Seanad debates

Wednesday, 2 February 2022

Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters

Information and Communications Technology

10:30 am

Photo of Ned O'SullivanNed O'Sullivan (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Troy, to the House.

Photo of Malcolm ByrneMalcolm Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Troy, for coming before the House to take this matter. He is aware we are in the middle of a period of radical technological transformation, where we are seeing a convergence of a range of new technologies from artificial intelligence to blockchain to 6G and the Internet of things. Today I want to talk about the metaverse, an augmented and virtual reality, and the extent to which the State is prepared to operate in such a sector.

As there always is with new technologies and opportunities, there are disputes about the value of the market and what will happen in that space. Bloomberg, for instance, estimates the market will be worth approximately $800 billion by 2024. Facebook has rebranded as Meta, and it has already committed $10 billion to the project, including the hiring of 10,000 workers for its European operations. Mr. Bill Gates last December predicted most meetings within two to three years will take place in the metaverse. We have gone from Zoom to appreciating a few meetings as we get back but this will be transformational.

To give a picture of what we will see happening, we will have immersive shopping experiences. Rather than Members necessarily having to go to stores on the main street, they may be able to put on augmented and virtual reality devices to carry out shopping. In education, learning will be done in that way so if we want to learn about the events of 1922, we will be able to put on a headset and immerse ourselves in the experience. I even suggest that at some point in the future, we could hear Commencement Matters where my avatar in a virtual parliament could pose questions to the Minister of State's avatar. That might cause a few frights around this House where, during the Covid-19 pandemic, there was an insistence on Members being on the parliamentary campus. I am not sure how such people might react to this.

Some people might think this is far-fetched but much of this is happening. In the gaming world, Minecraft has a 140 million monthly active users. The biggest gig in the world last year, when we were pleading to keep theatre and arts venues open, had 12 million people on Fortnite at the same time. Seoul has already committed as a city government to operate in the metaverse as part of South Korea's digital new deal. In November, it announced that a variety of its public services and cultural events will move to the metaverse. We have seen the rise of crypto assets and non-fungible tokens. The key for Ireland is a need to strategically respond to some of these.

I welcome the Government's digital strategy that was published yesterday, although there is no mention of the metaverse in it and there is no real mention of augmented and virtual reality. There is much positive stuff nonetheless. It is key for us to see a whole-of-government approach in this area. I want to see us exploring how this will happen. The Government's digital strategy talks about nurturing digital start-ups and we need to see how we can support start-ups and existing companies that may want to do business within the metaverse.

We must address a series of matters around regulation and these are similar to challenges we are facing in other aspects of technology. These concern questions of privacy and cybercrime, and there has already been a case of sexual harassment in the metaverse. We must look at the potential impact on social engagement as we do not want people behind screens and headsets all the time. We must be able to interact on a one-to-one basis. We will need upskilling and reskilling.

We must be ambitious. Our strategy in dealing with new technologies must be about looking at where we will be in 2030 and 2040. At times I wonder if the Government is underestimating the speed of change we are experiencing in technology and the scale of the challenge and opportunity ahead of us.

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Senator Byrne for raising this topic today and giving us the opportunity to debate it in the House. He has correctly said that the digital world is growing and is very much a part of our everyday lives. It is important that the Government and all of us as legislators are responsive and, crucially, future-proof our laws, society and economy to keep pace with future developments as they happen.

The metaverse is still a relatively new concept in its early stages of development. The full gamut of opportunities, challenges and risks that it is likely to present are still emerging. We can only begin to identify the range and type of measures and regulations that may be needed at this stage. That said, when it comes to seizing the opportunities of digital developments and the mainstreaming of disruptive technologies, we are working on a number of fronts which I believe will also be relevant to the metaverse.

Our new national digital strategy, alluded to by the Senator, is entitled Harnessing Digital: The Digital Ireland Framework and was published yesterday. It is the Government's vision for Ireland as a digital leader at the heart of European and global digital developments. The strategy recognises the importance of measures such as skills policies and infrastructure. These will be vital if Irish enterprise is to seize the opportunities of digitalisation overall, including any that the metaverse will open.

Another important aspect is likely to be setting standards, both within the EU and for the world, to ensure products made here can compete internationally across all realms as well as the metaverse. When it comes to regulation, many of the rules we are devising now have been shaped with future-proofing in mind. For example, the Digital Markets Act prohibits certain behaviours by large gatekeepers that can be added to or reduced if necessary. Similarly, the Digital Services Act establishes a liability regime for providers of digital services, which has stood the test of time and furthermore obliges very large platforms to identify and mitigate risks. Where new risks are created by the metaverse or other virtual realities, they will still need to comply with those provisions.

Of course, the specifics of the metaverse are likely to raise a variety of other issues. Cryptocurrencies, privacy, safety, competition in the market and content moderation are just some of those. Our approach to any new regulation in those areas will be the same as it has been to other digital laws; we will seek rules that are balanced and proportionate, take an ethical approach, promote fair competition and foster innovation.

Photo of Malcolm ByrneMalcolm Byrne (Fianna Fail)
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I hope that will be the case, although the evidence to date suggests it will not. Yesterday I spoke about the approach of the Central Bank, for example, to fintech and financial services companies. We saw the decision by Revolut to move its operations to Lithuania.Many fintech companies do not believe that the regulatory sandbox that is required to allow these companies to start is being pursued here. There are many problems with cryptocurrencies but we are moving towards the era of digital currencies. There is a clear decision on the part of the European Central Bank, ECB, that we are moving into a digital euro. I worry that we are not availing of all of the opportunities that are presented. How are we going to ensure that our small enterprises are going to be able to compete in the metaverse? Will we be able to seek those 10,000 jobs for Ireland that Meta or Facebook are going to create? I have a general concern that in many areas of technology we spend our time trying to catch up in the area of regulation, rather than trying to look at what is coming down the line and avail of the opportunities while facing up to the challenges.

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Senator Byrne is right when he says it is clear that we need to remain watchful on the regulatory front. The Government is committed to regulation that addresses the issues technology has posed in a coherent way and takes the interests of users and providers into account for a balanced result. Yesterday we published our national digital strategy. We have committed to a digitalisation fund of €75 million to help enterprises. Some enterprises are not even digitally literate at the moment. There is a way to go to bring them to the standard they need to reach in the current market. There are also other enterprises which are much further advanced. It is important that we take guidance and work with those enterprises to ensure that our regulation is responsive to their needs and protects the users. In that context, as part of our artificial intelligence strategy, we have committed to establishing a digital enterprise forum which will bring leaders in that field together on a quarterly basis to advise the Government on the policy required to support job creation in this area. I welcome any suggestions Members may have in that area. It is an area that offers significant opportunities and we must seize those opportunities, and work collectively to ensure we do so.

Sitting suspended at 11.22 a.m. and resumed at 11.33 a.m.