Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I have received apologies from Deputy Olivia Mitchell and Senator Clune who are attending the plenary session of the Council of Europe in Strasbourg this week and Senator Norris who is unable to join us this afternoon. The draft minutes of the meeting of 15 and 16 January 2014 have been circulated to members. Are the minutes agreed? Agreed.

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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There is something arising. Could we record apologies from Deputy Brendan Smith?

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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No problem.

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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He is at a funeral. Can I refer to the minutes of the meeting on 16 January? I thank the committee for forwarding a copy of the Bogota Declaration to the Department for its consideration. I hope when we get the response from the Department, we might put it on the agenda for discussion. It is a fairly long-----

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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The Senator can raise the matter when we get a response and we will talk about it then.

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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That is fine, if the Chairman puts it on the agenda for that meeting.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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We have asked the Department for a response. The Senator can watch for it in the correspondence and we will put it in the correspondence.

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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The Irish experience was strongly focused on by many of the Colombians, particularly President Santos, as perhaps a template for what they might do and aspects they might apply in their own peace process.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I know the Senator has a special interest in that area so we might wait for the response from the Department. We will then take it in correspondence and the Senator can raise it at that stage.

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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There is one other matter. Again, it was in the same minutes and related to the suspension of the committee. I am not asking for any decision or discussion now but the Chairman might give some consideration to the committee continuing. It continues if the Senators leave so it should continue if Deputies leave or there could be a pairing arrangement. There might be instances where you could not continue it because of the nature of the topic but there are times when we could continue and the Chairman should look at that because it is a bit discourteous to people who attend the meetings at their own time and expense to have to wait around for half an hour while votes are taking place.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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We will have a look at it but the problem is that as Chair, if I must go to a vote, I have no choice but to suspend the meeting.

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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I understand that. Perhaps it might involve discussion with all the Whips but with a majority of about 60 in the House, it should not be necessary to suspend all committee meetings.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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It is something we might raise at the meeting with the other chairpersons. The Senator might put it in writing and I will raise it at the general chairs meeting. I will come back to him with a response after next week.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Apropos of that-----

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Is it about the minutes?

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There is a need to organise internally all the meetings that take place with a view to ensure that we are not in three places at the one time because there are far less committees than there were in the previous Dáil. We were all members of more committees previously and were able to attend them.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Is the Deputy talking about internal committees or Oireachtas committees?

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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They both clash.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Our committees are set for a certain date every week so perhaps the Deputy should raise the fact that our committee meets every Wednesday at 2.30 p.m. at the internal committees. I know he is a member of a number of committees and that is where he has a real problem.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There are parliamentary party meetings as well. What about the Order of Business?

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I am very conscious of that but the problem with parliamentary party meetings is the fact that most of the time, we have meetings late on a Wednesday afternoon. I am sure we have the same problem with the meetings of the Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and Labour Party parliamentary parties and those of the Independents, not to forget our good friend Deputy O'Sullivan. The difficulty is that sometimes, we are caught with the Tánaiste's itinerary and the time at which he is available so that is why we have to push back meetings to 3.30 p.m. or 4.30 p.m. and it then clashes with our own parliamentary party meeting. I do not know what time the other parties have their parliamentary party meetings at but I know that part of the problem on a Wednesday afternoon is the fact that the meeting of our parliamentary party is on a Wednesday afternoon.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The one big advantage in accommodating the parliamentary party meetings is that the members do not go to each other's parliamentary party meetings. They only go to their own.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I know that but our meeting is on Wednesday where the Fine Gael parliamentary party meeting is held at 5.30 p.m. so that means all the Fine Gael members can be absent at a critical time when the Tánaiste and other witnesses are appearing before us. That is the difficulty we have. We will bear that in mind and I will ask the clerk to the committee to bear that in mind with respect to witnesses in the future. If members give us the times when their parliamentary party meetings are held, we will try not to hold meetings at those times if we can. Sometimes it is unavoidable, particularly if we have guests from outside because they have no other slot to come into but we will try to bear that in mind.

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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Could the clerk to the committee speak to the clerk to the Oireachtas Joint Committee on European Union Affairs specifically? We got caught in a very embarrassing position a couple of weeks ago or possibly last week because at least two of us are members of both committees. The meetings were held at the same time and both were very important events. One cannot attend two meetings at the same time so I would be concerned about the Joint Committee on European Union Affairs.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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The clerk will speak to the clerk to the Joint Committee on European Union Affairs. That should not happen normally because many members of this committee, particularly Opposition spokespersons, are members of both committees. Our slot is normally on a Wednesday afternoon and the other committee's slot is on Thursday. It was probably because there was some arrangement. We did not change our date so the Committee on European Union Affairs probably changed its date to suit somebody. We will deal with those issues and get the clerk to liaise with the clerk to the Joint Committee on European Union Affairs. Are there any other matters?

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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In respect of the last item-----

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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We are dealing with the minutes.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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In respect of any other business, I requested a copy of the correspondence and reports relating to the Irish Immigration Center in Boston. I know we were previously given the response by the Tánaiste which is, of course, welcome but what I was looking for were the actual reports sent by the centre to our consulate and those sent by our consulate to Dublin. Given the fact that we give it $260,000, we are entitled to find out what went wrong in that incident that was so publicised and what has been done to rectify the situation so that it would not arise again.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Does the Senator mind if we deal with that issue under correspondence?

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Chairman to outline the position on it.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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We have received the information from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. That is the only information we have received. It is more or less the same as the original information. Clearly sensitive issues are involved. I suggest that if the Senator is able to raise it in another forum as part of his remit, he should do so. As far as I am concerned, we have explored it as far as we can.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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This is the appropriate forum to raise it.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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We received the information which the Senator sought from the Department.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I cannot see it in the correspondence I have received. We have raised it repeatedly.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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It is under correspondence item No. 1352. That is the information we have.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Is this the item dated 23 October 2013? It is the same item we received previously.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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It is the same item we received previously.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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We asked for information.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I cannot make an answer for the Senator.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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It is entirely unsatisfactory that an organisation to which we provide $260,000 acted in the manner it did but this committee does not get a report to allow us to decide whether it offered value for money. We do not want to send everything to the Committee of Public Accounts because it has enough on its plate. If the Department is not going to give us a report we should write to the organisation concerned to ask for one. When a Government gives €260,000 to an organisation we should expect more than a reference to a parliamentary question. If an organisation which gets our money submits a report, it should be made public because we are entitled to find out when something goes wrong. One does not have to be a member of this committee to read a parliamentary question. I am asking for a report.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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The Senator is assuming that something went wrong.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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It would have been raised in the Dáil if everything was hunky dory.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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According to the e-mail received from the Department on 22 January, the situation remains as outlined in the letter of 23 October 2013 and the remaining 50% balance of €130,000 for the emigrant support programme grant awarded to the IIIC was paid in December. If something specific was wrong, the Department would conduct its own internal investigation. We are assuming something we do not know.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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That is because we are not getting a report. This is the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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We are undermining the Department by suggesting it overlooked something.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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All I am asking for is transparency. This organisation gets more money than any other Irish centre in America. Questions were asked about what it did and it ended up having to apologise. I would like to see either its own report, if it is willing to share it, or the report that went to the Department. When something goes wrong the Department is supposed to report to this committee, bizarre as that may sound to the consulate and the Department. We are looking for a report and a reply to a parliamentary question is not sufficient. If it makes the Department feel more at ease, the report could be given to the Chairman to decide whether questions arise.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I will make contact with the Department personally to clarify the issue.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I ask that the committee also write to the IIIC to ask for a copy.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Allow me to check with the Department first.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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We have been kicked around on this for long enough.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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If the Senator does not mind, I will contact the Department first and I will report back to him next week. If he wishes to write to the IIIC at that stage -----

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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No, we should write to the IIIC as a committee.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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If the committee so decides, we will write to the IIIC.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I do not wish to refer the issue to the IIIC for the heck of it.

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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This is correspondence. Can we proceed with our business instead of pursuing this personalised attacks?

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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If Deputy Eric Byrne had read the minutes -----

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Excuse me, I made a ruling on how I will deal with the matter. I have finished with it and ask that we move on.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate that. The Deputy may not be aware it was in the minutes.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Senator Jim Walsh reminded me that we received apologies from Deputy Brendan Smith.