Joe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am delighted to welcome my friend and colleague, the Minister of State at the Department of Education, Deputy Josepha Madigan, to the House. I am delighted to have her here. I congratulate her on her proactive approach in her Department.

Emer Currie (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State and congratulate her on the budget and her securing of investment in special education in addition to that of last year. I thank her for her support to date in Dublin West. She came out to visit Rath Dara Community College, as it is now known, in Dublin 15. She understands the building issue concerning Danu Community Special School. I thank the Government for the opening of Danu Community Special School in November 2019 with the patron, Dublin and Dún Laoghaire Education and Training Board, DDLETB, at the temporary site at Hansfield. I am sure we will talk about the building at some stage but today is more about the resources.

I would prefer it if we were talking about the future of the children, but today I am talking about the future of the school because the school feels it is going from incident to incident and crisis to crisis in managing and not focusing enough on education and learning. When I say "the school", I am talking about the parents and the brilliant work of the Autism School Dublin 15 committee. The committee was behind the opening of the school and campaigned for it.

The children associated with the school have very complex and challenging behavioural needs. They are non-verbal and communicate through their behaviour. They have severe learning disabilities. Some have sensory impairments, and they can have autism spectrum disorder and anxiety. We are dealing with complex cases involving children who were not in school. They are the most vulnerable of all children, and their families are the ones under the most pressure. They need the right resources in their school. They need the wrap-around supports, behavioural therapists, the psychologist, occupational therapists, speech and language therapists and physiotherapists. The reality is that they do not feel they are getting them. I am not sure the Minister of State is aware of how serious the circumstances are.

The school has 30 children. This number will rise to 34 in January and to 36, the allocation, in September 2022. The school has a principal, six teachers and 15 special needs assistants, but it feels it needs more based on the assessments of the children.At the moment they are getting two hours of behavioural support a week with a behavioural therapist. This is three hours remotely. This is their second therapist, which is important to mention in the context of knowledge and consistency. They feel that they cannot focus on education at the moment because they are purely focused on managing behaviours. They need the expertise of a behavioural therapist. They are looking for a full-time behavioural therapist to work with proactive strategies and not to be constantly be dealing with the behavioural challenges.

The school has asked what is the policy and what is the definition of the new special school model. They want clarity on what differentiates them from a special class in a school and about getting those wraparound supports. The needs must be based on the needs of the children not the size of the school. They are constantly battling that with the 1993 Special Education Review Committee, SERC, allocation of one teacher and two SNAs for six students. To the school that is just not enough when dealing with the complexity of the cases. Where does Progressing Disability Services fit around this? We are not just talking about education here, we are also talking about life skills for the future.

The school feels that it is surviving and coping but not thriving or managing. The school is in a building that is not fit for purpose. It has dealt with the pandemic. There is a constant staff turnover. I know the staff personally, and the incentives are not there. Why would the SNAs and the teachers take on these complex cases when they do not feel that they are getting the right supports in this instance? They are overwhelmed. Hopefully we can talk about the building itself in the next section. This is a cry for help.

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank Senator Currie for her acknowledgement of the resources provided for in the budget. As the Minister of State with responsibility for special education, it was very important to me that we put extra resources into children's additional educational needs of which we are aware there is a whole spectrum. Some 90% of children with additional needs are in mainstream education. If a child has a more complex need he or she will go into a special class, and if it is more severe again the child would go into a special school.

The Senator will be aware there are 126 special schools in the State that look after nearly 8,000 pupils. In the budgets we increased provision for SNAs by 70% since 2011. We are now at 1,165 special needs assistants, and there are 980 new special education teachers, which will help to create about 140 new special school places. We are putting significant funding into this. The Senator mentioned resources at the outset. There is significant funding overall into special education schools and special education classes, and indeed into mainstream schools. It is very important that we provide a flexible and tailored support for each child so that each child gets the appropriate education he or she deserves from the teachers. Obviously, we always look to see if we can do better than we are already doing.

It is important that the Senator has highlighted this issue to me today. My understanding is that the National Council for Special Education, NCSE, is engaging quite extensively with the school and with the National Educational Psychological Service, NEPS, in trying to provide a bespoke and tailored support to the school. I understand that the school already has access to a behavioural practitioner, which is de factothe same as a behavioural therapist. There is availability there. One of the issues that is coming back to me is around staff capacity, which the Senator also mentioned, and making sure that staff have adequate training and advice. The NCSE is working with NEPS to make sure that teachers have appropriate training and appropriate insight for this particular area. The behavioural issues often go unnoticed. We often think about education as just teaching the ABCs and the 123s, but it does not work like that. The behavioural issues can be very problematic and particularly in special schools when there is acute need for such training.

The Senator asked about the distinction between a special class and a special school. There is a huge difference in terms of the supports that special schools receive. There are much more enhanced supports from a staffing level and an SNA level. All of the supports they receive are above and beyond those in a special class.

From my perspective, the most important aspect is that there is ongoing support with NEPS, and ongoing collaboration and engagement. They are in constant contact with the school around sorting this out. They will be on site visiting the school next week for further engagement and further discussion. This is a relatively new school. I have been out to visit and I am aware of the building and the issue there. It is important that the school is supported. The Senator referred to the increase in numbers of children from 30 to 36, which may well increase into the future. Obviously, there are mechanisms and processes in place so we can ensure that adequate supports are given on an ongoing basis. When considering special needs in general, there has been an increase in special classes by 386% since 2011. We went from 584 special classes to 2,118 special classes, which is significant.

Emer Currie (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is great to know NEPS is to visit the school in the next week. I have been raising this issue for nearly a year and I am not getting around the full-time behavioural therapist requirement. The school community feels that it is not being heard on this. They need the full-time behavioural therapist. The Minister of State said that they get access to more resources but when I speak to the school they want to know the definition so they have something by which they can measure what they have, and to know what the new model is. I believe it is about a centre of excellence. In January 2022 the school will be moving to Rath Dara Community College, but we know that they need a purpose-built school. They cannot just have classrooms attached to another school. These children deserve the full wraparound services and joined-up thinking with the purpose-built specific school with a full-time behavioural therapist.

Joe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not mind interrupting the Senator because there is very little ambiguity in that presentation.

Emer Currie (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach.

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I should clarify that in general, speech and language therapists, occupational therapists and behavioural therapists come from the HSE. The NCSE can sanction it. The most important aspect is that there is engagement and discussion, and the fact that the NCSE is going out next week and will offer a bespoke solution for the school. It is important that the Senator has highlighted the issue today. The NCSE is aware that I am in the House today and that the matter has been brought up, and we will look at it in the round. It is also about staff training, which is important. There is access to a behavioural practitioner. If the NCSE is of the view that they need to increase those hours, they do have a behavioural practitioner, but that post is not in the particular school. That is the way it works. They can discuss this with the school and see if there is more they can provide. I am very grateful to the Senator for raising the matter. It is very important Danu Community Special School will have adequate accommodation. It is good that they are moving in in January. Who knows what the future will hold> We went out there also with the Tánaiste and the Senator. Hopefully there will be a resolution to that in the near future.

Joe O'Reilly (Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan.