Will it increase in future?

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Those are the final questions. Mr. Nugent, you are clearly a star with the committee because we had a good deal of interaction between members and yourself.

Mr. Joseph Nugent:

I will finish with the questions of Senator Walsh, if he does not mind, because it will be a useful way to tie up some of the pieces. The Chairman asked about the link with the Department of Justice and Equality. Deputy Crowe referred to our relationship with An Garda Síochána and the applicant experience of dealing with An Garda Síochána. It is important to thank and recognise the members of An Garda Síochána, who provide invaluable assistance to us in many ways, not least through the witnessing process. I imagine in the list of things they have to do, this represents an extraordinary pressure. As a society, we are benefiting from the result of their assistance and involvement in the process. Deputy Crowe is absolutely correct that in many instances an individual may not be so well known with An Garda Síochána, but it has not emerged as a major problem for us. Where circumstances arise in which a person is in that category, we have processes around assisting individuals in establishing their identity. If people come forward to us in that area, it is something we can do. In general terms, it is fair to say it has not proved a major difficulty for us.

Notwithstanding that, I will pick up on Deputy Byrne's comments on fraudulent passports and the attempts at abusing passports. I pay thanks in particular to An Garda Síochána and the security service for their ongoing assistance in this area. This is done behind the scenes, for obvious reasons. We have close, productive and almost daily, if not weekly, meetings with An Garda Síochána on matters that emerge. The relationship is very positive and productive in this area.

The question of witnessing in Britain is certainly causing challenges. This week, extensions will be offered relating to the range of witnesses who may provide witnessing services in Britain. This is reflective of the increasing challenges and the slight differences in the way we approach passport witnessing here and overseas. In Ireland, we expect that the person is stating that he is satisfied as to his identity. In Britain, there is a different approach. It is a good deal more formal there and a person must be personally known to the witness. Certainly, we have encountered circumstances in which categories of individuals have found it difficult to get a witness in a range of sectors. We have done something to try to improve the process and help to make the issue more easily accessible for Irish residents in Britain. The availability of a passport express-type service in more locations throughout the country and a greater familiarity locally around the Irish passport issuing process will help in this regard. There will be a good deal more local awareness.

Since the process is rather centralised around our London operation, much of the work tends to be for people who are travelling distances. They come to our office in London, then realise they must get the form witnessed and then they run into difficulty in engaging with people who clearly will not be known. Those people are certainly rather cautious about witnessing. This is something we recognise and that we will try to address and deal with.

Deputy Byrne referred to the issue of names. It is most definitely a challenge. We have seen circumstances which we have managed to overcome with our colleagues in the Department of Justice and Equality involving someone who comes through the naturalisation process and perhaps whose first and second names have been switched or are in the wrong position. We have worked with people in those situations. What we try to do is maintain a link with the name by which the person was previously known. Therefore, people provide birth certificates from their country of birth or the passport from their country of residence to establish who they are. In those circumstances the problems tend not to arise.

I am also aware there are variations in spelling, especially around Arab names, if that is the politically correct phrase to use. There are names for which a slight subtlety in variation of spelling can cause a challenge or issue. Our primary responsibility is to ensure people are not trying to establish a second identity. If we can achieve that in partnership and by working with the individuals concerned, it is of great use to us.

The head scarf issue was raised. It is something we have dealt with in the application guides for those who apply. There are a set of guidelines on photographs. The level of rejects of passports for photograph reasons has reduced substantially in the past ten years.

Photographs became a serious issue in 2004 for the first time. In 2006 the introduction of the chip on the passport brought about a significant level of failure in passport applications because of photograph problems. That is not the biggest problem today. Most people who use the services of pharmacies have got used to setting up the photographs correctly. There are challenges in the international differences in the standard of photograph required. Passport photograph standards vary and a photograph that is accepted in one country for an online visa may not be accepted in another for a passport. The international community needs to do a little more work to overcome that problem. We will contribute to that process.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Over the years there have been instances of passports lost or stolen and in one or two spectacular cases the Israeli Government acquired - for want of a better description - Irish passports. Have any of those passports ever turned up?

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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Mr. Nugent mentioned the scarf or the hijab. Could he explain the reasoning behind the burka?

Mr. Joseph Nugent:

Primarily, we need to get the shape of the person’s face. We need to establish a range of facial measurements associated with exposing the face. The face needs to be uncovered. We need to see the person’s hairline and as far as her ear line and jaw. This is the international standard so we in Ireland are not doing anything that would not happen in other countries. The photograph guidelines are provided.

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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Presumably the Saudi Arabians have their own passport for which the women have to unveil.

Mr. Joseph Nugent:

They absolutely do. For international travel there is a requirement to be able to see a range of particular focal points, such as the position of the eye.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I asked whether the passports that were stolen, sold or misappropriated ever reappeared.

Mr. Joseph Nugent:

That raises a couple of points. The many Irish passports used in Dubai at the time of the assassination in 2010 never turned up. One assumes they were destroyed immediately after the people using them exited the country.
I thank the Deputy for raising the question. The physical copies of the passport images were published on the Internet and several commercial con men have been using and trying to sell reproductions of those images and identities to the unsuspecting. In a couple of cases individuals have turned up in banks or other places with something that has some of those identity pieces. The message needs to get out that there are official ways to apply for a passport and if one engages with con men one will be conned.
Senator Mullins raised several questions and it might be useful to repeat the points. There is a passport reminder service available on our website, passport.ie. It is very simple. The individual puts in the expiry date of the passport and receives an e-mail from us three months or so in advance of the expiry date. We might bring that reminder date forward. The service is not well known and we need to do a little more work on that.
Last weekend we had a stand at Holiday World as part of a general campaign to remind people about passport issues. We asked people at the stand three questions, and we continue to ask them: Do you know where your passport is? Do you know when it will expire? Do you know when your childrens’ passports will expire? If we can get those questions out from here and elsewhere it will make our lives easier but more important, it will reduce the stress that people suffer before they travel. The Minister said last week that we are committed to putting in place something to address some of the problems around urgent travel. I caution that we will not be in a position to provide the service to the 600 people who demanded that type of service two years ago. We will have to find something that is balanced. If a person finds himself or herself in genuine difficulty, unbeknownst to himself or herself, and if there is a mechanism we can use to do something about that we will try to put something in place before the summer peak. If there are issues that the members feel are relevant we will be more than willing to take them on board.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I have a question, looking to the future. Is the day approaching when we will have automatic border controls such that the passport will be so sophisticated that no one will be needed at the control point? In other words, will it work like Heuston Station ticket control so that one will be let through automatically?

Mr. Joseph Nugent:

I have been assisting colleagues in the Department of Justice and Equality with a pilot that may still be in operation in part of Terminal 1 at Dublin Airport, where people could present an electronic passport and go through automatic border control gates. That ran for several months. I cannot confirm whether it is still in place. I have not been through there for a while.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I have not seen it.

Mr. Joseph Nugent:

It was only in Terminal 1.

We have been talking to other countries about ensuring that if one travels into them one can use the Irish passport. The Australians are studying our passport to see if we can help in that process. For those who have an electronic passport the technology exists to allow that happen. We can work with any country that offers that service. The possibility of moving large numbers of people quickly through Dublin Airport would be of great benefit.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Nugent very much indeed. He has cleared up a lot of issues for members. We have had a very good exchange. The passport reminder service is a really good service and would alleviate the problems that arise when people find themselves without a passport a few days before they travel.

I also thank the two great workers from the Passport Office who joined Mr. Nugent today, Ms Fiona Penollar and Ms Siobhan Watters. I thank them for coming in. We look forward to working closely with the witnesses in the future. I thank them for dealing so comprehensively with all the questions raised by members today. Normally we have only one round of questions but today most members came in twice, which shows the level of their interest in this subject. We hope that the Passport Office has a trouble free year this year and will continue the good work it has done over the past few years.