Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Lawless. The motion will be proposed by Senator Mike Kennelly and seconded by Senator Cathal Byrne. The debate will follow the normal pattern of six minutes each with the proposer and seconder both sharing 16 minutes.

Mike Kennelly (Fine Gael)
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I wish to share time with Senator Byrne.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mike Kennelly (Fine Gael)
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I move:

That Seanad Éireann: acknowledges:

- the establishment of the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science;

- our long established universities across the country;

- the establishment and commencement of technological universities;

- the multiple locations across regional Ireland that now have university campuses;

- the establishment and work of our Education and Training Boards nationwide;

- the importance of our high quality higher education system to producing graduates to fulfil our economic and societal needs;

notes:

- student accommodation delivered by universities and private developments, and that which is planned;

- the Programme for Government commitments to investing and growing apprenticeships, including in the construction, retrofitting and healthcare sectors;

- the reduction in the student contribution fee by €1,000 in each of two successive budgets;

- the increased investment in the Student Assistance Fund;

- that renters’ tax credit was extended to parents who pay for student children’s rent in the case of Rent-a-Room accommodation or ‘digs’, applied retrospectively back to 2022;

- that ‘digs’ and on-campus student developments reduce pressure on the rental sector in university towns;

- that accommodation shortages are causing students to travel long distances to University;

- for the purposes of SUSI in the period 2025-2026, the maximum deduction for holiday earnings is €8,424, having been previously €7,925;

calls on Government to:

- continue to reduce the student contribution fee during its lifetime;

- ensure additional capital funding for the third-level sector under the review of the National Development Plan;

- develop a borrowing framework for technological universities and provide clear routes to allow access to capital funding for accommodation and other initiatives;

- strengthen all-island collaborations and continue to support the North South Research Programme through the Shared Island Fund;

- increase the holiday earnings deduction for SUSI for students going forward;

- enact commitments in the Programme for Government to reform the CAO, introduce a single application process for apprenticeships and to deliver a five year apprenticeships plan;

- increase funding for research and continue to fund Taighde Éireann to boost competitiveness;

- identify and develop alternative routes into further education for the more practically minded student, particularly in roles that are in high demand;

- engage with the Department of Education to explore the possibilities of rolling out practical programmes during transition year, such as Safe Pass Training, Health and Safety, Manual Handling and Driving Lessons and Theory;

- fund an equipment renewal programme across Ireland’s further and higher education institutions and laboratories to ensure staff and students can undertake cutting edge research.

Today, Fine Gael Senators are proposing a motion on a matter of deep national importance, namely, the future of our third level education system. This sector is one of the greatest levers we have to lift opportunity, drive regional development and secure Ireland's economic strength in the long term. While we have made real progress, the time for complacency is long past. Now is the time for ambition, action and delivery.

We in Fine Gael are proud of the progress made to date. The creation of the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science under our party leader, the Tánaiste, Deputy Simon Harris, was transformative. For the first time we have a Department singularly focused on education beyond school, one that sees learners not just as students but as future leaders, innovators and builders of our economy. We have backed that with commitment and action such as successive reductions in the €1,000 in student contribution fees, expanded eligibility for SUSI grants, major investment in technological universities across the country, and a new accommodation building programme that is already under way. These are tangible steps that ease pressures on students and families. That speaks volumes, in particular at a time when inflation and cost-of-living issues bite hard, but progress is not the same as completion and this entire motion aligns squarely with the commitment in the programme for Government to build an innovation-driven economy to attract global investment and to ensure Ireland remains at the forefront of discovery and enterprise.

Today, we are tabling a motion for debate in this House, calling on the Government to continue to reduce the student contribution fee during the lifetime of this Government's term. The long-term goal must be clear: cost should never be a barrier to education in this country. As a country, our ambition must be to deliver an education system that is affordable, inclusive, forward-looking and globally competitive; a system that opens college doors not just for the privileged few and that responds flexibly to the needs of a changing world.

This motion is not just timely, it is urgent, as it reflects the daily reality of thousands of students and families who are grappling with financial pressures. We commend the €1,000 reductions in the student fees to date. These cuts were not just symbolic; for many families they were lifelines that made the difference between sending their son or daughter to college and facing financial hardship. This work must continue. Fine Gael wants to see these fees reduced even more, step by step, until no capable student is denied access to education on the basis of cost. This year alone, the reduction benefited 103,000 students and families. It is vital we reduce fees.

We also call on the Government to further increase the holiday earnings disregard for SUSI for students who do summer work. This is a practical step, one that recognises a time of world turmoil and rising costs of living. These students must work to support themselves just to stay in the college system. The current level of €8,424 is very welcome, but students deserve more flexibility to work more hours, not just for the summer but over the year, without losing financial support. That is not just about fairness, it is about preparing them for life and for work. My colleagues will speak on this very important issue, which aims to protect students and benefit local economies.

One of the most urgent issues we face is student accommodation. While we welcome the building programme that is under way, we all know that demand continues to outstrip supply. Too many students are commuting long hours or are being priced out of rental options altogether due to the lack of affordable accommodation. This is a barrier to accessing education in all our regions and cities. That is the reason this motion calls on the Government to provide additional capital funding under the review of the national development plan and to put in place a borrowing framework for technological universities to access finance for student housing and campus infrastructure. It is 2025 and newly established universities should not be operating with outdated financial tools.We have seen the commencement and advancement of technological universities throughout the country and I wish to highlight the real success story that is the Munster Technological University, MTU, specifically the Kerry campus in Tralee. Technological universities are the most radical reconfiguration of the Irish higher education system in generations. MTU has more than 3,500 students and has gone from a small regional institute to a national leader in education, innovation and regional development.

In 2024, Japanese company Astellas announced a €330 million investment in a new state-of-the-art facility at the Kerry Technology Park in Tralee, which marks a transformative milestone for the Kerry region. MTU and Astellas have a long-standing partnership and this new venture further strengthens their collaboration. The proximity of the new facility to MTU north campus will facilitate a seamless integration between academia and industry.

The construction phase of the facility will generate 600 construction jobs. Once operational, the facility will create in excess of 100 highly specialised roles in engineering, science and technology. These future roles in education will lead to immediate further college accommodation. Immediate supports from the Government will ease the burden on students who will have every opportunity to study and work in Kerry. I acknowledge the Government's funding approval for 1,065 beds for students in UL, Dublin City University, Maynooth University and the University of Galway, and the good news is all have planning permission to go ahead.

Another another core focus of the motion is to call on the Government to continue extending pathways into higher education. The traditional CAO model, while valuable, cannot be the only route. While we have made progress, there is still a critical gap in how young people access and understand their options after school. For too long, our systems have reinforced the perception that university is the only legitimate path, but we know this is not true and that system is no longer fit for purpose.

That is why in the motion we call on the Government to enact the clear commitments in the programme for Government to reform the CAO system, introduce a single unified application process for apprenticeships and deliver a comprehensive five-year national apprenticeship strategy. We want apprenticeships to be placed on an equal footing and made clearly visible and accessible to students who are practically minded and career focused. Whether it is construction, healthcare, IT or green skills, we need a five-year apprenticeship strategy that is outcome driven and properly resourced. That is what will help to solve our housing crisis, address our climate targets and deliver for industry. A single application portal, integrated alongside the CAO options, would ensure students could view all available options - university degrees, further education courses and apprenticeships - in one place. That transparency would shift the conversation, showing that apprenticeships are not a fallback but rather a first choice route for many with strong practical skills and a clear career focus. I call on the Government to ensure the five-year apprenticeship strategy is properly resourced, clearly communicated and delivered in close collaboration with employers and training providers. We need strong targets and accountability, with pathways that reflect the real needs of Ireland's economy in sectors like construction, climate technology, healthcare, digital services, advanced manufacturing and more. By doing this, we will not only tackle skills shortages but build a stronger and more resilient and inclusive workforce. It is a direct investment in our economic future and social mobility for thousands of young people who are looking for a chance to earn while they learn. This is not just about reforming education; it is about transforming opportunity. Let us modernise the system to reflect the talents of our young people. Let us remove artificial barriers, expand pathways and build in Ireland where every learner can find their path and fulfil their potential.

I refer to the establishment of Taighde Éireann, a turning point for Irish science and innovation. To compete globally, we must match ambition with funding. The project is being backed by €300 million of investment in research funding. Other countries, including the United States under President Trump's Administration, have pulled back on research spending.Ireland must go the other way. If we send the message that research is a national priority, we will not just retain our best minds; we will attract more global talent. That is a direct economic opportunity for this country.

This motion reflects the next stages of reforming higher and further education. The foundations are in place, the new institutions are open and the momentum is with us. Now, let us finish the job. Let us deliver an education system that is inclusive, future-proofed and grounded in the realities of student lives. From affordability to access, from apprenticeships to academic excellence, let us back our students, institutions and Ireland's future.

Cathal Byrne (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for coming to the House. As this is our first interaction, I wish him the very best in his role over the coming term and I look forward to plenty of engagement.

The Fine Gael group of Senators has tabled this motion tonight recognising the importance of third level education for both the economy and wider society. Access to education at third level, be that through universities, our technological university or apprenticeships, will be important over the course of this Government and into the future. We recognise in this motion the establishment of the Department of higher education and also the fact that it has been retained at Cabinet level, which is something I think will be very important over the next five years. We recognise the work that was done under the Minister's predecessors, the now Tánaiste, Deputy Simon Harris, and also the Minister, Deputy Patrick O'Donovan, around a number of key areas. Establishing a new Department is never straightforward, particularly when it involves the separation and clear removal of powers from what was previously the Department of Education into a new, laser-like and focused Department of higher education. We recognise that in this motion.

Specifically, we have ten requests, and my colleagues are going to delve more into the detail of each individual one. I specifically want to highlight a number of them. Over the past two budgets, we have seen a clear reduction in the student contribution fee for third level students. In budget 2024, we saw a reduction of €1,000 that, when coupled with a one-off cost-of-living grant, meant a reduction of €1,500 for an ordinary student attending third level university. In budget 2024, that was retained, and I would encourage the Minister to seek the funding to secure a further reduction. There cannot be a situation where we see the €3,000 contribution, which was €2,000 for the previous two years, restored to €3,000. High costs to accessing education act as a barrier, and no student should have to consider whether to attend third level this year or delay for a year owing to costs. That must be a priority for the Minister and his Department over the coming term, and I would encourage him to seek that funding and commit to reducing and abolishing the student contribution fee for third level education over the course of this term.

Another area my colleagues are going to highlight is increasing the holiday earnings deduction for student grants. If a student takes up part-time employment to gain life skills and experience and enters the workforce, contributing in a meaningful way to our economy, it should never be the case that the student has to make a choice between working that extra shift or the available overtime hours and having student grants. We recognise the work that has been done by the Minister's predecessors on this, and we are calling for that holiday deduction to be increased. It was previously set at €7,925 and has now been increased to €8,424. We are calling on the Minister to increase that further to ensure that the SUSI grants to students at third level remain accessible to all and that the forced choice between working overtime and taking up the grant does not apply.

My colleagues are also going to highlight the need for additional capital funding for the third level sector, including allowing a borrowing framework to allow our third level technological universities to have clear access to capital funding for student accommodation and other initiatives.I highlight the work done in my county of Wexford in establishing the South East Technological University, SETU. I commend the Department on the progress made in that area to date. We are seeking our own purpose-built, designated campus in Wexford. While great work is done day in and day out on the St. Peter's College campus, the site is not suitable for the level of ambition SETU has for Wexford. As the Minister is aware, there is a legal dispute surrounding the compulsory purchase order, CPO, of the site in question. His departmental colleague with responsibility for apprenticeship programmes, the Minister of State, Deputy Harkin, previously gave clarity on that issue in the Chamber. A business case is being given ongoing consideration by the Higher Education Authority, HEA, regarding the viability of a purpose-built, designated university campus for the south east at the Wexford location. I encourage the pushing forward of that case.

I commend the motion to the House and urge Members to support it. My Fine Gael colleagues will make further comment on it as the debate proceeds.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Will the Senator confirm that he is seconding the motion?

Cathal Byrne (Fine Gael)
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Yes, I second the motion.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome to the Gallery visitors from the Arbour Hill education centre, who are guests of Deputy Jen Cummins. I was at Arbour Hill this morning. They are most welcome to Seanad Éireann. The next speaker is an Seanadóir McCarthy, who is sharing time with Senator Clonan.

Aubrey McCarthy (Independent)
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I thank the Minister for being here today for our debate on higher education. People often mention Nelson Mandela's comment that education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world. Ireland's progress is built on the foundation of education. In debating the tariffs situation recently, the Tánaiste stated that one of the main reasons US companies come to Ireland is our educational prowess. We must ensure the sector is well funded, accessible and forward thinking. Investment in education for the next generation of leaders is absolutely of the utmost importance. We must protect the situation for individuals who will shape policy, drive economic growth, lead communities and perhaps sit in this House. Without proper funding, we risk limiting the opportunities for the brightest minds to develop their potential. As I know personally, education can be the greatest equaliser. It is a force that empowers individuals and can transform lives. It offers hope where there once was despair, and opportunities where barriers once stood firm.

I highlight a programme that has embodied that very principle by offering educational pathways to those who have faced the darkness of addiction and homelessness. For almost a decade, since 2016, Tiglin, a charity I cofounded, has worked with Springboard and with SETU, which my colleague mentioned, through its faculty of lifelong learning. We have developed educational packages that provide service users with the skills and confidence necessary to reintegrate into society. These courses go way beyond academic learning to serve as stepping stones towards independent employment and a renewed sense of purpose. I went to the Tánaiste, who was then the Minister for higher education, to present my vision for creating an educational pathway for people accessing Tiglin's Lighthouse Homeless Café. Two of our participants were the Bobinac twins, of whom the Minister is aware. These guys had no formal education when they started. Last month, I attended their graduations at Dublin City University and Maynooth University, respectively, from their second masters degrees. This showed me that education is transformational.

In the past year, I have had 114 people from a cohort of homelessness and addiction doing our programme up to master's degree level. Today, the programme stands at a fork in the road, with its funding due to be cut off at the end of this year. Without renewal, we risk halting progress and opportunities for the people who need them most.A society is only as a strong as its commitment to inclusion. To turn away from this programme would mean turning our backs on the people striving to build a better future. I urge the Minister, who is a good Kildare man, to ensure this programme is funded into the future.

I welcome today's motion by my Fine Gael colleagues. I urge Senators to advocate for continued support in the higher education sector. It is not just about knowledge; it is about dignity, community and second chances.

Tom Clonan (Independent)
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I thank Senator McCarthy for sharing time. I commend my colleagues on this motion and thank them for it. Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire agus déanaim comhghairdeas leis on his appointment to this portfolio. It was mentioned that the Department of further and higher education can be transformational. That is the case.

I have two asks for the Minister in the brief time I have. During the tenure of the Minister's predecessor, the Tánaiste, Deputy Harris, an anomaly came to light when my son, who is a wheelchair user and partially sighted, applied in good faith through the Central Applications Office system for a course in Dublin Business School which he was offered through the CAO system. We discovered, however, that the funding that is made available for disabled students through the Higher Education Authority was not payable to a privately funded college. This was a terrible injustice. It meant that Eoghan would not have been able to pursue his studies. We prevailed upon the then Minister, Deputy Harris, at the time and he, the assistant secretary general and the officials in the Department of further and higher education and officials in the Higher Education Authority changed the rules in a 48-hour period so that all students attending third level colleges, irrespective of their funding model, would receive the supports they need. That was transformational and the then Minister was able to do that through the good offices of his officials within 48 hours.

Funding should follow the student, not the institution. We have an anomalous situation where the university or college hires the personal assistants and becomes their employer. The budget should go to the student who should decide who their personal assistants are. The current position leads to a number of unfair situations where students like my son, who is 23 years old, has to submit a study plan for the summer in order for the college to assign those hours as a third party. That is infantilising and unfair. My son would be the only student in the university who has to submit a study plan and it is because he is disabled. That could be easily remedied and I ask the Minister to do so.

As a university Senator, I have received a number of representations from disabled students. There is a bit of unevenness in the way access officers are treating disabled students. They are not quite in loco parentis in secondary school. If they showed a little emotional intelligence and treated disabled students in good faith, as opposed to in a legalistic manner, it would help them on the third level pathway. I do not know if it is possible to hold a seminar or some sort of meeting of diversity, inclusion and equality officers to encourage them to be more empathetic, a little more emotionally intelligent and psychologically literate when it comes to disabled students. I thank the Cathaoirleach for his patience.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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The Senator's last lines are good advice for anybody.

Dee Ryan (Fianna Fail)
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I propose to share time with Senator Curley.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Dee Ryan (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister and thank him for joining us in the Chamber and giving us his time to discuss this important topic. I thank our colleagues in Fine Gael for bringing forward this motion and giving us the space to share our concerns, ambitions and desires for this important sector that the Minister has taken charge of. I wish him well with his work. It is important not just to the lives of our young people but to the economic and social health of our country.

I acknowledge the progress made under the previous Government. It was my party leader, the Taoiseach, Deputy Martin, who included in the Fianna Fáil general election manifesto in 2020 a recommendation to separate higher education from education to give it its own focus and unique time, recognising the need for a dedicated focus on this crucial area. Since then, we have seen improvements in student grants over successive budgets. We have also seen an expansion of apprenticeships and a stronger focus on lifelong learning. I wish the Minister well in his work, particularly in light of the current geopolitical uncertainty and the as-yet-unquantified economic impact that tariffs may have on us. Now more than ever, we need to double down and put further investment into both higher education and the institutions that deliver it. To use the Minister's words, now is the time to skill, baby, skill.

I am very fortunate to be from Limerick, which has a vibrant educational sector. We have multiple institutes of higher education. We have two universities, namely the University of Limerick, UL, and the Technological University of the Shannon, TUS. We have the acclaimed Limerick School of Art and Design, the Limerick College of Further Education and Griffith College. In addition, multiple courses and apprenticeships are supported by the Limerick and Clare Education and Training Board. That is even before I mention the dozens of Skillnets across Limerick and the mid-west that are channelling funding directly into the SME sector across the region. We have more than 25,000 full-time students in Limerick alone, and thousands more studying in a part-time or evening capacity.

Education is a vibrant sector and is a big employer of academics, administrative workers. It is also a critical component of the economic model in the region. I know from working with big companies across the region that our pipeline of skilled workers is a critical component in their decisions to locate in the mid-west. We have a collaborative approach in Limerick that involves UL, TUS and the Limerick and Clare ETB working closely with employers to design courses that are aligned with jobs. We develop skills specifically for companies in the advanced manufacturing sector, the medtech sector, pharma and artificial intelligence and we design and deliver accredited courses for An Garda Síochána. This collaborative model is really working in Limerick. Some focus and attention should be given to see whether there are learnings from our experience in Limerick that could be replicated in other parts of the country.

Just like other parts of the country, however, the rising cost of education is a huge pressure for young people and families. I acknowledge the reductions in student contribution fees in recent budgets - these were very welcome - and the commitment in the programme for Government to continue to reduce the student contribution fees over the lifetime of the Government. The Minister might give us an update on that. I am keen to hear the work that he and his Department are doing in achieving that objective. I ask that he give due consideration in that work to families with more than one child or dependant in full-time education. I am looking to the future and, like many people of my generation, I am hoping to have multiple members of my household in full-time education at the same time. That is going to place a huge financial strain on many families.

The cost of education is not just about tuition. Travel costs are a big factor. Over the course of the election campaign and in my engagements with students at the doors and with Ronan Cahill, president of the students' union at UL, I heard an awful lot about the growing number of students who are commuting to college due to the shortage of affordable accommodation. On a daily basis, people travel to Limerick from Galway and south Kerry. I even heard about a student who commutes from Dublin daily. I worry for those students. I worry about the impact that this is having on the enjoyment of their college experience, about whether it is sustainable for them and about the fact that it might have an impact in terms of their propensity to drop out. I look forward to an update from the Minister on the work he is doing on this crucial issue of a lack of affordable accommodation for students.

Shane Curley (Fianna Fail)
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Go raibh maith agat an tAire as ucht bheith anseo. Every time I have liaised with the Minister, the Department or his staff, I have been heartened by how committed they are to the apprenticeship model, which is vital if we want to deliver housing and other vital infrastructure in a timely fashion. If we want a future-ready workforce, we need a future-ready education system. I have been speaking with the TUI, whose nomination to the Seanad I am thankful for. It is dealing with critical backlogs in the apprenticeship model, particularly in phases four and six, which are dealt with by the TUs, which the TUI represents. One very cost-effective recommendation the TUI has made is that, if a third phase of apprentices was brought in during phases four and six, it would clear the backlog in one go. It would not require any permanent commitment to funding from current spending for staff. It would not require any extra hiring. It would be a simple one-off, extra overtime payment to tutors who deliver these phases in order to clear the backlog. If we are serious about delivering housing and other infrastructure we need in this country, it is something we need to address in a critical fashion.

Pauline Tully (Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the Minister. I am delighted to have this opportunity to discuss a number of issues mentioned in this comprehensive motion, the first being apprenticeships. We know there is a huge need for apprenticeships, particularly in the construction sector. People tell me they cannot get a plumber for love nor money. Another woman told me her roof was damaged during Storm Éowyn and it was only two weeks ago she was able to get someone to come to repair it. We need to do everything we can to encourage as many people as possible to go into apprenticeships and to broaden apprenticeships to other areas as well. Some of this has already happened and that is welcome.

Many people are dropping out of apprenticeships. We need to look at why they are not completing their courses. Maybe it is partly because apprenticeships are taking longer than the four years they are supposed to due to backlogs in the system. There has been some investment in this area but there are still hold-ups and apprenticeships are taking longer. This combines with the very low rate of pay. I spoke to a man at the weekend who told me his son, after four years of doing something else, decided to enter an apprenticeship at the age of 22 and started off at €6.50 per hour. That is below the minimum wage for an under-18, never mind the minimum wage in general. His son is now in his second year and earning €8 per hour. That is not sustainable going forward for a young man at the age of 23, or if we want to encourage older people to enter apprenticeship programmes who have spouses and families they have to support as well. We need to examine the pay rate and at the time it is taking to complete an apprenticeship. I also advocate that any fees for apprenticeships be scrapped because we need to encourage as many people as possible to become apprentices in the different trades.

We need to encourage as many people as possible to enter higher and further education. For that to happen, we need equality of access. We still have quite high fees in Ireland compared with other countries in the EU. There was a reduction in fees during the past two years, which was welcome, but I am hearing on the grapevine that that will not be the case going into the next term. That is regrettable. We need to see a phasing out of fees, even by €500 per year over the term of the Government until they are reduced completely.

The SUSI grant system needs to be reviewed and reformed. The grant is based on gross income but it should be based on net income. Mortgage payments, the very high rents people are paying in particular and other essential expenditure should be taken into account when looking at eligibility.

Mature students - students aged over 23 - may have been living independently but due to the housing crisis are being forced to go back to live with their parents. If they decide to take on a new course or change profession, they are being denied the SUSI grant because their parents' income is being taken into account. That should not be happening. We need to take into account that people are being forced to live at home with their parents because there are no other options available to them.

The fact SUSI grants cannot be accessed for part-time courses means that disabled people, those who suffer from chronic pain and some autistic students who would not cope with a college environment and want to study online are deemed ineligible to apply for a SUSI grant. Will the Minister examine that to ensure the SUSI application process is much more inclusive and encourages as many people as possible to pursue a third level course? Regarding students who work outside of holiday time, many do not realise that their income is used as an assessment against SUSI grants. I felt really sorry for one student. She had done her leaving certificate and qualified for a place in college, but because her parents could not afford it - even with the SUSI grant, which they were eligible for - she decided to defer for a year, work for that year and save up her money so she would then be able to take on the course with the grant and get herself through the college. However, she found then she was not eligible for SUSI because of her income when it was combined with that of her parents. We need more information on that for students so they know exactly whether they will or will not qualify.

We also need a huge investment in student accommodation. Students are not able to live in the vicinity of the college, so they are not enjoying the whole experience of being a third level student. They are being forced to commute long distances, which is exhausting and is leading to many of them dropping out because they are not able to continue the course. Some developers who secured planning permission to build student accommodation made it so expensive that no student could possibly afford it. They apply for and are given permission for a change of use. That is something else that needs to be addressed so that we can ensure that student accommodation is in the areas students need it, it is affordable and it cannot be changed for alternative use, which many are trying to do.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Senators Harmon and Cosgrove are sharing time. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Nessa Cosgrove (Labour)
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I commend the motion. I am delighted we are having this discussion. Where I live in Sligo, the Atlantic Technological University, ATU, is fantastic. It has become a technical university. It is a huge investment into the area and we are all very proud of it.

On transport infrastructure, I raise the issue of connectivity between all the ATU campuses - Galway, Mayo, Sligo and Donegal. If the western rail corridor was opened up, it would make a massive difference. In all the campuses, particularly in Sligo, there is a huge problem with student accommodation. I have also raised in the House the need to have an early commuter train from Longford to Sligo. That would alleviate the problem to some extent.

I am delighted to hear there is a move towards reducing third level fees. My colleague in the Labour Party, Niamh Bhreathnach, abolished fees in 1995. That had a big, long-term effect of getting more people access to third level education.

I take this opportunity to talk about the further education and training sector. It is a vast and diverse sector with many strings to its bow, and it can often be overlooked when discussing higher education. Many small towns have further education colleges which provide access to education for huge numbers of people who might otherwise not have an opportunity to gain further qualifications. It would be impossible for me to list all the courses. In my constituency, there are courses offered from level 5 to level 6, for example, pre-nursing, physiotherapy, health skills, education and complementary therapies. These are an introduction for people who might not have felt supported in school and that school was not for them. It is a pathway that might lead them to continue on their education journey. Ballyshannon, Collooney, Mohill, Drumshanbo and Manorhamilton are all small towns that have outreach for further education centres. They are going to equip many entrepreneurs who will stay in area and provide sustainable wealth that our future should be built on within rural Ireland.

Coming from a youth work background, I can see the pathway Youthreach and community training centres create. They provide a lifeline for many young people who might otherwise not get a meaningful qualification. This holistic-based learning, which is very much target-based learning for young people, addresses their needs with life skills and serves as a pathway to move people further to traineeships and apprenticeships.

Senator Tully and my colleague, Deputy Marie Sherlock, have raised the issue of apprenticeship pay. I encourage Members to support the inclusion of apprenticeships in the minimum wage Bill. We know there is a shortage of apprentices. I know from working in Sligo training centre that there is a wrap-around approach to students. Their learning is tailored and they are with adult education tutors who make sure they are supported in every aspect of their learning needs. This brings me to the point that we need to recognise adult education tutors. I am aware that there have been demonstrations outside Leinster House in this regard. Three thousand tutors across the country are not being recognised with fair and equal employment rights by comparison with teachers working in secondary schools. The tutors are teachers. They are employed, registered with the Teaching Council and have the requisite qualifications. They are recognised as teachers but are not being paid as teachers. Many adult education tutors are not paid when they are not teaching, leaving them dependent upon social welfare payments during the college holidays. That is not fair and does not make sense. The new pay scale for tutors that the Government announced last year has turned out not to be the solution. In fact, it has deepened the unfairness. The new pay scale fails to take prior experience into account and assumes 52 weeks of work per year. Due to ETB centre closures, there are a few tutors who work for the full year. They mostly work a maximum of 37 weeks, which means they have to sign on.

Adult education is a necessity. The FET sector is often overlooked. I am wondering whether it could be included as part of the National Training Fund. I know the money has been unlocked, but can this area of tutor pay be included?

Laura Harmon (Labour)
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I welcome the Minister and look forward to engaging with him in respect of his brief. I congratulate him. It is great to see the work he has been doing so far.

I want to raise a couple of issues briefly, the first being student housing. Funding really needs to be unlocked for the technological university sector. It needs to be allowed to borrow money to purchase and build purpose-built student accommodation. Also, we need to have a proper student housing strategy. I believe one is due to be finished in quarter 2 of this year. We will welcome seeing it when published. It is urgently needed.

On apprenticeships, scrapping the fees would certainly be welcome, as would ensuring apprentices have a living wage, because we need to keep people in apprenticeships and in the sector. With regard to targeting specific skills deficits, unfortunately we are exporting many teachers to places such as Dubai. We need to keep them here.

We need to consider other skill sets, including in construction. There are radiography machines in Cork that are not being used because there are no staff to operate them. Therefore, radiology is another area that needs to be focused on.

The higher education sector has identified that there was previously an annual funding deficit of €307 million. How has that been bridged? Where are we in that regard?

Addressing consent and tackling sexual violence on campuses have been a genuine success. Over the past decade, in particular, we have had the likes of the Bystander Intervention programme in UCC, spearheaded by Louise Crowley. It has been really successful.

Another area that could be examined in terms of third level education is racism. A survey by the Irish Council for International Students found that 63% of international students had either experienced or witnessed racism. Using the model of the consent programmes in racism training would be really impactful.

It is really alarming that Ireland has the lowest disability employment rate in the European Union. We are 20% behind our European counterparts. Much of this has to do with education and training.

I look forward to engaging further with the Minister and congratulate him on his brief.

Gareth Scahill (Fine Gael)
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I propose to share my time with Senator Kyne.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Gareth Scahill (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Cathaoirleach. The Minister is very welcome.

I welcome the motion and the focus it brings to higher education. The area I would like to highlight is the commitment in the programme for Government to investing in and growing our apprenticeships, particularly in construction, retrofitting and healthcare. I mentioned last week the tertiary access route to general nursing, which is starting in the Galway and Roscommon ETB in Castlerea, County Roscommon. There need to be more programmes like that giving access.

We often hear about proposals that do not make a strong enough business case for further education and training. Let me put it plainly: the growth and availability of apprenticeships are not just nice to have; they are essential.They are directly linked to tackling the housing crisis, meeting our 2030 climate targets and promoting balanced regional and economic development. If somebody asked me to make a business case for apprenticeships, I would ask them how quickly they can get builders, electricians or plumbers right now. Qualified tradespeople are in such high demand that they can pick and choose the jobs they want. For example, on retrofitting, like many colleagues across this House, I have helped people apply for the warmer homes scheme and similar supports. SEAI data shows the average wait time for the scheme in 2023 was 20 months and in 2024 it was 17 months. In my home county, it is over 18 months, which is a wait of a year and a half during a period of rising energy costs for a scheme designed to help people.

During the debate on forestry last week, I spoke about the ambitious plan to grow our national forestry cover. Who will maintain the new forestry, however? We need arborists. This is a clear example of how current policy is creating a future skills need. We need to act now. Now is the time to invest in our future and that of our children. In that context, we need to identify the skills gaps that exist and target the regions where provision is lacking. It is not just about education spending; it is about smart investment.

Our apprenticeship options and facilities need to be more dynamic and responsive. The slogan on the SOLAS web page today is: "FET [further education and training] is for everyone, is available in every community and offers a pathway to take you as far as you want to go." We need to look at ourselves and ask if we are delivering these opportunities in every community for every learner. Let us make sure this pathway is clear, accessible and supported for every learner in every corner of the country.

I acknowledge what Senator Cosgrove said about improving the links between our universities. The N61 linking ATU in Sligo to TUS in Athlone is a vital piece of infrastructure that is needed and that would help reduce costs for students. It should be built into all of that. I take the opportunity to invite the Minister to come down to Roscommon in the very near future in order that I can show him the opportunities we have for apprenticeships.

Seán Kyne (Fine Gael)
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The Minister is welcome. He is the third custodian of this Department at Cabinet level since its formation. I wish him well in the years ahead.

There has been considerable innovation in recent years, including the creation of the technological universities which have worked very well. We now need to look at the future investment in those, including the borrowing framework for student accommodation within our technological universities. This is a very important commitment in the programme for Government, and I hope it will be fast-tracked.

There has been some correspondence with the Minister about the appointment of professors in technological universities. These universities have the opportunity to keep and employ the best minds in their sectors and perhaps even to have joint professorships with some universities.

Our universities do excellent work. They produce top-quality graduates, the foundation of our knowledge economy. Innovation hubs, such as the CÚRAM medical devices hub in Galway, add excellence to the economy across many fields. The contribution of the third level sector has been recognised by successive Governments. We have seen greater investment and we need more for buildings and laboratories which in some cases have antiquated equipment. The motion calls for an investment programme for equipment within laboratories and across our university sector.

A reduction in the student contribution fee forms part of the motion and is mentioned in the programme for Government. This is to make third level education more accessible.

Is there a case to be made for not including students' earnings during the summer period? In other words, allowing people to work as they need rather than it being a case of the number of hours they work pushing them over the limit. By working those extra hours, and if their parents may have earned a little more that year in overtime payments, the combination puts them over the limit, leading to stress, hassle and everything else. Is there a case to be made for abolishing the system of recognising the students' contribution? That would also be a win-win for businesses throughout the country that are looking for staff. I ask the Minister to engage and do some research on that issue.

My colleague Senator Scahill spoke here previously about transition year in schools. I know it is not the responsibility of the Minister present, but there is a connection to what can be done in transition year for the benefit of both the third level sector and apprenticeships.Perhaps it is worth exploring that with the Minister for Education and Youth and her Department. We have mentioned issues like safe pass training, health and safety, manual handling, driving lessons and driving theory. A collaboration between the two Departments on transition year could be considered. I ask the Minister to do so.

Gerard Craughwell (Independent)
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The Minister is welcome to the House. It was good to see him in Wexford last week addressing my former trade union. He got out alive, which has to say something for him.

I was delighted to hear my colleague from Limerick speak about the education that was available there. I am a second-chance learner myself, and it was Limerick Senior College that opened the door for me to a degree from the London School of Economics and to a postgraduate qualification from the University of Limerick. I have a lot of skin in the game. I spent 23 years as a teacher in further education, and for most of that time, my colleagues and I spent our time looking for a Minister that would have responsibility for further and higher education. Thankfully, we now have one.

Senators have spoken about how further education opens the door for people and gives them second chances. In my time in Dún Laoghaire, I never turned a student away. If a student turned up to start a course, that student got a place. I had 23 wonderful years in Dún Laoghaire, rising to the position of president of the Teachers Union of Ireland before I came to the Seanad. It is that I want to turn to now.

This establishment prides itself on vocational panels, and the vocational people who come to this House bring the expertise of their particular qualifications, except if they are a teacher or lecturer in a technological university. If someone comes to this House as a teacher or a lecturer in a technological university, that person is banned from having a jobshare. Every Member of this House can be a farmer, barrister, doctor or anything he or she wants and can jobshare. Senators can work outside of Seanad hours, as the Seanad is regarded as a part-time job. I am not sure whether the Minister is aware of that or not. However, teachers and lecturers cannot jobshare. When I came to this House, it cost me €10,000 a year to take my seat. It would cost a lecturer from a technological university €30,000 a year. Not only that, but lecturers would be hit with the single pension Act and lose out on a pension from their time here. It is discouraging people with the vocational expertise as teachers to come to this House. That statutory instrument was introduced in a panic in 2012, as the then Government tried to save money somewhere along the line. The bottom line on this is it is unconstitutional. I should have taken a case at the time but I did not. The Government is preventing people with the vocational expertise as teachers from seeking a seat in the Seanad.

We heard wonderful speeches today from people about apprenticeships, further education and training, and about the benefits they brought to society, but there are very few people in this establishment who work in or have come here from the profession. We need to look at that. We either put a ban on everybody having a second occupation or we put a ban on nobody having a second occupation. What was done was done wrong, and in a hurry. It did not think things out carefully, and further education in particular has suffered as a result. People like me cannot bring their life experience to the place. Younger people certainly could not take a hit in salary like I did. I was fortunate enough that I was a rather elder lemon when I came here and close to the departure lounge at that stage of my life, so it did not bother me, but younger people could not give up the salary. The Minister needs to look at this again. I do not have a problem with not allowing people to teach, but if the Government is not going to let them teach, then it must pay them the salary they would have had if they remained teaching. It would be the fair and decent thing to do. I ask that the Minister bring that back to his Cabinet colleagues and have a look at it.

Linda Nelson Murray (Fine Gael)
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The Minister, Deputy Lawless is very welcome.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Is Senator Murray sharing time with Senator Noel O’Donovan?

Linda Nelson Murray (Fine Gael)
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I am.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Linda Nelson Murray (Fine Gael)
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I very much welcome this motion. Coming from a really hard-working family, there was no way I was going to get away with not getting out to work early, combined, of course, with my studies. I worked all through secondary school, taking a break in my leaving cert year, and I then went back out again throughout college. It was not a huge amount of work but it was one or two days, particularly at weekends. This was really helpful for living expenses, as I was away from home, and, of course, for the odd social night out, which is all part of college time.

Presently, if your course is full time and you worked and studied last year, SUSI can deduct a portion of your income earned outside of term time to improve your rate of grant, and for this year it is €8,424. Known as holiday earnings, this deduction will apply to income earned during the Easter, summer and Christmas holidays. This does not make any sense. What about your weekend work? As an owner of a small business that hires many students - we have 25 employees - we see more and more staff, especially those in secondary school who are moving on to college, worried about working any more than one day a week, or even working a full day, as it will affect their chances of getting a SUSI grant.

I like to think that each of us here in the Chamber, particularly in the Fine Gael Party, promote hard work and instil in our young people that getting up and going to work is a good thing to do. Because we have a very low threshold for SUSI, however, this stops people from working the hours they may choose to work. The minimum wage for a 19-year-old is on average €12.15 per hour. If they work two weeks at Easter, two weeks at Christmas and eight weeks in the summer, it leaves them in a position where they can only work eight hours a day for the rest of the year. That means those who come to us can only do a Saturday or Sunday; they cannot do Saturday and Sunday. It does not make any sense.

I ask that we increase to €12,000 the threshold for students working. This will allow them to work two days per week, or perhaps a couple of evenings, without it impacting their SUSI grant. Why are we not encouraging younger people into the workforce in a hybrid approach of working and studying and helping their parents with the costs of going into further education?

Noel O'Donovan (Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister to the Chamber and wish him well in his endeavours in the years ahead. I raise the issue of student accommodation and the shortages thereof. It has been mentioned a few times by my colleagues here. There is no denying we have major issues when it comes to a lack of housing, which is also creating significant issues with homelessness, but the lack of housing is also having a serious contagion effect for students. The lack of student accommodation is taking away the opportunity of studying for students as well as placing a heavy financial burden on the students and their families, impacting their student life experience and mental health.

I think back to my own days of college life in UCC and how fortunate I was to live in a house with many people who I still call friends. We were still teenagers setting off on our college journey, but by living together, cooking, socialising and dealing with the many social issues we came across in our lives, we grew as individuals and prepared ourselves for life ahead. Accommodation is much more than just a roof. Nowadays, there are many issues students face when they are struggling with their accommodation. One issue among many is the cost of renting and the financial stress that falls on students due to unaffordable living costs.

I looked at some statistics in preparation for the debate today and, according to dublin.ie, the average cost of accommodation in the city centre at the moment for a one bedroom apartment is €1,700. In Cork city, the rent for students can go up as high as €7,000 or more for shared accommodation in one academic year. These costs are really stopping people from entering college. For a lot of students, it is simply not possible for them to afford the high costs of student rent. Many students try to balance work and study to afford the rent, and the constant pressure of being in financial trouble can heavily impact the quality of a student's life and mental health.

There are also students who have to commute to college daily because they can neither afford nor find housing. I spoke to a college student recently in my own area of Castletownbere who for two years had to travel to UCC. Not to mind the cost of fuel for travelling to UCC, that student had to stay in their car a number of nights during their college years. That is simply not acceptable. As some Senators have mentioned here today, a pressing matter facing so many is family income being too large to meet the threshold. We need to fix that system. Students are losing valuable time commuting to and from college when the distances are so long. They are forced to reduce the hours they can dedicate to their studies and assignments because they have to spend so long travelling.

I welcome the commitments in the programme for Government to investing in affordable student accommodation. We need the required legislative changes to allow technological universities to borrow more money to build and purchase student accommodation. Mention has been made of, and we need to see the publication of, the new strategic plan for student accommodation and finally commit to providing the number of student beds needed to meet the shortfall.

Conor Murphy (Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the Minister. I had the opportunity to hear him speak at Queen's University Belfast a number of weeks ago. I welcome his positive attitude in dealing with my former colleagues in the Department for the Economy and the current Minister, Caoimhe Archibald. I welcome the motion put before us today. One area it mentions is greater collaboration between North and South. The Minister will understand the importance of that. When I was a younger person, which is a long time ago, it was much easier. There was much more interchange of students going North to South and South to North. Certainly, the number of people from the North who went to colleges in Dublin was a significant percentage of the population. That number has reduced over, maybe, the past two generations. Not having that exchange and ability is to the detriment of all students and to the island generally. A lot of that is down to bureaucratic changes that have created more barriers, of which I am sure the Minister is aware. This will require, as the Minister has already committed to, both Departments, North and South, working together, the universities and colleges working together and the admissions bodies working together to try to reduce some of those barriers.

The review of A-level grade equivalencies undertaken by the Government has been welcome. Universities are beginning to apply that in the next academic year, which will lead to significant opportunity. Previously, those grades were not assessed in the same way, which led to differentials in the points awarded and the ability to access courses. This review places students throughout the island on a more equal footing. That is a benefit to all academic institutions across the island, both North and South.

There has been some progress on financial supports. Postgraduate students from the North studying in the South have been able to access the tuition fee loan, which improves their opportunities to access all of the universities and colleges on the island. There is work ongoing with the Students Loan Company in the North to make a similar loan available to students from the North studying part time undergraduate courses in the South. That will alleviate some of the financial barriers which undoubtedly exist, and which others have mentioned, in the context of student hardship, the ability to access and stay in courses and to survive with the cost-of-living crisis that continues to bedevil us.

With regard to access to doctoral study in the North, following recent changes to the postgraduate award scheme, PhD students from the South of Ireland will be eligible to receive a full stipend as well as the payment of tuition fees under the scheme. Previously, they were eligible for fee support only. That has been important. There has been significant progress in this regard. I hope we will see the numbers and the benefit from that in the next academic year and in the years to follow.

Of course, engagement between CAO and UCAS will be critical in maintaining that momentum and in opening further discussions on admissions dates and clearing processes in order that students of all ages are provided with clear guidance and support at the earliest possible opportunity to enable them to make informed choices about the administration and admission processes.

I am sure the Minister is aware, from conversations with colleagues on the other side of the Border, of the financial constraints under which the Department for the Economy is operating and the limitations on providing student places on what is known as the maximum aggregate student number, MASN, cap. This cap relates to the number of students who can be admitted to universities without hiking tuition fees. There is a role for discussion between the Minister's own Department and the universities about the category into which students coming from the South fall. At the moment, they are competing with students from the North for places within the MASN cap system. There is an opportunity to look at placing them outside of that. That would create more revenue for universities in the North, given the financial constraints under which they operate, and create more opportunities for students from the South to go forward.

I very much welcome the continued commitment to Magee campus and its expansion in Derry. I attended the first intake of the medical school. There were a number of students from the South on that postgraduate medical course, who, in turn, will return back to the health service in the South to practise when qualified. The benefits for the island are enormous. I look forward to continued engagement in this regard. There has been a lot of positive work done by both Departments, North and South, and I welcome the Minister's commitment to continue in that vein. More work needs to be done and I look forward to engaging with the Minister to ensure we can progress that as smoothly as possible.

Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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I understand Senators Murphy, Lynch and Ní Chuilinn are sharing time. Is that agreed? Agreed.

PJ Murphy (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for coming to the Seanad. I am happy to fully support the motion introduced by my colleagues, Senators Kennelly and Cathal Byrne.

As someone who has worked on the ground for many years in both the construction and agricultural sectors, I am very much encouraged by the inclusion in the motion of the promotion of driver education at secondary school. The vast majority of young people who live in rural Ireland have no alternative to driving as a means of getting to work and college. In the state of Illinois, USA, it is mandatory for all public high schools to offer driver education as part of the curriculum. A comprehensive two-year module, in which both theory classes and practical lessons behind the wheel are offered, culminates in a theory and practical exam similar to the driver theory test and driving test in this country. Given the importance of driving as a life skill, the achievement of a full licence should carry the same 100-point weighting as any other leaving certificate subject.

As the Fine Gael spokesperson on housing in the Seanad, I will touch on the current lack of student accommodation. Purpose-built student accommodation is the single quickest way of taking pressure off the housing situation in this State. Student accommodation can be delivered quickly and economically. Every time we provide a student housing place, we open up a space in the private rental market that would otherwise be occupied by a student.

As the Minister well knows, we have a huge private international education sector, Private schools profit greatly from fee-paying international English language students. These students, or cash cows as they may well be for the private profit-making educational companies, contribute greatly to the pressures on the private housing rental market. I suggest that we look closely at the implementation of a similar system as that in place at the Shawnee State University in Ohio, USA, where all international students are required to be housed in purpose-built student accommodation provided by the educational body in which they are enrolled.

I will speak about the earning restrictions for students in receipt of a SUSI payment. In terms of the means test for the payment, the student's own income is taken into account along with the income of the parents as opposed to the income of the parents only. This is a great pity and disincentivises hardworking students with a good work ethic from working as many hours as possible. At such a young age, when a young person's personality is developing, work should be encouraged to the maximum with the greatest possible reward and should certainly not be a reason for financial penalisation by the State.

Eileen Lynch (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for being here to discuss this vital motion, which I fully support. I wish to focus on the call on the Government to prioritise and fund a national equipment renewal programme across Ireland's further and higher education institutions.

As a nation we have long prided ourselves on being a knowledge economy and placing innovation, research and education at the heart of national development. This cannot continue to be the case if our students and researchers are working with equipment that is outdated and sometimes unfit for purpose. In my alma mater, University College Cork, exceptional work is being carried out in the Environmental Research Institute. The institute is leading critical research on climate change adaptation and biodiversity loss. However, many of its laboratories rely on analytical equipment that is more than 15 years old. Similarly, the Munster Technological University's Nimbus Research Centre, which is a national leader in smart technologies, is facing certain constraints due to ageing equipment. These are not just local losses but national missed prospects. Investment in equipment renewal is a strategic investment in our future. A modern equipment base is essential to support our growing innovation economy, attract and retain global talent and ensure our graduates are industry-ready. Without it, I believe we risk falling behind in vital areas like renewable energy, AI, biotechnology and sustainable agriculture. We currently have a significant opportunity in Ireland. Our participation in Horizon Europe and increased international collaboration means the lack of modern infrastructure puts our researchers at a disadvantage before a project begins. I strongly believe we must consult institutional leaders to set up the funding and we should have a dedicated stream for institutions outside Dublin, recognising the extraordinary research potential across our regions, particularly in Cork. My apologies, Chair, and I thank the Minister.

Evanne Ní Chuilinn (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for coming in. I know he has been listening keenly. I support the motion. We have heard a lot in recent days. It was great to see Members wearing shorts to acknowledge the struggle by the camogie players. That is about listening to players. I wanted to make sure we are listening to young people in this debate. It is vital we do not forget the voice of students and young people. Youth organisations have long been campaigning for a reduction in the cost of education. The Government has committed to continuing to reduce contribution fees, expand additional supports for students such as placement grants for students on mandatory placements, and increase financial supports for postgraduates to ease the financial burden on students. It can be alarming for students when they hear the Minister is seemingly considering the opposite, that is, abandoning the current reductions in contribution fees that are in place and which serve as an essential lifeline for struggling students.

We need to ensure the students' voices are not forgotten in this debate. Many youth organisations, like the National Youth Council of Ireland, the Union of Students in Ireland, Fine Gael's own youth wing, Young Fine Gael, and many more groups have been campaigning for reductions in the cost of higher education. We must not ignore their calls. I call on the Minister to listen to and engage with students on this issue. Youth organisations and the voice of students need to be heard. I encourage all Members to support our motion to ensure young people can receive their education, that the cost is reduced and that alternative opportunities and avenues of higher education are invested in and encouraged.

Sarah O'Reilly (Aontú)
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When discussing further education, we need to keep a strong emphasis on apprenticeships. There has been a sentiment of snobbery at times when it comes to pursuing craft or trade apprenticeships, and many young people have been pushed towards pursuing third level degrees, even when the programme of study does not suit their own passions. I welcome this motion's attempt to prioritise further education and the importance placed specifically on apprenticeship programmes. However, the motion leaves out a number of issues that constituents raised with me regarding their apprenticeships. Research conducted by Connect Trade Union found that 90% of those surveyed said their employer had paid them below the minimum wage during a stage of their apprenticeship.

The programme for Government highlights the need to increase uptake of apprenticeships, but it does not focus on the issue of pay or the significant challenges faced by those who choose to pursue an apprenticeship at a later stage of life. Last year, the Department stated the vast majority of craft apprenticeship rates exceed the minimum wage by year 3 of their programme. This is welcome but, unfortunately, people cannot get by on such a low rate of pay for the first two years. Many of these people have to pay rent and support themselves. Many mature students are also providing for children. People are dropping out of training due to years of delays and poor pay. The failure to reach our apprenticeship targets is directly connected to our ability to reach our housing targets. I look forward to seeing the full publication of the national survey of apprenticeships for 2024-2025, as the summary that was released at the end of April makes no mention of pay and conditions.

I will speak off the cuff about myself. In 2022, I did a professional cookery course. From my experience, the course started with 20 students and by the time we were finishing, seven people were left in the class. Because it was professional cookery, many students felt it was something hands-on they could do which was not overly academic, but when we got into the course, it was overly academic for those students and, even though they were supported, it became too much for many. Completion rates need to be looked at. From what I have witnessed, there is a high non-completion rate. The reason is that students may feel they are taking a practical course, but when they get into it, it is very heavy technically and academically.

I also wanted to raise the issue of the SUSI grant, which was raised by Senator Nelson Murray, and housing for students.

James Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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I was just taking stock and this has been a good debate. I thank the Senators who brought forward the motion, and all who contributed. I am delighted to see the topic is getting air time in this House and the other House, because it is of such fundamental importance to our economy, our society and everything we do and have done as a nation. I am delighted this opportunity for all to have their say arose. I have listened intently. I will try to respond to most if not all remarks now. This debate will inform my views going forward. My door is open and I want to hear from all Senators at any stage their views and thoughts on the sector and how we can improve and what needs to be done.

It is clear from the motion and contributions that we agree on the pivotal role our third level education and research systems play as a critical engine of economic growth, while being an opportunity across the island. At the core of my approach is a simple but powerful belief, one that has been our industrial policy for the last 50 years, that Ireland's greatest natural resource is our people. Our talent, skills and population are the secret sauce that has propelled us from being effectively an agrarian, pre-industrial nation to the advanced economy we are today. All the resources that have been created as a result in turn fuel the public good and support the services we all need in areas like education, housing and healthcare. This has been made possible by all the economic success predicated upon that skills base and investment in education, resources and research that we have done. A few speakers used the phrase "knowledge economy". It is exactly what we are today, and long may that continue.

The Department that I now lead was created by an Taoiseach, Deputy Micheál Martin, when he took office in 2020. One of his primary goals, as Senator Dee Ryan mentioned, it was in the Fianna Fáil manifesto coming into that election, and then the Taoiseach made it happen and indeed continued it into the current Government. It is a core driver for national policy and economic and societal progress. It is an educational Ministry, first and foremost, but it is also an economic Ministry. Everything that we do in it drives the wheels of our economy, which in turn drives the wheels of social progress.

We are facing many challenges. We have global trade uncertainty, as a number of speakers pointed out. We have digital disruption. I think disruption is actually a good thing. Change is the only constant in life; we just have to embrace it and adapt to it. In respect of AI, yesterday I secured approval at Cabinet for Ireland to join the EU quantum pact. Quantum computing is the next AI, people are telling us already. There are digital leaps forward all the time. We need to be ready to embrace and understand them and for our population to be equipped to deal with and leverage them in a positive, productive way. That is what further and higher education is all about. I am committed to ensuring that our research and further and higher education systems and innovations systems across the board are fully resourced so we can continue to build the knowledge and capability that underpin our prosperity.

The programme for Government is clear in its ambition to provide world-class third level education and research in a way that is sustainable, inclusive and impactful.

I will speak to some of the issues that arose during the debate. I will work through the motion text but will refer to contributions as they were made as well. Starting with the student contribution and student grants, I am acutely conscious of the fiscal challenges facing students - the cost of education, put simply - and the need to have a progressive system to give most support to those who most need it while ensuring that nobody is excluded from the education system for financial means reasons. A number of speakers addressed that. Senator Kennelly spoke about people who should not be deprived of education because of cost being a barrier. I entirely agree. Senator Ní Chuilinn talked about struggling students and Senator Kennelly said that education should not be just for the privileged few. I entirely agree. Progressive measures target supports for those who most need them, those who are really struggling. They are the people e need to keep to the forefront of our minds in these debates.

Senator Tully spoke about reforms to the SUSI system. Again, I entirely agree. I am looking at the SUSI system in the round. There are a lot of moving parts but I am examining the system across the board. We know already that almost all students, barring international students and a couple of exemptions for second-time around students, have their tuition fees paid in full by the State. That is already the case and I think €300 million-odd is provided for that each year.That is already spent. That has already gone to a contribution made towards every student, barring some minority circumstances. In addition, almost half of all students have the student contribution fee paid in full or in part by the State. We are increasing the SUSI grant thresholds by 15% this year. More students will avail of SUSI funding supports towards the student contribution. Following the most recent SUSI revisions, which will be in the year ahead, households with an income of up to €115,000 per annum will qualify for at least some subvention towards the student contribution fee and other measures. That is reasonable. A sum of €115,000 is not a low income. Notwithstanding that, I understand there are challenges and the squeezed middle is an area that I am conscious of. A few Senators referred to gross versus net and the cost of childcare, mortgages and other things that come into play. We must note and recognise that the direction of travel has been upwards. We continue to increase those thresholds, supports, grants and rates. That is how it should be. I will continue to examine that.

Almost all speakers discussed the income disregard for holiday earnings. As somebody who worked every weekend, every Christmas and every summer up to my own student days, I am very alive to that issue. I would not like to see any student taking an extra shift or working an extra Sunday over the winter suddenly becoming frozen out of a grant system. The original logic for that was not financial but to do with the idea - dare I say a little paternalistic, perhaps - that a student should not be working and should be focusing on their studies. We must accept economic reality and economic necessity and the modern world. With full employment, there are many jobs to be had for students who want to contribute, hone their skills and get greater life experience. No decision has been made yet. All of these decisions are subject to budgetary process. I would be of a mind that we should continue to increase the disregard in line with inflation and minimum wage improvements, etc. That is something I will certainly be engaging on in the budget process. As has been mentioned, it has already been increased to €8,424 for the previous year.

For the student contribution fee, the base rate remains at €3,000 but we have had subventions in the past couple of years, as many speakers mentioned. That was a once-off and was very welcome, but it was a once-off intervention. We had a cost-of-living package from the centre which allowed those fees to be subvented. It has been confirmed in recent weeks from central government that there will not be a cost-of-living package this year. That applies not just to education but to other things as well. I remain engaged with stakeholders to see how we can tackle the burden of education and the cost of education in a way that is costed, fair and sustainable and how we make that happen. I had an event in Croke Park last month with a number of different groups, including students unions, access officers, service employees from different colleges, people working with students and people in advocacy organisations across further and higher education, to take their views on board and see what the greatest need is and where are the areas that require the most intervention. The programme for Government commits to reducing the student contribution fee in a financially sustainable manner over the lifetime of the Government. I fully intend to do that. Of course, I plan to do that. If I can at all, my intention is to honour every single aspect of the programme for Government. There are many laudable aspirations, goals, aims and objectives in it. I was in the room and wrote many of them. I fully intend to commit them. However, we must do them over time, in pace and in a financial and sustainable way. That is where we get into the detail.

The base figure is €3,000 and I intend to advance measures to reduce that incrementally in a way that is fair and funded and that is not reliant on temporary subventions, which, it must be acknowledged that, while they were welcome, there was uncertainty about in recent years because students, families and parents did not know from one budget to the next over the past couple of years whether there would be a subvention and where they stood. Families need that sort of certainty, guidance and clarity. If we can come up with a formula that is repeatable, incremental, fair and communicated to all, people will know where they stand and can plan accordingly.

There are a number ways which we can intervene in the cost of education. We can do universal reductions to the student contribution fee, which is a one size fits all. When we talk about struggling students, I acknowledge that some struggle more others and some universalities are not always the fairest way if we take a social justice approach. Another approach is a means-tested reduction to the student contribution - that is another option. Options include increasing the basic grant rates; changes to the non-adjacent rates in terms of commuting distance from a college; increases to the thresholds, such as the €115,000 I mentioned and where that may go to; changes to specific elements of the student grant scheme, such as the holiday earnings disregard I have already spoken about; changes to tax credits, which is something we can explore; and non-fee interventions, for example, the cost of transport and materials such as laptops, books and bags. There are also other types of intervention.Senator Ryan made an interesting comment that I entirely empathised with regarding where there was more than one student in a family attending third level education at the same time. Different circumstances are worthy of different considerations. I believe it was Aristotle who said we should treat equals equally and unequals unequally, meaning it is fair to intervene where the need is greater. That might be a premise we reflect on as we examine this.

I intend to publish an options paper on the cost of education. I hope to have that in the system in mid-summer ahead of the budgetary cycle. It will consider the different options. There are many levers we can move, remaining faithful to the programme for Government while also being financially sustainable, and do it in a way that is fair, progressive, costed, repeatable and not dependent on one-off, temporary interventions that can be welcome at the time but can leave uncertainty afterwards when they are revisited the following year.

Moving on to the pathways and CAO reform, I launched the new round of tertiary degrees today. These are 38 tertiary degree courses taking students from next September on. It is a really positive programme. I interacted with a number of students at an event on the matter in TU Dublin yesterday. They were people who perhaps would not have anticipated that they could achieve higher education and further education at local level through night college or FET courses and progressing on to full degree courses outside the CAO system. As one of the signs yesterday read, "No points needed". That is a great leveller. For people from non-traditional backgrounds that may struggle to navigate the CAO system, it is a progressive measure and I am delighted to see it in place.

I agree with Senator Scahill on apprenticeships and the need to focus on them. I agree on the difficulty within crafts and trade apprenticeships and the great demand for those. We have a construction skills programme within the Department, that being, the building heroes programme, which involves leading by example. There is an issue around gender equality. Why would we leave 50% of the population outside of the trades? Traditionally, they have been male dominated but there is no reason they should be. We have a number of outstanding young female apprentices in traditional craft roles who are doing really well. We are highlighting their work and showcasing that through our building heroes programme. The whole area of apprenticeships is important.

There was an issue two years ago where a significant backlog had arisen and people were waiting long times to get access to their courses or training. We have tackled that and moved it on to the point that waiting lists have decreased greatly, reducing the apprenticeship backlog and allowing access to places. This was done through additional funding of €67 million in 2024 and €77 million this year, along with recruiting a number of new apprentice instructors. This allowed us to clear the backlog and get back on track.

I agree with the Senators who said that apprenticeships should not be an afterthought and should have parity of esteem with the rest of the system, given how important they are.

Senators Harmon and O'Donovan spoke about the student accommodation strategy. That is something I am working on in the Department. Prior to the establishment of my Department, student accommodation was a little bitad hoc. In a similar fashion to second level school building programmes and primary school building programmes, there will now be a set of standard designs and it will be more cost effective. There will be synergies and economies of scale in terms of how student accommodation is rolled out. That is something I am working on and hope to publish this year. One hundred and sixteen beds are to come on stream at Maynooth University and this September is the target for that. Certainly, it will be the 2025-26 academic year. There are 493 beds as part of a proposal going to the UCD governing body, possibly next month and certainly by the summer. DCU is working on a proposal for 405 beds that will go to its governing authority. These are part of the student accommodation first wave but the strategy will supersede those when it comes on stream to deliver more.

Senator Cosgrove mentioned ATU Sligo. I had the pleasure of visiting ATU Sligo recently and approved its purchase of 16 acres of adjacent lands, which I understand it intends to use for student accommodation.

Senator Craughwell mentioned the TUI conference and adult educators. There is a new grade being introduced this September for those who wish to avail of it. That was something I spoke about at the TUI conference.

Senator Murphy spoke about the shared island initiative. I visited Queen's University Belfast and had some productive engagements there, including a meeting with the minister, Caoimhe Archibald, my Northern counterpart. On the National Training Fund, the core funding gap was €307 million. Some €164 million was procured to bridge that gap but I have secured a further €150 million per annum for the next five years. That brings the €307 million core funding gap down on a current annual basis. I intend to bring legislation on this matter through the Houses. That legislation will come before the Seanad in due course. I got Cabinet approval for this just last week. It will unlock the training fund and allow the money to be spent. There is a fund of €1.5 billion available, so the core funding gap will be addressed for further education, apprenticeships, research programmes, student supports and a variety of other things.

Senators Lynch and Dee Ryan and others spoke about the importance of research to our economy. There was a programme for research in third level institutions, as was referred to by Senator Lynch. My party introduced it when in government from 1997 onwards. The current Taoiseach was Minister for Education at the time. The programme fell away from 2011 onwards. I am reintroducing a package of this nature. I have a working group established to tease it out and I am making a significant submission under the national development plan for funding for it. I intend it to be transformative. It will relate to our knowledge economy and transforming our ecosystem and where we need to be.

The final point was on global uncertainty. Several speakers referred to this. I intend to make Ireland a magnet and a place that is welcoming of external academics, researchers and those who feel a chilling effect in other jurisdictions, not least across the Atlantic at the moment. Ireland is a land of saints and scholars – although there certainly are scholars, I am not sure how many saints we have left – and that is our strength, as it has been historically. I intend to introduce a programme to attract scholars from the United States and elsewhere and to make this a centre of excellence.

I really look forward to delivering on these reforms and measures and to working with colleagues in both Houses on them. I very much welcome the fact that we are having this debate today and that the Seanad has regarded the issue as sufficiently serious to dedicate an afternoon to discussing it. I look forward to introducing the measures in legislation and budgets and to taking on board Senators’ views as we work together.

Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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Glaoim anois ar an Seanadóir Kennelly chun freagra a thabhairt

Mike Kennelly (Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister. This has been a wonderful debate on the future of every student. It is a relief that we can take back what was said to their families. These are difficult financial times for many families who are sending their kids to further, higher or third level education. Students and families in my area are coming to me about gaining access to the programme. This is the biggest problem. If the families can afford to access the programme, they will break any barrier to make sure their children get to third level and complete their courses.

We have all spoken about different regions and the technological universities, their impetus and what they are doing in their areas, including Limerick. The technological universities, which I have mentioned to the Minister, have been transformative and an unbelievable blessing for their catchment areas. Reference was made to people in south Kerry going to Limerick. There are now people from Limerick going to Kerry, which is unprecedented. That is all welcome.

As Senator Ní Chuilinn stated, we are the voice for every student and, particularly in these economically uncertain times, their families. Hopefully, we can help with the work being done by the Minister and his Department to deliver on everything in the programme for Government.

The first of the four or five items I really wanted to drive home is increasing people's holiday earnings. The Minister referred to budget time and making sure everything promised in our programme for Government will be delivered. With regard to SUSI’s

earnings deductions, students really have to work and get off their backsides to make sure that they finish college life with a degree, diploma or otherwise. They must go out and work because of family circumstances. A figure of up to €12,000 has been mentioned. The Minister stated he is working with student bodies on determining what will be more appropriate at budget time. Could the figure of up to €12,000 be examined seriously? We must deliver on the commitments in the programme for Government to reform the CAO and introduce a single application process for apprenticeships. Very much highlighted in this debate was the fact that we have kind of forgotten about apprenticeships and the availability of the apprenticeship pathway to any person leaving school. It should have been highlighted more before now. We had a technological era and now we have a labour shortage, so we really need to progress that. We must also develop the framework for universities and provide clear routes to allow access for capital funding. The Minister mentioned student accommodation strategy groups. We have a severe housing problem throughout the country. There is no private rental market. We have heard of kids sleeping in their cars overnight to present at college the following morning. This cannot happen in 2025. The Minister must ensure it does not happen from now on.

I ask that the Government continue to reduce the student contribution during its lifetime. The reduction of €1,000 over the past two terms has been hugely welcome and has eased the financial burden. I do not want the student contribution to increase again by €800 or €1,000. We do not want to go backwards. I know the base is €3,000 but let us keep the €1,000 reduction. That must be a priority for the Government going forward.

I look forward to working with and engaging with the Department. Senators, who are really ambassadors for the student population, will do everything we can to keep students on the right road and able to finish the school term.

Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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When is it proposed to sit again?

Seán Kyne (Fine Gael)
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Tomorrow morning at 9.30.

Maria Byrne (Fine Gael)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.