Lisa Chambers (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Troy, to the House. I am pleased to share my time this morning with Senator Burke. The issue we are raising is the ongoing campaign by Tús and the rural social scheme to make changes to how they operate. On Monday night, Senator Burke and I attended a meeting in the TF Royal Hotel in Castlebar. It was attended by more than 450 members of schemes from throughout County Mayo, local councillors and Oireachtas Members from the county. The changes announced in recent weeks, in particular the abolition of the six-year rule, have been very much welcomed by scheme operators and those on the schemes. There is still some way to go. We are looking for an expansion of or flexibility in the eligibility criteria. I will give an example. Only one person can access a scheme under a herd number. If a niece or nephew is working with a farmer he or she cannot access the scheme. This does not make sense. We need to get people onto these schemes.

Another key issue is the top-up payment. It may come as a shock to many people that they only receive €22.50 as a top-up to their social welfare payment. By any standard this is a very low level of pay for the work that is done. What has been requested by Tús and the rural social scheme is that the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Humphreys, engage with and meet them to discuss the outstanding issues and matters to be resolved. This includes increasing the top-up payment, particularly as we head towards budget 2023. There is extra money in the budget package to cater for requests such as this. We ask that the eligibility criteria be expanded and that greater flexibility be allowed in the operation of the schemes.

The Minister of State is from a rural area and knows these schemes are vital. They are part of the fabric of rural Ireland. There are jobs in communities that simply would not get done were it not for these schemes. As the saying goes, we do not know what we have until it is gone. If people were not operating on these schemes many jobs would not get done. They mow the local GAA pitches. They keep them ready for the under-fives teams up to the senior teams. They keep the local community halls open. They look after the graveyards. These are all jobs that local authorities do not have the resources or the manpower and womanpower to do. The local schemes pick up the slack and bridge the gap the State does not fill. It is vital that we ensure the long-term sustainability and viability of the schemes.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank Senator Chambers for sharing her time. I welcome the Minister of State to the House. Senator Chambers has outlined in detail the case and what took place at the very large meeting in Castlebar last Monday. There is no need to go over the case that Senator Chambers made. The Minister of State is only too well aware of the work carried out by the schemes on football, hurling and soccer fields and graveyards. Even at funerals we can see that participants in the schemes regulate traffic. It is great when we go to a funeral and we can see it is taking place in an orderly fashion and drivers are told where to park. They also assist Tidy Towns to keep towns and villages clean.

At the meeting we were presented with a leaflet on what was being sought. In particular, people want to engage with the Minister and the Department on what they need. I will give the Minister of State a copy of what they gave us on the night. The top-up payment of €22.50 for the rural social scheme is very little for 19.5 hours work and the great work people do in the community. Who would go out to work for €22.50 for 19.5 hours other than those who love what they do and love helping the community? That is what these people do and it is what they are about. I ask the Minister of State consider their demands and engage with the Department and the Minister.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I acknowledge the excellent work done on the full range of community employment, Tús and rural social schemes, supported by the Department of Social Protection, and the contributions these schemes and their workers make to communities throughout the country. At present there are some 27,000 people and 1,649 supervisors employed on the three main schemes. Overall, these schemes have a budget allocation of €540 million in 2022.

Work schemes such as Tús and community employment are positive initiatives that enable the long-term unemployed to make a contribution to their communities while upskilling for prospective future employment. The rural social scheme provides farmers and fishers with income support while they also make a contribution to their community. At present, there are more than 10,000 places supported on Tús and rural social schemes, with a budget of more than €160 million available to support the schemes in 2022.

I agree with the Senators and we are all hugely impressed with the range and value of the work undertaken by the participants on these schemes, whether with Tidy Towns or the GAA or in childcare. We would all notice a sizeable difference to our communities were these schemes and their participants not working. Recognising the work and acknowledging the challenges that face these schemes, on 21 December, the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, and the Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien, announced reforms to the rural social scheme and the community employment scheme to improve the operation and further support these schemes that maintain vital services to communities. These changes included a provision to allow community employment and rural social scheme participants who reach 60 years of age to remain on both schemes until they reach State pension age, along with a number of other changes to reduce the numbers exiting schemes while improving the referral process.

While these changes have helped, recruitment to schemes to fill all vacancies remains a challenge with vacancies in schemes at present. Recent positive employment trends, with the reduction in unemployment and in the number of long-term unemployed, are having an impact on recruitment to these schemes. It means there is a smaller pool of candidates to fill available places. These challenges are similar to those facing employers in the open labour market. To further assist schemes to maintain services in this tight labour market, last week the Minister and Minister of State announced additional measures. These will improve recruitment and remove the six-year time limit on the rural social scheme for all participants, while continuing the practice whereby placements can be extended until suitable replacements are available to fill vacancies. These reforms will ensure that schemes have sufficient participants to continue to deliver services throughout the county in urban and rural areas.

The Department recently reviewed the means assessment disregards for farm assist, which is the main qualifying payment for the rural social scheme. As part of this review process, it was recommended to provide for extensive expansion of the list of agri-environmental schemes that qualify towards income disregards. These measures have been implemented from June 2022.

I understand that last year, the Minister and Minister of State introduced the employment support services operation forum where they, along with departmental officials, meet representatives from community employment, the job initiative scheme, the rural social scheme and Tús. This forum now meets three to four times a year, with the next meeting due to be held very shortly. The operational forum provides a valuable opportunity to discuss operational issues that arise on the schemes and impact on service delivery in the communities. The Minister and Minister of State find the meetings to be extremely informative and a very worthwhile opportunity for constructive exchanges of views and ideas. They also interact regularly with schemes at ground level by visiting and engaging with them throughout the country.

The funding of any potential payment increases for rural social scheme and Tús participants is a matter for the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and will need to be considered in the wider economic and budgetary context. I assure both Senators that I will ensure the points raised this morning will be relayed to the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, the Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien, and, with regard to the top-up payment, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Michael McGrath.

Lisa Chambers (Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State. It might be of assistance to the two Ministers and Minister of State concerned if he were to let them know there is a briefing in the audiovisual room today at 12.30 p.m. They would be most welcome to attend and meet directly with rural social scheme and Tús supervisors and hear directly from those affected.

When these schemes were first set up they were seen as job activation measures that dealt with income support and rural isolation. They have evolved over time to become essential services in rural areas. This was not factored in at the outset. There needs to be a change of mindset in the Department as regards how we view these schemes. We must recognise that it suits many people to be on a scheme while doing some work on their farms or in the fishing community.It just works well for the local community. We want to acknowledge that and not to try to force people off these schemes when there is really no need to do that.

The second point relates to the eligibility criteria. The pool of people who qualify to get on these schemes is getting smaller. When we match that with the way the economy is currently, the jobs market and the fact we are close to full employment, it is becoming next to impossible to get people onto the schemes as they just are not available. We need to expand the eligibility criteria or we will see these schemes getting smaller and closing down eventually. Those are my two points.

Paddy Burke (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

These jobs are vital to communities and the Minister of State will be aware of the benefits that accrue to the community due to the work people do. We again ask him to seriously consider what we are looking for. They are not big demands in the great scheme of events. The money that is involved is in the region of €2.5 million, which is very little in the overall budget of the Department of Social Protection. I again thank the Minister of State for coming to the House to hear our views. We hope he will take them on board.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank both Senators. The success of Government policies is a challenge to the schemes, given we now have 2.5 million people in employment. When we have so many people in employment, fewer people are available to work on the schemes. To be fair to both the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, and the Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien, they have been listening and responding, and they have made a number of changes. However, as Senator Chambers said, they could go a little further. I undertake to ensure the points raised by both Senators will be relayed to the Minister. These schemes are an integral part of our communities, which would not function as well as they do if the schemes were not in operation. However, it is becoming more and more challenging to retain people on the schemes. No one wants to see the schemes disappear. I do not believe the Minister or the Minister of State want the schemes to disappear; on the contrary, they are supportive of them. I will relay the points raised this morning to them.