Paul Gavan (Sinn Fein)
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I need to raise with the Minister of State the failure of the Department and the HSE to honour the public service stability agreement, PSSA. It is deeply ironic that, at a time when the Minister is citing this agreement as a reason for not negotiating with the nurses - incorrectly, by the way - he and his Department are in breach of the agreement.

The Minister of State will know from the Commencement matter I have raised that I am referring to the job evaluation process which was carried out under the terms of this agreement and which was completed on 4 October in respect of up to 7,000 support staff. I have a personal interest in this matter because, for years, I had the great honour to work with these support staff from time to time in University Hospital Limerick, UHL, and I am aware of the incredible work they do. I know how much these jobs have been changed, enhanced and broadened for healthcare assistants, porters, lab staff and central sterilising supplies department, CSSD, operatives.

These people waited seven years to even have a job evaluation take place because of FEMPI. They worked through the hardest of times in our health service and, God knows, it has worsened rather than improved. Finally, under the terms of this agreement, the process took place and was completed on 4 October. Under the terms of the agreement, the awards made under this process should be made within six weeks, and that is noted in the job evaluation document itself. Yet, for these healthcare assistants, porters and lab staff, nothing has happened. Worse than that, the Department refused to sit down with their union, SIPTU, and refused to engage with the union prior to the Estimates for the health service being completed for this year. Right now, not only is the Department in breach of the PSSA, but it has not allocated moneys to fulfil this agreement in the budget for this year.

We are talking about the people who keep this health service going from day to day, alongside our courageous nurses, who, quite rightly, have made the decision to take industrial action. What the Government is doing by ignoring the PSSA is forcing another union, SIPTU, to take industrial action, and that is just what will happen. I cannot believe the neck of the Minister, Deputy Harris, to quote the PSSA while being blatantly in breach of the same agreement. I am hoping the Minister of State will confirm that the Government will honour the terms of this agreement and pay the moneys due, which are pay rises of between 5% and 7% for these workers. No other answer will be appropriate.

Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Senator for the opportunity to address this matter. As part of the talks which took place under the Lansdowne Road agreement, a chairman’s note was agreed by all parties on the reintroduction of a job evaluation scheme in the health sector. This scheme had previously been in place but was discontinued in 2008. SIPTU sought the introduction of the job evaluation scheme for the support grades along the same principles that operated in 2008. The support staff grades are categorised into four pay bands, which have different pay scales attached.SIPTU held the view that the roles of support staff grades needed to be evaluated as, in some cases, due to the type of work they carry out, the grades may warrant placing in a higher band category. This scheme examines a grade rather than an individual post in isolation. If, for example, the work of a porter is found to be more appropriate to a higher band, then all porters will fall within the new band. The scheme allows for posts to be evaluated in a cross-section of approximately 25 locations, including acute hospitals, services for older people, intellectual disability as well as other specialised areas.

The chairman’s note provided that all parties would agree on the scope and conduct of the scheme. On this basis, discussions commenced in 2016 between the HSE and the relevant unions - SIPTU and IMPACT, now FORSA - regarding the re-establishment of the schemes. Successful engagement with FORSA led to the approval of a job evaluation scheme for the clerical and administrative grades in August 2016. However, as agreement on a scheme for the support staff grades could not be reached, the issue was referred to the Lansdowne agreement oversight body in early 2017.

The chair of the body issued a recommendation stating that the parties should proceed with the scheme as planned but that the question of its implementation would be considered at the conclusion of the exercise. The Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, agreement provided that the scheme was to be carried out in four phases. Phases 1 and 2 included support staff in the laboratories and the theatres. Also included, were the larger categories of support staff grades, the healthcare assistants and the multi-task attendants.

In October 2018, a report was produced setting out the results of phases 1 and 2 of the exercise. The report recommended that a significant proportion of those grades evaluated should move to a higher pay band.

While the WRC agreement states that any payments arising as a result of the exercise would apply no earlier than the completion of phases 1 and 2 of the exercise, there is no agreement at this stage to the implementation of the result of the exercise. This is a matter that falls to be discussed and agreed with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform within the context of wider budgetary considerations.

Paul Gavan (Sinn Fein)
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Is it any wonder people are cynical about politics? Furthermore, is it any wonder that the nurses have taken the justified decision to go on strike when even if one complies with this agreement, goes through the processes and waits seven years for the job evaluation to take place, we have a Department that turns around and says that one is owed that money but that it is not going to implement this, that it will have to have further talks about it, even though there is a note regarding the job evaluation form which states that within six weeks those moneys should be paid? The refusal of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform to even sit down with SIPTU, which it was requested to do before the Estimates were settled, shows the completely cynical attitude towards the employees in the HSE. Is it any wonder there is industrial relations chaos in our health service when we have a Department and a Government that are so cynical regarding the people who keep our health service going?

Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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I would like to make it clear that I fully recognise the valuable and fundamental role many of the support staff grades make to the efficient delivery of many of our healthcare services. I am aware that in December 2018 SIPTU announced that it will ballot more than 7,000 support staff members working in hospitals and for healthcare providers. In my view, this ballot is premature. SIPTU is claiming that the Government has breached the terms of public service pay agreement but this is not the case. As I already outlined, management agreed to the terms of the scheme in 2017, but the question of its implementation was always intended to be subject to further discussion with my colleagues in the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform.