Ollie Crowe (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien, to the House and thank him for his time this morning. I want to raise, and I certainly welcome, the introduction of the benefit payment to 65-year-olds who have worked all their lives. They simply should not have to sign on the live register or seek new work, especially as many have no option but to retire at the age of 65 due to their contracts. Private sector companies frequently have a mandatory retirement age of 65.

As the House and the Minister of State well know, over the last year, and particularly during the general election campaign, I have been contacted by 65-year-olds who had to go through this process in recent years and were deeply affected by it. They consider this - rightly, in my view - to be an insult to their dignity. These are hard-working, honest people who have been working longer than some of us in this House have been alive. For them to have had to engage in a process that they considered to be beneath their dignity was insulting, to say the least. It should never have happened. I am glad the Minister of State and the Government have taken steps to address this.

I believe we need clarity around the payment, however. Over the last number of weeks, I have been contacted by people in Galway city and county who have retired at the age of 61 or 62 after working for 42 or 43 years. They seem to have huge concerns because there is certainly a miscommunication out there.

According to the Department, claimants must have paid at least 39 PRSI contributions at class A, class H or class P, or have credited contributions in the governing contribution year. As the Minister of State will be aware, at least 13 of these contributions must be paid from employment in the governing contribution year in the two years before this and in the last year or current tax year. Therefore, somebody could retire at the age of 62 with 42 or 43 years of service and then might not work at 63, 64 or 65. The Department outlined a number of weeks ago that everybody was eligible for this payment. As the Minister of State will be aware, it is more than €200 per week. Therefore, it would be in excess of €10,000 per year. I do not believe this is acceptable at all. I want clarity on it. How many people will it impact? What will be the breakdown between male and female?

I also want to raise the matter of pensions with regard to the Covid-19 pandemic, which has caused many people to be out of work for the last year. Could the Minister of State clarify how this condition will be impacted in their pensions? If people have been on the pandemic unemployment payment, PUP, since March 2020, does this payment count as a contribution for the purposes of fulfilling the condition I have mentioned? Could the Minister of State also clarify what the situation will be for those who have retired in the last 12 months before the age of 65? Will they be eligible for this payment when they reach their 65th birthday? What will be the status of those who retire now and in the future before the age of 65?

Finally, I note that when this change was announced at the start of February, the Minister of State's Department said it had identified people currently in receipt of jobseeker's benefit who were eligible for the new payment, and was in the process of advising them of the relaxation of conditions to their claim and of their automatic transfer to the scheme. Could the Minister of State advise if this process is now complete? If it is not, could he give an update on the work done thus far and set out when it is likely to be completed?

Joe O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Green Party)
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I thank the Senator for raising this important matter. It is important to also point out that the pension age has been 66 for a long time and, in accordance with legislation introduced last year, it will not increase this year but remain at that age. The new benefit payment for 65-year-olds was introduced to deliver on a programme for Government commitment to address the position of people who retire at the age of 65. "Retire at 65" is an important phrase. In many cases, it is not because they want to but because that is the retirement age specified in their contract of employment.

As we all know, up until now, people in that position had to claim a jobseeker payment, sign in at the Intreo centre and declare that they were genuinely seeking and available for work.That is no longer the case. With this new benefit payment people who retire at age 65 do not have to sign on or attend an Intreo centre. However, if they wish they can still receive assistance in finding a job, including through participation in a course of education, while retaining their full payment entitlement.

This new benefit provides for a standard rate of payment payable at €203 per week with an increase for dependants, as appropriate. The social insurance contribution requirements are not as high as those for receipt of the State pension and people retiring at age 65 should, in most cases, easily meet the required PRSI conditionality. Although only recently introduced, more than 2,330 people aged 65 currently are availing of the new benefit.

New applicants for the scheme must satisfy all of the qualifying conditions of the scheme which include having the required contributions in the governing contribution year, GCY, which is the second last complete tax year. For example, in this situation where the person will be making a claim for the new benefit in 2022, the second last complete tax year is 2020.

To qualify for the payment a person must have paid 104 PRSI insurable employment contributions at class A, H or P or paid 156 class S contributions if they are self-employed. They also require 36 contributions paid from employment in the GCY. At least 13 of those contributions must be paid from any combination of employment in the GCY, the two years before this, the last year or the current tax year. Alternatively, they could qualify if they have 26 PRSI contributions paid in the GCY and 26 paid in the year immediately before that. The requirement to have paid contributions during this period is to demonstrate their attachment to the workforce.

These are complex criteria but each case is determined on an individual basis taking into account the contributions paid on the date at which the person retired from employment. The best way to check entitlement in the case of an individual is to make an application for the benefit.

With regard to the specific example referred to by the Senator in his question, a person aged 63 years and retiring in 2020 with an entitlement to jobseeker's benefit would be entitled to social insurance credits and would qualify for the new benefit at age 65. I want to underline the point that it is very important in these circumstances that the person would claim their credits.

I will address the Senator's query regarding the attribution of contributions. The Social Welfare (Covid-19) (Amendment) Act 2020 provides, among other measures, for the attribution of social insurance contributions to insured persons who were beneficiaries of certain Covid-19 income support payments, including the pandemic unemployment payment, PUP.

The attribution of contributions will ensure that recipients of the PUP will have social insurance contributions attributed to them at the same value as they were paying while employed immediately before going on the payment. The measure means that people who lost their jobs arising from the pandemic will not be disadvantaged in accessing social insurance benefits such as the new benefit payment for those aged 65 years.

Ollie Crowe (Fianna Fail)
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To be clear, my understanding is that the Department issued a statement in early February that everybody between 65 and 66 years of age would be eligible for the payment. Can the Minister of State confirm now that this is not the case and that they must have 13 weeks of paid PRSI contributions in the year they reach 63 or 64 to qualify for the benefit because if they are signing for the credits, they do not count?

Can the Minister of State tell the House the number of people this will impact and is he able to give the breakdown in terms of male and female? This is a huge issue in Galway West that has been raised with me because there are concerns with regard to people's entitlements. I thank the Minister of State for his time.

Joe O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Green Party)
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I thank the Senator again for his contribution. Up to now, a person who retired at 65 because that was the retirement age in his or her contract of employment could only avail of an income support if he or she signed on at the local Intreo centre for jobseeker's benefit and declared that they were available for and genuinely seeking work. We all agreed that this was not a satisfactory position and that we should find a way to support a person who had to retire at aged 65 without obliging him or her to sign on. That was the commitment in the programme for Government and that is what this benefit payment for those aged 65 delivers.It provides a benefit payment for employed or self-employed people who are required to or who, in some cases, choose to retire when reaching age 65. The new benefit does not require a person to sign on or to engage in activation measures, or declare they are available for and genuinely seeking work. Recipients can choose to participate in a course of education while retaining their full payment entitlement.

It is important to note that anyone who retires at 65 should have the required contributions to qualify for this payment and, in fact, the contribution requirements to qualify for this payment are not as demanding as those to qualify for the State pension.

I do not have answers on the Senator’s breakdown of statistics and on the automated transfer process that he referenced but we will get back to him on those. I want to underline that this is linked to contributions paid rather than reaching an age, as such.